Ontarians are bleeping idiots

[The Unknown Poster]

 

 

I'd be happy if my union stayed out of politics and simply worked in the best interests of the membership. 

I couldn't agree more with this. It drives me nuts when I get NDP propaganda from our union.

 

Leadership will argue that making sure the NDP is in power *is* in the best interests of the members but its irresponsible use of their "power".  its not like the old days where workers needed unions just to preserve their personal safety.  They need to evolve.  Regardless of whos in power, we can count on our 2% increase. 

[sweep the leg]

 

 

 

I'd be happy if my union stayed out of politics and simply worked in the best interests of the membership. 

I couldn't agree more with this. It drives me nuts when I get NDP propaganda from our union.

 

Leadership will argue that making sure the NDP is in power *is* in the best interests of the members but its irresponsible use of their "power".  its not like the old days where workers needed unions just to preserve their personal safety.  They need to evolve.  Regardless of whos in power, we can count on our 2% increase. 

 

Not in PSAC you can't. As I said, we've gone without a raise for several years now. They're using the recession from six years ago as the reason.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

 

 

 

I'd be happy if my union stayed out of politics and simply worked in the best interests of the membership. 

I couldn't agree more with this. It drives me nuts when I get NDP propaganda from our union.

 

Leadership will argue that making sure the NDP is in power *is* in the best interests of the members but its irresponsible use of their "power".  its not like the old days where workers needed unions just to preserve their personal safety.  They need to evolve.  Regardless of whos in power, we can count on our 2% increase. 

 

Not in PSAC you can't. As I said, we've gone without a raise for several years now. They're using the recession from six years ago as the reason.

 

How long is your contract?

 

Our deals came up for expiry in 2010.  The management union negotiated first in spring 2010 and were hit with the "recession" excuse.  it was a tense negotiation and they didn't get a raise at all (or might have been 1% in the 3rd year of a three year deal and I think they got a $500 signing bonus).  Our union negotiated end of 2010 and while the recession was used as an excuse in offering us a terrible deal (shorter breaks, creation of split shifts, no raises etc), we held firm and got a status quo plus 1%, 1%, 2% (I think) raises.  The belief was, we took lesser raises then and would ask for more "next time".  Next time is now and everyone pretty much agreed to 2%,2%, 1.75%. 

 

With public sector unions Im sure they look at their costs versus private sector so if on average you're job is higher paid or higher benefitted because its government, I could see their point that they are restraining your increases to get in line with the private sector.  But I also believe everyone should get cost of living increases.  It would also help if bracket creep were eliminated.

 

In general terms, the NDP might make it easier for Unions to conduct their business but look at taxes under the NDP.  If the PC's win the next election, I have little fear my union will still negotiated a similar deal next time but maybe my taxes will go up less... a win/win for me.  Maybe it makes it harder for my union leadership to rope some small business into unionizing but I dont really care about that.

[sweep the leg]

 

How long is your contract?

 

 

Our deals came up for expiry in 2010.  The management union negotiated first in spring 2010 and were hit with the "recession" excuse.  it was a tense negotiation and they didn't get a raise at all (or might have been 1% in the 3rd year of a three year deal and I think they got a $500 signing bonus).  Our union negotiated end of 2010 and while the recession was used as an excuse in offering us a terrible deal (shorter breaks, creation of split shifts, no raises etc), we held firm and got a status quo plus 1%, 1%, 2% (I think) raises.  The belief was, we took lesser raises then and would ask for more "next time".  Next time is now and everyone pretty much agreed to 2%,2%, 1.75%. 

 

With public sector unions Im sure they look at their costs versus private sector so if on average you're job is higher paid or higher benefitted because its government, I could see their point that they are restraining your increases to get in line with the private sector.  But I also believe everyone should get cost of living increases.  It would also help if bracket creep were eliminated.

 

In general terms, the NDP might make it easier for Unions to conduct their business but look at taxes under the NDP.  If the PC's win the next election, I have little fear my union will still negotiated a similar deal next time but maybe my taxes will go up less... a win/win for me.  Maybe it makes it harder for my union leadership to rope some small business into unionizing but I dont really care about that.

 

Our contract expired two years ago. I think our union is dragging it out, hoping the Conservatives lose the next election. It's a pretty tough negotiation when your management (ie government) publicly call its workforce overpaid & lazy, & runs on a platform of laying off as many of you as they can.

 

We won't strike b/c it's virtually pointless for us to do so. Nobody will feel sorry for us, plus they can force us back to work whenever they want.

[The Unknown Poster]

Thats really unfortunate. Look at it this way, you're poised to get a nice retro paycheque.

 

I remember the federal corrections went without a contract for something like two years and they had been vastly under-paid compared to provincial counterparts.  I heard stories of CO's retiring when they got their retro paycheque.

[Mark H.]

Retro pay cheques are largely lost to income tax. I speak from experience as a bargaining chair.  

 

We had a contract that expired in June 2010. It was September 2011 till we finally settled. The net benefit to members from back pay was negligible.

[iso_55]

 

Talk about public unions, the BC Teachers Federation is on strike again. They are always on strike. That is one union that needs to have legislation so they can't strike because they abuse the collective bargaining process everytime & walk. 

 

That's not really true. They've been without a contract for over a year while the BC government has been yanking them around. The BC supreme court even ruled that the government's negotiation tactics were unconstitutional.

 

No other union I know has ever been on more strikes than the BCTF. 

[Zontar]

All you guys & your rants against unions, specifically government unions. I'm with the Feds & I haven't had a raise in years. The government re-opened our collective agreement & changed the terms in the middle of contract.

 

I'll never argue that we don't have good pensions, but it's not exactly like we're all living the high life on our current salaries. In all of Winnipeg you could probably count the number of employees making over $100k with just your fingers & a couple of toes. An accounting designation is required for my job & I have nine years of experience, yet I make quite a bit less than that. There are people in my office who have worked most of their life in government and are making >60k, and that's with university degrees.

My rant was towards ON public sector unions. Police, teachers, hydro.

 

Province has been told for years their books are a mess but they cave to union threats every time. Private sector walloped by 2008 recession yet the above mentioned row gently down the stream as if nothing happened with regular raises..

 

Its so ironic socialists have said for so long the private wealthy are out of touch and have to feel the pain like everyone else. Tories and others sent that message back at them and the unions went berserk so much so they actually abdoned thier traditional NDP base to back the Liberals.

[17to85]

 socialists 

are the most out of touch people on the planet. They really don't seem to know anything other than it's not fair that some people have more than they do so **** those people. 

[blueandgoldguy]

 

my Facebook status for the next 24 hours... we'll see how many "friends" vanish off my list...

 

 

 

they lied to you... then they lied about lying to you... they stole BILLIONS from you and then they stole BILLIONS more and they gave it to their friends... they mortgaged your children and grandchildren's futures with mounting debt and a cripplingly expensive government that we simply can't afford and they accuse you of being heartless when you suggest we find ways to save money... they were elected time and again by fatcat unions and special interests who now again are owed favours in the form of raises and benefits that private sector workers can't even dream of... you have access to the same information we all have and were gifted by nature with the wits to process that information and act responsibly based on it... AND YOU STILL VOTED FOR THEM AGAIN... i'm done pretending to respect your opinion. you're either just too blinded by your ideology to allow for critical thinking to overule your biases or too damn stupid to be allowed to vote.

 

IF this is how you feel, why did you say Steven Harper is the only choice for the next federal election?  He lied to us as well (accountability and appointing Conservatives to the Senate) and many would consider the conservatives have stolen from the taxpayer as well.

 

It was well-known before the election that Hudak was going to lose and lose handily.  Ran a terrible campaign.  Yes, let's publicly state that we will cut 100,000 civil servant jobs with no plans on retraining these laid off workers for new jobs - that will get them to vote for us!    

 

Liberals did a great job of changing the public's (or at least a good portion of the public's) perception of the party.  Wynne is still a relatively new leader of the Libs and thus is not viewed as mixed up in the scandals of the previous regime.  They campaigned on change even though it is the same party and they won handily - brilliant!

[blueandgoldguy]

 

The best of a shitty lot got re-elected.  

 

I have to agree with JBR. The PC's tried to run with an NDP lite campaign last election - it failed miserably.  I for one will not be surprised if the NDP wins the next MB. election as well.

 

Pallister is also the wrong guy to win them votes in Winnipeg, where they need to win votes, but they don't have a lot of options.

 

Yes, I'm beginning to think the NDP has a reasonably good chance at winning the next provincial election.  Pallister and co. can only beat that %8 PST horse for so long.  They haven't really haven't communicated an effective strategy as to how to improve the Manitoba's fortunes.  Their vision must include more than simple cutbacks.

[Zontar]

 

 socialists 

are the most out of touch people on the planet. They really don't seem to know anything other than it's not fair that some people have more than they do so **** those people. 

 

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money"

 

Baroness Thatcher.

[Logan007]

[Mark H.]

 

 

 socialists 

are the most out of touch people on the planet. They really don't seem to know anything other than it's not fair that some people have more than they do so **** those people. 

 

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money"

 

Baroness Thatcher.

 

 

Disagree.  No one gets rich without other people working for them.  Who's benefiting more: an employee at Microsoft or Bill Gates?

[iso_55]

 

 

 

 socialists 

are the most out of touch people on the planet. They really don't seem to know anything other than it's not fair that some people have more than they do so **** those people. 

 

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money"

 

Baroness Thatcher.

 

 

Disagree.  No one gets rich without other people working for them.  Who's benefiting more: an employee at Microsoft or Bill Gates?

 

AND... who took the risk?

[Mark H.]

 

 

 

 

 socialists 

are the most out of touch people on the planet. They really don't seem to know anything other than it's not fair that some people have more than they do so **** those people. 

 

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money"

 

Baroness Thatcher.

 

 

Disagree.  No one gets rich without other people working for them.  Who's benefiting more: an employee at Microsoft or Bill Gates?

 

AND... who took the risk?

 

 

True.  There are always a variety perspectives.  But I find that mostly the same one is presented on here.  Just thought I'd bring in a different one.

 

If you look back to the industrial revolution...those business men took risks too.  Did that give them the right to shamelessly exploit workers?  To exploit children in coal mines and factories?  To amass ridiculous fortunes until World War One brought income tax?

 

All of that was their right, and no one questioned it.  Today, both sides should be questioned, business and union.

[rebusrankin]

Should unions make donations to political parties? Should they advertise (see MTS, MPI)?

[road griller]

 

 

 socialists 

are the most out of touch people on the planet. They really don't seem to know anything other than it's not fair that some people have more than they do so **** those people. 

 

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money"

 

Baroness Thatcher.

 

 

 

 

 socialists 

are the most out of touch people on the planet. They really don't seem to know anything other than it's not fair that some people have more than they do so **** those people. 

 

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money"

 

Baroness Thatcher.

 

And the Wall Street bailouts?  Capitalism took a huge kick in the groin, showing its flaws as well.

 

Funny how fast the hands come out when the glove is on the other foot. 

[Mark H.]

Should unions make donations to political parties? Should they advertise (see MTS, MPI)?

 

Absolutely not.  I have been vocal about that exact issue.  

 

"Oh but, we're non-partisan."

 

Right...

[rebusrankin]

 

Should unions make donations to political parties? Should they advertise (see MTS, MPI)?

 

Absolutely not.  I have been local about that exact issue.  

 

"Oh but, we're non-partisan."

 

Right...

 

On this we agree.

 

My union does many good things. Wages are good, excellent pension plan, good medical benefits etc but these two things I really dislike.

[The Unknown Poster]

Unions haven't evolved. At least not mine. I had the mis pleasure of being in a meeting between the union and the company. It was literally like elementary school. Insults. Sarcasm. Super childish. I couldn't believe it.

My union leader recently went nuts when it was suggested they communicate via email. Living in the past.

[Mark H.]

Unions haven't evolved. At least not mine. I had the mis pleasure of being in a meeting between the union and the company. It was literally like elementary school. Insults. Sarcasm. Super childish. I couldn't believe it.

My union leader recently went nuts when it was suggested they communicate via email. Living in the past.

 

Wow.  I find that it's 'the other side' that doesn't want to use e-mail, because it leaves a record of whatever they communicate.  An effective union should be using e-mail whenever and wherever possible.

[17to85]

And the Wall Street bailouts?  Capitalism took a huge kick in the groin, showing its flaws as well.

 

 

 

Funny how fast the hands come out when the glove is on the other foot. 

 

you'd be hard pressed to call that capitalism though. More like government supported monopolies. 

[iso_55]

Should unions make donations to political parties? Should they advertise (see MTS, MPI)?

Unions want the money but they don't want to be partners to share in the risk if business goes bad. And they'll always support politicians & governments sympathetic to their cause. 

[kelownabomberfan]

That's not really true. They've been without a contract for over a year while the BC government has been yanking them around. The BC supreme court even ruled that the government's negotiation tactics were unconstitutional.

You have to understand the context though. The judge didn't rule that the government's negotiation tactics were unconstitutional, they ruled that the government stripping out of the clause that the BCTF gets to negotiate class size and composition was unconstitutional.

I am not going to say the BC government is perfect here or totally in the right, but the BCTF never should have been given the right to bargain class size and composition. It's not the union's right to determine their work environment, that's the employer's right. The BCTF were given this gift by a bought and paid for pro-union NDP government in a closed-door meeting back in the late 1990's. It's morally reprehensible that this happened. And so the BC Liberals, when they took over in a landslide, just said that they refused to honour such a terrible piece of garbage legislation. If the NDP had allowed teachers the right to beat kids with tire irons, and the Liberals said "no" we are not allowing this anymore, a judge could still say that it is "unconstitutional" to strip out this right from agreements, but it doesn't mean that the public isn't in full support of taking away that right, and that it is morally improper that they had it in the first place.

The BC government can't just reverse this putrid legislation as it was theoretically "bargained for", even though it was actually handed over on a silver platter in fact. And so they just refuse to honour it, and the BCTF keeps running off to judges who they know will rule in their favour. You can't totally say that the BCTF has been "yanked around", their salary demands, which everyone knows is the real issue, even though the BCTF keeps saying their strike is "for the kids", are completely insane and over the top, and way in excess of what other unions have asked for and received. If the teachers would move a bit on their salary demands, there might be room to move on class size and composition. I don't see anything happening until the fall, and this school year essentially just ending early, as all of my nieces and nephews have cleaned out their desks already and have been told by their teachers to enjoy the summer.

The teachers here aren't even getting much support from their local fellow unionists. One CUPE guy, who of course had to remain anonymous, had this to say:

A fellow CEA 'P' told Castanet that they believe a large portion of the union does not support the current strike action.

“We are sick to death of hearing the teachers moan and groan about how hard done by they are !!” said P. “In my estimation, about 80 per cent of us CUPE members do not support the teachers at all. We're fed up with their whining and crap. Great wages, benefits, pensions. If you don't like it, shut up and leave.”