CBA / Non-import discussion

[Rids]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I thought Tillman had pretty much scouted Laurent on his own - no one seemed to have heard of him before the Supplemental...?

 

 

The Laurent situation is a very unique one. Bruce Feldman (who was at ESPN at the time) came across a Duane Forde article ranking the top defensive linemen available in the CFL draft. He contacted me asking if those 10 guys were all better than Ted Laurent or at least why there was no mention of Ted. Bruce had written the fantastic book "Meat Market" and got to know that recruiting class very well at Ole Miss and Ted was part of that class. 

 

After a couple of emails it was confirmed that Ted would qualify for the draft but it was beyond the date to get onto the official draft list so he ended up in the supplemental draft in one of the largest supplementals in a long time. 

 

These kids that move with family members to the States during their teens are nearly impossible to keep track of especially when they move before high school. The high school kids are a little easier if they've made a name for themselves a bit. 

 

 

Hypothetically, what would happen if they found out a guy who had played in the NFL for a couple years (let's say he's 27 or 28) was actually eligible to be a NI. An established player.

 

Would he suddenly be declared eligible for the next draft?

 

 

To put a real name in here let's say that Orlando Franklin decided that he wanted to play in the CFL after his time with the Broncos was over. My understanding of it as that he could apply for NI status (and would get it in a heartbeat as he's more than eligible even before the rule changes) and would enter as a free agent. 

 

Likely he's already on a neg list somewhere and in his case he'd probably only want to play for Toronto.

 

Worst case scenario he would go through the waiver process so the 9th place team of the year before would have first negotiating rights. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I thought Tillman had pretty much scouted Laurent on his own - no one seemed to have heard of him before the Supplemental...?

 

 

The Laurent situation is a very unique one. Bruce Feldman (who was at ESPN at the time) came across a Duane Forde article ranking the top defensive linemen available in the CFL draft. He contacted me asking if those 10 guys were all better than Ted Laurent or at least why there was no mention of Ted. Bruce had written the fantastic book "Meat Market" and got to know that recruiting class very well at Ole Miss and Ted was part of that class. 

 

After a couple of emails it was confirmed that Ted would qualify for the draft but it was beyond the date to get onto the official draft list so he ended up in the supplemental draft in one of the largest supplementals in a long time. 

 

These kids that move with family members to the States during their teens are nearly impossible to keep track of especially when they move before high school. The high school kids are a little easier if they've made a name for themselves a bit. 

 

 

Hypothetically, what would happen if they found out a guy who had played in the NFL for a couple years (let's say he's 27 or 28) was actually eligible to be a NI. An established player.

 

Would he suddenly be declared eligible for the next draft?

 

 

To put a real name in here let's say that Orlando Franklin decided that he wanted to play in the CFL after his time with the Broncos was over. My understanding of it as that he could apply for NI status (and would get it in a heartbeat as he's more than eligible even before the rule changes) and would enter as a free agent. 

 

Likely he's already on a neg list somewhere and in his case he'd probably only want to play for Toronto.

 

Worst case scenario he would go through the waiver process so the 9th place team of the year before would have first negotiating rights. 

 

 

Pretty sure any player in that situation would go through a supplemental draft, and they'd go to the highest bidder with waiver priority, or be eligible in the next CFL Draft depending on when their NI status is approved.  NI players have to go through a draft, they are only free agents if they are undrafted.  I don't think a non-import player can be a free agent without being eligible for a draft.

[Rids]

Well in the situation of an experienced player beyond the age of 25 he wouldn't fit into the structure of a normal draft. 

 

We may learn exactly what steps are going to be used thanks to this new CBA that has new non-import requirements. This opens the door for players like Doc Cassama, Laval's kicker Bede and basically the entire Simon Fraser roster to qualify as non-imports regardless of location of birth. 

 

Laval's former kicker will be older than the 25 year old age limit. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

Is there any source on the 25 year old age limit?

 

My understanding is that players with NI status are automatically eligible for the draft following their 25th birthday if they haven't already been eligible for a CFL Draft, but I don't see anything that would limit someone from petitioning for NI status past 25 and being entered into a regular or supplemental draft, but it's never happened.

[Rids]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I thought Tillman had pretty much scouted Laurent on his own - no one seemed to have heard of him before the Supplemental...?

 

 

The Laurent situation is a very unique one. Bruce Feldman (who was at ESPN at the time) came across a Duane Forde article ranking the top defensive linemen available in the CFL draft. He contacted me asking if those 10 guys were all better than Ted Laurent or at least why there was no mention of Ted. Bruce had written the fantastic book "Meat Market" and got to know that recruiting class very well at Ole Miss and Ted was part of that class. 

 

After a couple of emails it was confirmed that Ted would qualify for the draft but it was beyond the date to get onto the official draft list so he ended up in the supplemental draft in one of the largest supplementals in a long time. 

 

These kids that move with family members to the States during their teens are nearly impossible to keep track of especially when they move before high school. The high school kids are a little easier if they've made a name for themselves a bit. 

 

 

Hypothetically, what would happen if they found out a guy who had played in the NFL for a couple years (let's say he's 27 or 28) was actually eligible to be a NI. An established player.

 

Would he suddenly be declared eligible for the next draft?

 

 

To put a real name in here let's say that Orlando Franklin decided that he wanted to play in the CFL after his time with the Broncos was over. My understanding of it as that he could apply for NI status (and would get it in a heartbeat as he's more than eligible even before the rule changes) and would enter as a free agent. 

 

Likely he's already on a neg list somewhere and in his case he'd probably only want to play for Toronto.

 

Worst case scenario he would go through the waiver process so the 9th place team of the year before would have first negotiating rights. 

 

 

Pretty sure any player in that situation would go through a supplemental draft, and they'd go to the highest bidder with waiver priority, or be eligible in the next CFL Draft depending on when their NI status is approved.  NI players have to go through a draft, they are only free agents if they are undrafted.  I don't think a non-import player can be a free agent without being eligible for a draft.

 

 

Actually every junior player that ages out is exactly like this. They are never eligible for a CFL draft or supplemental draft and are simply free agents. The CFL still has an opening for players to go directly from high school to the pro level and the territorial rights have graduated to cover the junior teams.

 

Same with every Canadian that goes to a Junior College in the States if they return to Canada and don't enroll in a 4 year institution are free agents as well. There are a few of those every year. 

 

Keep this in mind:

 

The CFL is seriously lacking in the area of case study over non-import status and what to do with players that don't fit the strict confines of the rules. 

 

A clear example of that was two years ago at the Quebec Regional where they invited a player from Holland College in PEI but there was confusion surrounding his status for the draft. Holland is a school that doesn't qualify at the Canadian University level so technically it's at the same level as the CJFL but the CFL had never discussed how to handle a university club level football team and what happens then. 

 

The entire club league in the Maritimes is up in the air as it's not governed by territorial rights but some of the schools are four year degree offering schools but they don't play a schedule completely against four year degree offering schools. Likely it will take a high quality player coming out of that league for them to address it. I'd like to see them handle it sooner though. 

[Rids]

Is there any source on the 25 year old age limit?

 

My understanding is that players with NI status are automatically eligible for the draft following their 25th birthday if they haven't already been eligible for a CFL Draft, but I don't see anything that would limit someone from petitioning for NI status past 25 and being entered into a regular or supplemental draft, but it's never happened.

 

The 25 year old age limit is in the CBA. It's to cover players that extend their timeline especially those that go on church missions. 

[Mike]

Split this, just because I think it's an intriguing discussion but I didn't want to sidetrack a different thread.

[Mike]

Rids, what's the deal with Boris Bede?

 

I swear he was with Montreal for a while last year. He's not anymore. Was he ever or am I just imagining things?

 

And as of right now, is he a non-import?

[Mike]

Also ... since you mentioned him before, what about Doc Cassama? I know he applied and was denied NI status. Is it possible he could reapply and new rules in the CBA could allow him eligibility?

[Rids]

Boris Bede may have been in Montreal's camp but would've been there as an import. He was born in France, spent 1 year at an NCAA school before moving to Laval. 

 

Doc Cassama would qualify for non-import status based on what I saw of the new CBA proposals of course there's a question as to how they'll handle it. Do they allow re-applying or do they grandfather it and use the rule from your draft year? 

 

Very cool on the topic split, great way to get topics back on topic. 

 

Sorry for the derailing of the Ty Pencer talk. 

[Mike]

Boris Bede may have been in Montreal's camp but would've been there as an import. He was born in France, spent 1 year at an NCAA school before moving to Laval. 

 

Doc Cassama would qualify for non-import status based on what I saw of the new CBA proposals of course there's a question as to how they'll handle it. Do they allow re-applying or do they grandfather it and use the rule from your draft year? 

 

Very cool on the topic split, great way to get topics back on topic. 

 

Sorry for the derailing of the Ty Pencer talk. 

 

You would think that hypothetically, given the opportunity to increase a NI talent pool that was stretched a bit thin with another team added to the mix, the CFL would take the opportunity to grant a guy like Cassama NI status if he qualified.

 

Can you share any of the details from what you saw in the CBA? Curious to hear how they may determine NI status now compared to how they did before.

[Rids]

If the version I saw was the final then imports that establish Canadian residency (fancy way to say go to a Canadian school) for 4 years will be granted non-import status and enter the draft. 

 

Basically the American half of the Simon Fraser University roster will be able to play as a non-import along with the handful of Americans/internationals that attend CIS schools. Ups the draft class by about 25 to 30 guys a year I'd guess. 

 

Doc Cassama was rejected because his initial training was American football. Now if they started a Canadian football league in Sweden then those guys might earn non-import status too... (total gongshow)

[Floyd]

Great explanation, Rids.  Nice thread.

 

And I still want to see Doc Cassama in Blue and Gold one day.

[bearpants]

Rids or Mike, can you provide a little more info on Doc Cassama? I've heard the name but that's about as much as I know....

 

Also, you mentioned anyone playing for SFU could technically be a non-import.... does SFU playing in the NCAA make a difference at all or just the fact that they're located in Canada is the only factor?

[Rids]

Here's a good link on Cassama - http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/04/18/university-of-calgary-star-doctor-cassama-impresses-nfl-scouts-with-workout

 

And a video - 

 

The details are still a little hazy about how they are going to work these new non-import rules or even if they were in the final version of the CBA. What I saw used the phrase "Takes up residence" rather than attends Canadian school. I'm not sure if that's to include any Americans that up come to play in the CJFL or OFC as well as those players that attend CIS schools and Simon Fraser. Lots of questions still. 

[bearpants]

Thanks, still clear as mud but about as thorough as I could ask for right now!

[JuranBoldenRules]

 

Actually every junior player that ages out is exactly like this. They are never eligible for a CFL draft or supplemental draft and are simply free agents. The CFL still has an opening for players to go directly from high school to the pro level and the territorial rights have graduated to cover the junior teams.

 

Same with every Canadian that goes to a Junior College in the States if they return to Canada and don't enroll in a 4 year institution are free agents as well. There are a few of those every year. 

 

 

True, but the example was Orlando Franklin, a player who would be draft eligible if he held NI status.  If he petitioned for NI status and was confirmed as a NI, I don't see how he would be a free agent.

 

 

 

The 25 year old age limit is in the CBA. It's to cover players that extend their timeline especially those that go on church missions. 

 

 

The 25 year old issue in the CBA is an automatic entry into the CFL Draft regardless of where players are in their CIS/NCAA career, and it only applies to players who already have NI status.  I don't see how it would apply to a player in the situation of Orlando Franklin, older than 25, without NI status, but would be a NI if he applied.  I'm sure a certain team would try to have Orlando Franklin declared a free agent if he ever decided to play in the CFL, but 8 other teams would pull out the draft/supplemental draft by-laws and call BS on them.

[pigseye]

Only university ballers are eligible for the draft otherwise they are free agents and need to meet the nonimport documentation standard.

[Brandon Blue&Gold]

I admit I'm a little lost with this change to the non import rule.  How about this... would Ben Cahoon be considered a non import with these new rules put in place today?  I believe he was raised in the States but had a Canadian parent?  I'm probably wrong on that.

[gbill2004]

@BobIrvingCJOB: CFL wants us to call Canadian players Nationals and Imports Internationals--I am not opposed to change but good luck with that!!

[Rids]

 

 

Actually every junior player that ages out is exactly like this. They are never eligible for a CFL draft or supplemental draft and are simply free agents. The CFL still has an opening for players to go directly from high school to the pro level and the territorial rights have graduated to cover the junior teams.

 

Same with every Canadian that goes to a Junior College in the States if they return to Canada and don't enroll in a 4 year institution are free agents as well. There are a few of those every year. 

 

 

True, but the example was Orlando Franklin, a player who would be draft eligible if he held NI status.  If he petitioned for NI status and was confirmed as a NI, I don't see how he would be a free agent.

 

 

 

The 25 year old age limit is in the CBA. It's to cover players that extend their timeline especially those that go on church missions. 

 

 

The 25 year old issue in the CBA is an automatic entry into the CFL Draft regardless of where players are in their CIS/NCAA career, and it only applies to players who already have NI status.  I don't see how it would apply to a player in the situation of Orlando Franklin, older than 25, without NI status, but would be a NI if he applied.  I'm sure a certain team would try to have Orlando Franklin declared a free agent if he ever decided to play in the CFL, but 8 other teams would pull out the draft/supplemental draft by-laws and call BS on them.

 

 

Well I don't think the CFL would have any answers for this situation and whatever they did decide would be the pattern to follow moving forward. So for Orlando Franklin it's 100% up in the air as to what they would do and almost as sure of a thing that it'll never need to be discussed at a CFL level. 

 

It's unlikely to happen more than once in a generation unless the CFL average salary magically reaches what a NFL 3 year vet earns. 

[Noeller]

I admit I'm a little lost with this change to the non import rule. How about this... would Ben Cahoon be considered a non import with these new rules put in place today? I believe he was raised in the States but had a Canadian parent? I'm probably wrong on that.

you are wrong. He actually lived in Canada for awhile as a kid.

[Jacquie]

From an article by Herb Zurkowsky of the Gazette:

While the results of the ratification vote haven’t been released, it’s believed only Saskatchewan voted against approval as a team.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/achieves+labour+peace+some+rankled/9937856/story.html

[JuranBoldenRules]

Americans who attend CIS and Americans at SFU won't be able to qualify as non-imports unless they spend 5 years in Canada prior to 18 years of age.

 

People on student visas aren't permanent residents, and it's a whole process to become a permanent resident too.  You need to be a permanent resident for 3 years minimum to apply to become a Canadian citizen, then more process.

 

 

I admit I'm a little lost with this change to the non import rule.  How about this... would Ben Cahoon be considered a non import with these new rules put in place today?  I believe he was raised in the States but had a Canadian parent?  I'm probably wrong on that.

 

He spent years in Alberta as a kid.  He'd still qualify as a non-import or "national" if he was coming into the league today, have to live in Canada for a minimum of 5 years prior to 18 years of age now to qualify.

 

Basically the new rules are squeezing out guys who used to qualify as non-imports because they didn't play high school or university in the US, nor live in the US.  The Australian kickers especially.  A guy like Cassama isn't helped by these changes in terms of getting NI or "national" status.

[Duchkal2]

Question: If a player has lived in Canada and played in Canada full time as an import. Say he decides to become a Canadian citizen, would his status change to a Non-import or I guess now it's called a National player?