Can we "Worman" Gary Ethchevery?

[iso_55]

 

 

 i am cautiously optomistic:}

I remember former Blue Bomber head coach Joe Zaleski using a very similar phrase in his time as the Bomber on field boss from 1967 thru the 1969 season. At various times, during all 3 training camps & pre seasons he was in charge, the local media asked Joe how he felt the team was doing. He'd always cheerily answer, "We're optimistic!!" He won something like 12 football games as head coach in 3 seasons. I remember this because as a young fan of 13 & 14, even I knew it was a bullshit answer & was sick of hearing that phrase so much that it always stuck with me. Even after 45 years plus!! Zaleski is one of my top 3 Worst Blue Bombers Head Coaches Of All Time. The other 2? Jeff Reinbold & Tim Burke. Not necessarily in that order.

 

I pretty much agree with your Top 3 Al. Other gridiron grapes were Daryl Rogers, Jim Daley and the last portions of Cal Murphy's reign where he started to lose it. Plop was no great shakes but the type of personnel he was supplied with explains a lot.

 

Yeah Nate, I agree about Rogers but I think he got the team to the playoffs at least so at least he accomplished that. However, Rogers really was clueless about Canadian Football. The more I think about it, the more I think Zaleski was just so inept. Yeah, he took over a team that was riddled with retirements from the Bud Grant era but he wasn't head coach material & not much of a leader compared to say MOS. I don't think many of his players went to the wall for him.

[Brandon]

Remember last year when a few people said ....  we were only running our vanilla offense and defense after the 52-0 pre season shellacking.....

 

I'm concerned that's for sure!  

[iso_55]

Our offense is miles ahead of last year. Even with a stinko offensive line. I like what Goosen brings to the table. He'll be a good one. Trouble is, there's not more young guys like him. Who was the RT who got pwned when we needed a first down & Marve got sacked? What a freaking pylon. That's the kind of garbage blocking that needs to stop. Maybe we need to look at trading for a legitimate starting tackle even if it means giving up an asset or 2 but our offensive line HAS to get better fast! Right now, I'd give up a future first rounder & a starter to get a great offensive lineman to shore that line up. 

[gbill2004]

Our offense is miles ahead of last year. Even with a stinko offensive line. I like what Goosen brings to the table. He'll be a good one. Trouble is, there's not more young guys like him. Who was the RT who got pwned when we needed a first down & Marve got sacked? What a freaking pylon. That's the kind of garbage blocking that needs to stop. Maybe we need to look at trading for a legitimate starting tackle even if it means giving up an asset or 2 but our offensive line HAS to get better fast! Right now, I'd give up a future first rounder & a starter to get a great offensive lineman to shore that line up.

That was Cordaro Howard. He was playing well until that play...not sure what he was thinking on that one, just let the defender walk around him without much effort.

[B-F-F-C]

lets keep the conversation focused on the defence for now. Quite frankly I'm very happy with the offence and where they're at after 2 pre season games.   What concerned me the most was our run defence in the first half when we were playing starters against starters.  The Stamps run the ball down the gut with ease and we didn't appear to get a hand on the runner until he got thru to the secondary.   I didn't once see the front 4 get any type of pressure on their own.  

 

So I'll wait and I hope I'm wrong, god I hope I'm wrong. But I wasn't happy with the hiring of Etchevery in the first place and so far I've seen nothing to disprove my opinion.  

[gbill2004]

lets keep the conversation focused on the defence for now. Quite frankly I'm very happy with the offence and where they're at after 2 pre season games. What concerned me the most was our run defence in the first half when we were playing starters against starters. The Stamps run the ball down the gut with ease and we didn't appear to get a hand on the runner until he got thru to the secondary. I didn't once see the front 4 get any type of pressure on their own.

So I'll wait and I hope I'm wrong, god I hope I'm wrong. But I wasn't happy with the hiring of Etchevery in the first place and so far I've seen nothing to disprove my opinion.

The Bombers were playing plenty of backups in the first half. Fraser, Tate and Moseley all got lots of time on the d-line.

I also noticed that we rarely sent more than 4 men after the QB and when we did, we got good pressure. Stamps were throwing a minimum of 5 guys at the QB on most plays.

My primary concerns after the game are the run defense, and special teams return coverage. Loss of Newman really hurts the ratio too.

[ALuCsRED]

 

How can you say anything about where this team ranks compared to years past without one meaningful game being played? I get your concerns but come on.

 

Just comparing Bomber's peformance compared to all the other meaningless games for other teams.  Sask and Ottawa both looked more prepared than we do.

 

But, yeah, this team reminds me of 2010...  the guys love the coach and respect him but its just not there.

 

 

 

Sask and Ottawa were more prepared.  They had 5 more days of practice and one less game prior to this one.  

 

People, we have to remember that we have a new coach, new DC, new MLBs and a new defensive system.  Wild, Kuale, Newman, etc. need to get used to the DL and where the gaps will be for them to fill on running plays.

[DR. CFL]

Historically Etch has used undersized personal in his defense sand had difficulty stopping the run. He may have been the innovator of the SAM as a DB/LB. His mistake in Sask with that was moving Vincent Donaldson, a true corner who was shy about tackling into that spot. Teams exploited that and ran up and down all over them. It is early but a fear of it here lingers.

[iso_55]

 

Our offense is miles ahead of last year. Even with a stinko offensive line. I like what Goosen brings to the table. He'll be a good one. Trouble is, there's not more young guys like him. Who was the RT who got pwned when we needed a first down & Marve got sacked? What a freaking pylon. That's the kind of garbage blocking that needs to stop. Maybe we need to look at trading for a legitimate starting tackle even if it means giving up an asset or 2 but our offensive line HAS to get better fast! Right now, I'd give up a future first rounder & a starter to get a great offensive lineman to shore that line up.

That was Cordaro Howard. He was playing well until that play...not sure what he was thinking on that one, just let the defender walk around him without much effort.

 

That was a killer. And sorry to  say, when he needed to make his block, didn't. Mental mistakes are killers because they all seem to happen at crucial  times. I'm to the point that I'm tired of seeing garbage plays like that & things need to change. 

[iso_55]

lets keep the conversation focused on the defence for now. Quite frankly I'm very happy with the offence and where they're at after 2 pre season games.   What concerned me the most was our run defence in the first half when we were playing starters against starters.  The Stamps run the ball down the gut with ease and we didn't appear to get a hand on the runner until he got thru to the secondary.   I didn't once see the front 4 get any type of pressure on their own.  

 

So I'll wait and I hope I'm wrong, god I hope I'm wrong. But I wasn't happy with the hiring of Etchevery in the first place and so far I've seen nothing to disprove my opinion.  

Not happy with the hire either but he deserves a chance as DC,  If it's mid season & we're giving up gobs of real  estate on defense rushing then we'll have the right to call for his dismissal if things don't improve. But too early yet.

[iso_55]

 

 

How can you say anything about where this team ranks compared to years past without one meaningful game being played? I get your concerns but come on.

 

Just comparing Bomber's peformance compared to all the other meaningless games for other teams.  Sask and Ottawa both looked more prepared than we do.

 

But, yeah, this team reminds me of 2010...  the guys love the coach and respect him but its just not there.

 

 

 

Sask and Ottawa were more prepared.  They had 5 more days of practice and one less game prior to this one.  

 

People, we have to remember that we have a new coach, new DC, new MLBs and a new defensive system.  Wild, Kuale, Newman, etc. need to get used to the DL and where the gaps will be for them to fill on running plays.

 

The CFL schedule like a lot of things done in the league is ******** stupid.

[James]

I know it's just pre season but our run defence is non existent and overall I just don't see our defence improving once the regular season starts.

I wish, you'll have your usual bomber supporters who will blindly give excuses and support whoever is on staff bash you and say its way to early, but reality is Etchevary's not a good DC. It was simply a bad hire.

With who we have where, I don't see our run game getting any better. I used to think our pass defence would be good, but I'm starting to doubt that to. With Anderson sitting, we only have one, maybe two effective pass rushers on the DLine.

[James]

If I get a chance I will have to go back and watch the entire game, but from what I saw I was completely underwhelmed by the tackling or like thereof.  Couldn't believe the ease with which the running backs ran the ball..right through the interior of the line too.  Seemed the Qb or running back would gain 5 yards minimum before even being touched by a D-Lineman or linebacker.  Also surprised how small our the Bomber d looks out there..well OK, not really this is an Etcheverry defense after all.

I wasn't surprised by this at all. I think it's going to be like this all season long.

[Nasty Nate]

Things I liked:

1. Drew Willy overall
2. Paris 100% Cotton
3. Brent Maher
4. O'Shea's cool on the sideline
5. Bomber solidarity when Newman went down
6. Lack of turnovers

Things I disliked:

1. Sloppy special teams tackling and positioning
2. O-line getting consistently over-powered
3. Receiver drops on routine catches
4. Soft zone pass coverage
5. An erratic def. coordinator supplied with inferior personnel

[Atomic]

I'm willing to give the defence the benefit of the doubt until the regular season begins. The missed tackles are frustrating, though.

Pass defence looked ok, it is going to be tough to keep all our good DBs. I like Randle, Washington, Suber, Sears, Markett, Leggett, B. Johnson... Don't know what we'll do there.

Honestly more worried about the atrocious kick coverage. I don't see how it can be that bad. Rookie ST coordinator Pat Tracey better figure his unit out because I have a feeling O'Shea won't be particularly patient with poor special teams.

[James]

Anybody notice kenny Tate? I sure didn't... I'm just going to assume I was right that he's way out of position and he's getting owned every snap

Also, Mosely really needs to learn how to wrap up properly and not let go, he could be a good one if he could do that. He really seems to be able to get to. His target very effectively.

[gbill2004]

I kinda hope Suber gets released. I like the guy but he's just too short to be an effective DB.

[Nasty Nate]

I kinda hope Suber gets released. I like the guy but he's just too short to be an effective DB.

Suber is probably on the bubble but I'm sure Etcheverry likes "his size". 

Seriously, the guy is a vet even though he's 5'6" and not really a burner.

[Mike]

I know it's just pre season but our run defence is non existent and overall I just don't see our defence improving once the regular season starts.

I wish, you'll have your usual bomber supporters who will blindly give excuses and support whoever is on staff bash you and say its way to early, but reality is Etchevary's not a good DC. It was simply a bad hire.

With who we have where, I don't see our run game getting any better. I used to think our pass defence would be good, but I'm starting to doubt that to. With Anderson sitting, we only have one, maybe two effective pass rushers on the DLine.

It's not blind support. And if it is, then your discontent is blind as well. Maybe he's not a good DC, it's not unlikely by any stretch. But when you're unconventional, preseason isn't going to be where the determination is made

[blitzmore]

lets keep the conversation focused on the defence for now. Quite frankly I'm very happy with the offence and where they're at after 2 pre season games.   What concerned me the most was our run defence in the first half when we were playing starters against starters.  The Stamps run the ball down the gut with ease and we didn't appear to get a hand on the runner until he got thru to the secondary.   I didn't once see the front 4 get any type of pressure on their own.  

 

So I'll wait and I hope I'm wrong, god I hope I'm wrong. But I wasn't happy with the hiring of Etchevery in the first place and so far I've seen nothing to disprove my opinion.  

No let's keep the conversation wherever it goes...

[blitzmore]

Historically Etch has used undersized personal in his defense sand had difficulty stopping the run. He may have been the innovator of the SAM as a DB/LB. His mistake in Sask with that was moving Vincent Donaldson, a true corner who was shy about tackling into that spot. Teams exploited that and ran up and down all over them. It is early but a fear of it here lingers.

So let me get this straight...you're worried that Etch is going to use a true corner who is shy about tackling in the wrong spot?

[James]

I know it's just pre season but our run defence is non existent and overall I just don't see our defence improving once the regular season starts.

I wish, you'll have your usual bomber supporters who will blindly give excuses and support whoever is on staff bash you and say its way to early, but reality is Etchevary's not a good DC. It was simply a bad hire.

With who we have where, I don't see our run game getting any better. I used to think our pass defence would be good, but I'm starting to doubt that to. With Anderson sitting, we only have one, maybe two effective pass rushers on the DLine.

It's not blind support. And if it is, then your discontent is blind as well. Maybe he's not a good DC, it's not unlikely by any stretch. But when you're unconventional, preseason isn't going to be where the determination is made

His body of work in this league is more than large enough for us to form an opinion on his work. Just because it's only pre season doesn't mean we can't know what we're in for this year.

[Harbaugh]

I know it's just pre season but our run defence is non existent and overall I just don't see our defence improving once the regular season starts.

I wish, you'll have your usual bomber supporters who will blindly give excuses and support whoever is on staff bash you and say its way to early, but reality is Etchevary's not a good DC. It was simply a bad hire.

With who we have where, I don't see our run game getting any better. I used to think our pass defence would be good, but I'm starting to doubt that to. With Anderson sitting, we only have one, maybe two effective pass rushers on the DLine.

It's not blind support. And if it is, then your discontent is blind as well. Maybe he's not a good DC, it's not unlikely by any stretch. But when you're unconventional, preseason isn't going to be where the determination is made

His body of work in this league is more than large enough for us to form an opinion on his work. Just because it's only pre season doesn't mean we can't know what we're in for this year.

What was Sask's record during his three year tenure as DC? It did include three winning seasons and two grey cup trips.

If he can get his defence to buy in then it will be enough to put us in a position to win. That's a pretty decent step in the right direction for a franchise at an all time low if you ask me.

[SPuDS]

I know it's just pre season but our run defence is non existent and overall I just don't see our defence improving once the regular season starts.

I wish, you'll have your usual bomber supporters who will blindly give excuses and support whoever is on staff bash you and say its way to early, but reality is Etchevary's not a good DC. It was simply a bad hire.

With who we have where, I don't see our run game getting any better. I used to think our pass defence would be good, but I'm starting to doubt that to. With Anderson sitting, we only have one, maybe two effective pass rushers on the DLine.

Etch has been a successful DC in this league with lots of experience and the reality is that its too early to make these kind of comments to be honest.. give the guy some rope to hang himself before bashing and stringing him up.

[Bomber_fanaddict]

It's pretty clear our D took a step back from previous years. Anyone who saw Etch in previous years expected this to happen here. On the flip side our O appears to have improved over the last few years. Something I'm not sure many would have expected. I said it in another thread that I think our O will get off to a better start then our D for a change. So we lose two preseason games by 2 points and 3 points. Both games were very winnable when it comes down too it. I can probably go through this forum and find two dozen people saying all I want to see is improvement this year over last year. Well over two games there is lots of improvement. Yup there is a lot of improvement to be had but firing a DC this soon will not make us improve before we start our season in 12 days. If we start 0-4 and the D Is the clear cut reason we are losing then I can see panic setting in and a reason to start looking for replacements. But if we are giving up 40 points a game and scoring 41 does it really matter?? All we really want this season is to be competitive and in games right? A post season appearance is out of the picture at this point and would just be icing on the cake if we actually make it there.