Can we "Worman" Gary Ethchevery?

[iso_55]

 

Historically Etch has used undersized personal in his defense sand had difficulty stopping the run. He may have been the innovator of the SAM as a DB/LB. His mistake in Sask with that was moving Vincent Donaldson, a true corner who was shy about tackling into that spot. Teams exploited that and ran up and down all over them. It is early but a fear of it here lingers.

So let me get this straight...you're worried that Etch is going to use a true corner who is shy about tackling in the wrong spot?

 

No, he's saying Etch put the wrong guy at the Sam position. Pretty clear to me what he was saying.

[James]

I know it's just pre season but our run defence is non existent and overall I just don't see our defence improving once the regular season starts.

I wish, you'll have your usual bomber supporters who will blindly give excuses and support whoever is on staff bash you and say its way to early, but reality is Etchevary's not a good DC. It was simply a bad hire.

With who we have where, I don't see our run game getting any better. I used to think our pass defence would be good, but I'm starting to doubt that to. With Anderson sitting, we only have one, maybe two effective pass rushers on the DLine.

It's not blind support. And if it is, then your discontent is blind as well. Maybe he's not a good DC, it's not unlikely by any stretch. But when you're unconventional, preseason isn't going to be where the determination is made

His body of work in this league is more than large enough for us to form an opinion on his work. Just because it's only pre season doesn't mean we can't know what we're in for this year.

What was Sask's record during his three year tenure as DC? It did include three winning seasons and two grey cup trips.

If he can get his defence to buy in then it will be enough to put us in a position to win. That's a pretty decent step in the right direction for a franchise at an all time low if you ask me.

Doesn't matter what sasks record was, they were very unimpressed with Etchevary's defence and in 2010 they were second last in points against. They were good despite etch, certainly not because of him. To think otherwise is completely naive and blind faith

[iso_55]

It's pretty clear our D took a step back from previous years. Anyone who saw Etch in previous years expected this to happen here. On the flip side our O appears to have improved over the last few years. Something I'm not sure many would have expected. I said it in another thread that I think our O will get off to a better start then our D for a change. So we lose two preseason games by 2 points and 3 points. Both games were very winnable when it comes down too it. I can probably go through this forum and find two dozen people saying all I want to see is improvement this year over last year. Well over two games there is lots of improvement. Yup there is a lot of improvement to be had but firing a DC this soon will not make us improve before we start our season in 12 days. If we start 0-4 and the D Is the clear cut reason we are losing then I can see panic setting in and a reason to start looking for replacements. But if we are giving up 40 points a game and scoring 41 does it really matter?? All we really want this season is to be competitive and in games right? A post season appearance is out of the picture at this point and would just be icing on the cake if we actually make it there.

It does matter. You can't expect an offense to be under pressure every game to score points  because the defense gives up too much. That'll be a sure fire way to divide a team in the locker room when one side feels the other isn't doing its job.

[James]

I know it's just pre season but our run defence is non existent and overall I just don't see our defence improving once the regular season starts.

I wish, you'll have your usual bomber supporters who will blindly give excuses and support whoever is on staff bash you and say its way to early, but reality is Etchevary's not a good DC. It was simply a bad hire.

With who we have where, I don't see our run game getting any better. I used to think our pass defence would be good, but I'm starting to doubt that to. With Anderson sitting, we only have one, maybe two effective pass rushers on the DLine.

Etch has been a successful DC in this league .

So has Greg Marshall.

[Harbaugh]

To everyone who wants to fire Etch before our next practice

What's the plan?

[B-F-F-C]

To everyone who wants to fire Etch before our next practice

What's the plan?

 

We don't need a plan.  The team does.   

[gbill2004]

Maybe we should drop a pile of horse manure on his front lawn and he'll get the hint...

[James]

To everyone who wants to fire Etch before our next practice

What's the plan?

I don't necessarily think firing him would be a good idea. I think he was probably the best guy to get who was available and willing to come here at the time. I just really would like OShea to put a very tight leash on him and get heavily involved. If that means stepping on his toes and doing things etch doesn't want... Then so be it.

Etch has middle of the pack to good defences against the pass... But against the run he is atrocious! The other guys won't need to get more then 200 yards passing to wallop our defence, because they will routinely get 200 yards rushing.

[TBURGESS]

Firing Etch now would be idiotic.  Hiring him in the first place was too, but nothing we can do about that now.

[JuranBoldenRules]

It's pretty clear our D took a step back from previous years. Anyone who saw Etch in previous years expected this to happen here. On the flip side our O appears to have improved over the last few years. Something I'm not sure many would have expected. I said it in another thread that I think our O will get off to a better start then our D for a change. So we lose two preseason games by 2 points and 3 points. Both games were very winnable when it comes down too it. I can probably go through this forum and find two dozen people saying all I want to see is improvement this year over last year. Well over two games there is lots of improvement. Yup there is a lot of improvement to be had but firing a DC this soon will not make us improve before we start our season in 12 days. If we start 0-4 and the D Is the clear cut reason we are losing then I can see panic setting in and a reason to start looking for replacements. But if we are giving up 40 points a game and scoring 41 does it really matter?? All we really want this season is to be competitive and in games right? A post season appearance is out of the picture at this point and would just be icing on the cake if we actually make it there.

Our defense hasn't been good for most of the last two years.

I don't get the "we'll have to win 41-40" stuff when guys who will mostly be cut or otherwise not on the game roster just gave up 46 points in 2 games playing extremely basic schemes. I think we can pump the brakes for now on the panicking.

[gbill2004]

Are Etch defenses known for getting good pressure on the QB?

[James]

In 2010 Etchevary's defence in Saskatchewan was dead last in the following categories.

Fewest first downs rushing, fewest yards net rushing, avg yards rushing per game, avg gain per rush, lowest pass % completed, most interceptions.

He was also second last in fewest points.

He was third last in net offence per game and avg yards offence per game. He was also third last in QB sacks with 38.

He does have decent stats against the pass(which I suspected from watching his defences in the past, and because of the way he lines everybody up), but it certainly doesn't make up for how terrible he is in every other area.

My "panic" Is not from the pre season games

[Captain Blue]

I am not a fan of Etch but we need to give him time to see if his defense works here. Two preseason games with basic schemes AND probably thirty percent of the players won't ever be in a lineup this year.

[Harbaugh]

To everyone who wants to fire Etch before our next practice

What's the plan?

 

We don't need a plan.  The team does.

Well if you can suggest a firing you can suggest a plan.

[Mike]

In 2010 Etchevary's defence in Saskatchewan was dead last in the following categories.

Fewest first downs rushing, fewest yards net rushing, avg yards rushing per game, avg gain per rush, lowest pass % completed, most interceptions.

He was also second last in fewest points.

He was third last in net offence per game and avg yards offence per game. He was also third last in QB sacks with 38.

He does have decent stats against the pass(which I suspected from watching his defences in the past, and because of the way he lines everybody up), but it certainly doesn't make up for how terrible he is in every other area.

My "panic" Is not from the pre season games

 

You're also cherry picking a bit, but I'm sure you knew that. It's easy to say that Etcheverry's defense was weak in 2010 (especially their defensive line) after he lost a ton of personnel from the previous season.

 

And hey, they still went to the Grey Cup.

 

None of that makes him a great or even a good defensive coordinator, but cherry picking statistics that have everything to do with personnel that won't be wearing blue and gold makes little sense. Maybe for speculation. But to use it and try to prove anything definitively? Not likely.

[Fatty Liver]

I'm willing to give him a chance but I do wonder if Etch's defensive scheme can deal with current offensive trends in the CFL.  Argos will dink and dunk underneath effectively moving the ball down the field and Hamilton may decide to go that way now that they have Collaros.  Teams like Calgary, BC and perhaps Sask. will take what's given and should be able to run at will against his kind of defense.  Effectively pass protecting for the long ball doesn't prevent other teams from finding ways to win games.

 

Still bothers me that in that pre-season interview Etch thinks of himself as a misunderstood genius that's ahead of the curve.  Primary role of the defense should be  to adjust to what the offense is trying to accomplish and stop it.  The Bombers seem to have no ability to stop the run and i.m.o. Cornish would have easily ripped off a 200+ game if he was allowed to continue. 

[B-F-F-C]

Well it sure got some good discussion going     .   But if I was Osh I would have ensured that I hired  a DC that could build a strong ball take away defence given the offence would probably struggle out of the gate.  

 

As I said I hope he proves me wrong.    The title of the thread may have been a little dramatic but as I said it got everyone riled up.  

 

In the past we often wished for the offence to play as well as the defence did.   This year it might be a reversal of fortunes.  

[B-F-F-C]

I'm willing to give him a chance but I do wonder if Etch's defensive scheme can deal with current offensive trends in the CFL.  Argos will dink and dunk underneath effectively moving the ball down the field and Hamilton may decide to go that way now that they have Collaros.  Teams like Calgary, BC and perhaps Sask. will take what's given and should be able to run at will against his kind of defense.  Effectively pass protecting for the long ball doesn't prevent other teams from finding ways to win games.

 

Still bothers me that in that pre-season interview Etch thinks of himself as a misunderstood genius that's ahead of the curve.  Primary role of the defense should be  to adjust to what the offense is trying to accomplish and stop it.  The Bombers seem to have no ability to stop the run and i.m.o. Cornish would have easily ripped off a 200+ game if he was allowed to continue. 

 

Does that remind you of someone else?  

 

 

IMWT?

[blitzmore]

 

 

 

I know it's just pre season but our run defence is non existent and overall I just don't see our defence improving once the regular season starts.

I wish, you'll have your usual bomber supporters who will blindly give excuses and support whoever is on staff bash you and say its way to early, but reality is Etchevary's not a good DC. It was simply a bad hire.

With who we have where, I don't see our run game getting any better. I used to think our pass defence would be good, but I'm starting to doubt that to. With Anderson sitting, we only have one, maybe two effective pass rushers on the DLine.

It's not blind support. And if it is, then your discontent is blind as well. Maybe he's not a good DC, it's not unlikely by any stretch. But when you're unconventional, preseason isn't going to be where the determination is made

His body of work in this league is more than large enough for us to form an opinion on his work. Just because it's only pre season doesn't mean we can't know what we're in for this year.

 

Doesn't mean he's not able to change and adapt

[Floyd]

 

 

 

 

I know it's just pre season but our run defence is non existent and overall I just don't see our defence improving once the regular season starts.

I wish, you'll have your usual bomber supporters who will blindly give excuses and support whoever is on staff bash you and say its way to early, but reality is Etchevary's not a good DC. It was simply a bad hire.

With who we have where, I don't see our run game getting any better. I used to think our pass defence would be good, but I'm starting to doubt that to. With Anderson sitting, we only have one, maybe two effective pass rushers on the DLine.

It's not blind support. And if it is, then your discontent is blind as well. Maybe he's not a good DC, it's not unlikely by any stretch. But when you're unconventional, preseason isn't going to be where the determination is made

His body of work in this league is more than large enough for us to form an opinion on his work. Just because it's only pre season doesn't mean we can't know what we're in for this year.

 

Doesn't mean he's not able to change and adapt

 

 

He's been in football for 35 years or something... I don't think he's changing.

[blitzmore]

 

 

Historically Etch has used undersized personal in his defense sand had difficulty stopping the run. He may have been the innovator of the SAM as a DB/LB. His mistake in Sask with that was moving Vincent Donaldson, a true corner who was shy about tackling into that spot. Teams exploited that and ran up and down all over them. It is early but a fear of it here lingers.

So let me get this straight...you're worried that Etch is going to use a true corner who is shy about tackling in the wrong spot?

 

No, he's saying Etch put the wrong guy at the Sam position. Pretty clear to me what he was saying.

 

That's what I said "put in the wrong spot" I know exactly what he was saying as well, and it is nothing to worry about obviously...that happened in Sask...doesn't mean it going to happen here.

[James]

 

In 2010 Etchevary's defence in Saskatchewan was dead last in the following categories.

Fewest first downs rushing, fewest yards net rushing, avg yards rushing per game, avg gain per rush, lowest pass % completed, most interceptions.

He was also second last in fewest points.

He was third last in net offence per game and avg yards offence per game. He was also third last in QB sacks with 38.

He does have decent stats against the pass(which I suspected from watching his defences in the past, and because of the way he lines everybody up), but it certainly doesn't make up for how terrible he is in every other area.

My "panic" Is not from the pre season games

 

You're also cherry picking a bit, but I'm sure you knew that. It's easy to say that Etcheverry's defense was weak in 2010 (especially their defensive line) after he lost a ton of personnel from the previous season.

 

And hey, they still went to the Grey Cup.

 

None of that makes him a great or even a good defensive coordinator, but cherry picking statistics that have everything to do with personnel that won't be wearing blue and gold makes little sense. Maybe for speculation. But to use it and try to prove anything definitively? Not likely.

 

 

sure, i was cherry picking... but he still sucks

 

Plus I was tired of everyone saying "hey he got to the cup so he's a good DC" when he was definitely NOT the reason they got to the cup.

[James]

Are Etch defenses known for getting good pressure on the QB?

 

no

[Mike]

 

Are Etch defenses known for getting good pressure on the QB?

 

no

 

 

That's not necessarily true.

 

Who else made Stevie Baggs a sack leader?

[blitzmore]

 

 

In 2010 Etchevary's defence in Saskatchewan was dead last in the following categories.

Fewest first downs rushing, fewest yards net rushing, avg yards rushing per game, avg gain per rush, lowest pass % completed, most interceptions.

He was also second last in fewest points.

He was third last in net offence per game and avg yards offence per game. He was also third last in QB sacks with 38.

He does have decent stats against the pass(which I suspected from watching his defences in the past, and because of the way he lines everybody up), but it certainly doesn't make up for how terrible he is in every other area.

My "panic" Is not from the pre season games

 

You're also cherry picking a bit, but I'm sure you knew that. It's easy to say that Etcheverry's defense was weak in 2010 (especially their defensive line) after he lost a ton of personnel from the previous season.

 

And hey, they still went to the Grey Cup.

 

None of that makes him a great or even a good defensive coordinator, but cherry picking statistics that have everything to do with personnel that won't be wearing blue and gold makes little sense. Maybe for speculation. But to use it and try to prove anything definitively? Not likely.

 

 

sure, i was cherry picking... but he still sucks

 

Plus I was tired of everyone saying "hey he got to the cup so he's a good DC" when he was definitely NOT the reason they got to the cup.

 

 

The fire Etch now crowd...sounds just like the comments posters in the Sun's sports stories