Can we "Worman" Gary Ethchevery?

[James]

 

 

Are Etch defenses known for getting good pressure on the QB?

 

no

 

 

That's not necessarily true.

 

Who else made Stevie Baggs a sack leader?

 

how many sacks did the other guys get?

 

compared to what we're used to seeing, our defense is going to look pretty craptacular in this area

[James]

 

 

 

In 2010 Etchevary's defence in Saskatchewan was dead last in the following categories.

Fewest first downs rushing, fewest yards net rushing, avg yards rushing per game, avg gain per rush, lowest pass % completed, most interceptions.

He was also second last in fewest points.

He was third last in net offence per game and avg yards offence per game. He was also third last in QB sacks with 38.

He does have decent stats against the pass(which I suspected from watching his defences in the past, and because of the way he lines everybody up), but it certainly doesn't make up for how terrible he is in every other area.

My "panic" Is not from the pre season games

 

You're also cherry picking a bit, but I'm sure you knew that. It's easy to say that Etcheverry's defense was weak in 2010 (especially their defensive line) after he lost a ton of personnel from the previous season.

 

And hey, they still went to the Grey Cup.

 

None of that makes him a great or even a good defensive coordinator, but cherry picking statistics that have everything to do with personnel that won't be wearing blue and gold makes little sense. Maybe for speculation. But to use it and try to prove anything definitively? Not likely.

 

 

sure, i was cherry picking... but he still sucks

 

Plus I was tired of everyone saying "hey he got to the cup so he's a good DC" when he was definitely NOT the reason they got to the cup.

 

 

The fire Etch now crowd...sounds just like the comments posters in the Sun's sports stories

 

 

Like I said earlier, firing him is not the best move right now. we just need to give him a real short leash and a choke chain

[Mike]

Are Etch defenses known for getting good pressure on the QB?

no

That's not necessarily true.

Who else made Stevie Baggs a sack leader?

how many sacks did the other guys get?

compared to what we're used to seeing, our defense is going to look pretty craptacular in this area

Ask Jon Chick ...

[Harbaugh]

Are Etch defenses known for getting good pressure on the QB?

no

That's not necessarily true.

Who else made Stevie Baggs a sack leader?

how many sacks did the other guys get?

compared to what we're used to seeing, our defense is going to look pretty craptacular in this area

Ask Jon Chick ...

A huge reason our guys have had high sack tallies in recent years is because they've been on the field twice as much as they should be.

And what have those high sack numbers led us to?

[James]

sure, if you think 30 to 35 sacks a year is classified as good pressure you'll be very happy this year mike

[Harbaugh]

If etch can turn the BB into an average defence who can turn the ball over I'd say that puts us in a good position. Every defence has it's holes.

[B-F-F-C]

 

 

 

In 2010 Etchevary's defence in Saskatchewan was dead last in the following categories.

Fewest first downs rushing, fewest yards net rushing, avg yards rushing per game, avg gain per rush, lowest pass % completed, most interceptions.

He was also second last in fewest points.

He was third last in net offence per game and avg yards offence per game. He was also third last in QB sacks with 38.

He does have decent stats against the pass(which I suspected from watching his defences in the past, and because of the way he lines everybody up), but it certainly doesn't make up for how terrible he is in every other area.

My "panic" Is not from the pre season games

 

You're also cherry picking a bit, but I'm sure you knew that. It's easy to say that Etcheverry's defense was weak in 2010 (especially their defensive line) after he lost a ton of personnel from the previous season.

 

And hey, they still went to the Grey Cup.

 

None of that makes him a great or even a good defensive coordinator, but cherry picking statistics that have everything to do with personnel that won't be wearing blue and gold makes little sense. Maybe for speculation. But to use it and try to prove anything definitively? Not likely.

 

 

sure, i was cherry picking... but he still sucks

 

Plus I was tired of everyone saying "hey he got to the cup so he's a good DC" when he was definitely NOT the reason they got to the cup.

 

 

The fire Etch now crowd...sounds just like the comments posters in the Sun's sports stories

 

 

There's always someone who has to make it personal.   Listen, it's a football forum and we're all here to talk everything WBB related.  But to compare us to those tinfoil scum suckers on the Sun sight. Well you're way off base.   

 

History shows this guy has a short shelf life.  And it's not because he gets poached by other teams.   I think Osh is going to be a great coach and is a breath of fresh air but I wsn't then and still am not a fan of this hiring. 

[Floyd]

Etch's D (like almost all Ds...) succeed when their DL gets pressure, not necessarily sacks.

 

In Sask, he had Chick, Baggs, Chunky Adams, Shologan, Jones...  Etch may not focus on the DL but he sure benefitted from some major talent.  Not to mention he walked into one of the best LB cores in the league.

[Harbaugh]

sure, if you think 30 to 35 sacks a year is classified as good pressure you'll be very happy this year mike

What difference does it make? If we're playing decent defence it doesn't matter. Sure sack totals look nice but is rather have a defence that turns the ball over than tally sacks like the 3-15 bombers.

[James]

some more then others

 

its a lot easier to build a dominant defense than offence in an off season.. we needed this to be competitive this year, and IMO we completely threw that out the window when we hired Gary.

 

I sure hope I'm wrong!

[JuranBoldenRules]

Sacks are the second most useless stat after tackles.

 

I'll let you know after week 1 if our pass rush sucks.

[James]

 

sure, if you think 30 to 35 sacks a year is classified as good pressure you'll be very happy this year mike

What difference does it make? If we're playing decent defence it doesn't matter. Sure sack totals look nice but is rather have a defence that turns the ball over than tally sacks like the 3-15 bombers.

 

 

his defenses don't turn the ball over either. Maybe if some of the guys we have are natural ball hawks we will... but I have fairly low expectations in this area as well

[James]

Sacks are the second most useless stat after tackles.

 

I'll let you know after week 1 if our pass rush sucks.

 

Im pretty sure its going to suck With Jake Thomas and Kenny Tate getting a majority of the reps on the dline... but I look forward to it!

[Floyd]

Sacks are the second most useless stat after tackles.

 

I'll let you know after week 1 if our pass rush sucks.

 

Oh come on... Sacks are a more useless stat than tackles... 

[Blueandgold]

I see our team this year being similar to the 2005 Bombers. A good QB with an offense that can score points but a defense so atrocious you have to score 50 points to win. Now, I don't see us being as bad defensively as the team that employed Marcus & Marcel Smith but I do feel like that's the sort of season we'll have.

[Jpan85]

Get up by 14 and teams won't be running against them.

[voodoochylde]

Get up by 14 and teams won't be running against them.

At 11 yards a clip .. Teams are going to run on us until we can stop it ..

[bearpants]

Run defence was "disturbing" last night... that plus the injury to Newman are the only two major concerns from last night... I'm crossing my fingers we haven't seen the best of our defense can offer... hopefully.... but otherwise I feel a lot better about this team than in previous years... I think we've already matched last year's number of games where we were actually still on it at the end of the game

[ALuCsRED]

 

Over the last 2 years, our pass defence was terrible.  Absolutely terrible.  Bo Levi Mitchell was 29 for 33 for 376 yards in his first career start.  Whomever on here says our defence was great, needs to put their glasses on and take a look back.

 

Why was it terrible?  One big reason was that our offence last year was equally terrible.  If the defence does not get a rest, they will not produce.

 

The offense will be improved this year.  The defence will keep us in games.  Give these guys a chance.  If we listened to everyone on the board, we'd have a new coaching staff every 6 weeks, and the backup quarterback would continuously supplant the starter (every game).

[Nasty Nate]

A unique aspect of coaching is when you get a defensive specialist (ie. Tim Burke) to be your head coach you relax about defense cuz after all, we got the best DC in the league as our head man - he'll make sure the D is responsible. A myth.

 

Look back in time. When Bud Grant became HC in 1957 he was a split end (WR) who played a bit of DB. Yet, for years, the Bomber D was feared (we had a guy named Johnny Michaels as DC) while Bud's offense often sputtered and barfed under immortals like Ken Ploen, Leo Lewis and Frank Rigney. Of course, Grant had one of the weakest football minds in CFL history as his offensive assistant, Joe Zaleski.

 

Now we have a special teams assistant who played defense as our head coach and a wild mind as DC. It probably won't work. O'Shea and Walters might have to make a mid-season move if they sense things are unraveling. 

[17to85]

It's not that I want Etch fired... it's that I wish he was never hired in the first place. 

[Nasty Nate]

It's not that I want Etch fired... it's that I wish he was never hired in the first place. 

If they didn't grab Etch from the bottom of the barrel we probably have to look at a barrel of ex-NFL or AFL hobo-coaches like Barf Andrus.

[iso_55]

It's not that I want Etch fired... it's that I wish he was never hired in the first place. 

Exactly. We all thought Stubler was coming here & everyone was excited. Then when that didn't happen, we get Etcheverry. And everything that comes with the guy. Thud!!

[Mr Dee]

how many sacks did the other guys get?

 

 

compared to what we're used to seeing, our defense is going to look pretty craptacular in this area

 

 

As opposed to what over the last couple of years?

Under the guidance of a defensive guru, who has a very good reputation.

 

We should be basing opinions on what is going on now with the personnel we have here, and not of other teams.

What I've seen here rings of the "argumentation theory" - if many believe so, it is so.

 

Much too early to react…(sure wouldn't want some guys on here hovering over the "hot" button when things go wrong.)

[DR. CFL]

I gave the Sask example of an undersized ill equipped DB playing SAM as only a tip of the issue of that team being poor against the run. The other contributing concerns there and here are this team has already been somewhat undersized on defense in the past few years. Especially the front 7. Look at other teams fronts and most have at least one big heavy weight up front that can push the pocket and occupy multiple blocks.....someone in the 290 LB. range. I am concerned that if Etch has too many of his style ( size) guys on the roster this team will again have a serious issue stopping the run.