Messam

[mbrg]

 

 

Let me do some dot connecting for you.  How many decisions has OShea made that revolve around giving Willy the best possible chance to succeed?  He has explored the idea of having 3 imports on the Oline.  He is apparently using a DI spot on the RB position.  He is setting up his first time starting QB to have as much time as possible to find receivers and as little time as possible on his back.

 

Glad you've got it all figured out.  Three import OL and two import running backs sounds great.

 

 

It could be doable but I think it will make the D more weaker since we have to start 3 Nat on D - possibly DT Thomas, CB Bucknor and S Alexander.

LG Greaves, C Morley, SB Watson and WR Kohlert on O. RB will be the Returner too.

 

The Bombers are not using 3 imports on the Oline, that is not what I said.  I said they explored the idea.  Which they did.

[iso_55]

We have a huge NI problem, yet we don't even look at the 2 best NI's to come available in the last couple of weeks?  That's a problem IMHO.

Yeah, agreed. If Messam can still play then it frees up an International somewhere else. So, why not bring him in??? I don't get the "We're going with an International at running back" philosophy. So what if Messam doesn't play STs. If he can start as a running back letsomeone else do it. We let Jade Etienne waste a roster spot for 2 years picking his bum on the sidelines doing nothing. 

[sweep the leg]

 

We have a huge NI problem, yet we don't even look at the 2 best NI's to come available in the last couple of weeks?  That's a problem IMHO.

Yeah, agreed. If Messam can still play then it frees up an International somewhere else. So, why not bring him in??? I don't get the "We're going with an International at running back" philosophy. So what if Messam doesn't play STs. If he can start as a running back letsomeone else do it. We let Jade Etienne waste a roster spot for 2 years picking his bum on the sidelines doing nothing. 

 

He can't start, which is why the entire argument has been about his value as a backup and the need to play st's in that spot.

[bryan35]

If Messam can't start and can't play special teams the Bombers won't be bringing him here. End of story.

[Engelwood]

 

We have a huge NI problem, yet we don't even look at the 2 best NI's to come available in the last couple of weeks?  That's a problem IMHO.

Yeah, agreed. If Messam can still play then it frees up an International somewhere else. So, why not bring him in??? I don't get the "We're going with an International at running back" philosophy. So what if Messam doesn't play STs. If he can start as a running back letsomeone else do it. We let Jade Etienne waste a roster spot for 2 years picking his bum on the sidelines doing nothing. 

 

Jay Detain was the previous regime's choice, everyone bitched about him not playing teams, so I am not sure how this applies to this regime. Simple question do you beleive Messam is as good or better than Ford or Cotton?

[kelownabomberfan]

We let Jade Etienne waste a roster spot for 2 years picking his bum on the sidelines doing nothing.

and how did that work out for us?

[bearpants]

IMO I think we should start abbreviating Nationals 'NI' as in Nat-Ionals.... makes sense to me 

[bluto]

 

Messam is the best NI RB to come available.  Laurent was the best NI DT on the market.

 

Lots of guys acting like its easy to just pickup NI talent in this league...  that's cool, just don't complain when the ratio kills us this year.

And don't complain when Bilikudi and Muamba come back to Canada this year either. Then we go from suck to blow on the ratio.

 

 

i'm pretty sure you retain the rights to one of those guys... but not so sure about the other.

[17to85]

 

 

Messam is the best NI RB to come available.  Laurent was the best NI DT on the market.

 

Lots of guys acting like its easy to just pickup NI talent in this league...  that's cool, just don't complain when the ratio kills us this year.

And don't complain when Bilikudi and Muamba come back to Canada this year either. Then we go from suck to blow on the ratio.

 

 

i'm pretty sure you retain the rights to one of those guys... but not so sure about the other.

 

yeah but the other guy knows that Kyle Walters is willing to back a dump truck full of money up to his house

[TBURGESS]

We've got 4 DI's who can play on special teams.  We don't need every Canuck to play special teams any more.  Volny's not a great special team player, so we wouldn't lose much replacing him with Messam.  In fact Volny will probably be replaced by one of the defensive DI's anyway.

 

Messam wouldn't be a starter, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't play.  Having competent rotation/change of pace/backup NI's is almost as useful as having additional starters.  Volny's not a starter, so we wouldn't lose anything anyway.

 

Laurent was the other NI I was talking about.

 

Jade was a waste of a 1st round pick.  He didn't provide value on special teams and he didn't provide value at receiver (OK for 2 games in 3 years he did).  Messam provides value at RB which makes him more valuable than JE even though he doesn't play special teams.

 

The fact is we need better NI's and we haven't been interested in the 2 best available ones.  Waiting for next years draft/FA season means no upgraded NI's this year.  I call that a problem.  The team disagrees, but then again they don't call anything a problem or a worry.  

 

I'm tired of folks thinking that everything the Bombers staff does is right.  The last few years have proven that's not the case.  I'll give them the benefit of any doubt when they've earned it.  

 

This is a forum to discuss the Bombers, both good and  bad.  Disagreeing with some decisions is just part of that discussion.  Without it, this forum would just turn into fan boy central where everyone agrees with everything.

[bluto]

 

 

 

Messam is the best NI RB to come available.  Laurent was the best NI DT on the market.

 

Lots of guys acting like its easy to just pickup NI talent in this league...  that's cool, just don't complain when the ratio kills us this year.

And don't complain when Bilikudi and Muamba come back to Canada this year either. Then we go from suck to blow on the ratio.

 

 

i'm pretty sure you retain the rights to one of those guys... but not so sure about the other.

 

yeah but the other guy knows that Kyle Walters is willing to back a dump truck full of money up to his house

 

 

pretty sure his house is in Toronto... 

[iso_55]

 

We let Jade Etienne waste a roster spot for 2 years picking his bum on the sidelines doing nothing.

and how did that work out for us?

 

At least we know Messam can play. Etienne? Meh. 

[mbrg]

You can continue to argue that Messam is a better RB than Volny.  Being true doesn't make it relevant.

 

Is Messam better than Cotton?  Grigsby?  Ford?

 

That is who he is competing with for a job.  Cotton, Grigsby or Ford.

 

The relevant argument you can make is that the Bombers should not use one of the 4 DI's at the RB position.  If you actually have that opinion, then Messam would have value for this team.  You would also have an opinion that is not shared by the coach.  That is allowed.  However, here is why I suspect the coach doesn't share that opinion.

 

It still does nothing to help the ratio problem unless we use him as:

a) our starting fulltime RB, or

as part of an offensive rotation of starters, say with Swiston at right guard and Feoli-G as a 3rd NI receiver, making 6 NIs on offense for the entire game

 

This is one way of handling the ratio problem.  Is it the best way?  Who knows.  OShea doesn't think so.

 

Why?  My guess is that he feels rotating an inferior Olineman, inferior RB, and inferior receiver (relative to their import counterparts) will make Willy's job much more difficult.  He wants to make Willy's job as a first year starter as smooth and easy as possible.  It's hard to argue against that logic.  I'm sure you'll try.

 

Constantly bringing Volny's running abilities into the argument is a red herring.  He's still the 3rd string RB whether or not Messam plays here.  To continue to bring it up shows you are willfully ignoring the relevant points to argue irrelevant points.

 

Constantly bringing Volny's average special teams abilities into the argument is a red herring.  Even if he's a 5 out of 10 as a teams player, Messam is a 0.  Volny is in greater danger of losing his job to Brooks than he is to Messam.  At least Brooks had the potential to play some snaps on special teams.

 

Messam as starter - addresses ratio but makes us worse.

Messam as backup - does not address ratio, still makes us worse.

Messam as 3rd string - does not address ratio,makes us better on paper, does not have impact on field, increases payroll.

 

You seem to want Messam as the backup.  That doesn't address the ratio and makes us weaker on offense.  That's a lousy sales pitch.

[Mr Dee]

Don't forget the Laurent lament.

 

It's like saying, I should have dated so and so when they were available….never fully realizing they weren't interesTED.

[17to85]

 

 

We let Jade Etienne waste a roster spot for 2 years picking his bum on the sidelines doing nothing.

and how did that work out for us?

 

At least we know Messam can play. Etienne? Meh. 

 

do we really know that? Etienne hasn't been cut from any teams yet but Messam just got cut... maybe it's time to admit that it's been a long while since messam was a relevant player in the CFL. RBs have a short shelf life. 

[bluto]

that's a bit unfair to Messam, who was pretty good (albeit unspectacular) last season in spot duty.

[Goalie]

Messam hasn't been the same since having his NFL shot, Since he doesn't play special teams, i understand the reasoning to not bring him in. Last time messam was actually really good was a few years ago now, perhaps some are thinking that the messam from 2 3 years ago is the same one today but.. fact is, he's not. What does it say when a guy who a few years ago was compared to harris and cornish and is now cut on the 1st day of cuts by his current/former team. Tells me he isn't good enough. 80,000 for a guy who doesn't play special teams and wouldn't see the field on offence. So basically 80,000 to sit on the bench and be a Canadian.

 

Sure the Canadian depth thing is an issue, but signing messam won't fix it at all. 

 

Just want to add, signing messam would be the equivalent of signing any one of us off this site, we wouldn't play, we would just sit there and be Canadian and never play. Seems kind of silly to sign a guy who would only play in the extreme case that both our running  backs get injured. 

 

Sign this guy, sign that guy... but never wonder what that guy was cut? this was the first cut down date, i don't think we should be picking any of these guys up..

 

I get the feeling if CK played for another team and he was released, you'd have people wanting to bring him in too.

[Floyd]

The funny part of this argument is that Messam sucks because he had 121 carries for 565 yards and 300+ yards REC...

 

...but Will Ford is a potential all-star because he had 113 carries for 595 and 47 yards REC.  

 

Don't think either of them plays ST.

[Brandon]

We will see where he ends up and hopefully we don't end up having to start Volny ever!

[JuranBoldenRules]

The funny part of this argument is that Messam sucks because he had 121 carries for 565 yards and 300+ yards REC...

 

...but Will Ford is a potential all-star because he had 113 carries for 595 and 47 yards REC.  

 

Don't think either of them plays ST.

 

Wasn't Will Ford our Top Special Teams player last season?

[rebusrankin]

Henoc will be in Indy this year so the point is Moo.

 

However you can buy a much nicer house in Winnipeg than you can in Toronto for less $$$. Plus you don't lose $ for a provincial pension fund.

[TBURGESS]

Grigsby and Ford are red herrings in the situation.  Rotating O lineman, RB's and Receivers is so far past a red herring, that it's in the fiction category.  It's just not going to happen.

 

Messam is better than Volny.  That's who he'd be competing for a job with and who he would replace.  

 

Upgrading any NI helps our NI situation.  Bringing in a starting NI (None are available) would help our starting NI situation.

 

Volny had 5 special teams tackles, 6 catches for 40 yards and 37 rushes for 160 yards in 3 years. (CFL.CA)

Messam had 2 special teams tackles, 1 kick return, 31 catches for 317 yards and 121 rushes for 565 yards last year alone. (CFL.CA)

 

No one on this site would be anywhere near as good as Volny, let alone Messam.  Messam doesn't make us worse in any way.

 

Just wanted to add that no one wants to sign every guy who gets cut from other teams.  That one is just another red herring.

[DR. CFL]

People continue to dump on Etienne. Why is that? He was a converted kicker who had played maybe just over a season as a CIS receiver. After his first TC he should have been sent back to the CIS to PLAY and continue to develop. Not his fault. My take is the jury is still out on him.

[SPuDS]

The funny part of this argument is that Messam sucks because he had 121 carries for 565 yards and 300+ yards REC...

...but Will Ford is a potential all-star because he had 113 carries for 595 and 47 yards REC.

Don't think either of them plays ST.

Wasn't Will Ford our Top Special Teams player last season?

If not, he was at least very good.. 2 kickoff returns for TDs good..

[Mike]

The funny part of this argument is that Messam sucks because he had 121 carries for 565 yards and 300+ yards REC...

 

...but Will Ford is a potential all-star because he had 113 carries for 595 and 47 yards REC.  

 

Don't think either of them plays ST.

 

http://www.cfl.ca/article/bombers-re-sign-division-all-star-rb-ford

 

Ford was also a force on special teams last season, earning the Bombers nominee for Most Outstanding Special Teams Player. Twice in 2013 Ford was named CFL Special Teams Player of the Week (Week 11 & 15) for his dynamic returning abilities.