CJOB Coaches Show

[TrueBlue]

 

That interception was a tough one. But it's too easy to say he shouldn't have thrown it.

The play was called, The man, men were open, the blitz was on, Hall knew it, he had maybe 2 seconds to react because of the missed block, and he was already in the throwing motion.

Not a good result, but the choice would have been to bail when he saw the blitz was coming. That's not a good choice to make either. We don't want our QBs to turtle too fast. They can't assume someone will botch their block. A matter of trust. 

If Peterson gets half a block, it's aTD.

 

Or he could read the blitz pre-snap when 6 guys are lined up full bore on the line of scrimmage and move his first read onto a route where he has a chance to get the ball out before he's snowed under.  He can pretty safely assume on a blitz like that when he has fewer blockers than blitzers that there will be pressure coming from an outside gap, unless one of his linemen miraculously block 2 guys.  The OL handled that blitz correctly, the QB didn't.

 

 

Happens all to often with him.  Fails to recognize a blitz, and over-estimates the time he needs to do what he wants to do. 

[Adrenaline_x]

 

 

 

 

The next 3 practices will be used to evaluate who wins the backup QB job. Will focus on decision making.

IE. O'Shea was not happy with Halls int at the end. I finally got around to watching the game and yikes that was a poor decision to make. Eat the sack there and they might win the game.

I'm glad that you are finally seeing how mediocre Hall truly is. So please no more comparisons to Ricky Ray and dropping passes into the receivers hands. Halls noodle arm and stone legs simply won't cut it.

 

that's an interesting take on what I said.... quite frankly I think Hall looked OK until that int. I didn't see a whole lot from Brohm that would put him ahead at this point other than the fact that the int was just a brain fart and Brohm didn't make any of those this game so to me Hall is still the #2 guy but I think O'Shea is not happy with losing that game and rightly so, they gave the game away with dropped passes and sloppy tackling and other assorted mistakes. 

 

 

I've found that the only time Hall throws INT's are when he tries to throw as he is being hit.

 

He threw a few like that last year and again in Calgary...  Looks to me like the "noodle arm" that gets INT's thrown only comes out when he tries to throw when he should be eating a sack (or when he should've had more time to throw)

 

Not sure that was such a horrible choice  though.

 

Assuming your receiver comes up with the ball its a touchdown.  If not its most likely an incomplete pass.  At worse its intercepted.. which is was.. but I can kinda understand hall throwing the ball.  he has limited time to play late in the game and the receivers were dropping catch able passes.. he tried to do it on his own and through it up as he was hit..  should have ate the ball and kicked the field goal.. but i dunno.. i think the majority of the time the reicever breaks off their route when they see the qb in trouble and comes back to the ball.

 

The receiver on that play kept running after the defender stopped as he saw where the ball was going and the reciever then threw up his hands.. Hmmm.. dude, go fight for the ball.

[JuranBoldenRules]

 

 

That interception was a tough one. But it's too easy to say he shouldn't have thrown it.

The play was called, The man, men were open, the blitz was on, Hall knew it, he had maybe 2 seconds to react because of the missed block, and he was already in the throwing motion.

Not a good result, but the choice would have been to bail when he saw the blitz was coming. That's not a good choice to make either. We don't want our QBs to turtle too fast. They can't assume someone will botch their block. A matter of trust. 

If Peterson gets half a block, it's aTD.

 

Or he could read the blitz pre-snap when 6 guys are lined up full bore on the line of scrimmage and move his first read onto a route where he has a chance to get the ball out before he's snowed under.  He can pretty safely assume on a blitz like that when he has fewer blockers than blitzers that there will be pressure coming from an outside gap, unless one of his linemen miraculously block 2 guys.  The OL handled that blitz correctly, the QB didn't.

 

Don't know what was called…don't know what could have been called that would have made a difference. 

It's a split second decision and the play was there.

Nobody can say another call would have resulted in a different result.

Shoulda, coulda. situation.

 

 

If you don't have time to get the ball where it needs to go to complete the route, the play isn't there.  QB needs to read that, because nobody else can do that for him.

[Mr Dee]

If you don't have time to get the ball where it needs to go to complete the route, the play isn't there.  QB needs to read that, because nobody else can do that for him.

 

 

It's hard to argue a play that didn't come off…you see it as it wasn't there and I saw the man open. To me, just because the QB didn't make it happen doesn't mean it wasn't there.

[bluto]

it's fun to debate over backup QBs... and i imagine that you're all doing as much of it as you are because over the last several seasons there has been reason to argue and navel-gaze over who ought to be next in line to be under centre... and yeah, with the protection (or lack of it) that your current number 1 is likely to get (or not), perhaps this is a debate that's well worth having...

 

...but really, your best QB is your #1, he also is your best chance to win games and he may have the best potential upside out of all of them. so with that settled, i think that the run-defence (or lack of it), the sure-to-be-an-issue ratio problems and the continuing sorry state of affairs that the WBBFC OLine has been will be the topics that make up the threads and pages of MBB this season.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

hoping for good things for the Bombers so that O'Shea and Walters can continue to develop so that they're ready to take over for Scott and Jim in a few years.

[Adrenaline_x]

its nice to not be arguing over who should be starting each week (unless our willy become impotent)

[TBURGESS]

I'll be happy if Willy starts every game and there isn't any QB controversy this year, because that would mean Willy was doing as well as we all hope he does.  

 

I honestly don't think Hall or Brohm are even close to pushing Willy, so for either of them to start would mean Willy is hurt or playing very badly.  Either would suck for the Bombers.

[mbrg]

 

 

 

 

 

The next 3 practices will be used to evaluate who wins the backup QB job. Will focus on decision making.

IE. O'Shea was not happy with Halls int at the end. I finally got around to watching the game and yikes that was a poor decision to make. Eat the sack there and they might win the game.

I'm glad that you are finally seeing how mediocre Hall truly is. So please no more comparisons to Ricky Ray and dropping passes into the receivers hands. Halls noodle arm and stone legs simply won't cut it.

 

that's an interesting take on what I said.... quite frankly I think Hall looked OK until that int. I didn't see a whole lot from Brohm that would put him ahead at this point other than the fact that the int was just a brain fart and Brohm didn't make any of those this game so to me Hall is still the #2 guy but I think O'Shea is not happy with losing that game and rightly so, they gave the game away with dropped passes and sloppy tackling and other assorted mistakes. 

 

 

I've found that the only time Hall throws INT's are when he tries to throw as he is being hit.

 

He threw a few like that last year and again in Calgary...  Looks to me like the "noodle arm" that gets INT's thrown only comes out when he tries to throw when he should be eating a sack (or when he should've had more time to throw)

 

Not sure that was such a horrible choice  though.

 

Assuming your receiver comes up with the ball its a touchdown.  If not its most likely an incomplete pass.  At worse its intercepted.. which is was.. but I can kinda understand hall throwing the ball.  he has limited time to play late in the game and the receivers were dropping catch able passes.. he tried to do it on his own and through it up as he was hit..  should have ate the ball and kicked the field goal.. but i dunno.. i think the majority of the time the reicever breaks off their route when they see the qb in trouble and comes back to the ball.

 

The receiver on that play kept running after the defender stopped as he saw where the ball was going and the reciever then threw up his hands.. Hmmm.. dude, go fight for the ball.

 

The blitz left what looked like man coverage in the back and the receiver had single coverage in the middle of the end zone.  Hall put the ball up in the area.  I've seen an awful lot of touchdowns scored against us that way.

[17to85]

The blitz left what looked like man coverage in the back and the receiver had single coverage in the middle of the end zone.  Hall put the ball up in the area.  I've seen an awful lot of touchdowns scored against us that way.

 

 

 

the receiver took his route outside, likely what was called for him to do, but Hall wasn't able to get the ball out to him and it went more inside. To me it looked like Hall didn't get the ball where he wanted to get it on account of the pressure getting to him as he was throwing. He misjudged how much time he was going to have to throw and the result was a ball that didn't get where he wanted it to go. It was a risky decision at that point in the game. That happens when you're down by a bunch or early enough in the game it's not such a big deal, but the time in the game when it happened when you're knocking on the door to take a bigger lead you gotta be smarter with the ball. 

 

I'm not trying to be hard on Hall because to my eyes he was still the 2nd best qb in preseason but it was a mistake on his part no questions asked. 

[mbrg]

 

The blitz left what looked like man coverage in the back and the receiver had single coverage in the middle of the end zone.  Hall put the ball up in the area.  I've seen an awful lot of touchdowns scored against us that way.

 

 

 

the receiver took his route outside, likely what was called for him to do, but Hall wasn't able to get the ball out to him and it went more inside. To me it looked like Hall didn't get the ball where he wanted to get it on account of the pressure getting to him as he was throwing. He misjudged how much time he was going to have to throw and the result was a ball that didn't get where he wanted it to go. It was a risky decision at that point in the game. That happens when you're down by a bunch or early enough in the game it's not such a big deal, but the time in the game when it happened when you're knocking on the door to take a bigger lead you gotta be smarter with the ball. 

 

I'm not trying to be hard on Hall because to my eyes he was still the 2nd best qb in preseason but it was a mistake on his part no questions asked. 

 

That is a possibility, the other is a mistake on the receiver.  The coach will know what the route was.  The ball was just "up there".  It wasn't going to be a reception without some serious help from the receiver.  Helping the QB out on a blitz is part of the receivers job.  I'm fine with the decision to put it up there.  The connection wasn't made.  50+1 it was on Hall.

 

It's one of the problems with pre-season.  4 different QBs, 17 different receivers of varying talent levels.  Little develops in the way of chemistry.  Each QB has one or two guys they like to throw to and those guys might not be on the field at the same time.  Oline gets crappier as the game goes on.

[do or die]

After all these years.....can still learn something.....

 

Like.....if you hit the QB right in the act of throwing, he is more likely to put up an bad throw /INT.

 

This calls for some (more) gin........indeed.

[kelownabomberfan]

I'll be happy if Willy starts every game and there isn't any QB controversy this year, because that would mean Willy was doing as well as we all hope he does.  

 

I honestly don't think Hall or Brohm are even close to pushing Willy, so for either of them to start would mean Willy is hurt or playing very badly.  Either would suck for the Bombers.

That's a good point. I see a lot of people thinking that this team is going to be a lot like our 2010 team that seemed to find ways to lose every week, but only by a point or two. The thing to remember about 2010 was that we played a lot of that season without Buck (surprise I know) when Buck was still good. If Buck had stayed healthy that season our record might have looked a lot better, as we wouldn't have had to rely on Stephen Jyles. With a healthy QB all season with similar tools (or better) than Buck this team could surprise. IF Willy stays healthy. As Tburg says, let's hope there is no QB controversy this year as Willy just kicks butt all season and never goes down with an injury.

[Mr Dee]

Just watched that int. play over again and again…and the same thing happened…..

 

But really, now I see the blitz came from the other side and Peterson, the tackle should have had the outside man, no question.

It was the protection, not the play called. And that's basically Hall has said. He said it was the right call.

(Happened with about 5:25 left in the game)

And the receiver (Woods) went to the outside where it looked like the play should have gone.

[kelownabomberfan]

how is Peterson still on the team right now is what I want to know. On that play with the Hall INT and almost the entire time Marve was in the O-Line seemed lost in a fog, and Calgary guys were coming off the line unblocked on almost every down. That first play from scrimmage when Marve came in where the Calgary guy had a free shot on Marve and he rolled out and ran past the guy and threw a 20 yard rope to the receiver was a beauty. But with that crappy O-line, even Marve ended up being proved mortal.

[Valderan_CA]

Just watched that int. play over again and again…and the same thing happened…..

 

But really, now I see the blitz came from the other side and Peterson, the tackle should have had the outside man, no question.

It was the protection, not the play called. And that's basically Hall has said. He said it was the right call.

(Happened with about 5:25 left in the game)

And the receiver (Woods) went to the outside where it looked like the play should have gone.

 

That's actually the other thing

 

Normally when I saw Hall throwing INT's while getting hit it was on missed blocks making the pressure come sooner than their protection package would have Hall expecting it to come - especially from the blind side.

 

Not saying he wasn't at fault, but the decisions he makes while throwing the ball when he isn't getting hit are pretty damn good.

[mbrg]

Just watched that int. play over again and again…and the same thing happened…..

 

But really, now I see the blitz came from the other side and Peterson, the tackle should have had the outside man, no question.

It was the protection, not the play called. And that's basically Hall has said. He said it was the right call.

(Happened with about 5:25 left in the game)

And the receiver (Woods) went to the outside where it looked like the play should have gone.

I haven't watched the play over and over, but on the replay it looked like the tackle got confused as to which man he should take, hesitated before moving back, and by then it was too late.  It did not look like the left side was facing a numbers issue.  It did look like a play where the tackle should at least have gotten a chip on the blitzer but he didn't.  I'll take your word for it that it was Peterson.  Hall shouldn't make plays assuming his teammates are incompetent, you make them assuming others will do their jobs.

 

And then he got blown up good.  Real good.

[Fatty Liver]

Hopefully if this situation occurs again in the regular season the Bombers are smart enough to attempt to keep the ball on the ground and run the ball into the endzone when they have a first down inside the 10.

[rebusrankin]

For a "smart" QB, Hall makes some poor decisions such as not eating a sack to keep the shot a 3 points.

[Adrenaline_x]

 

Not sure that was such a horrible choice  though.

 

 

Assuming your receiver comes up with the ball its a touchdown.  If not its most likely an incomplete pass.  At worse its intercepted.. which is was.. but I can kinda understand hall throwing the ball.  he has limited time to play late in the game and the receivers were dropping catch able passes.. he tried to do it on his own and through it up as he was hit..  should have ate the ball and kicked the field goal.. but i dunno.. i think the majority of the time the reicever breaks off their route when they see the qb in trouble and comes back to the ball.

 

The receiver on that play kept running after the defender stopped as he saw where the ball was going and the reciever then threw up his hands.. Hmmm.. dude, go fight for the ball.

 

The blitz left what looked like man coverage in the back and the receiver had single coverage in the middle of the end zone.  Hall put the ball up in the area.  I've seen an awful lot of touchdowns scored against us that way.

 

 

I would think that the receivers or play calling would have caveats for dealing with the blitz.  Ie play is called, Recievers and qbs read blitz so the route the receiver runs should be shortened/modified to deal with the blitz.

 

Where can i rewatch the game? looks like it locked on tsn videos.

[Adrenaline_x]

For a "smart" QB, Hall makes some poor decisions such as not eating a sack to keep the shot a 3 points.

 

If you are hit while throwing, how do you eat the ball.  You can only really eat the ball if you are setting up to throw... Looks to me like he was throwing when he was hit and the ball did reach the back of the endzone.

[17to85]

 

For a "smart" QB, Hall makes some poor decisions such as not eating a sack to keep the shot a 3 points.

 

If you are hit while throwing, how do you eat the ball.  You can only really eat the ball if you are setting up to throw... Looks to me like he was throwing when he was hit and the ball did reach the back of the endzone.

 

you recognize that you don't have time to throw the ball and protect it. 

[kelownabomberfan]

Listening to the show on the CJOB vault, O'Shea is really polite and knowledgeable. I can't help but think though that he's sitting there thinking "man these people actually care about football in this town" when he's taking questions, good ones at least and not questions from old men and nutbars. I doubt they do anything like this in Toronto but I can imagine what it would be like:

"Welcome to the Scott Milanovich call in show. Let's get right to the calls...ok...there's no one yet...oh wait we have "Bluto" on line one...go ahead Bluto, looks like you're going to be our only caller tonight so you've got 55 minutes..."

[kelownabomberfan]

I asked O'Shea about Jesse Briggs. O'Shea says he should be back at practice next week and is looking forward to him contributing on special teams and eventually as a starter. Says Briggs now has an opportunity with Newman out for the season.

I also asked O'Shea about the run defense. Says he's not concerned at all.

You have a really whiny voice...

[gbill2004]

I asked O'Shea about Jesse Briggs. O'Shea says he should be back at practice next week and is looking forward to him contributing on special teams and eventually as a starter. Says Briggs now has an opportunity with Newman out for the season.

I also asked O'Shea about the run defense. Says he's not concerned at all.

You have a really whiny voice...

Really...are you serious?

[Mr Dee]

 

 

For a "smart" QB, Hall makes some poor decisions such as not eating a sack to keep the shot a 3 points.

 

If you are hit while throwing, how do you eat the ball.  You can only really eat the ball if you are setting up to throw... Looks to me like he was throwing when he was hit and the ball did reach the back of the endzone.

 

you recognize that you don't have time to throw the ball and protect it. 

 

 

It was a missed block..no way to have known the time restraints…no way.