CJOB Coaches Show

[bluto]

Listening to the show on the CJOB vault, O'Shea is really polite and knowledgeable. I can't help but think though that he's sitting there thinking "man these people actually care about football in this town" when he's taking questions, good ones at least and not questions from old men and nutbars. I doubt they do anything like this in Toronto but I can imagine what it would be like:

"Welcome to the Scott Milanovich call in show. Let's get right to the calls...ok...there's no one yet...oh wait we have "Bluto" on line one...go ahead Bluto, looks like you're going to be our only caller tonight so you've got 55 minutes..."

 

would be the best 55 minutes of radio ever.

[Mr Dee]

 

Just watched that int. play over again and again…and the same thing happened…..

 

But really, now I see the blitz came from the other side and Peterson, the tackle should have had the outside man, no question.

It was the protection, not the play called. And that's basically Hall has said. He said it was the right call.

(Happened with about 5:25 left in the game)

And the receiver (Woods) went to the outside where it looked like the play should have gone.

I haven't watched the play over and over, but on the replay it looked like the tackle got confused as to which man he should take, hesitated before moving back, and by then it was too late.  It did not look like the left side was facing a numbers issue.  It did look like a play where the tackle should at least have gotten a chip on the blitzer but he didn't.  I'll take your word for it that it was Peterson.  Hall shouldn't make plays assuming his teammates are incompetent, you make them assuming others will do their jobs.

 

And then he got blown up good.  Real good.

 

 

You described the play pretty well how it happened regarding the tackle #51.

A simple chip and that int. doesn't happen.

Exactly right regarding Hall…he's got to assume the play, as called, is going to work as drawn up.

 

 

 

 

 

Hopefully if this situation occurs again in the regular season the Bombers are smart enough to attempt to keep the ball on the ground and run the ball into the endzone when they have a first down inside the 10.

 

How can you recognize a broken play... much less plan for it?

[JuranBoldenRules]

Listening to the show on the CJOB vault, O'Shea is really polite and knowledgeable. I can't help but think though that he's sitting there thinking "man these people actually care about football in this town" when he's taking questions, good ones at least and not questions from old men and nutbars. I doubt they do anything like this in Toronto but I can imagine what it would be like:

"Welcome to the Scott Milanovich call in show. Let's get right to the calls...ok...there's no one yet...oh wait we have "Bluto" on line one...go ahead Bluto, looks like you're going to be our only caller tonight so you've got 55 minutes..."

 

That tight end call kind of felt that long.

[johnzo]

[deleted]

[kelownabomberfan]

 

 

I asked O'Shea about Jesse Briggs. O'Shea says he should be back at practice next week and is looking forward to him contributing on special teams and eventually as a starter. Says Briggs now has an opportunity with Newman out for the season.

I also asked O'Shea about the run defense. Says he's not concerned at all.

You have a really whiny voice...

Really...are you serious?

 

No....hence the Smiley face....

[Mr Dee]

Looks like a whiny face to me.

[johnzo]

Or he could read the blitz pre-snap when 6 guys are lined up full bore on the line of scrimmage and move his first read onto a route where he has a chance to get the ball out before he's snowed under.  He can pretty safely assume on a blitz like that when he has fewer blockers than blitzers that there will be pressure coming from an outside gap, unless one of his linemen miraculously block 2 guys. The OL handled that blitz correctly, the QB didn't.

 

I think mbrg is right here.

There were only five Stampeders rushing on that play.  Seven guys were on the line, two dropped back.  And FFS we had Grigsby in the backfield blocking too, so our protection outnumbered their pass rush 6-5.

Look at how #51 was one-on-one with the outside rusher and totally whiffed on him. He wasn't even a speed bump. This is some Boatmanesque ****.

Meanwhile on the other side of the line, #60, he's just kinda wandering, lost in space, and then he reaches out and taps the guy opposite him as if to reassure.

This looks pretty shameful for the OL here.  Maybe you can fault Hall for throwing a ball he shouldn't have thrown, but you can't blame him for playing behind an LT who's more of a matador than a football player.

[mbrg]

 

 

Just watched that int. play over again and again…and the same thing happened…..

 

But really, now I see the blitz came from the other side and Peterson, the tackle should have had the outside man, no question.

It was the protection, not the play called. And that's basically Hall has said. He said it was the right call.

(Happened with about 5:25 left in the game)

And the receiver (Woods) went to the outside where it looked like the play should have gone.

I haven't watched the play over and over, but on the replay it looked like the tackle got confused as to which man he should take, hesitated before moving back, and by then it was too late.  It did not look like the left side was facing a numbers issue.  It did look like a play where the tackle should at least have gotten a chip on the blitzer but he didn't.  I'll take your word for it that it was Peterson.  Hall shouldn't make plays assuming his teammates are incompetent, you make them assuming others will do their jobs.

 

And then he got blown up good.  Real good.

 

 

You described the play pretty well how it happened regarding the tackle #51.

A simple chip and that int. doesn't happen.

Exactly right regarding Hall…he's got to assume the play, as called, is going to work as drawn up.

 

 

I had no idea who was playing left tackle on that play.  The only thought I had watching the replay was "I hope that wasn't Neufeld" cause whomever was out there looked terrible on that play.

[JuranBoldenRules]

 

Or he could read the blitz pre-snap when 6 guys are lined up full bore on the line of scrimmage and move his first read onto a route where he has a chance to get the ball out before he's snowed under.  He can pretty safely assume on a blitz like that when he has fewer blockers than blitzers that there will be pressure coming from an outside gap, unless one of his linemen miraculously block 2 guys. The OL handled that blitz correctly, the QB didn't.

 

I think mbrg is right here.

There were only five Stampeders rushing on that play.  Seven guys were on the line, two dropped back.  And FFS we had Grigsby in the backfield blocking too, so our protection outnumbered their pass rush 6-5.

Look at how #51 was one-on-one with the outside rusher and totally whiffed on him. He wasn't even a speed bump. This is some Boatmanesque ****.

Meanwhile on the other side of the line, #60, he's just kinda wandering, lost in space, and then he reaches out and taps the guy opposite him as if to reassure.

This looks pretty shameful for the OL here.  Maybe you can fault Hall for throwing a ball he shouldn't have thrown, but you can't blame him for playing behind an LT who's more of a matador than a football player.

 

 

Clearly they didn't spend time putting in any packages to deal with the blitz other than very basic stuff, MOS said as much on his show.

 

When they show all those guys on the line, the OL can't assume anyone is going to drop out, so they have to revert to protecting their inside gap and going from there, the most basic pass protection.  The QB needs to read the blitz too and realize that there's a strong chance that a rusher is going to make it through off the edge, which is by design, the shortest route into the pocket is through the inside gaps, a rusher coming from the outside still gives the QB time to react, especially if he makes the correct read pre-snap, that is pretty basic and at the very least Hall should have known that he wouldn't have time to throw a corner route just by looking across the line.

 

The OL did the right thing, of course the blocking wasn't perfect and Peterson could have got more of the edge rusher, but the QB needs to assume pressure when a defence shows a front like that.

[Goalie]

Why are we making excuses for Max Hall? This is what I don't really understand. It's pretty apparent the guy isn't good enough to be a starter and if he's not good enough to be a starter, then why keep him around? because of his experience? from last season? when he went 1-8 as a starter? The guy isn't a spring chicken. The way I sum up Max Hall is what you see is what you get, he's not going to get better because he's been the same Max Hall his entire career, same Max Hall in Arizona is the same Max Hall in Winnipeg. Weak arm and makes really questionable decisions with the ball, he did this last year too, he did it with the cardinals, Ok qb's will make mistakes but when you are defined as being a "smart qb", How can you be when you keep making the dumb throws.

 

Enough excuses for Hall, he isn't good enough. Bottom Line : he was the best of a bunch of legitimate crap that we had last year, This year, a rookie looks better and a guy who sat on the IR all last season looks about the same. 

[17to85]

Why are we making excuses for Max Hall? This is what I don't really understand. It's pretty apparent the guy isn't good enough to be a starter and if he's not good enough to be a starter, then why keep him around? because of his experience? from last season? when he went 1-8 as a starter? The guy isn't a spring chicken. The way I sum up Max Hall is what you see is what you get, he's not going to get better because he's been the same Max Hall his entire career, same Max Hall in Arizona is the same Max Hall in Winnipeg. Weak arm and makes really questionable decisions with the ball, he did this last year too, he did it with the cardinals, Ok qb's will make mistakes but when you are defined as being a "smart qb", How can you be when you keep making the dumb throws.

 

Enough excuses for Hall, he isn't good enough. Bottom Line : he was the best of a bunch of legitimate crap that we had last year, This year, a rookie looks better and a guy who sat on the IR all last season looks about the same. 

Are Hall and Brohm not pretty much the same age with similar experiences in other leagues except that Hall has started more games in the CFL? That's why we're having these discussions because we have 2 backups at a similar point in their careers only one is slightly more experienced than the other. He may not be good enough to start, but I haven't seen any of the qbs behind Willy stand out more than Hall has yet. Marve looks promising but again the guy has only had a couple series haven't seen nearly enough of him in real situations to make any kind of statement on him.

[Goalie]

 

Why are we making excuses for Max Hall? This is what I don't really understand. It's pretty apparent the guy isn't good enough to be a starter and if he's not good enough to be a starter, then why keep him around? because of his experience? from last season? when he went 1-8 as a starter? The guy isn't a spring chicken. The way I sum up Max Hall is what you see is what you get, he's not going to get better because he's been the same Max Hall his entire career, same Max Hall in Arizona is the same Max Hall in Winnipeg. Weak arm and makes really questionable decisions with the ball, he did this last year too, he did it with the cardinals, Ok qb's will make mistakes but when you are defined as being a "smart qb", How can you be when you keep making the dumb throws.

 

Enough excuses for Hall, he isn't good enough. Bottom Line : he was the best of a bunch of legitimate crap that we had last year, This year, a rookie looks better and a guy who sat on the IR all last season looks about the same. 

Are Hall and Brohm not pretty much the same age with similar experiences in other leagues except that Hall has started more games in the CFL? That's why we're having these discussions because we have 2 backups at a similar point in their careers only one is slightly more experienced than the other. He may not be good enough to start, but I haven't seen any of the qbs behind Willy stand out more than Hall has yet. Marve looks promising but again the guy has only had a couple series haven't seen nearly enough of him in real situations to make any kind of statement on him.

 

How has hall stood out exactly? 

[mbrg]

 

 

Why are we making excuses for Max Hall? This is what I don't really understand. It's pretty apparent the guy isn't good enough to be a starter and if he's not good enough to be a starter, then why keep him around? because of his experience? from last season? when he went 1-8 as a starter? The guy isn't a spring chicken. The way I sum up Max Hall is what you see is what you get, he's not going to get better because he's been the same Max Hall his entire career, same Max Hall in Arizona is the same Max Hall in Winnipeg. Weak arm and makes really questionable decisions with the ball, he did this last year too, he did it with the cardinals, Ok qb's will make mistakes but when you are defined as being a "smart qb", How can you be when you keep making the dumb throws.

 

Enough excuses for Hall, he isn't good enough. Bottom Line : he was the best of a bunch of legitimate crap that we had last year, This year, a rookie looks better and a guy who sat on the IR all last season looks about the same. 

Are Hall and Brohm not pretty much the same age with similar experiences in other leagues except that Hall has started more games in the CFL? That's why we're having these discussions because we have 2 backups at a similar point in their careers only one is slightly more experienced than the other. He may not be good enough to start, but I haven't seen any of the qbs behind Willy stand out more than Hall has yet. Marve looks promising but again the guy has only had a couple series haven't seen nearly enough of him in real situations to make any kind of statement on him.

 

How has hall stood out exactly? 

 

During the first part of camp Hall and Willy were a clear cut above the other QBs.  The practises I saw, admittedly not many and all near the start, I would not even have had Willy significantly ahead of Hall.  Their performances were nearly identical.  I don't have a horse in this race, other than the Bombers.  Brohm improving over the last week is the only reason there is a discussion on this.  7 days ago Hall would have been the no-brainer pick for backup.  Brohm did not look like he even belonged in this league.  Some posters here were complaining that we used a pick to acquire him.

 

This is why camp is more than 10 days long.

 

Whether or not Hall or Brohm is better and should be the number 2 guy is not a factor in my opinion of what happened on that individual play.  In my opinion I like going for that pass if the defence shows that coverage.  In my opinion burning the other team by going deep over the middle when they blitz is the absolute best way to get another team to stop blitzing.  In my opinion a good offensive lineman should have been able to get a hand on the rusher.  In my opinion Peterson (?) got confused and touched nothing when facing one rusher who was never more than 4 feet away from him.  If his arms are 3 feet long, and I'm guessing they are at least that, then he was unable to close 1 foot of space despite having a 1 yard head start on his backpedal.  He looked very bad on that play in my opinion.  In my opinion every player on the field has to play like his 11 teammates will do their jobs, and a QB should get the same grace.  In my opinion if the ball goes deeper in the end zone it is a touchdown.  Or another drop.  In my opinion the reason it does not get there is because Hall was hit while throwing, not because of his "noodle arm".  In my opinion that play is likely a touchdown if the Olineman gets a slight push on the chest of the Dlineman with just one hand.

 

That play has me cutting Peterson, not Hall.  If Brohm continues to get better with each practise, that is what would have me cutting Hall.

 

(assuming we only have 3 QBs on our roster, which I am not in favour of)

[blitzmore]

The coaches during training camp are charting each and every throw that each QB makes, as well as many other factors...and what the QB coach has to say. Seems to me these factors plus performances in the pre-season games will determine the final order. Although I think that sometime down the road, Marve will be really good if he gets a chance, it means little as we are only grading these guys subjectively. Fun to watch who thinks which one has all the tools, but unless they can back it up with facts...doesn't really mean much in the end.

 

When I went to training camp sessions, I liked Willy, Hall, and Marve, especially Marve. I don't think that way any more, now it's Willy and Marve for me, then Brohm...but matters not...the coaches know...or should anyway.

[Tracker]

As much as I believe that Marve has great potential, it comes down to Hall vs Brohm for the backup spot. Hall had the inside track, or should have had, but so far he has not shown any better than last season. Because the O-line is going to take a few games to gel, a lead-footed quarterback will be dismembered. So- do we want a QB who seems to be as good as he can get at this point or one who is at least neck and neck with his rival but has nowhere to go but up?

[17to85]

i still say they keep all 4 qbs around. given this teams history they'll be using all of them at some point this season anyway.