Cusp

[Atomic]

when you compare the differences in completion percentage it amounts to 3 completions different over the same number of attempts... now do you have stats for drops? Cause without them you can't really make a good comparison. Let's say this.... their completion percentage for all intents and purposes is equal. Pierce has thrown more ints (ie. more bad decisions) he has taken way way more sacks (slower decisions, less mobility) what exactly are you trying to prove in regards to this argument? Do you really think you have proven anything about the effectiveness of Pierce vs. Goltz? Goltz makes less mistakes, completes the same number of passes essentially AND adds a huge amount of mobility and makes quicker decisions. Considering that one guy is a 9 year CFL veteran and one guy has 2 career starts this really is a no contest. 

 

This is about who is better now, not who is better in 2 years.  Your remark that one has more experience than the other is completely irrelevant.  This is about who is better right now.

 

And brilliant move with the "Ok Pierce's accuracy is higher, but let's just say they're equal."  I mean, I don't even know how to argue that.  Why don't you just come right out and say "Pierce is better but let's just call it equal."  That's about all I'm seeing from your fantasy world argument.

 

Even better - "Goltz makes less mistakes."  Wow, you must have a pretty intimate knowledge of the playbook to be able to make that claim.  Very bold.

[Mr Dee]

The better QB?

Not a bone of contention for me.

Who I believe has a better chance to win the next game is.

Goltz.

[rebusrankin]

A higher percentage of Goltz's passes have been tds and a lower % have been picked off. Goltz has rushed more frequently and more successfully. Taken less sacks too.

[17to85]

This is about who is better now, not who is better in 2 years.  Your remark that one has more experience than the other is completely irrelevant.  This is about who is better right now.

 

And brilliant move with the "Ok Pierce's accuracy is higher, but let's just say they're equal."  I mean, I don't even know how to argue that.  Why don't you just come right out and say "Pierce is better but let's just call it equal."  That's about all I'm seeing from your fantasy world argument.

 

Even better - "Goltz makes less mistakes."  Wow, you must have a pretty intimate knowledge of the playbook to be able to make that claim.  Very bold.

you missed the biggest point here.... Goltz is better RIGHT NOW with so much less experience under his belt. Even if we go so far as to say that their passing is equal (which I don't think is the case, I think Goltz is ahead in the passing game) his massive (and it is massive at this point in their careers) edge in mobility and quickness makes him a much more dangerous and effective player than Pierce. You see we can say their accuracy is equal because it's 3 passes which for all we know is made up for in the difference in drops each has dealt with or maybe with receivers running wrong routes or something, we don't know all the ins and outs as to why passes were incomplete and for a matter of 3 passes I will give you equal (I still say the eye ball test has Goltz missing by less than Pierce when he misses) You have one stat to back up your claims which is dubious at best. TIme to concede you are mistaken and move along. 

[kelownabomberfan]

A higher percentage of Goltz's passes have been tds and a lower % have been picked off. Goltz has rushed more frequently and more successfully. Taken less sacks too.

 

Goltz's mobility gives him the edge over Buck in my opinion.  I was so tired of yelling "FOR CRYING OUT LOUD" at the TV while Buck just stood there with his deer in headlights look on his face as a DT fell on him.  At least Goltz tries to get away from pressure, as opposed to just standing there waiting for it to jump on him.

[DR. CFL]

Bluto as the Argo expert ,check the old Argo books there was a QB in the late 70's maybe start of 80s had an unbelievable completion average....then check his passing yardage and yardage per pass. It was like 6 yds. Great % but people need to be more results driven.

[17to85]

Goltz's mobility gives him the edge over Buck in my opinion.  I was so tired of yelling "FOR CRYING OUT LOUD" at the TV while Buck just stood there with his deer in headlights look on his face as a DT fell on him.  At least Goltz tries to get away from pressure, as opposed to just standing there waiting for it to jump on him.

Pierces biggest issue by far was his inability to make a decision. Hestiated to throw quickly, hesitated to pull it and run, He was playing like a rookie for gods sake. 

[DR. CFL]

I am not sure what QB would be thrilled to play behind the current o line right now.

[pigseye]

Buck, being the veteran he is, is watching and absorbing what works and doesn't with this offence. Our coaches are far from committed to staying with Goltz, despite what they say, Buck will come back and tear it up and the coaches will be considered genius for lighting a fire under him, even though they have no clue what they are really doing. Goltz is nothing more than a human punching bag while Crowton figures things out, sorry to say for those Goltz's fans or those who think the Bombers really have moved on from Buck.

[Mr Dee]

Here we go again....

 

Was it a plumbing company this time?

[pigseye]

Mr. Dee

 

You always use a crash test dummy when you're still testing things out. Crowton spilled the beans in the paper, once Goltz get's rubbed out, they will try Hall if they still haven't got it working right. Once they do though, Buck will be starting again.

[Atomic]

I don't think we'll see Pierce again but I agree that we'll be seeing Hall. Burke pretty much gave it away that they're going to try to start getting Hall into the games. If Goltz can't start putting up wins, I bet we'll be seeing Hall start by the Banjo Bowl.

[Atomic]

you missed the biggest point here.... Goltz is better RIGHT NOW with so much less experience under his belt. Even if we go so far as to say that their passing is equal (which I don't think is the case, I think Goltz is ahead in the passing game) his massive (and it is massive at this point in their careers) edge in mobility and quickness makes him a much more dangerous and effective player than Pierce. You see we can say their accuracy is equal because it's 3 passes which for all we know is made up for in the difference in drops each has dealt with or maybe with receivers running wrong routes or something, we don't know all the ins and outs as to why passes were incomplete and for a matter of 3 passes I will give you equal (I still say the eye ball test has Goltz missing by less than Pierce when he misses) You have one stat to back up your claims which is dubious at best. TIme to concede you are mistaken and move along.

Look, I know you're the resident "defend the indefensible" guy, but unfortunately the numbers don't lie and you're left grasping at straws in a vain attempt to hold on to the little hope left for this season. Goltz might be a better QB someday but not yet.

[Guest]

http://www.winnipegsun.com/2013/08/06/buck-still-in-bombers-quarterback-picture

 

For anyone thinking that Buck is 100% done playing, and I honestly completely disagree with these thoughts, while I'm not crazy about buck sitting if you going to play Goltz stick with him, same would go for Hall or Pierce.

 

Also I know some might disagree with me, but IMO Coach Burke all but confirmed my thoughts last night on "The Coaches show", Buck clearly isn't/wasn't injured and was only taken out as a procatuionary measure, and when the Bombers brass saw Goltz throw for 170 yards in garbage time, they figured he was ready, hence why Buck isn't starting.

I honestly want to see how much Goltz has to suck before he gets pulled, because I honestly don't see Goltz playing all season if he continues throwing for under 200 yards a game.

[Mr Dee]

Mr. Dee

 

You always use a crash test dummy when you're still testing things out. Crowton spilled the beans in the paper, once Goltz get's rubbed out, they will try Hall if they still haven't got it working right. Once they do though, Buck will be starting again.

 

It's not the Hall playing part I'm laughing at....it's the Buck coming back and tearing it up part. 

[17to85]

Look, I know you're the resident "defend the indefensible" guy, but unfortunately the numbers don't lie and you're left grasping at straws in a vain attempt to hold on to the little hope left for this season. Goltz might be a better QB someday but not yet.

The indefensible position in this debate is that PIerce is better than Goltz. It's not the case and there is nothing that backs it up. Absolutely nothing. If you think you do have something that backs it up let's hear it cause 57% vs. 60% ain't going to cut it. 

[Brandon]

I'm kind of disappointed that this site has a few trolls on it.

Regardless it's funny the tells have ignored the fact that Buck has three more interceptions. Goltz has four more rushing TDs and 70 more yards running.

Also he has way less sacks taking against him.

much rather him throw the ball away then for us to take the sack and put us in the hole. That's one of the things Elliott did well with least year and which Buck struggled with.

Also at least Goltz can throw a deep ball and actually throw the ball near the receiver unlike Buck missing guys by a mile.

[Atomic]

I'm kind of disappointed that this site has a few trolls on it.

 

Troll?  Different opinion == troll?  Didn't know that.

[rebusrankin]

Simpson runs better too with Goltz under center. Threat of a running QB imo.

 

They may go back to Buck but he will not light it up. Last time Buck light up a game was week 2 of 2010.

[Brandon]

Troll?  Different opinion == troll?  Didn't know that.

 

Troll ==  Anyone suggesting that Buck Pierce should go in and also suggesting that Goltz was playing at a lower level then him... plain and simple!  

[Mike]

I'm not going to say Goltz deserves credit for four rushing touchdowns because a couple of those were in goal line situations Pierce led them to, but Pierce is still an awful quarterback.

 

I know we're splitting hairs here but really, Goltz is better now and likely in the future.

 

That being said, I still think Max Hall is the end-game here and I still think we're just keeping him from being thrown to the wolves before Gary figures his **** out.

[Guest]

That being said, I still think Max Hall is the end-game here and I still think we're just keeping him from being thrown to the wolves before Gary figures his **** out.

Matty Dunigan and I concur with you Mike.

[iso_55]

Matty Dunigan and I concur with you Mike.

 

I'm not going to say Goltz deserves credit for four rushing touchdowns because a couple of those were in goal line situations Pierce led them to, but Pierce is still an awful quarterback.

 

I know we're splitting hairs here but really, Goltz is better now and likely in the future.

 

That being said, I still think Max Hall is the end-game here and I still think we're just keeping him from being thrown to the wolves before Gary figures his **** out.

Agree with you, Mike.

[pigseye]

Troll ==  Anyone suggesting that Buck Pierce should go in and also suggesting that Goltz was playing at a lower level then him... plain and simple!  

 

lol, like the coaching staff.......good trolls do have a way of making you think they're not trolling though.

[rebusrankin]

Agree that Hall is the end game.