Moving To A Different Province

[Fraser]

So I just completed a program that might give me some job opportunities outside of Winnipeg. Likely Calgary, Vancouver or Toronto. I know we've got lots of people on this form from various cities so any insight from residents would be great

 

Likely I'd be working a > 40 hour a week job in the down town area and renting an apartment close to work. Feel free to add anything you might think is relevant or shoot down anything that is a misconception about these places

 

Calgary Pro's:

 

Probably cheapest to live in.

Would be able to keep my car.

shortest flight home

least amount of taxes

close to banff

shortest move

I don't mind the up and down weather

less taxes

 

Cons:

 

I don't really like country music or anything cowboy related

probably the worst of the cities when it comes to international airports (still better than WPG) for flying internationally

I don't have a bad driving record but I've managed to get a speeding ticket every 3 years or so just often enough to keep merits away, I'm not sure how much different private insurance is than MPI for an abstract like that.

 

Vancouver Pro's

 

I've been to Vancouver a lot and I like the city but don't really know what would set it apart from Calgary or Toronto.

I'm sure next to Toronto it would be the best airport to travel out of for vacation.

 

Con's

 

Warm in winter is nice but if it really is dreary I wouldn't like that. I'd probably travel during the summer so its not like I could get away much for winter.

I think a parking sport in downtown Vancouver would be crazy expensive.

I'm not a hippie

 

Toronto Pros's

 

would probably have the best jobs, maybe not good enough to offset the extra taxes and living expenses compared to Calgary at least for a while

Would be great to travel out of for vacations

I'm not super "Toronto" but I am more "Toronto" than I am hippie or cowboy

 

Con's

 

I doubt I could afford to bring my car

I don't know how bad smog actually is as I've never been there in summer

 

 

In my spare time I like to play in bands. I know in WPG lots of bars have to have live music to keep there liquor license and that keeps live music going, I'm not sure if any of theses cities have the same deal?

 

[iso_55]

I can only give you the perspective of living in Calgary the past 23 years. There used to be a feeling of independence, we can get it done kind of feeling when I first got here. During the Klein Years we slew the debt & we felt anything was possible. Then Klein quit & we repalced him with 2 Red Tories in succession as Premier & we're on track to wrack up $15 to $20 billion in debt. Taxes will go up, services have & will be cut. Our government is a mess. People now think that government should take care of them more now in contrast than in the early 90's. There isn't the pride there used to be living here & times have changed.

As far as the city goes, it has a metropolitan population of 1.3 million & growing fast. The skyline is amazing & due for a change as three new skyscrapers are due to be built in the next 3 years. Calgary is not as country as you think, except at Stampede time. Decent restaurants but not on par with Winnipeg, especially no Bridge Drive Inn. Some people love the mountains but I miss the lakes.

Housing is expensive & almost out of reach of young couples. Rental vacancies are at nearly zero. With university & colleges starting up in a month & the floods, apartments are at a premium & rents are expected to skyrocket. There was a story in the Calgary Herald last week about the growing housing & rental crunch that is coming.

You'll find a big difference with private insurance. If you've got a speeding ticket every year for the last 3, your insurance premiums will surely cost more. I don't know your age but if you're under 25, you may get sticker shock. My 22 year old pays over four grand a year for insurance on his 2003 Explorer.

My advice to you is that living out here isn't cheap. Unless you know you're making a ton of money you'd be better off staying where you are. If I could come back to Winnipeg, I would. But my life is here now as we've been gone too long. My wife & i have jobs, a mortgage, my oldest son lives here who just got married.

[Fraser]

I'm 29 and I haven't had a speeding ticket every year but every 3 years or so since 16.  I think my driver safety rating is essentially neutral. I make 70 to 80 k right now and expect a job could go one of two way, similar money as right now or a bit of a paycut but good experience that would lead to more cash in a couple years

[Mr Dee]

Two words.

 

Fire Mack. No, I mean....Fraser Valley

[iso_55]

Always the best to come check things out to get a feel for Calgary. I was an insurance adjuster from Winnipeg, working in Thompson when I had a chance to come to Calgary in 1990 & work for a company here in claims. Housing prices & the size of the two cities were similar back then. Houses back then were about 40-$50,000 more here than in Winnipeg. We bought our first home here in Calgary in 1990. Tweleve hundred sq ft bungalow for $120,000. The city has been good to us. But we got here a decade before the last big boom.

[Brandon]

All I know from my few moves is that if you want to raise a family and want to own a bigger house... then Winnipeg is by far the best place to go.   

 

Living out East I found most people to be career oriented,  keep to themselves quite a bit ,   not a lot of excitement/action ,  mostly good if you're focus on your career and not much else.  

 

BC is gorgeous, fantastic if you're into a more active lifestyle,   a lot more laid back then out East,  seem to have a consistently good football team,  can be pricey depending on where exactly you want to live.  

 

Calgary has way to many Rider fans so therefore it's redneck central,   lot more sociable community then in Ontario ,   lots more fun in town,   bizarre weather patterns,   a bit pricier but still reasonable.....

 

Winnipeg -  Best looking ladies by far in Canada,  cheapest cost of living  ,   most restaurants per capita in Canada..... 

 

 

I'm hoping the CONS you listed were written in jest....   to not live in Calgary because you hate Country Music is hilarious if you're being honest. 

[iso_55]

Country is big here but to be honest, I was never into country & I don't find it rammed down my throat. There are good country bars & good rock bars, jazz, etc. here in Calgary. I have always found the people here to be stand offish. Not easy to make friends. People are career oriented & the pace of life here is  much faster than Winnipeg. Housing & rent is much pricier than Winnipeg. Not just a little & if you were going to own a home here without a second income it'll be tough. Like i said, unless you make big bucks. But lots of job opportunities here so come out, check things out & go from there.

[TBURGESS]

I've lived in both Calgary and Vancouver.  
 

Calgary is more like Winnipeg.

 

Cheaper than Vancouver, and you will NEED a car to get around.  You'll be able to mostly afford to live your 'Winnipeg lifestyle' other than going out to the lake in the summer.  Restaurants are much like Winnipeg's and no PST is a big advantage.  The country thing it highly overdone during Stampede and there are other music options.  Cold winters with some Chinooks to warm things up (If you suffer from migraines you will get a doozy every time).  Ski in Banff.  A little hard to make friends, but everyone is your friend during Stampede.  Way better sports town than Vancouver.

 

Vancouver isn't anything like Winnipeg.  

 

The best way to live here is to give up your 'Winnipeg lifestyle' and move into a small condo close to downtown.  You don't go out to the lake in the summer, you walk to the beach.  You don't drive to a restaurant or bar, you walk there and stumble home.  The city is built with small neighbourhoods, each with most everything you need within walking/biking distance.  Any further and you take the Skytrain or the Seabus.  Lots of downtown folks give up their cars and use 'Cars to Go' when they need one for an afternoon.  

Restaurants are way BETTER than either Winnipeg or Calgary.  Every conceivable type of food is available in most neighbourhoods.  Cheap?  Nope.  Taxes are high as are fees and especially real estate.  Winters are wet, but you don't have to shovel it and you can get rid of all your winter gear unless you want to go home for Christmas.  You can ski on the north shore or take the train/bus/Rental Car up to Whistler.  

Vancouver is all about being outdoors.  Everyone here is from somewhere else, so it's easier to make friends, especially if you sign up to play team sports.  If you are interested in looking at the downtown neighbourhoods check out my website: http://terryburgess.ca/.  I'd suggest the West End (close to beaches and restaurants (Also Pride central so avoid if that bothers you)), Yaletown (Aka Yuppietown lots of restaurants/bars) , or Kitsilano (Beach lifestyle to see and be seen) for 20 somethings.  BTW: The hippies moved out of Vancouver years ago (other than the Profs at UBC).  You'll find them on Salt Spring Island now.

[iso_55]

Terry, how do people afford homes in the Lower Mainland with prices so high?

[TBURGESS]

Terry, how do people afford homes in the Lower Mainland with prices so high?

Lots don't so they rent.  Once you can afford to get into the market, you start small and work your way up.  It's not like the Peg where prices only rise slightly year over year.  It's even better than the price bumps in Calgary, so your home becomes an investment that you don't pay taxes on the gains.

 

You have to change your mindset to live out here.  Folks who try to recreate their prairie existence are the one's that end up going back 'home'.  Those who 'buy in' to the Vancouver way of life end up loving it.  

[17to85]

Lots don't so they rent.  Once you can afford to get into the market, you start small and work your way up.  It's not like the Peg where prices only rise slightly year over year.  It's even better than the price bumps in Calgary, so your home becomes an investment that you don't pay taxes on the gains.

 

You have to change your mindset to live out here.  Folks who try to recreate their prairie existence are the one's that end up going back 'home'.  Those who 'buy in' to the Vancouver way of life end up loving it.  

until the bubble bursts on them and that investment is a loss. 

[bluto]

First of all, congrats on doing that program and increasing your potential earnings and expanding your own marketability. Good on ya.

 

Toronto would be a big culture shock for a young man from Winnipeg (more on this in a bit). Especially if you're planning on living in a central area. The downtown core of Toronto proper is a very mixed bag of what you can manage to afford (ie: apartment types will range from sub'ing someone's condo, to 100 year old 3 story brick houses that have been converted to appartments, to the basic highrise appartment complexes). If you're anywhere down there you'll easily be able to get where you need to go by getting a TTC Metropass every month. If you plan on living outside of the core, keep your car. i repeat: keep your car.

 

Like what Terry said about Vancouver, Toronto is made up of many self contained areas where people live and work and each has it's own identity. The fact that TO is also the most poly-ethnic city on earth adds to that bigtime.

 

a few good things you likely already know:

- jobwise, there will be 100 companies of the type that you apply to. if you're good at networking, you'll be able to advance and get ahead by keeping your ear to the ground and finding the next great opportunity at company X.

- from a culture standpoint, we have everything. really. aside from mountains and an ocean, you really can't list anything that anyone would want to see or do that Toronto doesn't have at least one grandiose version of it.

- restaurant and club wise, we have a selection that is of the highest calibre in the world. and the ones that are hidden-gems in the various neighborhoods are often better than the fancy ones in TorontoLife magazine.

 

a few drawbacks that you may not:

- a-type personality as a lifestyle: the regular pace of business here is go-go-go, either make food or be food... but to us it's normal. i only know that we are seen this way by others in the rest of the country after years of having dealt with people from most provinces. if you don't do well with pedal-to-the-metal, you may find that Vancouver is more your bag.

- traffic. yeah, i know that everywhere has rush hour. but ours is a special circle of Dante's Hell all of its own. so do try to live near work if you can.

- even if you don't think that you're a good match culturewise with Van or Calg (Hippie or Cowboy), trust me on this, you may not be anywhere near a match for too-cool-for-school TO. this is a youth culture(by that i mean under 35) that prides itself on being impressed by nothing except how cool they themselves are. we have the coldest women in the western world. this is not hyperbole, go to any forum where men talk about dating/game strategy and you'll see that Toronto is routinely singled out as the most difficult place in the western world to pick up. if you think that you're great at approaching people socially, okay, maybe this won't be an issue... but the vast majority of westerners i've met who come here are left reeling by the perceived frigidness (and sometimes hostility)of folks here. i don't want to go on about this but i'm willing to discuss this more via PM as one of the businesses i used to own was directly in this field.

 

and about Terry's comments, he's right that Winnipeggers are closer to Calgarians in style than Vancouverites... but he misses the point a bit (in a harmless, funny way) when he says that the hippies don't live in Vancouver anymore... it's true that proper hippies aren't really the people who populate modern Vancouver... but... when we in Toronto have to do business with Vancouver, we dread talking to the laid-back-wavy-gravy types (by comparison to a Torontonian) that have no respect for deadlines or fixed appointments... mind you... they likely put down the phone with me and tell the guy next to them that the a-hole in Toronto needs to lighten-up man...

 

i don't know what else to say in terms of generalities... ask me anything you like about various parts of town or if i know of certain companies (i do a lot of Biz to Biz work, so i may know some ppl). happy to help and good luck.

[bluto]

Lots don't so they rent.  Once you can afford to get into the market, you start small and work your way up.  It's not like the Peg where prices only rise slightly year over year.  It's even better than the price bumps in Calgary, so your home becomes an investment that you don't pay taxes on the gains.

 

You have to change your mindset to live out here.  Folks who try to recreate their prairie existence are the one's that end up going back 'home'.  Those who 'buy in' to the Vancouver way of life end up loving it.  

 

spoken just like my R.E.A. (a cool guy who now sits in my section at games.) he's never gotten me less than 98.9% on my listings or had me pay more than 94.5% of one.

[iso_55]

Lots don't so they rent.  Once you can afford to get into the market, you start small and work your way up.  It's not like the Peg where prices only rise slightly year over year.  It's even better than the price bumps in Calgary, so your home becomes an investment that you don't pay taxes on the gains.

 

You have to change your mindset to live out here.  Folks who try to recreate their prairie existence are the one's that end up going back 'home'.  Those who 'buy in' to the Vancouver way of life end up loving it.  

I had a chance to move out from Calgary to Vancouver in 1993. I actually got a job offer from then BC Tel (now Telus). I decided to check out the housing prices on the Lower Mainland & was absolutely  shocked so I ended up turning it down & staying put. With 2 kids & the house we owned here at the time, no way were my wife & I going to go from owning a house in Calgary to a rental situation out there. Having said that, Vancouver is a beautiful place.

[iso_55]

spoken just like my R.E.A. (a cool guy who now sits in my section at games.) he's never gotten me less than 98.9% on my listings or had me pay more than 94.5% of one.

Give us your take on the GTA, Bluto as we've heard fromme in Calgary & TBurg on the West Coast.

[iso_55]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/business/real-estate/Competitive+rental+market+about+tougher+with+post+secondary+students+coming/8760625/story.html

[Mr Dee]

Give us your take on the GTA, Bluto as we've heard fromme in Calgary & TBurg on the West Coast.

 

 

Ah, Iso....look up, look way way up

[bluto]

Give us your take on the GTA, Bluto as we've heard fromme in Calgary & TBurg on the West Coast.

 

look up a few posts 

[17to85]

a lot of the issues with renting closer to down town calgary are being made worse with all the places damaged by flooding. I was always able to find something that wasn't too bad to rent before I bought my house but I never tried to live that close to the core and I was never on my own either so if you're splitting rent it's not so bad. 

 

I am going to take offense to calgary being labeled as cowboy town too, it's really not, there's far more douchebags than cowboys around. 

[bluto]

Ah, Iso....look up, look way way up

 

[Mr Dee]

You got it....I thought it was more in Iso's era.

[bluto]

You got it....I thought it was more in Iso's era.

 

that show spanned quite a few eras.

[TBURGESS]

and about Terry's comments, he's right that Winnipeggers are closer to Calgarians in style than Vancouverites... but he misses the point a bit (in a harmless, funny way) when he says that the hippies don't live in Vancouver anymore... it's true that proper hippies aren't really the people who populate modern Vancouver... but... when we in Toronto have to do business with Vancouver, we dread talking to the laid-back-wavy-gravy types (by comparison to a Torontonian) that have no respect for deadlines or fixed appointments... mind you... they likely put down the phone with me and tell the guy next to them that the a-hole in Toronto needs to lighten-up man...

I've spent lots of time in TO for work and fun and I agree with most of what you're saying.

 

I'll bet there are more big companies in TO than anywhere else in the country.  Vancouver has many more smaller companies.

 

Toronto is work work work.  Calgary is Work Hard, Play Hard.  Vancouver is Work hard enough to afford what you need then forget about work.  

 

When we in Vancouver do business with the 'center of the earth', we always wonder why they want to get everything done by the end of the day.  Most assume it's because they can't remember what they said the next day.  Oh yah... we do roll our eyes.  Bluto... If you want to do business with Vancouverites,   Chill a bit and take things a little slower and don't call meetings at 9:00 AM eastern time, cuz we ain't getting to the office for no 6:00 AM meetings. 

[bluto]

I've spent lots of time in TO for work and fun and I agree with most of what you're saying.

 

I'll bet there are more big companies in TO than anywhere else in the country.  Vancouver has many more smaller companies.

 

Toronto is work work work.  Calgary is Work Hard, Play Hard.  Vancouver is Work hard enough to afford what you need then forget about work.  

 

When we in Vancouver do business with the 'center of the earth', we always wonder why they want to get everything done by the end of the day.  Most assume it's because they can't remember what they said the next day.  Oh yah... we do roll our eyes.  Bluto... If you want to do business with Vancouverites,   Chill a bit and take things a little slower and don't call meetings at 9:00 AM eastern time, cuz we ain't getting to the office for no 6:00 AM meetings. 

 

fine... i'll wait till 9:30 then... i'm usually on coffee #2 by then anyway.

[cptkirk]

If you want a quick snapshot of how much provincial income taxes are in each of the province - take a look here:

 

http://www.pwc.com/ca/en/tax/publications/pwc-facts-figures-2013-06-en.pdf (page 9 of the PDF)

 

BC and AB are quite a bit cheaper than MB which may offset some of your housing.