Should The CFL Impose Cap Limits On Amount Of Flags Officials Can Throw?

[Mr Dee]

I don't want to sound rude or anything but you should really go out to a minor league football game, or even a touch football game….and try reffing.

That would put everything, regarding being a ref, in a different perspective for you.

[Goalie]

No to the first part, No because sometimes teams need penalties called against them, lots of iffy calls last night in the bomber game sure but most/ 98 percent of them were legit and that call is made every time. Yes to the second part but... with an *. that * being if you called one penalty against one team and don't call it against the other... then perhaps a fine should occur. Bomber game is an example, they called PI vs bucknor on Johnson, they didn't call it on denmark in the endzone though, o'shea had to challenge, if you call one, call the other, if not... consequences need to happen. 

[iso_55]

I say yes, and I say that because of this.  Now I was happy amidst all of the penalties that the bombers came out on top, who wouldn't be.  But these officials have gotta be held accountable for that inexcusable and excessive drag they put on that game with ridiculous flags, half of which had no legitimacy to them.  I mean, some games I know the players out there will commit more penalties than others, but I have never in all my time of watching the CFL, seen a game where you could just about color the whole field red with how many times that flag was dropped, and I have come to hate those kind of games where you nearly come to anticipate a flag on almost every play, and last night became one of them.  I am personally blaming the officials and Mark Cohon for this, and Chris Schultz was right for calling out this game for going too slow paced.

 

I've come to expect football games to be right about 3 hours long, give or take a serious situation such as an injury or an act of God on the stadium, last night's game, those idiot referees took that 20 second play clock and stretched it into 3 minutes between plays about.  That should never happen in football.

 

I say solve that problem with one of two ways.

 

First, put a limit on how many flags the officials collectively are allowed to throw.  If they exceed that, the whole crew gets slapped with a million dollar fine for obstructing the game progress.  That way they learn to only call blatant penalties, and cannot call tacky ones.

 

Or second, if it happens again, have the league commission review all the penalties in the game, and start fining them individually for every tacky call they make, so that way they get a message sent that these so-called roughing penalties that happen are not to be flagged and players are not to be punished for tough hits they make.  NFL fans have been seeing this happen in their league and getting upset at flags and fines on players for doing this, and I think the CFL needs to make sure they don't go that route either.

 

And finally, get rid of that stupid pass interference challenge rule, it does nothing to make sure the call gets right, it's a disgrace to football, makes for lazy or disgruntled officials, and ruins the pace of the game.  ****** sick of it already.

You do realize that without the PI Challenge on the Denmark play in the end zone, we probably would have lost the  game? No, keep it.

[iso_55]

I don't want to sound rude or anything but you should really go out to a minor league football game, or even a touch football game….and try reffing.

That would put everything, regarding being a ref, in a different perspective for you.

Or try losing a game we should have won like I did as a head coach in the playoffs a decade ago. I failed to manage the clock better than I could have in the final 2 minutes. We were ahead by 4 points in the Calgary Bantam Semi Finals in 2005 in the final minute or so of the 4th quarter. I was so caught up in the game calling offensive plays that I never told our qb to watch the clock & take every second off before snapping the ball. On third down, we failed to get a first down, left the other team with 25 seconds on the clock from their 5 yard line & two long pass plays later they're in the end zone going to the league final & we're going home. Unbelievable. Parents blamed the DC for the loss & were quite vocal in their displeasure after the game & at our AGM a few months later. I told my defensive coordinator after the game that the loss was on me for not burning those 25 seconds after the ref blew the play in when we had the ball. And I said it again to the idiot parents over the mic that were still bitching about it 4 months later. It's always easy sitting in front of a television yelling, "What's he doing???" It's quite another being on the sidelines or on the field in the heat of the moment as a player, coach or ref. There's pressure to win even at the community level in football. In any team sport. We screw up sometimes.

[17to85]

 

I don't want to sound rude or anything but you should really go out to a minor league football game, or even a touch football game….and try reffing.

That would put everything, regarding being a ref, in a different perspective for you.

Or try losing a game we should have won like I did as a head coach in the playoffs a decade ago. I failed to manage the clock better than I could have in the final 2 minutes. We were ahead by 4 points in the Calgary Bantam Semi Finals in 2005 in the final minute or so of the 4th quarter. I was so caught up in the game calling offensive plays that I never told our qb to watch the clock & take every second off before snapping the ball. On third down, we failed to get a first down, left the other team with 25 seconds on the clock from their 5 yard line & two long pass plays later they're in the end zone going to the league final & we're going home. Unbelievable. Parents blamed the DC for the loss & were quite vocal in their displeasure after the game & at our AGM a few months later. I told my defensive coordinator after the game that the loss was on me for not burning those 25 seconds after the ref blew the play in when we had the ball. And I said it again to the idiot parents over the mic that were still bitching about it 4 months later. It's always easy sitting in front of a television yelling, "What's he doing???" It's quite another being on the sidelines or on the field in the heat of the moment as a player, coach or ref. There's pressure to win even at the community level in football. In any team sport. We screw up sometimes.

 

God forbid they blame the players who failed to make a play on defence to stop them. 

[Mr Dee]

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[road griller]

Well, people who get mad at volunteer coaches need to get a life. I have coached different sports for many years, although I never did make a mistake I certainly do not care when others do. As long as the kids are having fun and learning. They need how to lose as well as win.

These so called "pros" need to do there job not much room for " mistakes"

Is it ok for a roofing company to make a mistake? Or the person who fixes your car or laid carpet. Do you expect perfection or do you just say " it's ok if it a bit short I will just put a line of plants there"

People who make those mistakes soon find themselves out of work just like HC's and same should be for these "pro" refs. This weekend was brutal ,time to cull the herd or spend some money and train the ones we have if we are going to stick with Dollarama model.

[Atomic]

Hard cap at 20 penalties per game.  Then The Purge commences.

[TBieber]

18 penalties was the average last year... league has told them to crack down on blows to the head.

 

What they're trying to do makes absolute sense, but they need to have a little more perspective in doing so.

[Adrenaline_x]

This is like blaming the availability of alcohol on alcoholics drinking.

If the players weren't holding, tripping interfering, face masking, taking head shots or hitting after the whistle the refs wouldn't be throwing their flags. The refs aren't at fault. The players are for breaking the rules. Play a clean game and the flags will stop falling.

[road griller]

A penalty is a penalty and should be called but when a Q B sees a person at the last second and ducks causing a helmet to helmet the flag should not be thrown. It was the Q B who caused it, maybe flag them?

Or when a long snapper runs down the field and tackles the ball carrier then gets 15 yards. These mistakes are killing the league and it has been going on for years. Get someone in who can clean it up not just a retread guy from the CFL who is stuck in the same culture of sucking.

[LeBird]

Maybe the question should be: Should the coaches be penalized for failing to discipline their players? Holding and illegal blocks are starting to hurt us again. I don't like penalties but if they are not called the game will become a gladiator sport. In the first game Toronto would have been a lot closer if they had played disciplined football. That PI on the Denmark play Friday might have cost Montreal the game. 

 

If the teams are willing to let their guys do as they please than don't blame the refs if it causes a loss.  Sooner or later the message might get through. My feeling is even the notion of a cap is a non starter.

 

Like everyone else I hate the time that is wasted every time a penalty is called.

[iso_55]

 

 

I don't want to sound rude or anything but you should really go out to a minor league football game, or even a touch football game….and try reffing.

That would put everything, regarding being a ref, in a different perspective for you.

Or try losing a game we should have won like I did as a head coach in the playoffs a decade ago. I failed to manage the clock better than I could have in the final 2 minutes. We were ahead by 4 points in the Calgary Bantam Semi Finals in 2005 in the final minute or so of the 4th quarter. I was so caught up in the game calling offensive plays that I never told our qb to watch the clock & take every second off before snapping the ball. On third down, we failed to get a first down, left the other team with 25 seconds on the clock from their 5 yard line & two long pass plays later they're in the end zone going to the league final & we're going home. Unbelievable. Parents blamed the DC for the loss & were quite vocal in their displeasure after the game & at our AGM a few months later. I told my defensive coordinator after the game that the loss was on me for not burning those 25 seconds after the ref blew the play in when we had the ball. And I said it again to the idiot parents over the mic that were still bitching about it 4 months later. It's always easy sitting in front of a television yelling, "What's he doing???" It's quite another being on the sidelines or on the field in the heat of the moment as a player, coach or ref. There's pressure to win even at the community level in football. In any team sport. We screw up sometimes.

 

God forbid they blame the players who failed to make a play on defence to stop them. 

 

I needed to take the heat for this one as head coach. If I had done my job & managed the play clock his defense never would have been on the field as time would have expired. My experience reminded me so much of the heat LaPo took with some of his sideline decisions that cost us games in 2010. While he was a pro coach & I'm not, I certainly understood how he got caught up with things on the sidelines in the final few minutes of a closely fought game. If he never was a HC before I can see how things can happen as he was inexperienced. The only knock regarding LaPo (who should know better) who let situations get the better of him is that he needed to have better line of communications by letting the assistants help him or offer advice. Or practice different scenarios on the sidelines to be better prepared.

The refs need to be better prepared, better paid & full time. Full time means they will be able to be better trained all year, especially in the of season.

[17to85]

 

 

 

I don't want to sound rude or anything but you should really go out to a minor league football game, or even a touch football game….and try reffing.

That would put everything, regarding being a ref, in a different perspective for you.

Or try losing a game we should have won like I did as a head coach in the playoffs a decade ago. I failed to manage the clock better than I could have in the final 2 minutes. We were ahead by 4 points in the Calgary Bantam Semi Finals in 2005 in the final minute or so of the 4th quarter. I was so caught up in the game calling offensive plays that I never told our qb to watch the clock & take every second off before snapping the ball. On third down, we failed to get a first down, left the other team with 25 seconds on the clock from their 5 yard line & two long pass plays later they're in the end zone going to the league final & we're going home. Unbelievable. Parents blamed the DC for the loss & were quite vocal in their displeasure after the game & at our AGM a few months later. I told my defensive coordinator after the game that the loss was on me for not burning those 25 seconds after the ref blew the play in when we had the ball. And I said it again to the idiot parents over the mic that were still bitching about it 4 months later. It's always easy sitting in front of a television yelling, "What's he doing???" It's quite another being on the sidelines or on the field in the heat of the moment as a player, coach or ref. There's pressure to win even at the community level in football. In any team sport. We screw up sometimes.

 

God forbid they blame the players who failed to make a play on defence to stop them. 

 

I needed to take the heat for this one as head coach. If I had done my job & managed the play clock his defense never would have been on the field as time would have expired.

 

That's all well and good but sports still ultimately come down to the guys on the field making more plays than the other team.I understand why you feel the need to take the blame on yourself, that's coaching 101 but in the end it's the players that win and lose games. It reveals a lot about the character of the parents when they look for people to blame other than their own kids who got beat. Make a stop on defence it doesn't matter about the clock or whatever the defensive coordinator calls. People need to learn how to deal with losing better. 

[iso_55]

 

 

 

 

I don't want to sound rude or anything but you should really go out to a minor league football game, or even a touch football game….and try reffing.

That would put everything, regarding being a ref, in a different perspective for you.

Or try losing a game we should have won like I did as a head coach in the playoffs a decade ago. I failed to manage the clock better than I could have in the final 2 minutes. We were ahead by 4 points in the Calgary Bantam Semi Finals in 2005 in the final minute or so of the 4th quarter. I was so caught up in the game calling offensive plays that I never told our qb to watch the clock & take every second off before snapping the ball. On third down, we failed to get a first down, left the other team with 25 seconds on the clock from their 5 yard line & two long pass plays later they're in the end zone going to the league final & we're going home. Unbelievable. Parents blamed the DC for the loss & were quite vocal in their displeasure after the game & at our AGM a few months later. I told my defensive coordinator after the game that the loss was on me for not burning those 25 seconds after the ref blew the play in when we had the ball. And I said it again to the idiot parents over the mic that were still bitching about it 4 months later. It's always easy sitting in front of a television yelling, "What's he doing???" It's quite another being on the sidelines or on the field in the heat of the moment as a player, coach or ref. There's pressure to win even at the community level in football. In any team sport. We screw up sometimes.

 

God forbid they blame the players who failed to make a play on defence to stop them. 

 

I needed to take the heat for this one as head coach. If I had done my job & managed the play clock his defense never would have been on the field as time would have expired.

 

That's all well and good but sports still ultimately come down to the guys on the field making more plays than the other team.I understand why you feel the need to take the blame on yourself, that's coaching 101 but in the end it's the players that win and lose games. It reveals a lot about the character of the parents when they look for people to blame other than their own kids who got beat. Make a stop on defence it doesn't matter about the clock or whatever the defensive coordinator calls. People need to learn how to deal with losing better. 

 

I called plays for a number of years. At first it bothered me but as the seasons wore on, I'd just chuckle to myself... When we won, the parents of whatever team I coached would come over & congratulate me on calling a great game. When we lost, no parent ever came up & said good game. You'll win next time. I was totally ignored.  

[Tracker]

I cannot recall a week where there have been so many flags thrown. Some were marginal calls but most were deserved, and it looks like nobody had a training camp. The two good, close games (Wpg-Montreal and BC-Sask) were exciting to watch but the penalty call delays really detracted.

[Mr Dee]

The preponderance of flags is only overshadowed by the preponderance of complaints about the preponderance of flags.

[bearpants]

I think the Billy Madison quote perfectly sums up this debate...

[USABomberfan]

LeBird, on 13 Jul 2014 - 1:00 PM, said:

Maybe the question should be: Should the coaches be penalized for failing to discipline their players? Holding and illegal blocks are starting to hurt us again. I don't like penalties but if they are not called the game will become a gladiator sport. In the first game Toronto would have been a lot closer if they had played disciplined football. That PI on the Denmark play Friday might have cost Montreal the game. 

 

If the teams are willing to let their guys do as they please than don't blame the refs if it causes a loss.  Sooner or later the message might get through. My feeling is even the notion of a cap is a non starter.

 

Like everyone else I hate the time that is wasted every time a penalty is called.

 

Those happen on virtually every play, which is why I am saying there should be a cap on the amount of flags thrown in a game.  Only blatant holding penalties, blocks in back, and pass interference calls should be made, which is the way it was always done in the past, and the games went just fine, there were no flags being thrown every other play, and you didn't see teams get their momentum stifled and the crooked zebras get in the way of the game.

 

Also this so called problem of head targeting is grossly exaggerated.  Head targeting to Mark Cohon or somebody apparently means if the defensive lineman causes the QB to hit the turf at all, it's a head targeting.  That's just bullshit.  The way that penalty is going is starting to drive me nuts, and it's starting to make me want to completely eliminate the unnecessary roughness penalty altogether.  It shouldn't even be called that, the refs should just outright say, "defensive lineman doing his job, number ___, 15 yard penalty automatic first down".  This is how ridiculous it is getting.

 

And I don't care what anyone else thinks about this.  Get rid of this whole video review system.  It was never used in football up until this decade and there were never any problems with scoring plays, turnovers, or pass interference being questioned.  And I argue that all it has done is just made for irresponsible lazy officiating these days.  The officiating was high quality and refs actually put in better efforts to do their jobs right back in the 90s, but these days its turned into a rag fest out there.  I say football needs to return back to the 80s and 90s way of doing things so the refs actually care about doing their jobs right again and quit turning every little block, contact with a WR, or hit to a QB into a penalty, it needs to stop at once.

[Jacquie]

Those happen on virtually every play, which is why I am saying there should be a cap on the amount of flags thrown in a game.  Only blatant holding penalties, blocks in back, and pass interference calls should be made, which is the way it was always done in the past, and the games went just fine, there were no flags being thrown every other play, and you didn't see teams get their momentum stifled and the crooked zebras get in the way of the game.

 

Also this so called problem of head targeting is grossly exaggerated.  Head targeting to Mark Cohon or somebody apparently means if the defensive lineman causes the QB to hit the turf at all, it's a head targeting.  That's just bullshit.  The way that penalty is going is starting to drive me nuts, and it's starting to make me want to completely eliminate the unnecessary roughness penalty altogether.  It shouldn't even be called that, the refs should just outright say, "defensive lineman doing his job, number ___, 15 yard penalty automatic first down".  This is how ridiculous it is getting.

 

And I don't care what anyone else thinks about this.  Get rid of this whole video review system.  It was never used in football up until this decade and there were never any problems with scoring plays, turnovers, or pass interference being questioned.  And I argue that all it has done is just made for irresponsible lazy officiating these days.  The officiating was high quality and refs actually put in better efforts to do their jobs right back in the 90s, but these days its turned into a rag fest out there.  I say football needs to return back to the 80s and 90s way of doing things so the refs actually care about doing their jobs right again and quit turning every little block, contact with a WR, or hit to a QB into a penalty, it needs to stop at once.

 

I must have imagined the countless number of posts at various message forums complaining about non-calls by the officials in the past. I also must have imagined all of those posts complaining about roughing the passer calls not being made. And if you think no one questioned calls before video review, you're dreaming.

[SPuDS]

PRISON RULES!! ANARCHY!! LET THEIR BE BLOOOD!!

[iso_55]

Nah, the PI review is a good thing. It's here to stay. It proved itself vs the Bombers twice. I know at some point we'll be on the other end of a call but I'd rather have that then lose a game because of a bad PI call that wasn't or a PI call that should have been made. 

[Jpan85]

It's not the amount of calls but they call everything then miss the most obvious calls

[SPuDS]

I swear the cfl needs to bring in some actual refs (maybe NCAA or another well organized league) and coach em up on cfl rules and pay me properly...

Until we do something (reviews are a step in the right direction) we will always be discussing this..

[iso_55]

It's not the amount of calls but they call everything then miss the most obvious calls

Boggles the mind the crap they call & then miss an obvious penalty. Happens all the time.