Joe Mack's Legacy

[IC Khari]

Posted this at the other site ...

 

... moving forward from here what do you guys think? Mack did some things very well and others he stunk at. What will the legacy be in the next few years of his tenure here?

[RagingIce]

Considering our previous GM, I gotta go with the second option.

[Fraser]

hopefully swiston pencer Etienne muamba and other young cdns will stick around and prosper

[Zontar]

From a non- bomber fan p.o. v......

 

over the years Mack was overly praised for only doing competent things any GM should be doing anyway but also was unfairly blamed for things that were mostly out of any GMs hands.

 

Tough to build a CFL team with such a huge question mark at QB. Obstacle that couldnt be overcome.

[Jimmy Pop]

I was a Mack supporter for some time - right up until this offseason, actually. When we decided to stick with Buck as #1 going into this year I smelt trouble.

 

I had to vote the futility option. Bottom line, as the cliche goes, this is a results-driven job. 21-39 over his tenure is downright brutal, even worse when you take away the 2 great months of football in 2011...where many thought we were playing above our heads. 

[NotoriousBIG]

Mack is leaving the team in a better place than what he started with. 

 

I also appreciate that he never embarrassed the organization or went all Tillman/Kelly. 

 

Seems like a decent guy. Just not cut out to be a CFL GM. 

[BBlink]

Looking at Fraser's list of draft picks, with the exception of Muamba, Mack has always gone for potential rather than what can help us now.  Sometimes going off the board, sometimes not as much.  In the end Mack needed to do more for us *right now* than look towards what a player will do for us 4 years down the line.

 

Now I know I've argued before about it and have been told that there is no such thing as a safe draft, so I'll digress a little bit, but it also goes that it was Mack's philosophy to build our team from within and wait for players to get better, rather than going out and getting a sure thing.

 

You can also argue that the "sure thing" 's are not always the best choice.  But I think it is the attitude of the entire organization that we need to be striving to be better *right now*, and that will trickle down to the attitude's of the coaches and players as well.  There needs to be a confidence among players that they have been assembled to be a Grey Cup winner, not a Grey Cup winner a couple years from now.  Maybe the lack of that ideology is what is really hurting us and why a change was necessary.

 

Also a quarterback, we need a quarterback.

[17to85]

Looking at Fraser's list of draft picks, with the exception of Muamba, Mack has always gone for potential rather than what can help us now.  Sometimes going off the board, sometimes not as much.  In the end Mack needed to do more for us *right now* than look towards what a player will do for us 4 years down the line.

 

Now I know I've argued before about it and have been told that there is no such thing as a safe draft, so I'll digress a little bit, but it also goes that it was Mack's philosophy to build our team from within and wait for players to get better, rather than going out and getting a sure thing.

 

You can also argue that the "sure thing" 's are not always the best choice.  But I think it is the attitude of the entire organization that we need to be striving to be better *right now*, and that will trickle down to the attitude's of the coaches and players as well.  There needs to be a confidence among players that they have been assembled to be a Grey Cup winner, not a Grey Cup winner a couple years from now.  Maybe the lack of that ideology is what is really hurting us and why a change was necessary.

 

Also a quarterback, we need a quarterback.

but even that muamba pick was a potential pick rather than the safest right now pick. The o-linemen was considered the safe and smart pick. Hell even looking at the Etienne pick, Parker was considered a better receiver pick than Etienne but you'd be hard pressed to say right now that it's farther apart than it is. Cory Watson was considered a right now pick when Mack took him as well and it still took some time for him to become any sort of impact player. People just have this unreasonable expectations about how quickly draft picks are ready. I think part of this is because the only time Taman actually kept his first round draft pick they wound up with Labatte who stepped in right away and was real good, but that draft was unusual with how many quality o-linemen it had. 

[Zontar]

Wasnt Mack's forte imports and he left the CDN stuff to others ?

[17to85]

Wasnt Mack's forte imports and he left the CDN stuff to others ?

no not really, they always had someone as a draft coordinator helping but mack still had the final say. For example, there's talk that Walters (AGM and NI guy) apparently wanted Edem while Mack wanted Mulumba. 

[pigseye]

Joe Mack's legacy.......stubborn old fart who wouldn't change his way of doing things even at the cost of his job.

[17to85]

The actual legacy will be more like: re-built team depth but couldn't hire a good coach to save his job.

[Noeller]

Joe Mack was building this team for long term sustainability right down to the bitter end. He took on a dirty job that most couldn't stomach, and left this team in WAY better shape than it shoulda been considering what Kelly did to it. Mack kept draft picks and did the best he could with em to build for the future. I respect the hell outta that man for sticking to his guns and always doing things his way. That's a man's man right there. He's now taken the bullet for what I believe is the long term betterment of this franchise.

[iso_55]

No qb that will be his main legacy. And OL problems. Refusal to sign FA's from other teams. Decent draft record but not enough.

[pigseye]

The actual legacy will be more like: re-built team depth but couldn't hire a good coach to save his job.

 

Basically a scout in over his head.

[17to85]

No qb that will be his main legacy. And OL problems. Refusal to sign FA's from other teams. Decent draft record but not enough.

but lets say that Goltz goes on to be this teams starting qb for the next number of years and swiston and pencer wind up being solid starters on the o-line.... would it then not stand to reason that the guy actually knew what he was doing? 

[Mr Dee]

Joe Mack was building this team for long term sustainability right down to the bitter end. He took on a dirty job that most couldn't stomach, and left this team in WAY better shape than it shoulda been considering what Kelly did to it. Mack kept draft picks and did the best he could with em to build for the future. I respect the hell outta that man for sticking to his guns and always doing things his way. That's a man's man right there. He's now taken the bullet for what I believe is the long term betterment of this franchise.

 

You have to admire his dedication and unfailing desire to build a team for the long term .

He truly seemed to love the Bombers and it must kill him not to have found 'that' QB and for that matter 'that' coach.

[iso_55]

Mack drafted but didn't do the other things needed like signing CFL FA's that would have bridged the time from when a draft pick was a rookie to the point in a couple of years where he could step in & take over. All we ever heard was that Mack wasn't interested in this player or that player. He sat on his hands almost the entire time he was here. Few trade as well..

[Brandon]

Mack drafted but didn't do the other things needed like signing CFL FA's that would have bridged the time from when a draft pick was a rookie to the point in a couple of years where he could step in & take over. All we ever heard was that Mack wasn't interested in this player or that player. He sat on his hands almost the entire time he was here. Few trade as well..

Qft!

I think a few fa signings would of gone really far the team.

[sweep the leg]

but lets say that Goltz goes on to be this teams starting qb for the next number of years and swiston and pencer wind up being solid starters on the o-line.... would it then not stand to reason that the guy actually knew what he was doing? 

It would to a degree. As it stands right now though I agree with Iso's post. He didn't do enough to make the team competitive while we waited for these young guys to emerge.

[17to85]

It would to a degree. As it stands right now though I agree with Iso's post. He didn't do enough to make the team competitive while we waited for these young guys to emerge.

but at what cost? Not like there was a lot in the cupboard to to work with in terms of making trades. Now sure we can bicker about the one or two free agents who were out there that could have been THAT guy but there was really only 1 or 2 people. 

[sweep the leg]

but at what cost? Not like there was a lot in the cupboard to to work with in terms of making trades. Now sure we can bicker about the one or two free agents who were out there that could have been THAT guy but there was really only 1 or 2 people. 

The cost of a qb trade & an OL or two in FA would have made us a much better team. That's all I think we needed to be a competitive team.

[iso_55]

but lets say that Goltz goes on to be this teams starting qb for the next number of years and swiston and pencer wind up being solid starters on the o-line.... would it then not stand to reason that the guy actually knew what he was doing? 

If Goltz does that then I'll change my opinion of Joe Mack. But that won't help Joe anymore, will it?

[Guest]

Considering that aisde form 2011 this team has been a disaster, you have to go with four years of futility.

[Blueandgold]

I remember people complaining when we picked Muamba over Scott Mitchell...