Arland Bruce sues CFL over concussions

[Mike]

 

Since this lawsuit is in Canada and not the States, if any damages are awarded, it won't be anywhere near what they could get in the states.

So, let's say Bruce wins & gets $5 million in damages that's a hit of over half a mill per team. If it's upwards of $10 to $20 mill, you do the math. More? The floodgates will open. Keep laughin', guys.

 

 

Who is laughing?

 

I'd love to actually have a serious debate with you about this because it's a very interesting discussion, but I'm not even going to bother because I know the minute I disagree with you (which I do) you're going to take it personal. I stumbled across an old CFL forum the other day and I saw posts of yours from as far back as 2002. How have you managed to make it 12+ years online without being able to figure out that just because someone disagrees with you, it doesn't mean they're attacking you personally.

[TBieber]

They could have pillows strapped to their heads and have the most precaution in the World and players would still sue because they see it as an opportunity.

[DR. CFL]

I hope this does go to court and Bruce is exposed for his questionable character leaving serious doubts as to the credibility of his claim. Someone made reference to the brick in the head.....fact....at least one paternity suit that originated in Winnipeg. He acquired an SUV while playing in Winnipeg bad failed to make any payment on it, the dealer was left to chase him. Hopefully he gets what he deserves.....nothing.

[HardCoreBlue]

http://theconcussionblog.com/2014/07/16/first-law-suit-filed-in-canada-over-concussions/

I'd like to hear what Matt Dunnigan's opinion is on this.

[HardCoreBlue]

I hope this does go to court and Bruce is exposed for his questionable character leaving serious doubts as to the credibility of his claim. Someone made reference to the brick in the head.....fact....at least one paternity suit that originated in Winnipeg. He acquired an SUV while playing in Winnipeg bad failed to make any payment on it, the dealer was left to chase him. Hopefully he gets what he deserves.....nothing.

My educated guess is that this won't have much bearing on the legitimacy of this specific claim.

[Adrenaline_x]

If HE was injured then HE should have not stepped out on to the field. 

 

Arguing that the team let him, and failed to protect him from himself is ******* stupid way to look at things.

 

Its very similar to people wanting our government to create laws to regulate drinking, drugs, having to wear your seatbelt etc.  Its a nanny state where the people expect the government to protect them from their own stupidity.  I don't care if you wear your seatbelt in the car.. But if you get mamed or killed because YOU CHOSE not to wear you seatbelt, thats YOUR issue.

 

Same for concussions.  As a player, you know the risks when you step on the feild. You know what can happen.  You know that when you are injured, playing through the injury can cause more injuries or cause more harm.

 

The league should counter sue for Bruce being an idiot and not alerting them to his belief that he was still hurt and instead decided to play through it.

 

I have no sympathy for him or others that cause their own outcomes and then complain someone should have protected them from themselves.

[TBURGESS]

Concussions are a real problem.  Putting players back in who still have concussion symptoms is also a problem, but... often the players themselves hide the symptoms so they can play.  IIRC, In the NFL suit some players admitted to 'gassing' the pre-season initial test, on the advice of their agents, so they wouldn't look impaired if the got a concussion.  ISO brought up the helmet issue.  In short, some if not most of the responsibility needs to lie with the players.

 

I'm not sure how much merit this particular suit has and I don't understand why they would sue every team and the CFL in general when it's one or two teams who caused the perceived problem.  Maybe the are hoping that other players get on board and it will it become a class action suit.  The biggest question is will this become 'The' president setting suit? 

[DR. CFL]

My point is that in any legal case anything that brings into question the character of a claimant is relevant. Like it or not agree or disagree it is a fact.

[17to85]

To me there is a big difference between a team telling a player to suck it up and play and a player deciding to play if they aren't feeling 100%. I can't see Bruce having been told to play if he was feeling effects, I can see him wanting to play. In my opinion that makes all the difference in the world. Concussion awareness is too high these days for teams to risk their players.

[Fatty Liver]

Concussions are a real problem.  Putting players back in who still have concussion symptoms is also a problem, but... often the players themselves hide the symptoms so they can play.  IIRC, In the NFL suit some players admitted to 'gassing' the pre-season initial test, on the advice of their agents, so they wouldn't look impaired if the got a concussion.  ISO brought up the helmet issue.  In short, some if not most of the responsibility needs to lie with the players.

 

I'm not sure how much merit this particular suit has and I don't understand why they would sue every team and the CFL in general when it's one or two teams who caused the perceived problem.  Maybe the are hoping that other players get on board and it will it become a class action suit.  The biggest question is will this become 'The' president setting suit? 

This is the real danger, Arland Bruce by himself doesn't pose that much of a threat because the effects of concussion on him are probably not that apparent but if this does turn into a class action lawsuit, watch out.  They won't need Arland to make their case if they have someone like Matt Dunigan on-board or any of the families of CFL players from the past who's lives ended tragically.

[mbrg]

My point is that in any legal case anything that brings into question the character of a claimant is relevant. Like it or not agree or disagree it is a fact.

 

Your fact is not true.  It is actually the opposite of true.  In most cases a defence attorney will have to argue during pre-trial disclosure proceedings why they feel arguing the character of the plaintiff is relevant to the case at hand, and the judge has to agree that it is relevant to the case at hand.  The default position for almost any legal proceeding these days has become that the character of the plaintiff is not part of a valid defence.

[Fatty Liver]

My point is that in any legal case anything that brings into question the character of a claimant is relevant. Like it or not agree or disagree it is a fact.

 

That's utter nonsense.  If it's not related to the case it can't even be presented the evidence they would be examining is medical not character related.  Trying to paint the claimant as "unlikeable" or an "unworthy" human is called prejudicing the jury.

[Adrenaline_x]

The t

 

 

Concussions are a real problem.  Putting players back in who still have concussion symptoms is also a problem, but... often the players themselves hide the symptoms so they can play.  IIRC, In the NFL suit some players admitted to 'gassing' the pre-season initial test, on the advice of their agents, so they wouldn't look impaired if the got a concussion.  ISO brought up the helmet issue.  In short, some if not most of the responsibility needs to lie with the players.

 

I'm not sure how much merit this particular suit has and I don't understand why they would sue every team and the CFL in general when it's one or two teams who caused the perceived problem.  Maybe the are hoping that other players get on board and it will it become a class action suit.  The biggest question is will this become 'The' president setting suit? 

This is the real danger, Arland Bruce by himself doesn't pose that much of a threat because the effects of concussion on him are probably not that apparent but if this does turn into a class action lawsuit, watch out.  They won't need Arland to make their case if they have someone like Matt Dunigan on-board or any of the families of CFL players from the past who's lives ended tragically.

 

The problem with Dunnigan is that he played 15-20 years ago.  Medical science and the study of concussions have advanced alot since then. You can't compare what happened then with what happened now. There wasn't the same awareness of understanding of the consequences of concussions.  If you think about it. 100 years ago cars were not a prevelant. Air travel could be deadly. So much so they had emergancy air strips for planes to land on in the middle of forests. 

 

Something that happend 2 years ago is addressable.. something like dunnigan isn't.  If we find out in 15 years that sitting infront of an lcd screen on a comptuer desk causes death or major health issues , is every employee going to start a class action lawsuit? If there was no research or accepted and verified research that suggests or proves that they do cause death then you can't sue for damages. NO ONE KNEW.

[bearpants]

 Maybe the are hoping that other players get on board and it will it become a class action suit.  The biggest question is will this become 'The' president setting suit? 

 

haha... perhaps you meant precedent??   

[mbrg]

The NFL didn't get into trouble because players were having concussions, the NFL got into trouble because once they became aware of the magnitude of the problem, both in scope and consequences, they chose not to take action.  At the point they were aware of the problem and decided to do nothing, they became a valid target for legal action.  At the point they willfully ignored and pushed evidence and studies of others under the carpet they became culpable for punitive damages.

 

The Bruce situation is interesting because it goes back to how much onus is on the team to protect a player from himself.  Without having any information handy to expand on what happened, it sounds like there were no concussion symptoms present when he returned to playing and the team itself did not pressure him to return to playing.  In that case it would be hard for Bruce to get a favourable ruling.  If the circumstances are different than what I understand, the balance may shift in Bruce's favour.

 

And what is never talked about in all of this is any liability on the part of the CFLPA.  Keep in mind, the owners are not out there hitting the players in the head, it is the members of their own union making the kill shots.  Also, any time the CFL has tried to crack down on violent plays thru fines and suspensions, the CFLPA is the organization that fights them.  After losing arbitration hearings brought about by the CFLPA on suspensions in the past, the CFL no longer makes much of an attempt to suspend players for on-field violence.  As an organization, their behavior is every bit as detrimental to the health of players as the CFL's.

[TBURGESS]

 

 Maybe the are hoping that other players get on board and it will it become a class action suit.  The biggest question is will this become 'The' president setting suit? 

 

haha... perhaps you meant precedent??   

 

Why yes.... I did.  Sometimes spellcheck doesn't help.

[Fatty Liver]

The NFL didn't get into trouble because players were having concussions, the NFL got into trouble because once they became aware of the magnitude of the problem, both in scope and consequences, they chose not to take action.  At the point they were aware of the problem and decided to do nothing, they became a valid target for legal action.  At the point they willfully ignored and pushed evidence and studies of others under the carpet they became culpable for punitive damages.

 

The Bruce situation is interesting because it goes back to how much onus is on the team to protect a player from himself.  Without having any information handy to expand on what happened, it sounds like there were no concussion symptoms present when he returned to playing and the team itself did not pressure him to return to playing.  In that case it would be hard for Bruce to get a favourable ruling.  If the circumstances are different than what I understand, the balance may shift in Bruce's favour.

 

And what is never talked about in all of this is any liability on the part of the CFLPA.  Keep in mind, the owners are not out there hitting the players in the head, it is the members of their own union making the kill shots.  Also, any time the CFL has tried to crack down on violent plays thru fines and suspensions, the CFLPA is the organization that fights them.  After losing arbitration hearings brought about by the CFLPA on suspensions in the past, the CFL no longer makes much of an attempt to suspend players for on-field violence.  As an organization, their behavior is every bit as detrimental to the health of players as the CFL's.

Good points.  In the "good old days" teams and trainers would have pushed players back onto the field or the ice with a sniff of smelling salts asap after having their "bell rung" but this was before they fully understood the repercussions of concussions in sport.  If the athlete can prove that he was forced into action by the team before he was fully recuperated than he has a case.  Athletes also play under economic pressure and the risk of losing their job to a replacement if they don't or can't perform and this is a huge factor in the CFL.  It's not always the players fault he often has no other choice but to "suck it up" and get back out there.

 

I think the scientific knowledge of the damage repeated blows to the head causes has been in existence for a long-time as there are references to the term "punch drunk"  as far back as the 1930's to describe the condition of retired boxers.  It was most likely the business end of sports that delayed tying the two views together for as long as possible.  To this day I think the sport of boxing refuses to acknowledge this condition has anything to do with their sport.

[Mr Dee]

There had to have been a point with Arland, much before this time, that he had full knowledge and awareness of concussion protocol.

The NFL case, with its punitive award pushed this issue to the forefront.

So, with that knowledge in mind, it is imperative for very professional player and agents and associations, to fully know their rights, right down to questionable headaches.

 

So who told whom when to play, or not to play.

It's a tough issue.

 

But, as mentioned, was there knowledge and/or suppressed knowledge that CFL teams were hiding information or not following known protocol?

That is going to be hard to prove.

 

And I agree, all teams were included so that this case has a better chance to move forward, with more people involved.

[Fatty Liver]

Here is a clip of Mark Cohon on TSN basically standing firm on current CFL policy regarding player health and stating that adequate concussion procedures and deterrents are already in place.   Zach Collaros may disagree.

 

http://www.tsn.ca/VideoHub/Default.aspx?collection=109&show=400849&section=Sports

[max power]

Did Cohon say that no player would ever get a concussion ever again?

 

And the blame for the lack of suspensions falls squarely on the players association. Remember the last few times the CFL tried to suspend a player?

[iso_55]

 

Nice reaction. Just because it's Arland Bruce it has to be phoney or he's too lazy have an actual job. Some real stereotyping going on here. The lazy, shiftless black guy. Some of you have to give your head a shake. Or don't as you may give yourselves a concussion. The Odell Willis shot at Collaros. Leagues are going to get sued if they don't crack down on head shots. Players are having problems after they retire. Who said Buck Pierce isn't having problems? How does he know that he isn't? If not, then maybe in 5 years he will. You guys can mock Bruce all you want but it will be interesting to see the info that comes out at the trial. Meanwhile the CFL in its infinite wisdom just keeps keepin' on. No suspensions for headshots. Just half a games pay... Little or no consequences. Think there won't be actual neurologists on the sidelines sooner rather than later now? 

Wow, you sure do pull a lot of **** out of your ass don't you?

 

No where did I say that it was because he was black, nor did anyone else.  Arland has been kicked off many teams for a reason.  He has a crappy attitude and thinks he's better then he is.  That leads me to believe he wants something for nothing.  You telling me Jock or Milt never got concussions?  Even minor ones?  And yet there they are, working away.

 

And again, did I, or anyone else, say Buck isn't having any problems?  No.  Once again you're either reading things wrong or making **** up.  I said Buck has problems and probably will the rest of his life, but he's still got a job and is working.

 

Arland has put himself in this position to have people doubting him.  He's done this to himself with his crap attitude.  He's just playing the blame game and trying to make a buck out of it.

 

"Typical American. Sue because I'm too lazy to actually work". You said it. Who's pulling what out of his ass? You better go get the Charmin'. Talk about stereotyping & painting every American with a single brush. I'm not a fan of Arland Bruce  as he can be a total @$$.... but to play in the NCAA & have a career of over a decade in pro football takes hard work & dedication. I'd say he has a helluva lot more motivation than you'll ever have. 

[SPuDS]

So you combat his ignorance with your own? Who are you to say how motivated or hard working Logan is? That's a personal attack and frankly, your doing it again.. You take an argument and completely lose your mind when someone says something contradictory to your side..

Maybe Logan runs his own business and runs an apartment block full of orphans..

[LeBird]

I don't know the first thing about concussions so I won't go there but I would like to suggest that if the CFLPA is banking on this case I doubt they have the best player to support its arguments. In 2012 while in BC he declared himself fit to play after an apparent concussion. So if he wasn't ready and he suffered further damage who's to blame?

[Fatty Liver]

I don't know the first thing about concussions so I won't go there but I would like to suggest that if the CFLPA is banking on this case I doubt they have the best player to support its arguments. In 2012 while in BC he declared himself fit to play after an apparent concussion. So if he wasn't ready and he suffered further damage who's to blame?

I can't see the CFLPA getting behind this lawsuit if they have any sense of self preservation.  They are a "me first" organization that has shown little concern for past or or future members.  As this lawsuit could theoretically bankrupt  the CFL  they would be foolish to jeopardize the careers of their current members for the sake of a few "walking wounded".  Could well be that Arland has already tried this route.

It would be way cheaper for the CFL to squelch this before it gets a head of steam, settle out of court with Bruce and place a restrictive gag order on his settlement.  Every under-employed ex-CFL player on Earth will be lining up to feed at the trough if they don't handle this quickly.

[road griller]

This thread makes my head hurt.