Do you think Cheveldayoff is doing a good job?

[Mr Dee]

When I see teams making moves that are being suggested for the Jets, I see teams that are nearer the position where they can make moves like that.

I don't see the Jets being ready to challenge in that they don't have the necessary 'foundation' to complete that phase.

The previous management used putty for the foundation and Chevy has strengthen that first.

It's hard. it's tedious, but it has to be done.

It's like building the Bombers O-Line…it will take time.

[Atomic]

But the plan is to keep the core players and make the team better through positive draft and development.  They accentuate the core with minor pick ups, waiver wire and free agency. 

 

The issue some people have is 'why hasnt Chevy made a player for player trade to make the Jets better'.  The answer is, it wouldnt make the Jets better.  Most fans propose trades where they ship spare parts for all stars but that doesnt work in the real world.  The Jets' most tradeable assets are players we want here, not somewhere else.  The teams that get the spare parts they need to put themselves over the top are either flush with talent they can trade (ie. they have an abundance of right handed D so they trade one for two forwards etc) or they are packaging a player and picks.

 

This is an argument I've heard before, and generally I believe that it holds true.  But an interesting case has developed recently in Dallas.  They were sitting in that 9-12 spot just like the Jets from 2011-2013, until they made the blockbuster 7-player trade to acquire Tyler Seguin.  They had to give up a budding star in Loui Eriksson, among others.  And that was enough to push them into playoff position last season.  Now, they've made another big move to acquire Jason Spezza, completing a total overhaul of their top 2 centres over a short period of time.  We don't know what's going to happen in Dallas this season, so it is hard to point to this as a model we need to follow.  But it will be interesting to see what happens there, because their situation was incredibly similar to the Jets' situation before they made the big trade.

 

Is it realistic to expect Chevy to pull off something like that?  Maybe that is asking too much... but in Dallas we have an example of a GM who proactively went out and acquired big, star-caliber players without mortgaging the future to do so.

 

All I'm saying is that it is not impossible to pull off big moves that help the team without killing its long-term viability.  It may not be easy... but nobody said being an NHL GM was an easy job, and they don't hand out gold stars for trying to sign players or trying to make trades.

[Goalie]

Jets were pretty competitive with Maurice as coach, yeah they dug themselves a hole earlier in the season that they couldn't climb out of but...you know what, even with that huge hole, they were closs to a wild card spot, maybe a full year with Maurice and the team actually gets that wild card spot. Who really knows, pretty crazy to sit here in august actually and say the team will suck, get some average goaltending and this team probably is closer than even i think. And i don't think they are that close but... pavelec was ranked like 40th overall in terms of goaltenders in the league, there are 30 teams are our goalie was ranked 40th or even lower, (45th ish actually wasn't he??). Get some average goaltending and who knows what could happen. Get some top 30 goaltending even and who knows.

 

Pav doesn't need to be a superstar to make it, he probably just needs to be average and last year he wasn't and we were pretty close. 

 

Hopefully we make the playoffs this season. If not, so be it. I got all the time in the world really, i'd rather they do things the right way rather then the toronto or philly way and be good enough just to make it but don't really do much when they get there.

 

Is a successful season making the playoffs? 

 

What if we make the playoffs and get swept in 4 games? Still a success? cuz we ain't winning a stanley cup any time soon, if ever really. 

[Atomic]

Yeah, yeah, you've made your point.  The team is too far from being competitive and it is impossible, IMPOSSIBLE I SAY, to sign free agents.  Fair enough.  I disagree on both counts.

[The Unknown Poster]

The Dallas example is probably the exception to the rule.  It could have blown up in their faces but as a southern US team, they needed to take the risk to get better.  The Jets would look at that and say why trade for Sequin when we can wait two years for Scheif and keep our other young players.  Im sure they'd have been interested in Spezza but we dont have enough parts to give up where it doesnt become a net negative for us.  Thats why we made offers to free agents - the Jets would love to have Parise or Stastny but only when the cost is cash, not players or picks.

[Goalie]

Dallas didn't make the playoffs though and there is no guarantee they do this year either.... If what people want is the playoffs cuz the stanley cup ain't happening any time soon, then Dallas isn't a very good example at all. Spezza hasn't played a game for Dallas and what makes anyone think he will be a huge difference to them, wasn't a huge difference to a young Sens team really, couldn't stay healthy, don't know if he will or won't stay healthy this year either...

 

Dallas as a whole is a  bad example, you gotta compare winnipeg to something like  Buffalo or even Minnesota but the only  reason parise and suter signed there was  because their wives are from there and they both are from near by.. You know it's like if Jonathan Toews got sick of Chicago and wanted to come play at home, Thats why Minny got those 2, cuz they wanted to play "at" or "close" to home.

 

Hell, i think Winnipeg is more comparable to Edmonton or Calgary even for that matter, Not many free agent signings there and when they do sign someone, they have to over pay. 

[The Unknown Poster]

People that say Winnipeg is a free agent wasteland sometimes make it seem like its unique to us, which it isnt.  Like you stated, other markets have had issues for a variety of reasons.  Edmonton is probably the worst market.  Someone once explained to me that the thing that makes Edmonton terrible besides everything else is their airport being so far outside town and making it difficult to travel whereas Winnipeg is fairly close, flight-wise, to everywhere.

 

I think some of it is over-blown.  Players primarily want to win.  If Winnipeg was a winner, players would be lining up to come here.  You rarely ever here any current or former Jets do anything but rave about the team and city.  I can see players being hesitant before they get here, but its pretty overblown.  When a superstar free agent chooses another city its never that city versus Winnipeg.  That player didnt just turn down Winnipeg, he turned down probably hald a dozen or more good offers from other cities too.

[Goalie]

When's the last time montreal signed a big name free agent even? or Toronto? no david clarkson doesn't count... he's not exactly a superstar in my opinion, Look at american markets like Buffalo, Minny outside of guys who are "from there" or who have "ties" to the area, Vanek lives in minnesota, parise from ND, Suter from Wisconsin but all have ties to the minnesota area. 

 

Look at Florida even, free agents only sign there if they are over paid, carolina, hell Atlanta when they were around.. the list goes on and on of places that don't really sign the big name free agents, like you said, those guys have choices and they can sign wherever they want... normally its to win, When LA was struggling a few years ago, not many guys signed there even, Anaheim has been good for a long time now, not many big free agent signings...

 

Basically it's easier to mention the places that do sign the big name free agents cuz reality is, it's only a handful of teams really and it's generally the same teams every season. 

 

The rangers and flyers come to mind as teams who generally do sign the free agent names, what has that got them though? Not much, it's got them to the playoffs, even to the finals but no stanley cups.

 

Look at the teams who have won the stanley cups recently, the bostons, chicagos, LA's, for the most part, outside of one or 2 free agent signings or "trades", these teams have been built from with in. 

[Atomic]

Dallas didn't make the playoffs though and there is no guarantee they do this year either.... If what people want is the playoffs cuz the stanley cup ain't happening any time soon, then Dallas isn't a very good example at all. Spezza hasn't played a game for Dallas and what makes anyone think he will be a huge difference to them, wasn't a huge difference to a young Sens team really, couldn't stay healthy, don't know if he will or won't stay healthy this year either...

 

Dallas as a whole is a  bad example, you gotta compare winnipeg to something like  Buffalo or even Minnesota but the only  reason parise and suter signed there was  because their wives are from there and they both are from near by.. You know it's like if Jonathan Toews got sick of Chicago and wanted to come play at home, Thats why Minny got those 2, cuz they wanted to play "at" or "close" to home.

 

Hell, i think Winnipeg is more comparable to Edmonton or Calgary even for that matter, Not many free agent signings there and when they do sign someone, they have to over pay. 

 

Dallas did make the playoffs...

[The Unknown Poster]

Pittsburgh was a wasteland.  I've heard people say Pittsburgh, as a city, sucks.  But they sign whomever they want because they are winners and because playing with elite talent makes good talent seem better and thus they make more money.

 

I think the one thing that factors in moreso than winning or playing with good players is wives.  A 25 year old hockey player probably doesnt care where he plays as along as he's winning, having fun and making money.  Afterall, who cares if it's -25 in January when the player is playing or practicing every day and traveling to PHX or Florida?  You know who cares?  His wife who is sitting at home in the condo wondering when she gets to show off her bikini body and fake tan with 6 feet of snow on the ground.

[Goalie]

 

Dallas didn't make the playoffs though and there is no guarantee they do this year either.... If what people want is the playoffs cuz the stanley cup ain't happening any time soon, then Dallas isn't a very good example at all. Spezza hasn't played a game for Dallas and what makes anyone think he will be a huge difference to them, wasn't a huge difference to a young Sens team really, couldn't stay healthy, don't know if he will or won't stay healthy this year either...

 

Dallas as a whole is a  bad example, you gotta compare winnipeg to something like  Buffalo or even Minnesota but the only  reason parise and suter signed there was  because their wives are from there and they both are from near by.. You know it's like if Jonathan Toews got sick of Chicago and wanted to come play at home, Thats why Minny got those 2, cuz they wanted to play "at" or "close" to home.

 

Hell, i think Winnipeg is more comparable to Edmonton or Calgary even for that matter, Not many free agent signings there and when they do sign someone, they have to over pay. 

 

Dallas did make the playoffs...

 

oh right, they lost to anaheim in 6 games. 

[Atomic]

The rangers and flyers come to mind as teams who generally do sign the free agent names, what has that got them though? Not much, it's got them to the playoffs, even to the finals but no stanley cups.

 

So you wouldn't be happy with a run to the Cup finals that ended in defeat?  That's your opinion, but I'm pretty sure 90% of Winnipeg would have been glued to their TVs for every game if the Jets had a similar run.

 

The Stanley Cup isn't the only goal.  Deep playoff runs are nice too.  It would be nice to be watching the Jets play playoff hockey, the city would be absolutely electric during their run, that is undeniable.

[Atomic]

 

 

Dallas didn't make the playoffs though and there is no guarantee they do this year either.... If what people want is the playoffs cuz the stanley cup ain't happening any time soon, then Dallas isn't a very good example at all. Spezza hasn't played a game for Dallas and what makes anyone think he will be a huge difference to them, wasn't a huge difference to a young Sens team really, couldn't stay healthy, don't know if he will or won't stay healthy this year either...

 

Dallas as a whole is a  bad example, you gotta compare winnipeg to something like  Buffalo or even Minnesota but the only  reason parise and suter signed there was  because their wives are from there and they both are from near by.. You know it's like if Jonathan Toews got sick of Chicago and wanted to come play at home, Thats why Minny got those 2, cuz they wanted to play "at" or "close" to home.

 

Hell, i think Winnipeg is more comparable to Edmonton or Calgary even for that matter, Not many free agent signings there and when they do sign someone, they have to over pay. 

 

Dallas did make the playoffs...

 

oh right, they lost to anaheim in 6 games. 

 

 

Gotta start somewhere.  You don't go from missing the playoffs every year to suddenly Cup champions.  Not the way it works.

[Goalie]

I've said it before, i'll say it once again... with just average goaltending, top 30 goaltending from our starter, we probably are closer than i Think even.

 

Give us Lehtonen and give Dallas Pavelec and i bet those roles would have been reversed.

 

I think the only goal is to win the stanley cup, just like in the CFL, the goal is to win the grey cup.. playoffs are nice but if you are swept in the first round... it doesn't really mean much.

 

I'd rather have a team that competes in the playoffs ran than lose in the first round... Yeah playoffs would be great but when we get there, i don't want us to be swept, i want us to actually have a chance. 

[Atomic]

It's funny, the main argument of Chevy supporters seems to be "We don't want to get into the playoffs and lose, we want to build something sustainable and win in the playoffs."  Exact same argument Brian Burke used when he was GM of the Leafs.  Still waiting for that deep playoff run from them...

 

The problem is that you never know if what you're building is going to actually work.  You have to try to win NOW, because you don't know what's going to happen in the future.  Guys get injured, sign elsewhere, become less effective, etc.

[Goalie]

Trying to win now is why a team like the leafs haven't won a cup in 40 years really... same reason philly hasn't won in forever, The good teams are the patient teams who build from with in and then when they are ready, they add the final pieces to make that playoff run and win the stanley cup. Bostons chicagos, LA's, all went through some tough times, Chicago was playing to half empty arenas like 8 years ago... There is no quick fix in sports, it's been proven time and time again that quick fixes dont happen. As difficult as it is, we need to be patient and let this team grow, when they feel they are ready, they will make those moves that will help them get over the hump. Right now though, might not be the time, but with average goaltending, maybe who knows what could happen, maybe this season we see them actually progress and make some moves around the deadline to help them get in but i'm concerned with the goaltending for sure, pavelec, i don't really think he is a starting goaltender and i do wish they would have moved on  from him, i think he is indeed holding the team back a bit... So many 1 goal losses the last couple seasons, hell, could be argued with half decent goaltending and an effective powerplay, which we haven't had since they have been here, this team probably does make the playoffs. 

[Atomic]

Trying to win now is why a team like the leafs haven't won a cup in 40 years really... same reason philly hasn't won in forever, The good teams are the patient teams who build from with in and then when they are ready, they add the final pieces to make that playoff run and win the stanley cup. Bostons chicagos, LA's, all went through some tough times, Chicago was playing to half empty arenas like 8 years ago...

 

Boston?  Built from within?  When did they draft Chara?  How about Tuukka Rask?  It could be argued that those are their two most impactful players, and neither one was drafted by Boston.  They also were not acquired when Boston was on the brink of being champions... they didn't become the perennial powerhouse they are now UNTIL they acquired those players.  Sure they have drafted a good core, but it took big player acquisitions to truly push them into elite status.

 

How about LA?  When did they draft Carter, Richards, Gaborik, Muzzin, Justin Williams, Matt Greene, Jarrett Stoll?  The answer is never.

 

You need to let go of this idea that there is only one way to build a team.  Because it is never that simple.  You have to exhaust all avenues, including trades and free agency.

[Goalie]

Quick Doughty Kopitar

 

But, the realities of Winnipeg is we are not in the position to do that... we don't have assets to trade right now, I understand there are other ways to build but until you have that core group of young players to build around and you start to accumulate some prospects, you cant go out and make some moves to help you. We don't have that right now... we have finally started to actually build our prospect pool, can't just go trading them away for quick fixes right now. Maybe one day, we do but now is not that time.Patience is needed, think the majority of people understand that and understand the market we live in and get that big name free agents aren't going to sign here if they have other options...

 

Who do you trade to help the team get better?

 

Scheifele? Trouba? Bogo? Little? Kane? Our young core group of guys? Nope, ladd? wheeler? buff? Enstrom? What would they bring back? addition by subtraction? reality is, we don't have assets to make the moves those other teams have made. Like it or not, it's just the way it is here.

 

Think most people understand this, think it's a very vocal minority that don't. 

 

 

[Atomic]

Quick Doughty Kopitar

 

LOL obviously they have drafted some of their own players.  Every team in the league has.  And guess what?  We could acquire players AND still keep some of the players we drafted!!  Why don't you understand that?  It doesn't have to be one or the other.

 

The Kings traded away Jack Johnson, who was one of their top, young defencemen.  Basically like us trading Trouba right now.  You have to give away good pieces to get good pieces back.  You just have to be smart about it.

[The Unknown Poster]

I dont think anyone says they dont want to get into the playoffs and lose.  I dont think anyone thinks the Jets will go from out of the playoffs to cup finalists.  Its about steady growth.  I agree that we've been pretty close.  I think the point is, Chevy isnt going to trade future value for "win now" value when that win now value isnt a guarantee.  Would he trade the future for Crosby?  Sure.  But thats not going to happen.  Trading Kane for another top six winger is net neutral.  Thats why the jets reportedly want a big package to trade him.

 

A time will come when our young players and picks have developed to the point where we can trade picks, prospects or roster players for the "missing ingredients" but we're not there yet.  Chevy wants to win and get better, hence why he's been in on big name free agents.  He's just not going to make blockbuster trades to get those types of players, at least not yet.

[Atomic]

Who do you trade to help the team get better?

 

Scheifele? Trouba? Bogo? Little? Kane? Our young core group of guys? Nope, ladd? wheeler? buff? Enstrom? What would they bring back? addition by subtraction? reality is, we don't have assets to make the moves those other teams have made. Like it or not, it's just the way it is here.

 

Think most people understand this, think it's a very vocal minority that don't. 

 

Sorry, but why can't we trade Bogo or Kane?  Are they so amazing that they are irreplaceable?  I don't think so.  And either one would bring back a good return.  Possibly even some young players to bolster our prospect pool.  Imagine that, trading players and building for the future all at once...

[Atomic]

 

I dont think anyone says they dont want to get into the playoffs and lose.

 

That's literally a direct quote from our friend Goalie here.  He does not want to get into the playoffs and lose.

[Goalie]

 

 

I dont think anyone says they dont want to get into the playoffs and lose.

 

That's literally a direct quote from our friend Goalie here.  He does not want to get into the playoffs and lose.

 

Hmm, not exactly. I said i don't want them to make the playoffs and get swept, i said when they make the playoffs, i want them to be able to actually  compete. You have your opinion and i have mine, it is what it is. This reminds me a lot of the bomber off season with people prediciting we would suck for sure and be competing with ottawa and montreal for dead last. 

 

Gotta wait till the season starts to see how things unfold, said it 1000 x now, with some average goaltending, we might just make the playoffs and who knows what happens from there... Look at colorado last year, varlamov had a career year, basically carried them to the playoffs, can pavelec do the same? Guess we will have to wait and see. 

[Atomic]

 

 

 

I dont think anyone says they dont want to get into the playoffs and lose.

 

That's literally a direct quote from our friend Goalie here.  He does not want to get into the playoffs and lose.

 

Hmm, not exactly. I said i don't want them to make the playoffs and get swept, i said when they make the playoffs, i want them to be able to actually  compete. You have your opinion and i have mine, it is what it is. This reminds me a lot of the bomber off season with people prediciting we would suck for sure and be competing with ottawa and montreal for dead last. 

 

Gotta wait till the season starts to see how things unfold, said it 1000 x now, with some average goaltending, we might just make the playoffs and who knows what happens from there... Look at colorado last year, varlamov had a career year, basically carried them to the playoffs, can pavelec do the same? Guess we will have to wait and see. 

 

 

It reminds me more of people defending Joe Mack... "Well of course he can't sign free agents!  No one wants to play in Winnipeg!", "You want him to mortgage the future just to bring in a couple players?  He's trying to build something here!"

[The Unknown Poster]

Ive never heard one player express unhappiness with being in Winnipeg.  Sure, for the most part, no player ever would.  But even when the team was in Atlanta, you didnt year any complain.  I remember Buff signing that long term deal and being asked "what if the team moves to Winnipeg" and he said "close to home, great fans". 

 

The Bombers actually relied upon some players recruiting because the franchise had such a poor rep after the past few years.  Korey Banks in particular directly led to other guys coming here (Nick Moore, I believe).  So that happens.