Telling Bryant Turner comment ...

[IC Khari]

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/football/bombers/411-269329461.html

 

Whoever's responsible, things have changed dramatically internally, defensive tackle Bryant Turner said.

"The bar's been raised because so many guys are doing better," Turner said. "You're just trying to keep up with the next guy. This is a totally different atmosphere. We don't really have any cancers, nobody's bringing the team down."

 

[MOBomberFan]

From that same article:

 

CLEANING UP

THE Bombers are improving in one subtle category heading into Week 6 and now they are ranked No. 1 in the CFL for taking the fewest penalties.

With just eight and five infractions against in the last two weeks, Winnipeg now average's a league-best 9.4 penalties against per game.

The Cats are ninth and last at 13.8 per game.

 

Awesome.

[IC Khari]

It is awesome. Any guesses who the cancers, who are no longer with the team, are?

[Rich]

Tim Burke?

[The Unknown Poster]

Tim Burke?

Ignorant.

[Pete Catan's Ghost]

Tim Burke?

I agree. First impulse is to say JJ, but at least he did his job some of the time.

 

Burke was an apathetic quasi-nice guy who lacked energy and commitment to his team...a Cancer doesn't have to actively subvert , it can be more subtle, like a coach who doesn't trust or lead his charges.

[do or die]

The cancers were around before Burke....

[Rich]

 

Tim Burke?

Ignorant.

 

 

You don't think a head coach who throws his players under the bus at every turn, who basically said that the talent level on the team isn't good enough to win, isn't a cancer in the room?  You don't think that stuff doesn't bring the team down.

 

Have you ever had a boss that everyone hated that when he walked into the room everyone shut up and was immediately on edge?    I was never in the locker room, so I can't say this is how it was, but based on what I saw of his interviews, how he composed himself, how he spoke, and what he said, I would have a very hard time respecting what he did and said as a player.

 

And that is the worst kind of cancer to bring to any team, because it permeates from the top down.

[kelownabomberfan]

There were a lot of guys who quit on the team by the end, and those guys are gone.  JJ, Kenny Mainor, Goltz, Brandon Stewart, just to name a few.  Not saying those guys were "cancers" but there is a reason they aren't here anymore and talent or lack thereof isn't the only reason some of them are now gone. 

[Fatty Liver]

 

 

Tim Burke?

Ignorant.

 

 

You don't think a head coach who throws his players under the bus at every turn, who basically said that the talent level on the team isn't good enough to win, isn't a cancer in the room?  You don't think that stuff doesn't bring the team down.

 

Have you ever had a boss that everyone hated that when he walked into the room everyone shut up and was immediately on edge?    I was never in the locker room, so I can't say this is how it was, but based on what I saw of his interviews, how he composed himself, how he spoke, and what he said, I would have a very hard time respecting what he did and said as a player.

 

And that is the worst kind of cancer to bring to any team, because it permeates from the top down.

 

 

Bashing people grows old very quickly, especially after they're gone.  Tim Burke had his faults no doubt, being truthful and candid were probably a few of them but in most walks of life these traits are admired.  How about Walters role in the 2013 season?  In your mind does he walk free without absorbing any of the responsibility for the team's losing record?  For the majority of the season he was the GM above even Tim Burke if I recall.  What actions did he take to provide Burke with better players so that they could win?  Is he absolved of all blame?

 

The part of your statement that I bolded actually made me chuckle.  If you ever find yourself in the back of a room grumbling about your boss or organization guess what?  In that situation you are the "cancer" of which you speak.

[Rich]

 

 

 

Tim Burke?

Ignorant.

 

 

You don't think a head coach who throws his players under the bus at every turn, who basically said that the talent level on the team isn't good enough to win, isn't a cancer in the room?  You don't think that stuff doesn't bring the team down.

 

Have you ever had a boss that everyone hated that when he walked into the room everyone shut up and was immediately on edge?    I was never in the locker room, so I can't say this is how it was, but based on what I saw of his interviews, how he composed himself, how he spoke, and what he said, I would have a very hard time respecting what he did and said as a player.

 

And that is the worst kind of cancer to bring to any team, because it permeates from the top down.

 

 

Bashing people grows old very quickly, especially after they're gone.  Tim Burke had his faults no doubt, being truthful and candid were probably a few of them but in most walks of life these traits are admired.  How about Walters role in the 2013 season?  In your mind does he walk free without absorbing any of the responsibility for the team's losing record?  For the majority of the season he was the GM above even Tim Burke if I recall.  What actions did he take to provide Burke with better players so that they could win?  Is he absolved of all blame?

 

The part of your statement that I bolded actually made me chuckle.  If you ever find yourself in the back of a room grumbling about your boss or organization guess what?  In that situation you are the "cancer" of which you speak.

 

 

Seeing as how Joe Mack was fired mid way through the 2013 season, and since he only took over mid season I'm not sure what you expect that Kyle Walters could have done at that point in time.    For example, it is widely known that Walters wanted to draft Edem, Mack overruled and drafted Mulumba.

 

Seeing what Walters has done since gaining full control as GM, yes I give him a pass on the 2013 season.

 

No where in my post did I mention employees grumbling about a boss or organization when they walked into the room.  You added that.  I've seen situations where a boss is so out to lunch that people just clam up when he walks in regardless of what they were just doing.

 

As for you applauding and admiring Tim Burke's honesty, in no walk of like do I find it acceptable to pass the buck and blame other people when you were put in charge to lead.   If you have problems with peoples performances, take them aside and keep it in house.  Never do it in the media and never do it in front of others.  Taking responsibility and saying you are going to right the ship, taking the blame for a situation when you are in charge (whether it is your fault or not), gets you respect and admiration, because the people on the inside of that situation know the truth.  Passing the buck just adds to the problem.

 

But on the flip side, I'm glad I was able to make you chuckle.

[Tehedra]

Rich he was referring to the guy who said Ignorant; not to you

[Logan007]

TLB, what exactly do you think Walters was supposed to accomplish after half the season was already over? He traded for a national OL and brought in a few players, but other then that there's not much you can do once more then half the season is already over and you barely have any scouts to work with. I think we had what, one scout down south?

So yes, Tim Burke was the cancer in this team along with a few other players and coaches.

[17to85]

When the head coach doesn't believe in his players you get what we saw last year, a team that had no heart, no desire and an amazing ability to just give up you know why? Because the head coach had given up before the game even started. Look how different it is with O'Shea? He believes in the players, he lets them go out and make plays to win football games, he never uses excuses. Ravaged by injuries and getting really deep into the depth chart.... doesn't matter the coach thinks they should all be able to start so it's just next guy up make some plays. That trickles down through the entire team. Any one who doubts just how bad Burke was as head coach after seeing what O'Shea has managed to do is just flat out not paying attention. There haven't been THAT many changes to the roster you can pin it all on that.

[TBURGESS]

Guys... let it go.  We're playing great now.  No need to dredge up the last 4 regimes. 

[Fatty Liver]

TLB, what exactly do you think Walters was supposed to accomplish after half the season was already over? He traded for a national OL and brought in a few players, but other then that there's not much you can do once more then half the season is already over and you barely have any scouts to work with. I think we had what, one scout down south?

So yes, Tim Burke was the cancer in this team along with a few other players and coaches.

My God, I'm not blaming Walters or Tim Burke for 2013 as neither is solely responsible for the losses of the team.  What is it exactly that that you think Burke could have done to change the course of the 2013 season?  Pretend he had a QB that could win?

 

The failure of the 2013 season lies with the Bombers entire organization from players on up to the B.O.D. and it includes both Burke and Walters.

 

You are looking for a scapegoat, you choose Burke, congratulations, enjoy! 

[The Unknown Poster]

Tim Burke?

Ignorant.

You don't think a head coach who throws his players under the bus at every turn, who basically said that the talent level on the team isn't good enough to win, isn't a cancer in the room? You don't think that stuff doesn't bring the team down.

Have you ever had a boss that everyone hated that when he walked into the room everyone shut up and was immediately on edge? I was never in the locker room, so I can't say this is how it was, but based on what I saw of his interviews, how he composed himself, how he spoke, and what he said, I would have a very hard time respecting what he did and said as a player.

And that is the worst kind of cancer to bring to any team, because it permeates from the top down.

I think you're jumping to a lot of conclusions based on absolutely no knowledge about a guy who, aside from a brief period, seemed to always perform at a high level and command the respect of his players and colleagues.

[kelownabomberfan]

Not having a QB was our biggest issue by far. I like how Walters addressed that as soon as possible. There was no way he was getting Willy earlier than he did, Sask wasn't going to trade him away during the season and give up their only insurance. And even if Willy had been brought in during the season, he probably would have gotten killed with that horrible offense we were running. Anyway, onward we go.

[Valderan_CA]

Walters also made a trade for Neufeld soon after he was promoted.

 

A trade that a number of people on this board said was a bad one.

 

I gotta say - it is looking like one hell of a good trade right now (getting rid of a guy going to the NFL and a later round draft pick for a SOLID starting NI oline)

[17to85]

Not having a QB was our biggest issue by far. I like how Walters addressed that as soon as possible. There was no way he was getting Willy earlier than he did, Sask wasn't going to trade him away during the season and give up their only insurance. And even if Willy had been brought in during the season, he probably would have gotten killed with that horrible offense we were running. Anyway, onward we go.

Do you think WIlly would have done OK here last year? Honest question.....

[17to85]

Walters also made a trade for Neufeld soon after he was promoted.

 

A trade that a number of people on this board said was a bad one.

 

I gotta say - it is looking like one hell of a good trade right now (getting rid of a guy going to the NFL and a later round draft pick for a SOLID starting NI oline)

It was a 2nd round draft pick, and given where the Bombers finished the season it was an early 2nd rounder...

 

Here's the problem I still have with the trade: Walters had all the leverage in that trade. Riders wanted Hall, one of if not the best DE in the league for their playoff push, they were likely to lose Neufeld at least to the expansion draft anyway. Walters jumped the gun and paid too much. Hall and an actual late pick would have been one thing, but Hall and a high 2nd? That's an overpayment for a player the Riders were just trying to get some return on. 

[Atomic]

 

Walters also made a trade for Neufeld soon after he was promoted.

 

A trade that a number of people on this board said was a bad one.

 

I gotta say - it is looking like one hell of a good trade right now (getting rid of a guy going to the NFL and a later round draft pick for a SOLID starting NI oline)

It was a 2nd round draft pick, and given where the Bombers finished the season it was an early 2nd rounder...

 

Here's the problem I still have with the trade: Walters had all the leverage in that trade. Riders wanted Hall, one of if not the best DE in the league for their playoff push, they were likely to lose Neufeld at least to the expansion draft anyway. Walters jumped the gun and paid too much. Hall and an actual late pick would have been one thing, but Hall and a high 2nd? That's an overpayment for a player the Riders were just trying to get some return on. 

 

 

I felt the same way at the time of the trade, but now I look at it like we got a starting OL for a second round pick... which we probably wouldn't have been able to do if we had kept the pick.  We also got a fourth-rounder back in the trade.

[17to85]

 

 

Walters also made a trade for Neufeld soon after he was promoted.

 

A trade that a number of people on this board said was a bad one.

 

I gotta say - it is looking like one hell of a good trade right now (getting rid of a guy going to the NFL and a later round draft pick for a SOLID starting NI oline)

It was a 2nd round draft pick, and given where the Bombers finished the season it was an early 2nd rounder...

 

Here's the problem I still have with the trade: Walters had all the leverage in that trade. Riders wanted Hall, one of if not the best DE in the league for their playoff push, they were likely to lose Neufeld at least to the expansion draft anyway. Walters jumped the gun and paid too much. Hall and an actual late pick would have been one thing, but Hall and a high 2nd? That's an overpayment for a player the Riders were just trying to get some return on. 

 

 

I felt the same way at the time of the trade, but now I look at it like we got a starting OL for a second round pick... which we probably wouldn't have been able to do if we had kept the pick.  We also got a fourth-rounder back in the trade.

 

but you can't ignore Hall in the trade, he was a star player, the fact that he's not in the league now is irrelevant, he helped the Riders to win a Grey Cup, he was a huge part of the trade. Walters seems to me to pay whatever the cost to get his player which can be good or bad. At least he knows what he wants, but you can't always be paying sticker price in trades. Sticker price is sucker price. 

[Atomic]

 

 

 

Walters also made a trade for Neufeld soon after he was promoted.

 

A trade that a number of people on this board said was a bad one.

 

I gotta say - it is looking like one hell of a good trade right now (getting rid of a guy going to the NFL and a later round draft pick for a SOLID starting NI oline)

It was a 2nd round draft pick, and given where the Bombers finished the season it was an early 2nd rounder...

 

Here's the problem I still have with the trade: Walters had all the leverage in that trade. Riders wanted Hall, one of if not the best DE in the league for their playoff push, they were likely to lose Neufeld at least to the expansion draft anyway. Walters jumped the gun and paid too much. Hall and an actual late pick would have been one thing, but Hall and a high 2nd? That's an overpayment for a player the Riders were just trying to get some return on. 

 

 

I felt the same way at the time of the trade, but now I look at it like we got a starting OL for a second round pick... which we probably wouldn't have been able to do if we had kept the pick.  We also got a fourth-rounder back in the trade.

 

but you can't ignore Hall in the trade, he was a star player, the fact that he's not in the league now is irrelevant, he helped the Riders to win a Grey Cup, he was a huge part of the trade. Walters seems to me to pay whatever the cost to get his player which can be good or bad. At least he knows what he wants, but you can't always be paying sticker price in trades. Sticker price is sucker price. 

 

 

The thing is, nobody gives up starting OL.  It took the first overall pick to pry Jon Gott out of Calgary... he is a good OL but definitely not the best in the league or anything.  I believe that you are undervaluing Neufeld at this point.

[Floyd]

Neufeld would have ended up in Ottawa for nothing... Sask would never have protected him.

 

Walters overpaid on his early trades but I'm not going to be too hard on him, Wpg had been out of the trading game for three years.

 

I think Neufeld is just 'okay' but then again, not sure what other NI OL was available at the time.  Gotta pay to play.