Telling Bryant Turner comment ...

[mbrg]

 

I doubt anyone is saying Hall didn't have value

plenty of people have said exactly that when they try and justify it by saying that if you look at it as Neufeld for a 2nd round pick it's good value. 

 

 

Their perception of value is just as subjective as yours or mine, it also depends on how good you think a player actually is, but that deal does not happen as Neufeld for a 2nd round pick.  Just as Hall for a 4th round pick doesn't happen either.

[Mr Dee]

But Alex Hall had no future value to us, and that's what we're really concerned with here, isn't it?

Value in 2013 of Hall for us - 0.

Probably more value for Sask. but they still didn't have to make that trade.

They didn't need to make that trade.

 

You still have to factor Neufeld as an experienced NI O-Lineman, and that has value….2nd rounder for a 4th rounder coming back, and Neufeld? for a goner?

No problem, no problem at all.

[johnzo]

No way should Walters have been adding a 2nd round pick. 4th round pick now we're talking, but not a 2nd.

How much more valuable is a second round pick than a fourth round pick? How many CFLers do you find in the second vs. in the fourth?

The CFL draft is basically lawn darts played by blindfolded football insiders. Four of our current national starters / rotation guys weren't even drafted (Bucknor, Pontbriand, Kohlert, Sherman). Lirim H, our MOC, wasn't drafted either. So I think it's funny to read that all this goldilocks stuff about how a fourth pick would have been juuuusst right but a second was wayyyy tooooo much.

I don't want to think about where this team would be if Walters had been too cheap to secure Neufeld.

[SPuDS]

This thread has become lol worthy.. Turner tells us there's no cancers on this team and tons of chemistry and next we are talking about turner sucking (wtf?) And Walters sucking at trading... (again, wtf!) We traded a guy who wasn't going to be relevant here again and a second rounder for a starting canadian oliner.. Would we have landed one in the second round? Doubtful. Is our oline playing that much better since he was brought in? Yip. Lastly, with who we have seen at GM in the last 3 seasons... do we really have any grounds to complain ?

[Mr. Perfect]

This thread has become lol worthy.. Turner tells us there's no cancers on this team and tons of chemistry and next we are talking about turner sucking (wtf?) And Walters sucking at trading... (again, wtf!) We traded a guy who wasn't going to be relevant here again and a second rounder for a starting canadian oliner.. Would we have landed one in the second round? Doubtful. Is our oline playing that much better since he was brought in? Yip. Lastly, with who we have seen at GM in the last 3 seasons... do we really have any grounds to complain ?

I can't click the "like" button enough for this post.

[Floyd]

This thread has become lol worthy.. Turner tells us there's no cancers on this team and tons of chemistry and next we are talking about turner sucking (wtf?) And Walters sucking at trading... (again, wtf!) We traded a guy who wasn't going to be relevant here again and a second rounder for a starting canadian oliner.. Would we have landed one in the second round? Doubtful. Is our oline playing that much better since he was brought in? Yip. Lastly, with who we have seen at GM in the last 3 seasons... do we really have any grounds to complain ?

 

As usual, you take a relevant conversation and twist it into some weird extreme.

 

No one has said 'Walters sucks' at trading but he is a rookie.

 

And now I will give myself a Mr Perfect pat on the back for saying that Goosen could play RG just as well as Neufeld.

[Mr. Perfect]

Careful now, that stuff is trademarked.

 

In all seriousness, Goossen played very well I thought considering the circumstances. The only time Hamilton got pressure was when they were sending more than we could block, unlike us who were still at times able to get pressure when rushing three of four. Zach Anderson was a big reason why.

[BigBlue]

Careful now, that stuff is trademarked.

 

In all seriousness, Goossen played very well I thought considering the circumstances. The only time Hamilton got pressure was when they were sending more than we could block, unlike us who were still at times able to get pressure when rushing three of four. Zach Anderson was a big reason why.

 

I saw Goosen in there but I don't know when he went in or why ... missed TSN comment on that if there was one ... tell me more please

[tacklewasher]

 

This thread has become lol worthy.. Turner tells us there's no cancers on this team and tons of chemistry and next we are talking about turner sucking (wtf?) And Walters sucking at trading... (again, wtf!) We traded a guy who wasn't going to be relevant here again and a second rounder for a starting canadian oliner.. Would we have landed one in the second round? Doubtful. Is our oline playing that much better since he was brought in? Yip. Lastly, with who we have seen at GM in the last 3 seasons... do we really have any grounds to complain ?

I can't click the "like" button enough for this post.

 

So you don't click it at all???

 

 

 

 

[Mr. Perfect]

 

Careful now, that stuff is trademarked.

 

In all seriousness, Goossen played very well I thought considering the circumstances. The only time Hamilton got pressure was when they were sending more than we could block, unlike us who were still at times able to get pressure when rushing three of four. Zach Anderson was a big reason why.

 

I saw Goosen in there but I don't know when he went in or why ... missed TSN comment on that if there was one ... tell me more please

 

Neufeld went down with an injury. Based on what was being said on Twitter it didn't appear to be serious.

[SPuDS]

Careful now, that stuff is trademarked.

In all seriousness, Goossen played very well I thought considering the circumstances. The only time Hamilton got pressure was when they were sending more than we could block, unlike us who were still at times able to get pressure when rushing three of four. Zach Anderson was a big reason why.

I saw Goosen in there but I don't know when he went in or why ... missed TSN comment on that if there was one ... tell me more please

Neufeld went down with an injury. Based on what was being said on Twitter it didn't appear to be serious.

Crap. Cue the "injury prone" comments.

[Adrenaline_x]

Walters also made a trade for Neufeld soon after he was promoted.

 

A trade that a number of people on this board said was a bad one.

 

I gotta say - it is looking like one hell of a good trade right now (getting rid of a guy going to the NFL and a later round draft pick for a SOLID starting NI oline)

It was a 2nd round draft pick, and given where the Bombers finished the season it was an early 2nd rounder...

 

Here's the problem I still have with the trade: Walters had all the leverage in that trade. Riders wanted Hall, one of if not the best DE in the league for their playoff push, they were likely to lose Neufeld at least to the expansion draft anyway. Walters jumped the gun and paid too much. Hall and an actual late pick would have been one thing, but Hall and a high 2nd? That's an overpayment for a player the Riders were just trying to get some return on.

 

I felt the same way at the time of the trade, but now I look at it like we got a starting OL for a second round pick... which we probably wouldn't have been able to do if we had kept the pick.  We also got a fourth-rounder back in the trade.

but you can't ignore Hall in the trade, he was a star player, the fact that he's not in the league now is irrelevant, he helped the Riders to win a Grey Cup, he was a huge part of the trade. Walters seems to me to pay whatever the cost to get his player which can be good or bad. At least he knows what he wants, but you can't always be paying sticker price in trades. Sticker price is sucker price.

 

The thing is, nobody gives up starting OL.  It took the first overall pick to pry Jon Gott out of Calgary... he is a good OL but definitely not the best in the league or anything.  I believe that you are undervaluing Neufeld at this point.

But he wasn't a starter in Saskatchewan and with the expansion draft coming up they were going to lose him anyway. It was them trading a depth player, and yes he was a depth player for them,in order to bolster their defensive line for a playoff run. No way should Walters have been adding a 2nd round pick. 4th round pick now we're talking, but not a 2nd.

They may not have lost him in the expansion draft and u stating it as fact is pure conjecture. Ottawa May not have wanted him or sask may have protected him.

Walters may still have paid too much, but he valued the player over the pick and a pending free agent. Hall is out of the league, so Walters did alight. Had we kept him we got nothing. We got neufeld and gave up a 2nd round pick. The draft is a crap shoot and I believe I recall u saying the draft isn't a sure thing. So.. What more important? A player who's shown he can play in the cfl (even just as a back up on a team with a great oline) or an unknown draft pick.. In hindsight Walters made a great trade but at the time it looked pretty lopsided.

Hall wasn't going to take us to the playoffs and was going south the first chance he got so it seemed..

[GCn20]

I don't find anything too telling in Turner's comments. Since the offseason of 2011 it was pretty evident our locker room had cancerous factions. Terence Edwards confirmed this when he retired. What is most revealing about Turner's comments is that it confirms that the brass identified the cancer and successfully removed it....although a quick look at our record was all the proof I needed. I always felt that their were bigger issues than just our talent level.

[do or die]

We have had various forms of cancer, since about 2003.....

[17to85]

I don't find anything too telling in Turner's comments. Since the offseason of 2011 it was pretty evident our locker room had cancerous factions. Terence Edwards confirmed this when he retired. What is most revealing about Turner's comments is that it confirms that the brass identified the cancer and successfully removed it....although a quick look at our record was all the proof I needed. I always felt that their were bigger issues than just our talent level.

but when we actually look at the changes made... who were the cancers? I don't buy that Jovon Johnson was all by himself causing that much of a problem in the locker room. Nor a bunch of backup players either. To me this all comes down to replacing an ineffective coach who didn't get anything out of his team with a coach who understands how to get a team to buy in. 

[Floyd]

Basically, it comes down to

2013 - nine coaches

2014 - 13 coaches

 

These forums have been begging for more coaching staff for four years now, we finally have it.  Players don't end up thinking they have to do everything themselves.  Maybe if we hadn't cheaped out on coaching staff in 2010 then Lapo is still coaching and maybe winning... who knows.

[kelownabomberfan]

Basically, it comes down to

2013 - nine coaches

2014 - 13 coaches

 

These forums have been begging for more coaching staff for four years now, we finally have it.  Players don't end up thinking they have to do everything themselves.  Maybe if we hadn't cheaped out on coaching staff in 2010 then Lapo is still coaching and maybe winning... who knows.

 

I was never one who bought in before on the whole needing more coaches thing, but I sure do now.  The big one for me is that we actually have a QB coach.  And as Suitor said last night, Buck is also helping to mentor Drew Willy, which is great, because Buck is a great character guy as well as a true professional and someone I'd definitely want mentoring my young guns.  The QB's should be getting a lot more help this year than in almost any other year, and that's got to be helping the team big time.

[do or die]

More coaches, more individual attention + leadership and direction the from top (HC) = young players coached up, better development

[Jpan85]

More opportunities to bounce ideas off each more creative brought to the game plan. I think the people that O'Shea has brought in have meshed very well together to. You have Canadian football people top to bottom throughout the organization and it is showing in big time. I think Neil Lumsden summed it up the best, "there are very good people working in this organization and it makes easy to cheer for them this. I am really enjoying watching them and pulling for them."

[Jacquie]

Basically, it comes down to

2013 - nine coaches

2014 - 13 coaches

These forums have been begging for more coaching staff for four years now, we finally have it. Players don't end up thinking they have to do everything themselves. Maybe if we hadn't cheaped out on coaching staff in 2010 then Lapo is still coaching and maybe winning... who knows.

We didn't cheap out. From what he said, Lapo didn't want more coaches.

[Goalie]

Cancers? Turner has been with the team for a few seasons now so he probably isn't just referring to last season. Here's my best guess as to who "the cancers" on this team were the last couple years.

 

Joe Mack, Tim Burke, Jovon,Hef,Stewart,Goltz, Gonna say Max Hall, didn't really seem like a leader out there, kind of Kevin Glenn ish, not a shot at Glenn, but.. basically blamed others and never himself really. Elliot, yup mr sucked crap in a game and then said thought he played well, Crowton, Creehan, I can probably go on and on but there's not point as those players, management and coaches are no longer here. Buchko even. Probably Lapolice as he liked to micro manage too much. The list goes on and on and on really for a few years.

 

I will admit that the last few seasons, our team seemed to play as individuals and not as a team, cared more about personal stats where as this years team, they all say the same thing, the message is clear, we win as a team, we lose as a team. Last few years (several really)(going back to mike kelly even) it was the opposite.  i would say that is on management and coaches first and then on some of the players that i'm sure we are all aware of. 

[17to85]

so you're agreeing with me that it wasn't players who were cancers but the coaches were just inept? Coaches aren't cancers on teams they can just be terrible coaches who can't motivate a team, that's the guys we had coaching unfortunately. 

[Goalie]

so you're agreeing with me that it wasn't players who were cancers but the coaches were just inept? Coaches aren't cancers on teams they can just be terrible coaches who can't motivate a team, that's the guys we had coaching unfortunately. 

I think i blame management and coaches first then the players. I think if you have a good coaching staff, that staff eliminates the cancers.. if you have good management, you don't hire crappy coaches. 

[Tracker]

There is a "law" cited by Buddhists: "Like calls to like", so it is possible that the coaches and players were both responsible along with the GM(s) for the whole magilla.

[do or die]

Some players are the cancer.  Bad coaches simply lack the insight and fortitude....to deal with the cancers....