O'Shea hands away the LDC

[White Out]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm no kid for sure, but O'Shea has a lot of credit with me.

Count me in with those who don't like the way you disparaged our Head Coach with that title for this thread.

You may have disagreed with the call but don't pretend yours is the only opinion, or that yours is the more correct.

When someone equates me being a bandwagon fan for calling out our coach for a bad call I don't give said person much credit.

why was it a bad call? What would you be saying if we went for it on 3rd and a long 1 and got stuffed? that it was a bad call to go for it and we should have kicked the fg?

I would have said we deserve to lose. If you can't make a yard in the CFL it's time to make changes. The defence has to line up 1 yard away for Christ sake.

yeah so damned if we do, damned if we don't.

Your assuming we would fail on 3rd and short. In that scenario blame shifts from O'Shea to our offensive line. I mean Christ, really?

 

So, the blame would be on the offensive then with you? Yeah, right. Why aren't you blaming Etch & his defense then who couldn't stop the Riders on their final drive from scoring a touchdown then? 

 

 

I do blame his defense. They're literally the 1st thing I listed. Did you even read my post or did you just scream in here to attack me?

 

anyone who has called O'Shea a "coward" is completely classless and ignorant.... after the HCs we've seen here over the past, even five years... give your head a shake... he made the low risk call, not the cowardly call...

 

If at all I gave the impression I think he's a coward, or said it, or said anything like that I def apologize and blame it on me being upset after another loss to the riders. I hate losing to that franchise more than I would like a playoff win at this point. 

 

 

 

Your assuming we would fail on 3rd and short. In that scenario blame shifts from O'Shea to our offensive line. I mean Christ, really?

 

now stop for a second, go back and read what you wrote there and maybe you'll understand the other side of the argument. In the situation that plays out the blame shifts from O'Shea to the defense! Once you stand up, remove your head from your ass maybe you'll see the big picture. 

 

No matter what you call you have to execute it. 

 

 

The issue is probability and playing not to lose and playing to win. I consider our odds of winning to go up significantly if we earn , what should be, a rather casual 1st down on 3rd and less than a yard. It would greatly aid our D and likely we would have won, in my opinion. Also why not try and debate this thing on merit and avoid all this name calling? Really?

[17to85]

and I've told you before that you can't just pull numbers out of your ass and call them statistics.

[Floyd]

Paul Friesen        

✔ @friesensunmedia

And yes, I disagreed with Mike O'Shea's field goal call on 3rd and 1. Brutal decision. No confidence in O-line. #Bombers

 

 

Now we know for sure it was the right call...

[bb1]

Im not paid to make these decisions like some posters here are but my hindsight now is working too. I think MOS is the best coach we have had here in a long long time and thankfully has the guts to do what he thinks is best at the time. Good enough reason for me.

[Goalie]

I actually agree with O'shea when he says he's not concerned about our Run D. If guys could just tackle, that would eliminate most/all of the problems, Lots of times our guys are in position to make tackles but don't wrap them up always... Going on and on about this 3rd and 1 yard and 2 inches stuff but.. if our D could have actually made a couple tackles on that last drive, we would have won. Watch it again, several times on that last drive, we are right there when the RB hits the line of scrimmage, heck even behind the line and just miss the tackle, Make the tackle and it's irrelevant.

 

But, with all that and the other posts i've made in this thread said, It's pretty tough to look to one play in a game that has about 100 of them combined for both teams and say that play cost us the game,It's never just one play, it's always more than one.

 

It's just too easy to look at one play and say that's the play that cost us... It wasn't though, it was the turnovers again, it was a whole lot of things that cost us the game, it was the second quarter, it was penalties at the worst times, it was missed tackles, it was missed passes, it was a whole lot of stuff, never one thing.

 

It's kind of like if the game was say 32-30 and we are lining up for the FG to win and we miss that fg and blaming the kicker for the loss, well, question is, why were we in that position to kick the fg to win anyway? Because we didn't execute enough throughout the entire game, cuz we made more mistakes than the other team. 

 

It was 21-7 riders at one point, we played good for i'd say 2 quarters, maybe 2.5 quarters offensively... sask didn't do much better but... when it comes right down to it, they made less mistakes we did and executed when they had too and we did not. 

 

Could look at it this way too, Lirim was what? 3/3 or was it 2/2? i think 3/3 though... Well if 2 of those were TD's instead of FGS... we win. Can do that just about every game though, it's never just one thing. take away 6 add 14 oh snap 38-35 we win. Never just one play. 

[James]

I dont think its just a matter of wrapping up anymore... I saw some of our guys being dragged for close to 5 yards, and everyone else getting pushed around.

 

It's time Etchevary stopped being so damn Stubborn and played 2 LBers and a Nose Tackle. 

 

Wouldn't Mind seeing Turner at End more either... He did a pretty darn good job... 

[mbrg]

I dont think its just a matter of wrapping up anymore... I saw some of our guys being dragged for close to 5 yards, and everyone else getting pushed around.

 

It's time Etchevary stopped being so damn Stubborn and played 2 LBers and a Nose Tackle. 

 

Wouldn't Mind seeing Turner at End more either... He did a pretty darn good job... 

 

I don't claim to be a football expert and I don't have any game film, but here's what I see.  Or what I think I see.

 

The Rider Oline absolutely blew up our Dline.  They won almost all of their one on one battles and turned our linemen away from the running lane.  That typically left our linebackers in a situation where they have to be in the right spot at the right time and be mistake free to make the tackle pretty much one on one unassisted.  Easy enough to say that they are professional players and need to be able to do that, but the guys coming at them are professional players too.  If our Dline is unable to get a hand on a player or even narrow his running lane, our linebackers (who are on the smaller side) are meeting the runner in the lane when he already has about a 10 yard head of steam.

 

So you are right, a nose tackle and shifting another LB into the middle should solve that issue.  The thing is this defence is obviously designed to take away the pass thru both great coverage and confusing looks.  We'd love to be great against both the run and the pass, but being average against the run and the pass is a bad formula.  So if we're choosing between being great against the run or great against the pass, I agree with what OShea is saying (in not so many words), this is the CFL, we have a better chance of winning if we take away the pass.  I think our record substantiates that as well.

 

The compromise I would like Etch to make is to do away with the attempts to confuse the QB when the other team has so clearly shifted into a running game.  It doesn't matter what look you are showing if they are going to ram the ball down our throats.  Stack the box, play man coverage, the blitz isn't going to get there or help at this point.  Sneak the safety up if need be.

 

I'm fine with continuing to make pass defending our strength as a defense, there just has to be points in the game where we sell out to defend against the run.

[Nasty Nate]

I think Mike O'Shea has been the best thing to happen to this organization in many, many years. Places #1 against #2 which is firing Joe Mack out the bloody door. Walters is a good replace but he's young - he's also super-committed. Etcheverry was pretty much the only available d-coordinator out there (with experience) and he was a good fit as the bombers obviously suffer from mass-muscle and size deficiency on their d-line (Etch's specialty is temporary cover-ups of defensive deficiencies).

Suspect if Riders take us down at Banjo Bowl we'll end up being an 8-10 team. We really need to eviscerate the riders in front of a steaming hot home crowd but I have my doubts.

O'Shea knows his o-line and d-line are garbage - but he's also protecting his current roster by not admitting to defects. That's what the great coaches do. No doubt he's told Ky Walters and McManus privately to go get some heavy ballers. But for now, he must live with what he's got.

To be 6-4 and last week on precipice of being 7-3 is testimony to O'Shea's coaching potential.

Carrying a wild-minded hag like Etcheverry is what he's gonna do. I suspect he might want to get the d-guy from Toronto on board next year. Marcel might be a different story - he won't be getting many head coaching offers but there isn't much out there (other than Plop who's happy with the paycheques derived from TV)  that's better.

[Floyd]

I think Mike O'Shea has been the best thing to happen to this organization in many, many years. Places #1 against #2 which is firing Joe Mack out the bloody door. Walters is a good replace but he's young - he's also super-committed. Etcheverry was pretty much the only available d-coordinator out there (with experience) and he was a good fit as the bombers obviously suffer from mass-muscle and size deficiency on their d-line (Etch's specialty is temporary cover-ups of defensive deficiencies).

Suspect if Riders take us down at Banjo Bowl we'll end up being an 8-10 team. We really need to eviscerate the riders in front of a steaming hot home crowd but I have my doubts.

O'Shea knows his o-line and d-line are garbage - but he's also protecting his current roster by not admitting to defects. That's what the great coaches do. No doubt he's told Ky Walters and McManus privately to go get some heavy ballers. But for now, he must live with what he's got.

To be 6-4 and last week on precipice of being 7-3 is testimony to O'Shea's coaching potential.

Carrying a wild-minded hag like Etcheverry is what he's gonna do. I suspect he might want to get the d-guy from Toronto on board next year. Marcel might be a different story - he won't be getting many head coaching offers but there isn't much out there (other than Plop who's happy with the paycheques derived from TV)  that's better.

 

See, that's actually a decent post and wild-minded hag is funny.

 

But what Toronto D-Guy are you talking about?  I don't see a lot of D coordinators shaking loose this off-season... Etch is here for at least a couple years...

[M.O.A.B.]

 

I think Mike O'Shea has been the best thing to happen to this organization in many, many years. Places #1 against #2 which is firing Joe Mack out the bloody door. Walters is a good replace but he's young - he's also super-committed. Etcheverry was pretty much the only available d-coordinator out there (with experience) and he was a good fit as the bombers obviously suffer from mass-muscle and size deficiency on their d-line (Etch's specialty is temporary cover-ups of defensive deficiencies).

Suspect if Riders take us down at Banjo Bowl we'll end up being an 8-10 team. We really need to eviscerate the riders in front of a steaming hot home crowd but I have my doubts.

O'Shea knows his o-line and d-line are garbage - but he's also protecting his current roster by not admitting to defects. That's what the great coaches do. No doubt he's told Ky Walters and McManus privately to go get some heavy ballers. But for now, he must live with what he's got.

To be 6-4 and last week on precipice of being 7-3 is testimony to O'Shea's coaching potential.

Carrying a wild-minded hag like Etcheverry is what he's gonna do. I suspect he might want to get the d-guy from Toronto on board next year. Marcel might be a different story - he won't be getting many head coaching offers but there isn't much out there (other than Plop who's happy with the paycheques derived from TV)  that's better.

 

See, that's actually a decent post and wild-minded hag is funny.

 

But what Toronto D-Guy are you talking about?  I don't see a lot of D coordinators shaking loose this off-season... Etch is here for at least a couple years...

 

 

I dont how long his contract with ticats, but if Steinauer term will end after this season, O'shea will try to get him here.

[Floyd]

 

 

I think Mike O'Shea has been the best thing to happen to this organization in many, many years. Places #1 against #2 which is firing Joe Mack out the bloody door. Walters is a good replace but he's young - he's also super-committed. Etcheverry was pretty much the only available d-coordinator out there (with experience) and he was a good fit as the bombers obviously suffer from mass-muscle and size deficiency on their d-line (Etch's specialty is temporary cover-ups of defensive deficiencies).

Suspect if Riders take us down at Banjo Bowl we'll end up being an 8-10 team. We really need to eviscerate the riders in front of a steaming hot home crowd but I have my doubts.

O'Shea knows his o-line and d-line are garbage - but he's also protecting his current roster by not admitting to defects. That's what the great coaches do. No doubt he's told Ky Walters and McManus privately to go get some heavy ballers. But for now, he must live with what he's got.

To be 6-4 and last week on precipice of being 7-3 is testimony to O'Shea's coaching potential.

Carrying a wild-minded hag like Etcheverry is what he's gonna do. I suspect he might want to get the d-guy from Toronto on board next year. Marcel might be a different story - he won't be getting many head coaching offers but there isn't much out there (other than Plop who's happy with the paycheques derived from TV)  that's better.

 

See, that's actually a decent post and wild-minded hag is funny.

 

But what Toronto D-Guy are you talking about?  I don't see a lot of D coordinators shaking loose this off-season... Etch is here for at least a couple years...

 

 

I dont how long his contract with ticats, but if Steinauer term will end after this season, O'shea will try to get him here.

 

 

Steinhauer is the only DC with less focus on DL than Etcheverry...

[Fatty Liver]

I disagree whole heatedly with changing out the D.C. other than the two games with Sask. the D. has been the Bombers strength and even in those two games they've kept the score close enough to win and shut down Durant rather effectively.  As I've said before Sask. has a monster running game and it will require some positional tweaks and personnel upgrades to be able to deal with it more effectively.  Etch's next exam is slated for this Sunday, so we will see how smart he really is.

 

If Etch continually refuses to make the changes necessary to deal with the bigger Western teams ability to run than he does deserve to lose his job. 

[bearpants]

I think Mike O'Shea has been the best thing to happen to this organization in many, many years. Places #1 against #2 which is firing Joe Mack out the bloody door. Walters is a good replace but he's young - he's also super-committed. Etcheverry was pretty much the only available d-coordinator out there (with experience) and he was a good fit as the bombers obviously suffer from mass-muscle and size deficiency on their d-line (Etch's specialty is temporary cover-ups of defensive deficiencies).

Suspect if Riders take us down at Banjo Bowl we'll end up being an 8-10 team. We really need to eviscerate the riders in front of a steaming hot home crowd but I have my doubts.

O'Shea knows his o-line and d-line are garbage - but he's also protecting his current roster by not admitting to defects. That's what the great coaches do. No doubt he's told Ky Walters and McManus privately to go get some heavy ballers. But for now, he must live with what he's got.

To be 6-4 and last week on precipice of being 7-3 is testimony to O'Shea's coaching potential.

Carrying a wild-minded hag like Etcheverry is what he's gonna do. I suspect he might want to get the d-guy from Toronto on board next year. Marcel might be a different story - he won't be getting many head coaching offers but there isn't much out there (other than Plop who's happy with the paycheques derived from TV)  that's better.

 

Tim Burke? Is this some kind of sick joke?? 

[Nasty Nate]

Tim Burke? NO....

 

I was actually thinking of Steinhauer who I now realize is with Austin in Hamilton.

 

Noeller Thorpe would be another guy I'd try for if Steinhauer was too green.

 

No question Etcheverry gets the rest of the season to showcase his wares. If the bomber d continues to barf up big chunks of yardage and craps out in key late situations I suspect his term ends shortly after Game 18.

[Goalie]

Paul Friesen        ✔ @friesensunmedia

Why Mike O'Shea's late third-down decision in Regina was wrong. In your Thursday Sun. Or at http://winnipegsun.com

 

 

 

Well, i'm more convinced than ever that it was the right call.

[Floyd]

What is the sense of bringing in a guy - Steinhauer - who has even less focus on an aggressive defensive line than Etcheverry?  Hamilton actually uses a fairly similar but more conservative system than us.

[Nasty Nate]

What is the sense of bringing in a guy - Steinhauer - who has even less focus on an aggressive defensive line than Etcheverry?  Hamilton actually uses a fairly similar but more conservative system than us.

Steinhauer coached up that Hamilton defense to absolutely ravage the argos. Yeah, I know Ricky Ray didn't have Owens or any of his canuck scat backs but Hamilton just laid waste to the Toronto offense. After gaining his sea legs Steinhauer seems to be coming into his own. O'Shea knows a lot of guys but he's broken bread with Orlando before - might do so again if he figures there's no future in Etch.

If Milo gets fed up in Toronto without a practice facility and an owner who isn't putting much money into the team maybe he'd come here as O'Shea's OC . . . . now I know that's major dreaming!

[Jpan85]

Milanovich would probably headed back to Montreal as HC if he actually would want out of TO.

[pigseye]

I dont think its just a matter of wrapping up anymore... I saw some of our guys being dragged for close to 5 yards, and everyone else getting pushed around.

 

It's time Etchevary stopped being so damn Stubborn and played 2 LBers and a Nose Tackle. 

 

Wouldn't Mind seeing Turner at End more either... He did a pretty darn good job...

Yup, it's not like he'd have to start from scratch, Kuale is a waste of space in any defence.

[17to85]

 

Paul Friesen        ✔ @friesensunmedia

Why Mike O'Shea's late third-down decision in Regina was wrong. In your Thursday Sun. Or at http://winnipegsun.com

 

 

 

Well, i'm more convinced than ever that it was the right call.

 

If there's anyone who knows about wrong decisions it's Lapolice. 

[Nasty Nate]

 

 

Paul Friesen        ✔ @friesensunmedia

Why Mike O'Shea's late third-down decision in Regina was wrong. In your Thursday Sun. Or at http://winnipegsun.com

 

 

 

Well, i'm more convinced than ever that it was the right call.

 

If there's anyone who knows about wrong decisions it's Lapolice. 

 

I really, really like Plop but the last 3 minutes of any of his close games are destined for a CFL Coaching bloopers hi-lite reel. The guy really got antsy when the pressure torqued and always seemed to be on the verge of having his head explode! Well, at least it was entertaining. Watching mopes like Burke, Maggy Kelly, Ricky Campbell, Higgins, etc. is NOT entertaining. Two most entertaining guys on the sidelines this year are Chris Jones and MonkeyBoy (Benevides). Coaches like Hufnagel, Chamblin and O'Shea seem to have a high degree of self-control and they almost seem comatose at times.

[Bigblue204]

Milanovich would probably headed back to Montreal as HC if he actually would want out of TO.

I thought I read somewhere that he wasn't going to be taking another contract in TO....I'll try to find the link

[Bigblue204]

found it...but take it for what it's worth from Arash madani: Reading the tea leaves, if present #Argos ownership/leadership continues, my belief is Scott Milanovich won't return as head coach. #CFL

[Nasty Nate]

 

Milanovich would probably headed back to Montreal as HC if he actually would want out of TO.

I thought I read somewhere that he wasn't going to be taking another contract in TO....I'll try to find the link

 

If Milo exits Toronto I suspect its either head coach in Montreal or OC in Wpg. Let the Als have Marcel B. - O'Shea and Milanovich would be kegs of dyno mite...... that said, still need significant personnel upgrades.

[mfranc]

Milanovich would probably headed back to Montreal as HC if he actually would want out of TO.

I thought I read somewhere that he wasn't going to be taking another contract in TO....I'll try to find the link

If Milo exits Toronto I suspect its either head coach in Montreal or OC in Wpg. Let the Als have Marcel B. - O'Shea and Milanovich would be kegs of dyno mite...... that said, still need significant personnel upgrades.

Milanovich is pretty unlikely to take a coordinator gig at this point in time. Montreal does seem like a good bet.