Who said the run is not a problem?

[Tehedra]

I do agree with 17to85 on the fact that the Riders didn't play fantastic the last game either; our special teams lost it and their special teams won it.  Their defense didn't do great we had 360+ yards in passing and more yards in total and if I recall we held TOP.  This is not to say that the Riders are a bad team in fact I think they have a great team going.  But I do not believe they are so far a head of the rest of the West.  I honestly believe that all the teams in the West are playing at a similar level.  Someone will not make the play offs and it'll be disappointing because I'm sure the spread will be only 2 points and possibly only four or six points from first.  That to me is a very close race in the WEST, now I could be wrong and we end up losing every game but I don't see it. 

[mfranc]

I do agree with 17to85 on the fact that the Riders didn't play fantastic the last game either; our special teams lost it and their special teams won it.  Their defense didn't do great we had 360+ yards in passing and more yards in total and if I recall we held TOP.  This is not to say that the Riders are a bad team in fact I think they have a great team going.  But I do not believe they are so far a head of the rest of the West.  I honestly believe that all the teams in the West are playing at a similar level.  Someone will not make the play offs and it'll be disappointing because I'm sure the spread will be only 2 points and possibly only four or six points from first.  That to me is a very close race in the WEST, now I could be wrong and we end up losing every game but I don't see it. 

 

1. The way teams play with a lead is different from how they play when tied or behind.  Special team touchdowns gave the Riders the luxury of not having to force anything (especially key when Durant went down and a young Sunseri stepped in).

2.  Willy was fortunate that he didn't throw more interceptions IMO.  Most of the catches that were being made were thrown into excellent coverage with the Bomber receivers doing an amazing job with contested catches.  When Willy went to the well once too often the Rider secondary made the play.  The Rider's defence demonstrated the "bend but don't break" style that so many wanted to attribute to the Bombers in this game.

3.  Not sure if you are serious?  Calgary looks like the class of the West but based on their o-lines alone the Riders and Stamps are head and shoulders above the rest of the West.  That may have shifted with a lengthy Durant injury but Sunseri could do well with reps.  Time will tell.

[LeBird]

 

 

 

 

 

What was the end result goalie? All those stats are just little sub plots to help us with the end result, which was a loss

If we didn't have such a *****, schematically bad defence and could stop the run as well as the pass... We would have crushed them.

You are completely wrong. Look at where the Riders points came from in both games in Winnipeg. Offence didn't put up enough points in the first game and gave up 2 direct TDs, special teams did the same yesterday. If the O and ST don't hand the Riders points, both games in Winnipeg are easy Bomber wins even with 200 rushing yards against.

 

When a team has a big lead their approach to the game changes.  The only number that matters is the final score.

 

But that big lead didn't come from the Riders offense, it came from special teams.... The Bombers won the battle on offense and defense yesterday, they just lost the special teams battle in a very lopsided manner. A win is a win, but when dissecting why a loss was a loss you can delve deeper into it than simply the final score. Let me ask you this, as a Rider fan were you pleased with the way the Riders offense played? 

 

Yes.  Why?  Because they controlled the game on the ground and protected the lead in the second half even while losing their starting QB (who was 8 for 9 passing at that point). 

 

but they didn't protect the lead... the lead kept shrinking on them in the 2nd half and the only reason they had the lead to start with was because of the special teams plays... I'll point it out again, the Riders offense twice had chances to make first downs late to take time off the clock and twice they failed to do so giving the Bombers chances to win the game again. The Riders defense did more to keep the lead than the offense did. You are looking at the offense from the standpoint of "we won so it all worked out" which is flawed. You have to ignore the final score to properly look at how things went. 

 

That is not quite true. On the second try they had gained the first down but fumbled the ball.  

[blitzmore]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What was the end result goalie? All those stats are just little sub plots to help us with the end result, which was a loss

If we didn't have such a *****, schematically bad defence and could stop the run as well as the pass... We would have crushed them.

You are completely wrong. Look at where the Riders points came from in both games in Winnipeg. Offence didn't put up enough points in the first game and gave up 2 direct TDs, special teams did the same yesterday. If the O and ST don't hand the Riders points, both games in Winnipeg are easy Bomber wins even with 200 rushing yards against.

 

When a team has a big lead their approach to the game changes.  The only number that matters is the final score.

 

But that big lead didn't come from the Riders offense, it came from special teams.... The Bombers won the battle on offense and defense yesterday, they just lost the special teams battle in a very lopsided manner. A win is a win, but when dissecting why a loss was a loss you can delve deeper into it than simply the final score. Let me ask you this, as a Rider fan were you pleased with the way the Riders offense played? 

 

Yes.  Why?  Because they controlled the game on the ground and protected the lead in the second half even while losing their starting QB (who was 8 for 9 passing at that point). 

 

but they didn't protect the lead... the lead kept shrinking on them in the 2nd half and the only reason they had the lead to start with was because of the special teams plays... I'll point it out again, the Riders offense twice had chances to make first downs late to take time off the clock and twice they failed to do so giving the Bombers chances to win the game again. The Riders defense did more to keep the lead than the offense did. You are looking at the offense from the standpoint of "we won so it all worked out" which is flawed. You have to ignore the final score to properly look at how things went. 

 

 

The alarm bells will only ring for the RR fanbase when Calgary punts them by a large margin.  Of course they will blame it all on DD's injury.

 

Okay.  I find it rather amusing that the Bombers lose all three games, get run over in all three games and you still want to find fault with the team that beat the Bombers.  When the Rider offence needed to step up in the LDC they did it.  The last game?  They did an excellent job of controlling the tempo and winning the game after their starting QB went down.

 

The Stamps?  I recall the Riders losing 2 out of 3 to them last year and then kicking their arse in their own house on the way to a Grey Cup romp.  Regular season is just an audition.

 

Sunseri will do fine (he's looked rather good in limited time so with a week of reps he'll be ready).

 

You guy can focus on the Lions now.  For the record, I think the Bombers can mop the floor with them.

 

Cheers.

 

If you want us to focus on the Lions..then quit defending Sask all the time...you are sounding like a broken record!

[17to85]

 

 

 

 

 

 

What was the end result goalie? All those stats are just little sub plots to help us with the end result, which was a loss

If we didn't have such a *****, schematically bad defence and could stop the run as well as the pass... We would have crushed them.

You are completely wrong. Look at where the Riders points came from in both games in Winnipeg. Offence didn't put up enough points in the first game and gave up 2 direct TDs, special teams did the same yesterday. If the O and ST don't hand the Riders points, both games in Winnipeg are easy Bomber wins even with 200 rushing yards against.

 

When a team has a big lead their approach to the game changes.  The only number that matters is the final score.

 

But that big lead didn't come from the Riders offense, it came from special teams.... The Bombers won the battle on offense and defense yesterday, they just lost the special teams battle in a very lopsided manner. A win is a win, but when dissecting why a loss was a loss you can delve deeper into it than simply the final score. Let me ask you this, as a Rider fan were you pleased with the way the Riders offense played? 

 

Yes.  Why?  Because they controlled the game on the ground and protected the lead in the second half even while losing their starting QB (who was 8 for 9 passing at that point). 

 

but they didn't protect the lead... the lead kept shrinking on them in the 2nd half and the only reason they had the lead to start with was because of the special teams plays... I'll point it out again, the Riders offense twice had chances to make first downs late to take time off the clock and twice they failed to do so giving the Bombers chances to win the game again. The Riders defense did more to keep the lead than the offense did. You are looking at the offense from the standpoint of "we won so it all worked out" which is flawed. You have to ignore the final score to properly look at how things went. 

 

That is not quite true. On the second try they had gained the first down but fumbled the ball.  

 

which is still failing to do what they had to do...

[17to85]

Okay.  I find it rather amusing that the Bombers lose all three games, get run over in all three games and you still want to find fault with the team that beat the Bombers.  When the Rider offence needed to step up in the LDC they did it.  The last game?  They did an excellent job of controlling the tempo and winning the game after their starting QB went down.

 

but the only game it really was an issue as you said, was the Labour Day game where the Riders offense did march down field late to score. The first game in Winnipeg even with Messam running the Riders didn't generate **** for points and needed the turnovers from Winnipeg to get their points. Same deal in the Banjo Bowl. They needed the 2 majors from special teams to be able to win because for all the running the Riders did it didn't amount to much of anything on the score board. It didn't get them a win in the TOP battle so don't bring up this idea that they controlled the game either. It's good for the Riders that they took more advantage of the Bomber turnovers than the Bombers did the few turnovers that the Riders committed, but to suggest that the offense had any impact other than simply not turning the ball over too much is just making **** up. First game your defense won plain and simple, banjo bowl turned on special teams and only special teams. Running the ball doesn't mean a damn thing if your offense can't generate points on it's own. the Bombers were sloppy protecting the football and on special teams and it cost them 2 games they probably should have won, that's nothing to do with the Riders offense and if you are happy hoping that your D or special teams can out score opponents then keep on keeping on, I look forward to seeing the RIders and Esks games, it'll be fun to see if either team can outscore their respective Ds compared to their Os. 

[mbrg]

Running the ball doesn't mean a damn thing if your offense can't generate points on it's own.

 

 

It is a statistic.  Nothing more.  Sometimes it directly reflects what happened in a game, sometimes it does not.  Might as well look at a passer rating and try to do play-by-play off of it.

[HardCoreBlue]

 

Running the ball doesn't mean a damn thing if your offense can't generate points on it's own.

 

 

It is a statistic.  Nothing more.  Sometimes it directly reflects what happened in a game, sometimes it does not.  Might as well look at a passer rating and try to do play-by-play off of it.

 

Where would you place the importance of establishing a run, i.e, usually one indicator being yards produced?

 

My educated guess and a guess it is, is that usually when a QB throws for over 250/300 yds in a game, the run game has produced as well, say over 80 yds.

[17to85]

 

 

Running the ball doesn't mean a damn thing if your offense can't generate points on it's own.

 

 

It is a statistic.  Nothing more.  Sometimes it directly reflects what happened in a game, sometimes it does not.  Might as well look at a passer rating and try to do play-by-play off of it.

 

Where would you place the importance of establishing a run, i.e, usually one indicator being yards produced?

 

My educated guess and a guess it is, is that usually when a QB throws for over 250/300 yds in a game, the run game has produced as well, say over 80 yds.

 

Establishing the run is important, but being able to pass the ball is more important.If your passing game isn't effective you won't be able to consistently win. Big plays are very important. In some ways the Riders are Winning in the same way the Bomber were winning in 2011. Don't **** up by turning the ball over and count on the defense making enough big plays to win the game. We all saw how sustainable that was. 

[Mr Dee]

That is not quite true. On the second try they had gained the first down but fumbled the ball.  

 

 

 

Actually, there is no way to know if they got the first down or not. Messam got hit just before the 1st down marker, and it's been suggested..he didn't get it.

[Mr Dee]

 

I do agree with 17to85 on the fact that the Riders didn't play fantastic the last game either; our special teams lost it and their special teams won it.  Their defense didn't do great we had 360+ yards in passing and more yards in total and if I recall we held TOP.  This is not to say that the Riders are a bad team in fact I think they have a great team going.  But I do not believe they are so far a head of the rest of the West.  I honestly believe that all the teams in the West are playing at a similar level.  Someone will not make the play offs and it'll be disappointing because I'm sure the spread will be only 2 points and possibly only four or six points from first.  That to me is a very close race in the WEST, now I could be wrong and we end up losing every game but I don't see it. 

 

 

2.  Willy was fortunate that he didn't throw more interceptions IMO.  Most of the catches that were being made were thrown into excellent coverage with the Bomber receivers doing an amazing job with contested catches.  When Willy went to the well once too often the Rider secondary made the play.  The Rider's defence demonstrated the "bend but don't break" style that so many wanted to attribute to the Bombers in this game.

 

 

Once again, an exaggeration. 

The Rider secondary was beat, plain and simple. The ball was severely under thrown.

What can be said is that the D-line forced an unbalanced throw that Willy should have eaten or thrown into the dirt.

 

And speaking of this play, for those who were blaming Bryant for not fighting for the ball, the ball was in the air already while Bryant was streaking past the defenders.

There was no way for him to stop, and get back to the ball in time.

Another second for Willy…and that's a TD.

[James]

The reason some of us are so adamant that we want the run game and run defense fixed is because its integral to the success of your team. If we don't get our overall run game fixed, I bet we miss the playoffs

 

If we somehow make the playoffs, it'll be the reason for a quick exit.

[mfranc]

The reason some of us are so adamant that we want the run game and run defense fixed is because its integral to the success of your team. If we don't get our overall run game fixed, I bet we miss the playoffs

 

If we somehow make the playoffs, it'll be the reason for a quick exit.

The good news is that Etch's defences have, in the past, really stepped it up against the run the closer it gets to the playoffs.

[Logan007]

 

The reason some of us are so adamant that we want the run game and run defense fixed is because its integral to the success of your team. If we don't get our overall run game fixed, I bet we miss the playoffs

 

If we somehow make the playoffs, it'll be the reason for a quick exit.

The good news is that Etch's defences have, in the past, really stepped it up against the run the closer it gets to the playoffs.

 

Probably because running is all you can do in -20 weather. 

[bearpants]

I agree with most that Riders did not play a perfect game... but they found a way to win and that's what good teams do... like we all agreed on after the Montreal win, winning ugly is better than losing pretty...

[bearpants]

 

 

I do agree with 17to85 on the fact that the Riders didn't play fantastic the last game either; our special teams lost it and their special teams won it.  Their defense didn't do great we had 360+ yards in passing and more yards in total and if I recall we held TOP.  This is not to say that the Riders are a bad team in fact I think they have a great team going.  But I do not believe they are so far a head of the rest of the West.  I honestly believe that all the teams in the West are playing at a similar level.  Someone will not make the play offs and it'll be disappointing because I'm sure the spread will be only 2 points and possibly only four or six points from first.  That to me is a very close race in the WEST, now I could be wrong and we end up losing every game but I don't see it. 

 

 

2.  Willy was fortunate that he didn't throw more interceptions IMO.  Most of the catches that were being made were thrown into excellent coverage with the Bomber receivers doing an amazing job with contested catches.  When Willy went to the well once too often the Rider secondary made the play.  The Rider's defence demonstrated the "bend but don't break" style that so many wanted to attribute to the Bombers in this game.

 

 

Once again, an exaggeration. 

The Rider secondary was beat, plain and simple. The ball was severely under thrown.

What can be said is that the D-line forced an unbalanced throw that Willy should have eaten or thrown into the dirt.

 

And speaking of this play, for those who were blaming Bryant for not fighting for the ball, the ball was in the air already while Bryant was streaking past the defenders.

There was no way for him to stop, and get back to the ball in time.

Another second for Willy…and that's a TD.

 

 

After watching the replay I think I would agree with you... my initial impression was that he shoulda fought back to knock it down... but on further review it looked like there wasn't much he could do...

[bearpants]

The reason some of us are so adamant that we want the run game and run defense fixed is because its integral to the success of your team. If we don't get our overall run game fixed, I bet we miss the playoffs

 

If we somehow make the playoffs, it'll be the reason for a quick exit.

 

Maybe not if we finish in the coveted 4th place cross over spot!

[mfranc]

The reason some of us are so adamant that we want the run game and run defense fixed is because its integral to the success of your team. If we don't get our overall run game fixed, I bet we miss the playoffs

 

If we somehow make the playoffs, it'll be the reason for a quick exit.

The good news is that Etch's defences have, in the past, really stepped it up against the run the closer it gets to the playoffs.

Probably because running is all you can do in -20 weather. 

His schemes became much more conventional as the season progressed.

[SmokinBlue]

I do agree with 17to85 on the fact that the Riders didn't play fantastic the last game either; our special teams lost it and their special teams won it. Their defense didn't do great we had 360+ yards in passing and more yards in total and if I recall we held TOP. This is not to say that the Riders are a bad team in fact I think they have a great team going. But I do not believe they are so far a head of the rest of the West. I honestly believe that all the teams in the West are playing at a similar level. Someone will not make the play offs and it'll be disappointing because I'm sure the spread will be only 2 points and possibly only four or six points from first. That to me is a very close race in the WEST, now I could be wrong and we end up losing every game but I don't see it.

2. Willy was fortunate that he didn't throw more interceptions IMO. Most of the catches that were being made were thrown into excellent coverage with the Bomber receivers doing an amazing job with contested catches. When Willy went to the well once too often the Rider secondary made the play. The Rider's defence demonstrated the "bend but don't break" style that so many wanted to attribute to the Bombers in this game.

Once again, an exaggeration.

The Rider secondary was beat, plain and simple. The ball was severely under thrown.

What can be said is that the D-line forced an unbalanced throw that Willy should have eaten or thrown into the dirt.

And speaking of this play, for those who were blaming Bryant for not fighting for the ball, the ball was in the air already while Bryant was streaking past the defenders.

There was no way for him to stop, and get back to the ball in time.

Another second for Willy…and that's a TD.

actually there was hardly any pressure on willy on that play. It looked like he made up his mind to throw it there before the ball was snapped. He didn't even look if his receiver was open before throwing it and he barely even looked long enough to know where his receiver was or how well covered he was, so it's no surprise the throw wasn't even close and the ball was easily picked off. Gift to the riders through a brain dead play from willy from top to bottom. Before the ball even left his hand I was screaming nooooooooo.

[Jpan85]

Ummm Willy said him self after the game that he saw Romby open and that he did not get enough on the ball other wise it would be TD. But I guess from your couch you can see exactly what Willy was seeing.

[17to85]

Ummm Willy said him self after the game that he saw Romby open and that he did not get enough on the ball other wise it would be TD. But I guess from your couch you can see exactly what Willy was seeing.

yeah it was clearly a play where if you get the ball over the top there's a chance for the receiver to make the play. I just didn't like the thought of actually trying to score the TD in one play there. There was time, they coulda worked it down a bit more methodically. 

[SmokinBlue]

That's the dumb part, cfl is a game where you can't give the other team time to deliver one last punch. Have to work the clock smart. And willy be a liar Bryant was never open on that play.

[Mr Dee]

 

Once again, an exaggeration.

The Rider secondary was beat, plain and simple. The ball was severely under thrown.

What can be said is that the D-line forced an unbalanced throw that Willy should have eaten or thrown into the dirt.

And speaking of this play, for those who were blaming Bryant for not fighting for the ball, the ball was in the air already while Bryant was streaking past the defenders.

There was no way for him to stop, and get back to the ball in time.

Another second for Willy…and that's a TD.

actually there was hardly any pressure on willy on that play. It looked like he made up his mind to throw it there before the ball was snapped. He didn't even look if his receiver was open before throwing it and he barely even looked long enough to know where his receiver was or how well covered he was, so it's no surprise the throw wasn't even close and the ball was easily picked off. Gift to the riders through a brain dead play from willy from top to bottom. Before the ball even left his hand I was screaming nooooooooo.

 

 

You're going to have to look at the play again. 

Willy did know where he was going, he knew the play, he just under threw it.

Why? Willy was slightly off balance because he was being pressured from the left side (slightly) but more so, pressured by Terrell Maze who was blitzing.

On that play, Grigsby had already picked up another rusher, so Maze was free.

If Willy planted better, his throw would have had more force.

 

And you're in error about Denmark. When a receiver is partly into his route, he may not look open, but when the ball is thrown correctly, they run under it and make the catch. Such is the case here.

 

Unfortunately, Kelly was crossing, open, over the middle, twelve yards deep and easily would have had twenty yards.

 

Ah, hindsight.

[mfranc]

actually there was hardly any pressure on willy on that play. It looked like he made up his mind to throw it there before the ball was snapped. He didn't even look if his receiver was open before throwing it and he barely even looked long enough to know where his receiver was or how well covered he was, so it's no surprise the throw wasn't even close and the ball was easily picked off. Gift to the riders through a brain dead play from willy from top to bottom. Before the ball even left his hand I was screaming nooooooooo.

There was big time pressure on Willy from Marshay Green. That's why the ball was under thrown and probably why he threw into double coverage.

[Goalie]

actually there was hardly any pressure on willy on that play. It looked like he made up his mind to throw it there before the ball was snapped. He didn't even look if his receiver was open before throwing it and he barely even looked long enough to know where his receiver was or how well covered he was, so it's no surprise the throw wasn't even close and the ball was easily picked off. Gift to the riders through a brain dead play from willy from top to bottom. Before the ball even left his hand I was screaming nooooooooo.

There was big time pressure on Willy from Marshay Green. That's why the ball was under thrown and probably why he threw into double coverage.

I agree. People need to watch the replay again and see the guy pretty much right in Willys face as he's throwing the ball. Had to scramble around a bit too so he didn't take a sack earlier in the play. It wasn't just step up and throw, it was step up, scramble a bit, throw with a guy in his face.