Jets Lineup?

[The Unknown Poster]

 

 

Im usually a glass-half-full guy and while Rinne and Hillier were both good, the Jets have shown little effort and passion. It raises the old question about the heart of the core of the team. Blake Wheeler is out there fighting guys, cross checking guys, skating around with a scowl on his face. What's Andrew Ladd doing?

Collecting a pay cheque? The team definitely lacks leadership on the ice and on the bench.

 

Just curious, but based on what? I'm not necessarily defending Andrew Ladd but needed Leadership comes in many different forms other than smashing guys in the face and looking mean.

 

Ive been a huge Ladd fan for years and I always defended the "lack of leadership" argument by saying the same thing - that leadership comes in different forms.  We've been told Ladd is a "quiet leader" who leads by example.  Okay, so be it.  And Im not a chicken little after five games.  But what leadership has Ladd shown by example?  A great leader is whatever the troops need him to be.

 

I would look at Wheeler's actions and see a guy embracing the "A" on his chest and clearly frustrated.  Then you've got guys like Scheif and Lowry who are just working their tails off every time they're on the ice.  Its the same old story with this team - lack of effort, lack of heart. 

 

One of Ladd, Buff, Enstrom, Bogo has to go.  maybe more than one.  And the only reason I include Enstrom, who I like, in that list is because his skills will be well sought after and could fetch a good return.  Also, he isnt the type of D we need right now.  But Ladd and Buff are both called guys that can change the game when they want to.  But they rarely seem to want to.  People are now demanding Buff be moved back to D.  Okay, well, remember how wonderful that worked out?  Sure, he's deadly on D in the offensive zone.  Unfortunately he's also deadly to the Jets on D in the defensive zone.

 

Of the core, Bryan Little is a warrior.  Ladd used to be.  The last thing we want is the kids coming up, like Scheif, Trouba, Lowry to follow in the footsteps of the "core".

 

We need a new core.  I'd trade Ladd and Buff, move the "C" to Little or Wheeler, put an "A" on Scheif or Trouba and let the "young" core lead the team and that includes Kane who may or may not be a prick off the ice and may or may not be one dimensional on the nice but you never question his heart.

[Goalie]

Bogo shows a lot of heart too, he sticks up for his team mates out there, gotta like seeing that.

 

Ladd? seems frustrated, seems distracted too tho.

 

Wheeler? Give him the C

 

Give Scheif an A

 

I'd give BOGO and A too.. 

 

Seems silly to talk about trading bogo and toby, who is our first pair D then? Trouba and Stuart? You can't trade BOGO, he's too young and shows way too much heart out there.

 

Ladd tho,Buff, Toby.. They aren't in that under 24 group, can't trade all the over 24 year olds but... Those 3 would be a good start, it would shake up the group, let them know they are being held accountable. Do have to admit tho,  when THorburn is on your 3rd line, yeah you got some issues.

 

Honestly tho, The Jets have given up 15 goals, legit right in the middle of the pack, The D isn't so much the issue right now, the lack of scoring is.

 

What can Ladd get you in a trade? it would have to be significant, same with BUFF and same with Toby for that matter.. 

 

I'm fine with moving those 3, but... you better get something huge in return, if you move Toby, you need to get a LHD in return, can't have stuart playing on the first pair, Trouba has struggled so far but has shown some flashes so i wouldn't trade BOGo.

 

Fact is tho, its 5 games in and there is still time to turn things around, if we are like this nearing christmas time, then yeah i'd consider moving several guys... not the under 24 or 25 guys and not wheeler or little but the rest, definitely.

 

Untouchables in my opinion

 

Forwards

 

Scheif,Kane,Wheeler,Little,Perreault,Lowry

 

D

 

Bogo,Trouba

 

The rest?

 

If it keeps going like the way it has been, they all can go but some of them need to get you some significant pieces plus a first round pick in 2015. 

 

I only trade Buff Toby and Ladd if i get something significant in return and that includes a 1st rd pick in 2015. 

[The Unknown Poster]

Buff gets the highest return and likely he's the easiest for us to absorb the loss of.  So trading Buff probably makes us the most improved over trading anyone else.  Philly has long been rumoured to want Buff (or Bogo).  Can Buff get us Brayden Schenn? 

 

Ladd would be highly sought after too.  A 30 goal scorer who has won a cup and is still reputed to be a leader.  Trading Ladd & Buff would be a HUGE message and signal the changing of the guard from it being "their" team (they are very close personally) to it being the "new kids" team.  It would be Kane, Scheif, Wheeler (not really a new kid), Trouba, Bogo.  And the thing about that as a new core, those guys dont take nights off.  The "old" core does.  Dont forget Little who is very underated. Would not want to lose him.

[Goalie]

Buff gets the highest return and likely he's the easiest for us to absorb the loss of.  So trading Buff probably makes us the most improved over trading anyone else.  Philly has long been rumoured to want Buff (or Bogo).  Can Buff get us Brayden Schenn? 

 

Ladd would be highly sought after too.  A 30 goal scorer who has won a cup and is still reputed to be a leader.  Trading Ladd & Buff would be a HUGE message and signal the changing of the guard from it being "their" team (they are very close personally) to it being the "new kids" team.  It would be Kane, Scheif, Wheeler (not really a new kid), Trouba, Bogo.  And the thing about that as a new core, those guys dont take nights off.  The "old" core does.  Dont forget Little who is very underated. Would not want to lose him.

 

Brayden Schenn is a center, something we don't need. The reason that trade hasn't happened is because it's not realistic and because it's been reported by Eklund, who is not the most reliable rumor guy out there. Schenn? Pass... Voracek? Read? a 1st? maybe but Schenn? no need for him. 

[Floyd]

For the price that Jokinen was signed by the Preds, we could have kept him here as insurance or as fourth line.  The guy was a good leader on the bench.  That was a mistake.

 

At this rate, Petan and Morrisey will be back sooner than later.

[The Unknown Poster]

jokinen is the answer? Oh come on.

[Floyd]

jokinen is the answer? Oh come on.

 

Nope, not the answer...  but neither is Slater

[Goalie]

 

jokinen is the answer? Oh come on.

 

Nope, not the answer...  but neither is Slater

 

Big difference here. Slater is a 4th line center, Jokinen is not. Jokinen wouldn't want to play 4th line minutes. It's just how it is. In Nashville i believe he is the 2nd line center even. He was never offered a contract here and rightfully so but no way he would have accepted 4th line minutes. Not a chance. Can believe he would have all you like but reality is, he's 2nd line center in Nashville getting 15-20 minutes a game, here? he'd get 7 or 8 minutes a game. Not worth it to pay him that much to be a 4th line center. Plus he really wasn't very good at winning face-offs and that's actually one of the things slater does pretty well. 

[Floyd]

 

 

jokinen is the answer? Oh come on.

 

Nope, not the answer...  but neither is Slater

 

Big difference here. Slater is a 4th line center, Jokinen is not. Jokinen wouldn't want to play 4th line minutes. It's just how it is. In Nashville i believe he is the 2nd line center even. He was never offered a contract here and rightfully so but no way he would have accepted 4th line minutes. Not a chance. Can believe he would have all you like but reality is, he's 2nd line center in Nashville getting 15-20 minutes a game, here? he'd get 7 or 8 minutes a game. Not worth it to pay him that much to be a 4th line center. Plus he really wasn't very good at winning face-offs and that's actually one of the things slater does pretty well. 

 

 

Didn't realize you and Oli were so close...  

 

I think offering Jokinen 3rd-4th line minutes and a transition to player-coach would have been a very attractive deal.

[Goalie]

 

 

 

jokinen is the answer? Oh come on.

 

Nope, not the answer...  but neither is Slater

 

Big difference here. Slater is a 4th line center, Jokinen is not. Jokinen wouldn't want to play 4th line minutes. It's just how it is. In Nashville i believe he is the 2nd line center even. He was never offered a contract here and rightfully so but no way he would have accepted 4th line minutes. Not a chance. Can believe he would have all you like but reality is, he's 2nd line center in Nashville getting 15-20 minutes a game, here? he'd get 7 or 8 minutes a game. Not worth it to pay him that much to be a 4th line center. Plus he really wasn't very good at winning face-offs and that's actually one of the things slater does pretty well. 

 

 

Didn't realize you and Oli were so close...  

 

I think offering Jokinen 3rd-4th line minutes and a transition to player-coach would have been a very attractive deal.

 

Honestly, that first line could be used on you too. 

 

Jokinen wouldn't be playing third line here tho, he's not better than Little Scheif or Perreault.. He's just not. He'd be 4th line. Seriously, In Nashville he is playing 2nd line minutes and getting paid more than he would have here playing 3rd lol but more than likely 4th line minutes. He wouldn't have signed here. Plus reality, Jokinen wasn't very good here. He was actually a bust. 

[Floyd]

Perrault has already been moved to wing.  I agree that Jokinen was a bust for what we paid him but at 2.5 he is decent value.  This team needs a leader.

 

Anyway, we probably needed to sign or trade for a higher profile player in the off-season, the core we have right now is just not quite good enough.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

 

 

jokinen is the answer? Oh come on.

 

Nope, not the answer...  but neither is Slater

 

Big difference here. Slater is a 4th line center, Jokinen is not. Jokinen wouldn't want to play 4th line minutes. It's just how it is. In Nashville i believe he is the 2nd line center even. He was never offered a contract here and rightfully so but no way he would have accepted 4th line minutes. Not a chance. Can believe he would have all you like but reality is, he's 2nd line center in Nashville getting 15-20 minutes a game, here? he'd get 7 or 8 minutes a game. Not worth it to pay him that much to be a 4th line center. Plus he really wasn't very good at winning face-offs and that's actually one of the things slater does pretty well. 

 

 

Didn't realize you and Oli were so close...  

 

I think offering Jokinen 3rd-4th line minutes and a transition to player-coach would have been a very attractive deal.

 

To whom?  He wouldnt have taken that deal when a team like Nashville was offering him more.  And it would have hurt our team.  Slater is a better 4th line Centre than Jokinen.  Perrault is a better 3rd line centre than Jokinen.  And Lowry is certainly too.

[Atomic]

Everything is fine. This is the transition phase to the new core. It will be bumpy for the next year or two but should start paying dividends afterwards. The five year plan was a plan to make the playoffs in five years and stay there for the next decade. This is year 4. Just needs a little more time.

[SPuDS]

I believe that we are on our way to be competitive and continue to be competitive for season after season.. Not a big splash to push for one year then suck for many more... Small market teams like ours cannot afford to new York Yankee our way to the playoffs and beyond.. We need to build a stacked deck of very good players and roll the lines to grind down other teams.. This concept also requires exceptional depth to take injuries in stride and not lose momentum.. Depth and great core of grinders... Hopefully we see the fruition of our rocky road in a year or two..

[The Unknown Poster]

How about Enstrom for Eberle?

[FrostyWinnipeg]

The only player ED would want for Eberle is Bogo.

 

Funny how everyone is focusing on Eberle. Come to think of it, i've wanted Eberle for years myself.

[Goalie]

Problem with trading Enstrom is stuart becomes the number 1 LH d man. That's a problem. 

[The Unknown Poster]

Good point. Bogo for eberly works for me.

[Goalie]

Good point. Bogo for eberly works for me.

 

Doesn't work for the Jets tho or the Oilers i'm sure who probably will not trade Eberle ever.

 

Eberle and Hall and RNH are probably the untouchables on Edmonton.

 

It's funny...

 

Our offense isn't really the issue, it has been so far this year but reality is we do put up goals, we are league average if not just above it in terms of scoring for the most part, last year we had what? 6 or so 20 ++ goal scorers was it? maybe 5 but one had 19... 

 

Offense isn't the issue for this team and this is a total panic trade right here just cuz we have struggled to score this year.. Eberle sure is lighting it up tho isn't he with his zero goals as of 2 days ago... 

 

Man, Eberle would be nice but not for Bogo.. Bogo at worst is a top 4 d man, D are much harder to find than forwards... MUCH HARDER and actually don't really come in to their own until later in their careers generally, Not comparing Bogo to Shea Weber cuz not even close but.. Weber really didn't come in to his own until several years in to his career, the guy spent several years in the AHL... he wasn't rushed to the NHL like bogo was also.

 

Bogo is at worst a top 4 dman on this team.. Again you trade bogo and who? trouba takes his spot? then who takes troubas spot/ postma? pardy? puhlllease. 

 

You don't trade a guy like BOGO for a defensive liability like eberle, and i like eberle but you just don't do that... 

 

Ladd,Little,Wheeler,

Kane,Scheif,Eberle

Lowry,Perreault,Frolik?

 

Solid Group... I'd trade Buff for him... but not a dman, that's crazy talk

 

Trouba,Enstrom?

Postma,Stuart?

Pardy,Clitsome?

 

Man that's awful right there...

 

Solid offensive group tho... but basically what we are doing is loading up on forwards and ignoring the D... yet we are making this hypothetical trade with a team who has done just that, loaded up on forwards and ignored the D and how has that been working for Edmonton?? Not so good

 

It's odd to me, I like eberle, i do, i'd love to have him here but not for a still young and developing at worst top 4 d man. That's insanity actually and hurts the team way more than it helps that's for sure.

[The Unknown Poster]

Eberle is mentioned quite often as the guy the Oilers might trade to get better.  They will likely have to trade one of their "untouchables" at some point.

 

I do think Buff will be traded at some point.  Even if he was a consistently good player, which he isnt, it just doesnt make sense to carry his salary at this stage of the Jets' development unless they think the team will contend within 3-4 years and having the old man on the team would be a "feel good" story.  The laws of diminishing returns applies to Buff and I think there is an opportunity to soak a team of some good assets at the deadline.

 

Andrew Ladd is my surprise prediction though I dont actually think he'll be traded.  He's falling into the Buff category as a player who too often seems disinterested.  The fact he's the Captain isnt good when that happens.  People talk about the Atlanta core and breaking them up but you're starting to see a change in that group.  Wheeler, Little, Kane give 100% virtually every game.  Buff & Ladd disappear too often.  I wonder if its a coincedence that those two are very close friends also and what it would do to the dynamic to trade one of them.

[Rod Black]

Eberle is mentioned quite often as the guy the Oilers might trade to get better.  They will likely have to trade one of their "untouchables" at some point.

 

I do think Buff will be traded at some point.  Even if he was a consistently good player, which he isnt, it just doesnt make sense to carry his salary at this stage of the Jets' development unless they think the team will contend within 3-4 years and having the old man on the team would be a "feel good" story.  The laws of diminishing returns applies to Buff and I think there is an opportunity to soak a team of some good assets at the deadline.

 

Andrew Ladd is my surprise prediction though I dont actually think he'll be traded.  He's falling into the Buff category as a player who too often seems disinterested.  The fact he's the Captain isnt good when that happens.  People talk about the Atlanta core and breaking them up but you're starting to see a change in that group.  Wheeler, Little, Kane give 100% virtually every game.  Buff & Ladd disappear too often.  I wonder if its a coincedence that those two are very close friends also and what it would do to the dynamic to trade one of them.

You may be onto something with Ladd being an issue, but the difficulty it might create by trading him at this point could erode some confidence that fans have in Chevy. Aside from trade talk, I'm wondering whether some visible signals outside of a trade, and outside of the dressing room to carry a message that all players need to be engaged, all the time. What happens when the "C" changes jerseys from one to another? Wheeler as a captain? I like his leadership this year. Scheif might be too young for an "a", but his performance is impressive so far this year.

[The Unknown Poster]

The only way Ladd loses the "C" is a trade. It would be a worse move to strip him.

[Atomic]

Kane back tonight.  Should help a lot.  Moves Perreault back down to the third line and Thorburn to the 4th (thank god...).  Jets only have one goal from their bottom-six thus far and the Scheifele line hasn't been all we've wanted it to be... hopefully Kane can stay healthy for awhile.

[The Unknown Poster]

Kane back tonight.  Should help a lot.  Moves Perreault back down to the third line and Thorburn to the 4th (thank god...).  Jets only have one goal from their bottom-six thus far and the Scheifele line hasn't been all we've wanted it to be... hopefully Kane can stay healthy for awhile.

Scheif's been absolutely snakebit though.  He generates plenty of opportunities.  Hopefully it starts clicking for him.  He should have ten points already.

[Atomic]

 

Kane back tonight.  Should help a lot.  Moves Perreault back down to the third line and Thorburn to the 4th (thank god...).  Jets only have one goal from their bottom-six thus far and the Scheifele line hasn't been all we've wanted it to be... hopefully Kane can stay healthy for awhile.

Scheif's been absolutely snakebit though.  He generates plenty of opportunities.  Hopefully it starts clicking for him.  He should have ten points already.

 

 

No argument here.  He'll get hot eventually.