Lawless: Bombers need to sign Ben Heenan

[Mike]

The upcoming CFL draft has a lot of good OL prospects projected to go in the first round. Maybe Walters can trade a current roster player for a first rounder??

Do we have anyone we'd be willing to trade who could fetch us anything close to a first? I'd be more than willing to give up a guy like Watson, but he probably only gets us a third rounder or so.

Maybe Watson and January for a first??

January has zero trade value

[JuranBoldenRules]

Probably can't trade Watson either.  He'll get injured on the flight to his new city and flunk the physical.

 

It's too bad.

[Dr. Blue]

I wonder if FAs will be more likely to leave Toronto this off season, mostly because of how the organization has been run this year, like a gong show.

If the rumors are true, some players are sick of it.

[Fatty Liver]

Do we have anyone we'd be willing to trade who could fetch us anything close to a first?
 

 

Willy might get them a first rounder.

[sweep the leg]

Probably can't trade Watson either.  He'll get injured on the flight to his new city and flunk the physical.

 

It's too bad.

I don't think that's true unless we're paying him an obscene amount of money. We won't get much value for him, but I have to believe he'd be worth a mid-round pick.

 

I agree January has no trade value though. He makes a lot of money and hasn't been very good this season. I'm not sure how many teams he'd be an upgrade for.

[blueingreenland]

For the last flipping time Gary Lawless...there was no way Brendan Labatte was going to stay in Winnipeg. We could have offered him 300,000 and he still would have gone back to SK. Labatte said all the right things when he was drafted by the Bombers about not really being a Rider fan growing up - it wasn't true. He is Green all the way through and his family is from SK and are huge Rider fans and his racing business is in Weyburn and his girlfriend is there. Sorry - he was going to free agency - Mack made a lot of bone-headed moves but this was not one of them - he couldn"t have re-signed him.  Let's build through the draft and let's get some Manitoba boys here and leave the Regina boys alone.

[SPuDS]

I think january would have some value but not very much.. 3rd or 4th rounder at the most..

Watson is valuable contrary to popular belief.. He could be an excellent backup and ST guy.. He just doesnt seem to have the body to roll as a full time, full contact player anymore unfortunately..

With that in mind, unless we got exceptional value for him id be hesitant to move him as our depth is so damn atrocious.. So a higher round draft pick or solid backup stuck behind great depth would be what id want back..

[Ripper]

For the last flipping time Gary Lawless...there was no way Brendan Labatte was going to stay in Winnipeg. We could have offered him 300,000 and he still would have gone back to SK. Labatte said all the right things when he was drafted by the Bombers about not really being a Rider fan growing up - it wasn't true. He is Green all the way through and his family is from SK and are huge Rider fans and his racing business is in Weyburn and his girlfriend is there. Sorry - he was going to free agency - Mack made a lot of bone-headed moves but this was not one of them - he couldn"t have re-signed him.  Let's build through the draft and let's get some Manitoba boys here and leave the Regina boys alone.

A few comments on your post. First of all, I live in the same community that Brendan is from and from what I've been told, he really liked Winnipeg. Its only a 4 1/2 hr drive from here. Rumours they wanted to move him to center may have been a factor.  I have never spoke to him about it even though I know him, out of respect to his privacy.  What I post is strictly my opinion.  There were Bomber jerseys hanging in every bar and restaurant in town, because everyone here was/is dam proud to see him playing pro ball. His parents are rider fans but I've seen them at many games wearing their Bomber jerseys like any proud parents/family would. Would anyone expect any less.  In the 2008 draft we took Shologan 4th and pasted on Brendan when we could have drafted him.  In now way, shape or form could I possibly say I know that he would have stayed or not, but I do find it odd to read that others are positive that he wouldn't have.  Currently there are Stamps jerseys hanging too with Jones on them. Our little town has turned out 3 olineman in the past 5 years. 

  Using Neufeld as a example, his parents are long time season ticket holders and sit right behind the rider bench as they have for years.  Paddy basically got hurt and in the mean time Heenan came in and took that job and owned it. Paddy now is in a good situation with the bombers and everyone here is happy and proud of him. Wishing him every success in the world for a long and healthy career. I believe he is very good and was sorry to see him go.

  Just this year we lost Zack Evans to Ottawa via the draft. He is a free agent at years end and I'm sure I'm not the only one that was hoping he would return this winter to play for the Riders. He re-signed a bit ago and opted to stay in Ottawa. He likes it there and its a good situation for him. Again, no hard feelings here, Wishing him the best of luck. 

  Long storey short, Manitoba and Sask aren't that far apart, being in one or the other offers great opportunities for family and friends to stay close and still come watch games.  For a Manitoba kid that didn't get a chance to play for the bombers, would it not be at least reasonable to suggest being right next door in Sask would be the next best thing?  just my 2 cents, no hard feelings were intended.

[James]

I think Watson and Morely are our best options for trade bait and getting anything in return.

 

Watson might be able to get us Ottawa's second rounder... They have brutal receivers and Watson is a legitimately good Canadian.

 

Morely, while super mediocre at Guard and bad at Tackle, is a pretty darn good center. Wouldn't even consider trading him if we didn't pick Goosen this year though. 

 

I don't think Neufeld is good enough to be a starter for us, but He'd make a good 6th OL for us next season.

 

We need to hit the jack pot in next years draft as far as OL.

[17to85]

 

For the last flipping time Gary Lawless...there was no way Brendan Labatte was going to stay in Winnipeg. We could have offered him 300,000 and he still would have gone back to SK. Labatte said all the right things when he was drafted by the Bombers about not really being a Rider fan growing up - it wasn't true. He is Green all the way through and his family is from SK and are huge Rider fans and his racing business is in Weyburn and his girlfriend is there. Sorry - he was going to free agency - Mack made a lot of bone-headed moves but this was not one of them - he couldn"t have re-signed him.  Let's build through the draft and let's get some Manitoba boys here and leave the Regina boys alone.

A few comments on your post. First of all, I live in the same community that Brendan is from and from what I've been told, he really liked Winnipeg. Its only a 4 1/2 hr drive from here. Rumours they wanted to move him to center may have been a factor.  I have never spoke to him about it even though I know him, out of respect to his privacy.  What I post is strictly my opinion.  There were Bomber jerseys hanging in every bar and restaurant in town, because everyone here was/is dam proud to see him playing pro ball. His parents are rider fans but I've seen them at many games wearing their Bomber jerseys like any proud parents/family would. Would anyone expect any less.  In the 2008 draft we took Shologan 4th and pasted on Brendan when we could have drafted him.  In now way, shape or form could I possibly say I know that he would have stayed or not, but I do find it odd to read that others are positive that he wouldn't have.  Currently there are Stamps jerseys hanging too with Jones on them. Our little town has turned out 3 olineman in the past 5 years. 

  Using Neufeld as a example, his parents are long time season ticket holders and sit right behind the rider bench as they have for years.  Paddy basically got hurt and in the mean time Heenan came in and took that job and owned it. Paddy now is in a good situation with the bombers and everyone here is happy and proud of him. Wishing him every success in the world for a long and healthy career. I believe he is very good and was sorry to see him go.

  Just this year we lost Zack Evans to Ottawa via the draft. He is a free agent at years end and I'm sure I'm not the only one that was hoping he would return this winter to play for the Riders. He re-signed a bit ago and opted to stay in Ottawa. He likes it there and its a good situation for him. Again, no hard feelings here, Wishing him the best of luck. 

  Long storey short, Manitoba and Sask aren't that far apart, being in one or the other offers great opportunities for family and friends to stay close and still come watch games.  For a Manitoba kid that didn't get a chance to play for the bombers, would it not be at least reasonable to suggest being right next door in Sask would be the next best thing?  just my 2 cents, no hard feelings were intended.

 

From Labattes mouth himself, he didn't want to play centre but he never brought that up with the Bombers. He said this in an interview after he went to the RIders so that's as close to the source as you can get. If a guy isn't willing to talk to the Bombers about whether he wants to play a position or not it's clear that he had already moved on mentally. He was going to Saskatchewan the whole way and he was using the Bombers to get more money from the Riders simple as that. I don't begrudge him that, I just wish people would stop acting like the GM made a huge mistake, he was negotiating from a position he couldn't win. There's lots of things people could choose to get on the GM for but the ones they always fixate on don't hold a lot of weight. 

[KptKrunch]

I remember a bit about the Labatte thing. 17to85 has it right - the bombers wanted to move him center and Labatte had no interest in that. IIRC though the bombers were talking about it, not demanding it. I'm sure those convo's happen all the time with olineman. 

 

Ripper - I respect what you say but of course the parents will wear bomber jerseys when their son plays for them, all of them do. If Labatte went to B.C. they'd now be wearing Lions Jerseys too. Their loyalty is to their son, as it should be. 

 

Bottom line is Labatte was wanting to go home, and who can blame him? He became a FA even though he was offered a contract (a good one too IIRC) by Mack to stay here. Mack didn't play that game though. As much as despised Mack as a GM, I admired him for one thing - he never let a player hold him and the WBB hostage. Unlike Hockey, Basketball, or Baseball, football has a very dynamic roster. On any given game your star player can suffer a catastrophic injury and can be gone for good. The average life span (playing wise) of a football player is very low compared to those other sports. So when a star player starts that game (happens in the NFL too) its see ya later - have fun. You are replaceable (Quarterback being about the only position that's an exception) and non skill positions (O/D lineman) being the easiest ones to replace. 

[AtlanticRiderFan]

 

 

Not going to happen.

That's the kind of hard hitting analysis and insight we love to have.

It's true though.

 

 

Yup. Just because one team did something, doesn't mean another will. Heenan is one of our most important offensive linemen. We will resign him on the off season, no questions asked.

[Fred C Dobbs]

There were three reasons suggested why Labatte left the Bombers:

 

1) he didn't want to play center,

 

2) he wanted to join his girlfriend in Sask,

 

3) Sask offered him more money.

 

I think it was two years ago on a Bombers/Riders pre-game show that Bob Irving interviewed Labatte and asked him which of the above caused him to leave the Bombers. After going on a bit about how he really didn't want to play center, Labatte said "Basically, all of the above."

 

I've always thought that Mack was basically blameless about this but I'm beginning to have my doubts. For one thing, the idea to move Labatte to center was a major brain fart. From what I know of LaPolice, I can't see him considering such a move without consulting Labatte. Mack on the other hand ...

 

Also, there's this tidbit from LaPolice in his column from a couple of days ago:

 

When I was the head coach in Winnipeg, I struggled and always lost in arguments with the general manager's insistence to never sign players from other teams. He believed in signing rookies and rookies alone would be the way we would fix any roster issues and or injury problems. That is why we always had the youngest team in the CFL each year. Often times, he would say "why do we want a guy who was not good enough to play for them?" A couple of reasons: one, they understand the rules and systems of the CFL and two, they may be a better fit for our roster than the team that released him.

 

Some guys may be better than what we have on the roster, which is not what the GM wanted to hear but was sometimes true. What the general manager did not understand is that rookie receivers may be faster on the stopwatch when you are scouting them running down a line. A slower veteran will play faster most times in the game because he knows what to do and what he is doing so those guys can play faster than rookies and the QB's will trust the veterans because they are in the right spot at the right time. Many players are excelling in the league today with very average 40 times.

 

Another example during my time as head coach in Winnipeg involved signing a rookie International defensive lineman early in the 2012 season over several options that had CFL experience. This player not only had not played in the CFL, he never had played defensive lineman. He was a linebacker who we moved to defensive line. This player did not have a training camp to learn the fundamentals of the position of DL or to learn the rules of the CFL. He was thrown into a very difficult position to be successful, especially early on and also the position coach who had to try to groom a LB on how to play defensive line was also put in a position you normally don't do in professional football; that is teach a player a position he never has played before.

 

True to form, we had an injury at the defensive line and the player had to start the next week with only four days of practice. He struggled for two or three weeks with lining up offsides, having not had a lot of experience with the yard off the ball. He took three penalties in his first game just lining up offsides. The general manager was frustrated by the penalties and would try to say it was the coach's fault for not explaining that to him or my fault for not teaching him about it. We actually kept track of offsides daily and did extra work when we went offside in practice but these things will happen to young inexperienced players and the best way for them to learn is through game experiences alone. That is how the player will get better at the position, game reps alone.

 

http://www.tsn.ca/lapolice-how-experience-can-help-down-the-stretch-1.97077

 

I can't help but suspect that Mack just didn't value Labatte's experience enough.

[Tracker]

I am not a huge Lawless fan but tend to accept that he spoke the truth about Sleepy Joe letting LaBatte slip through his fingers out of apathy, laziness and incompetence. LaBatte has dropped a couple of hints that his departure from Winnipeg was not inevitable but the result of Mack not making much of an effort to re-sign him, and Mack's track record of valuing and assessing Canadian players seems to support Lawless's statements. Mack's only redeeming virtues were the recruiting of US players- he did bring in some good ones, but not remarkably better than say, Shivers. Moreover, Mack never resolved our weakness at quarterback- that was a spectacular failing of his.

[pigseye]

I loved that piece by Lapo, say what you will about them but if Lapo and Burke were running the team instead of Mack, we'd be miles ahead of where we are now and both would probably still be here.

[17to85]

There were three reasons suggested why Labatte left the Bombers:

 

1) he didn't want to play center,

 

2) he wanted to join his girlfriend in Sask,

 

3) Sask offered him more money.

 

I think it was two years ago on a Bombers/Riders pre-game show that Bob Irving interviewed Labatte and asked him which of the above caused him to leave the Bombers. After going on a bit about how he really didn't want to play center, Labatte said "Basically, all of the above."

 

I've always thought that Mack was basically blameless about this but I'm beginning to have my doubts. For one thing, the idea to move Labatte to center was a major brain fart. From what I know of LaPolice, I can't see him considering such a move without consulting Labatte. Mack on the other hand ...

But here's the thing, Labatte has admitted that he didn't even talk about his desire to not switch to centre with the Bombers. So the situation is one where the Bombers outline their plan for the player but the player doesn't tell them he doesn't like that. You think if he had said he wasn't keen on it that the Bombers wouldn't have changed their tune if it meant keeping him? That's where you realize that Labatte really wasn't all that interested in staying with the Bombers. He didn't put in effort with them to get things worked out with Winnipeg on his terms, he just used them to drive up what he could get from the Riders. 

[17to85]

I loved that piece by Lapo, say what you will about them but if Lapo and Burke were running the team instead of Mack, we'd be miles ahead of where we are now and both would probably still be here.

Yeah sorry but Lapo sunk himself with his passive playing not to lose, and there's a reason he's on TSN now not coaching in the CFL. Burke will never be a head coach in the CFL again because of how terrible he was at the job. 

[pigseye]

Bombers wouldn't pony up the $$$ to change his mind.

[pigseye]

 

I loved that piece by Lapo, say what you will about them but if Lapo and Burke were running the team instead of Mack, we'd be miles ahead of where we are now and both would probably still be here.

Yeah sorry but Lapo sunk himself with his passive playing not to lose, and there's a reason he's on TSN now not coaching in the CFL. Burke will never be a head coach in the CFL again because of how terrible he was at the job. 

 

 

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king, your highness.

[Goalie]

Bombers wouldn't pony up the $$$ to change his mind.

I don't know how true this is, i recall hearing the bombers offered him similar money to what sask offered him and even offered him up some cash to help him out with his racing stuff. 

 

But really, he's been gone a while now and not coming back, does it really matter why he left anymore? 

 

Sometimes 5000 or 10,000 bucks aint enough to convince a guy to stay when everything he wants is basically at home.

 

Maybe his girlfriend didn't want to move to Winnipeg, Maybe he wanted to be closer to his parents, maybe he wanted to raise his kid in sask, there are so many variables here to say it just came down to money, I don't think it came down to money at all.

 

I tend to agree with 17 when he talks about the idea that someone wanted him to move to center and labatte didn't even tell the team that he didn't want too, if he really wanted to be here, he would be here. The fact that he isn't here tells me he never really wanted to be here long term. 

 

Sometimes, just need to accept the fact that some  guys (mainly sask guys) want to play for SASk and it don't matter what you offer them, they grow up in sask, they bleed green, they want to play for the hometown only pro sports team in town. He probably could have made some money here but that money probably isn't enough.. I'll relate this to hockey, I'm born and raised in Winnipeg, big Jets fan, if i was playing in the NHL and i had the choice between playing in my home town or playing elsewhere, I'd definitely take the hometown discount to play for the team i wanted too play for my entire life. 

[Mr Dee]

OK, make that four people who believe that LaBatte would have signed here.

[pigseye]

It's always about the money.

[Goalie]

Pretty obvious that labatte was gone the second he could be. 

[Goalie]

It's always about the money.

No it really isn't. For some people maybe but... think about it. Playing in your home province for your home team, growing up a fan of that team, it's definitely not always about the money. There are so many cases where guys have taken the hometown discount that it's too long to list those names. It's not always about the money at all. 

 

THe perks alone that he gets for playing for the riders probably trump the extra 5000 or 10000 bucks he would have made here anyway. Maybe for you it's all about the money, but some guys, quite a few guys, there is no difference between 5000 and 10000 bucks. How much money would you have given him to stay here? It has to be significant and even then, i highly doubt he would have stayed, face it man, accept it, he was gone the second he could be. He wanted to go home, when someone wants to go home, money isn't the deciding factor at all, could he have got more for playing here? probably but the fact he went home tells you it doesn't matter how much money the bombers offered him, he was going home. 

[pigseye]

Things like home and family are always big considerations for a player but I don't believe that Sask natives are any different than any other place in Canada. I mean c'mon it's a **** hole compared to some places in Canada.