Realistic Changes for Next Year

[pigseye]

 

In watching O'Shea's presser today, I get the sense Etcheverry and Tracy won't be back next season, but Bellefeuille will be back.

 

Anything in particular he said or just a gut feeling?

 

 

Also who would be the leading candidates to replace them?

[holoman]

The team was doing just fine until the other teams figured out the schemes.....figured out the o line was terrible even with 3 imports.....figured out they could run against the mad genius' defence.........

When has Etcheverry's system been strong against the run?

If it took teams 7 weeks to figure that out, it says more about them

[17to85]

 

Like I said, you need some perspective. The team isn't a little bit better than last year, it's a LOT better than last year, but last year was so bad there was a long way to go and expecting a huge turn around in one season was pie in the sky wishful thinking. It takes time to go from historically bad to good, but you seem to think they should have done it in one offseason? Seriously? They've made a lot of progress this year, if they make a similar amount of progress next year then aren't they close to being the team you want them to be? There was never an instant fix for this team, things were so bad it was going to be a slow process, why start bitching when the process isn't faster than can be reasonably expected? Oh I know! It's because you're head is so far up your ass all you see is ****. 

 

 

You're doing it again.  Making up things that i neither said nor implied then arguing your side of your made up story.  No one, including me, expected the team to become good in one season.  Far from it. We didn't make enough of the right changes in the off season IMHO and we haven't made enough changes during the season.  I didn't expect an instant fix and I'm not bitching that it isn't faster than can be reasonably expected.  None of those things have anything to do with how much or how little better we are than last year anyway.  If you haul your head outta your hiney you might be able to follow along.

 

My perspective is... We're still not good enough.  We're in a downward death spiral.  That's not the right direction.  We're doing nothing about it this year.  We're hoping to get better in the off season from the draft, free agency, and scouting new players.... Just like every other team in the CFL.

 

No you're basically disregarding the progress the team has made and insisting that wins and losses are the only thing that really matters. What I said is exactly what you are saying. You need to expand your focus and look at the big picture. 

[TBURGESS]

 

 

Like I said, you need some perspective. The team isn't a little bit better than last year, it's a LOT better than last year, but last year was so bad there was a long way to go and expecting a huge turn around in one season was pie in the sky wishful thinking. It takes time to go from historically bad to good, but you seem to think they should have done it in one offseason? Seriously? They've made a lot of progress this year, if they make a similar amount of progress next year then aren't they close to being the team you want them to be? There was never an instant fix for this team, things were so bad it was going to be a slow process, why start bitching when the process isn't faster than can be reasonably expected? Oh I know! It's because you're head is so far up your ass all you see is ****. 

 

 

You're doing it again.  Making up things that i neither said nor implied then arguing your side of your made up story.  No one, including me, expected the team to become good in one season.  Far from it. We didn't make enough of the right changes in the off season IMHO and we haven't made enough changes during the season.  I didn't expect an instant fix and I'm not bitching that it isn't faster than can be reasonably expected.  None of those things have anything to do with how much or how little better we are than last year anyway.  If you haul your head outta your hiney you might be able to follow along.

 

My perspective is... We're still not good enough.  We're in a downward death spiral.  That's not the right direction.  We're doing nothing about it this year.  We're hoping to get better in the off season from the draft, free agency, and scouting new players.... Just like every other team in the CFL.

 

No you're basically disregarding the progress the team has made and insisting that wins and losses are the only thing that really matters. What I said is exactly what you are saying. You need to expand your focus and look at the big picture. 

 

I'm not disregarding the progress.  I'm just not overstating it like you are.  

 

The big picture is we still aren't good enough and that we still have a long ways to go.

 

W's are the only thing that matters. 

[TrueBlue]

I'm not a big fan of Bellfool, but for everyone suggesting we fire him, who do we replace him with? And do we really want Drew Willy in a new system in year two?

 

I wouldn't be all that concerned with Willy not being able to get the handle on a new system.  We're not talking about going from biology to physics.  

 

Maybe a long shot, but I still like Lapo and think he is better suited as an active OC.  He is one person off the top of my head, of whom being out of coaching for a couple years has probably helped him gain a new perspective on the game and that's intriguing to me. 

[Logan007]

In watching O'Shea's presser today, I get the sense Etcheverry and Tracy won't be back next season, but Bellefeuille will be back.

You mean the presser posted on the Bomber site or was there a different one?  Because I didn't get any impressions of him hinting any of that.  Maybe Tracy, but not Etch or MB.

[Logan007]

 

I'm not a big fan of Bellfool, but for everyone suggesting we fire him, who do we replace him with? And do we really want Drew Willy in a new system in year two?

 

I wouldn't be all that concerned with Willy not being able to get the handle on a new system.  We're not talking about going from biology to physics.  

 

Maybe a long shot, but I still like Lapo and think he is better suited as an active OC.  He is one person off the top of my head, of whom being out of coaching for a couple years has probably helped him gain a new perspective on the game and that's intriguing to me. 

 

I agree.  I think it's hilarious when people say that.  A good OC will figure out plays around what type of QB he has to work with.  It's not like the OC is some guy that's gonna be like "oh sorry, I can't work with so and so unless he's a pocket passer.  I can only create offensive schemes around pocket passers".

 

I also have stated I'd rather see Lapo back here as OC rather then MB.  He's not Cortez, but he's better then MB.

[Tracker]

No chance LaPolice would want to come back to the team that fired him after expecting him to work miracles with a very poor roster.

[17to85]

 

 

 

Like I said, you need some perspective. The team isn't a little bit better than last year, it's a LOT better than last year, but last year was so bad there was a long way to go and expecting a huge turn around in one season was pie in the sky wishful thinking. It takes time to go from historically bad to good, but you seem to think they should have done it in one offseason? Seriously? They've made a lot of progress this year, if they make a similar amount of progress next year then aren't they close to being the team you want them to be? There was never an instant fix for this team, things were so bad it was going to be a slow process, why start bitching when the process isn't faster than can be reasonably expected? Oh I know! It's because you're head is so far up your ass all you see is ****. 

 

 

You're doing it again.  Making up things that i neither said nor implied then arguing your side of your made up story.  No one, including me, expected the team to become good in one season.  Far from it. We didn't make enough of the right changes in the off season IMHO and we haven't made enough changes during the season.  I didn't expect an instant fix and I'm not bitching that it isn't faster than can be reasonably expected.  None of those things have anything to do with how much or how little better we are than last year anyway.  If you haul your head outta your hiney you might be able to follow along.

 

My perspective is... We're still not good enough.  We're in a downward death spiral.  That's not the right direction.  We're doing nothing about it this year.  We're hoping to get better in the off season from the draft, free agency, and scouting new players.... Just like every other team in the CFL.

 

No you're basically disregarding the progress the team has made and insisting that wins and losses are the only thing that really matters. What I said is exactly what you are saying. You need to expand your focus and look at the big picture. 

 

I'm not disregarding the progress.  I'm just not overstating it like you are.  

 

The big picture is we still aren't good enough and that we still have a long ways to go.

 

W's are the only thing that matters. 

 

and it's that stupid notion that is the reason you don't see the progress. I'm not over stating anything,you are simply choosing to believe that wins are the only thing that demonstrates progress and that is a ******* stupid mentality. 

[TBURGESS]

 

 

 

and it's that stupid notion that is the reason you don't see the progress. I'm not over stating anything,you are simply choosing to believe that wins are the only thing that demonstrates progress and that is a ******* stupid mentality. 

 

It's not a stupid notion.  W's are how teams are judged, unless there aren't enough W's for a positive spin, then folks like you are forced to look for something else point towards progress.  It's not black and white either.  I see some progress, just not enough to say we're moving in the right direction or that we're that much better than last year.  

[Noeller]

It's just such small-minded, short-sighted thinking. In the big-picture, we have made a TON of progress from last year, and anyone who doesn't see that is either an idiot, or being deliberately obtuse.

[Mr Dee]

You're not looking for progress, you're stuck on pwogress.

No wonder you're off track.

[17to85]

 

 

 

 

and it's that stupid notion that is the reason you don't see the progress. I'm not over stating anything,you are simply choosing to believe that wins are the only thing that demonstrates progress and that is a ******* stupid mentality. 

 

It's not a stupid notion.  W's are how teams are judged, unless there aren't enough W's for a positive spin, then folks like you are forced to look for something else point towards progress.  It's not black and white either.  I see some progress, just not enough to say we're moving in the right direction or that we're that much better than last year.  

 

it is a stupid notion. It completely disregards how bad the team was last year. They are absolutely moving in the right direction and we are THAT much better than last year. Give up the idea that wins and losses are the only way to judge progress and you'll see it. We have a qb we know we can win with, we have what appears to be a good head coach who has the team believing in him. When healthy this team was winning a lot of close games, when injuries started piling up they're losing mostly close games. That tells me this team came a long way from being blown out before half time and that with some improved depth and the upgrades that come as a result of that this team is not far off winning more often. It's a process and steps forward are steps forward even if they haven't translated into a 12 win season. 

[Rich]

 

 

 

Like I said, you need some perspective. The team isn't a little bit better than last year, it's a LOT better than last year, but last year was so bad there was a long way to go and expecting a huge turn around in one season was pie in the sky wishful thinking. It takes time to go from historically bad to good, but you seem to think they should have done it in one offseason? Seriously? They've made a lot of progress this year, if they make a similar amount of progress next year then aren't they close to being the team you want them to be? There was never an instant fix for this team, things were so bad it was going to be a slow process, why start bitching when the process isn't faster than can be reasonably expected? Oh I know! It's because you're head is so far up your ass all you see is ****. 

 

 

You're doing it again.  Making up things that i neither said nor implied then arguing your side of your made up story.  No one, including me, expected the team to become good in one season.  Far from it. We didn't make enough of the right changes in the off season IMHO and we haven't made enough changes during the season.  I didn't expect an instant fix and I'm not bitching that it isn't faster than can be reasonably expected.  None of those things have anything to do with how much or how little better we are than last year anyway.  If you haul your head outta your hiney you might be able to follow along.

 

My perspective is... We're still not good enough.  We're in a downward death spiral.  That's not the right direction.  We're doing nothing about it this year.  We're hoping to get better in the off season from the draft, free agency, and scouting new players.... Just like every other team in the CFL.

 

No you're basically disregarding the progress the team has made and insisting that wins and losses are the only thing that really matters. What I said is exactly what you are saying. You need to expand your focus and look at the big picture. 

 

I'm not disregarding the progress.  I'm just not overstating it like you are.  

 

The big picture is we still aren't good enough and that we still have a long ways to go.

 

W's are the only thing that matters. 

 

 

If we aren't making progress, are you ready to fire Walters and O'Shea, blow the whole thing up and start over again?

 

And if not, why not if we aren't making progress?

[SPuDS]

Any step in the right direction ia progress, regardless of how many stumbles take place..

to suggest no progress has been made and maintained is simply sheer folly and being difficult for the sake of difficult..

[Dascow]

I don't think anyone is saying that NO progress has been made.  Unless I am missing something.

 

The question here is; To what degree has progress been made?

 

Is the team a little bit better, or a lot better than last year?  It's a good question.

 

How do you measure progress?  By wins?  By the fact that at least they are in every game to the end? (Excluding the debacle in Ottawa.) Or do you measure it by looking at player stats from this year to last?

 

Last year was such a gong show of a season that it makes this season feel that much better.  It does seem like the players this year are not giving up so quickly.  They seem to fight until the end every game.  Sadly, for the Bombers, that's progress...

 

At this point I personally don't know if the team is a little better or a lot better than last year.  It's really hard for me to tell right now.  I think that after the season it will be easier to digest everything and make a conclusion. 2 things that make me hopeful is that I believe we now have a QB for the future and a kicker for the future.  Those are the 2 most difficult things to find it seems.

 

I will say that despite the progress that has been made this year, I think there is still a long way to go. 

 

[HardCoreBlue]

 

 

 

 

and it's that stupid notion that is the reason you don't see the progress. I'm not over stating anything,you are simply choosing to believe that wins are the only thing that demonstrates progress and that is a ******* stupid mentality. 

 

It's not a stupid notion.  W's are how teams are judged, unless there aren't enough W's for a positive spin, then folks like you are forced to look for something else point towards progress.  It's not black and white either.  I see some progress, just not enough to say we're moving in the right direction or that we're that much better than last year.  

 

I understand what you're trying to say but like you, I don't believe it's that black and white in terms of how teams are judged, i.e., wins and losses.

For example, take the RedBlacks, Bombers and Stampeders in where they're at now. My weight on judging them by their record is different. RedBlacks low, Bombers mid, Stampeders high in terms of this years expectations. So yes wins and losses are all that matter, but expectations of a season can temper that notion.  

[tacklewasher]

I guess I'm more disapointed in the progress not being made from the beginning of the season, vs. compared to last year. I know we've had a lot of injuries, but we don't seem to be moving forward THIS SEASON. Yes we are better than last year, but are we better than 8 weeks ago? I don't see much evidence that we are and that has me concerned.

[Rich]

If we continue to look the same when we get some of our key players back from injury, then I will be concerned.

 

If we look better this week with some of our key players back, then what it tells me is we just don't yet have the depth that we need.   Which, considering where we were last year, isn't surprising.   Takes time to build up the quality of your starters, and until you have that it is hard to up the quality of your backups because the new players you bring in jump right into starting spots.

 

The concerning part is most of our upgrades were made through free agency and not through "new / rookie" players that were brought in.  However saying that, I will give them a pass this year because last off season was essentially spent setting up their scouting network and system.   If we see much the same next year in the new batch of imports that are brought in, that will give me concern because they should now be rolling on all cylinders.

[17to85]

If we continue to look the same when we get some of our key players back from injury, then I will be concerned.

 

If we look better this week with some of our key players back, then what it tells me is we just don't yet have the depth that we need.   Which, considering where we were last year, isn't surprising.   Takes time to build up the quality of your starters, and until you have that it is hard to up the quality of your backups because the new players you bring in jump right into starting spots.

 

The concerning part is most of our upgrades were made through free agency and not through "new / rookie" players that were brought in.  However saying that, I will give them a pass this year because last off season was essentially spent setting up their scouting network and system.   If we see much the same next year in the new batch of imports that are brought in, that will give me concern because they should now be rolling on all cylinders.

Throw in a few obligatory curse words and this is basically a post I would make. 

[TBURGESS]

 

 

If we aren't making progress, are you ready to fire Walters and O'Shea, blow the whole thing up and start over again?

 

And if not, why not if we aren't making progress?

 

Nope, I'm not suggesting blowing the whole thing up and starting over and for the umptenth time, I'm not saying we haven't made ANY progress.  I'm saying we haven't made ENOUGH progress to say we're obviously heading in the right direction.  Any half competent staff would make some progress when your comparison is one of the worst teams in Bomber history.  

 

I think Miller and Walters have done pretty good jobs.  I like the idea of a larger scouting staff, but it hasn't provided many upgrades.  Our best new players came from other scouting staffs.  Maybe it will this offseason.  I like the idea of additional coaches.

 

O'Shea has the built in excuse of being a rookie HC who has to learn.  I'm expecting him to get better next year as he will be higher on the learning curve.  I don't see him as the next Buono or Huffer like a lot of folks do, but I'm more than willing to give him a 2nd year. 

 

Our OC and DC have lots of experience and they both are who we thought they were.  Neither are guys I'd trust this this rebuild on.  I'm not sold on our special teams coach either.  They may have been the best we could attract last year, but doesn't make them good enough or the best coaches we can attract going forward.  

[TBURGESS]

 

 

I'm not disregarding how bad we were.  You're disregarding that any new group was likely to produce better results at least in the short term, because the comparison is one of the worst teams in Bomber history.  Fill the staff with college coaches and we'd probably be better this year.  That doesn't equal being on the right track.  If you give up the stupid idea that comparing this years team to one of the worst teams we've ever had and start comparing this team to the other teams in the league, or even our average teams, you'd see where we actually stand.

 

I've been hearing about this process that will turn us into a good team a couple or a few years down the line for over 20 years.  Most of time it's just wishful thinking, but that doesn't stop fans form angrily arguing that it's obviously going to get better and we just have to believe in the current group is going to be way better than the last group.

[pigseye]

No chance LaPolice would want to come back to the team that fired him after expecting him to work miracles with a very poor roster.

 

Lapo's offence was the same sort of meat grinder on qb's that MB is running, both work better with a qb who is actually a threat to run.

[Tracker]

 

No chance LaPolice would want to come back to the team that fired him after expecting him to work miracles with a very poor roster.

 

Lapo's offence was the same sort of meat grinder on qb's that MB is running, both work better with a qb who is actually a threat to run.

 

In the CFL any quarterback who has the ability to take off or scramble when the moment is right instantly makes his team much better. There are not that many Kent Austins who can make it as a pure pocket passer.

[Mark H.]

The team was doing just fine until the other teams figured out the schemes.....figured out the o line was terrible even with 3 imports.....figured out they could run against the mad genius' defence.........

 

There were games they could easily have lost early in the season...there have also been games they could've won in the last few weeks.