New coordinators for 2015?

[rebusrankin]

I'm in the I'd rather see both gone camp. Marcel's offenses are average at best. I'd say the extra 9 yards per game and 2 pts per game can be credited to having an actual QB. Etch's system does not work.

[B-F-F-C]

Just some food for thought.  What about Gene Dalquist the current QB coach as a possible OC candidate?    His seems to have had some good success as a OC in the NCAA.  

[17to85]

 

 

 

 

How can you blame the GM and scouting staff when they have to find the type of player the coaching staff wants? I find it hard to believe that there aren't any DT's wondering around out there somewhere but we haven't brought a single one in from day 1 because they want tweener's instead. Every short yardage play from Edmonton ended up in 3+ yard gains, there was zero push from the dline. It's a catch 22 situation.

 

The second half of the season is always the true measure of a team, just too small on the defensive front 7 and not enough talent on the offense, both need big changes.

It's not size, it's talent. Wild is not your prototypical MLB but he is playing damned well despite it. Turner isn't a behemoth at DL and he's fine. The guys we are using just aren't good enough. Anderson was playing well at DT but they lost him to injury and the replacements haven't been up to par. 

 

 

It's size and strength, they got rag dolled by bigger, stronger men. Line play always comes down to beating the guy across the line from you.

 

then how come the OL was so poor when all Joe Mack did was draft or recruit the biggest strongest most athletic OL out there? There is much more to it than simply size and strength. If you suck you suck no matter how big and strong you are. Need talented people who can do what is asked of them it doesn't really matter if they're big or not. Blaming the size is what people do when they don't want to put any thought into their game analysis. The issues with what Etchevary does don't start with the preference to have smaller faster players. The things he does with his players is the issues that needs to be talked about first and foremost. 

 

 

You are as delusional as Etch if you think you can win with the right players in his defence. Every defence in the league and all the best ones are 43's built the traditional way for a reason. This has nothing to do with issues, it's common sense.

 

what I am saying is that Etchevary has flaws in his defense that even bigger players won't fix. He intentionally leaves huge spaces uncovered. The guy should be replaced for that reason rather than his preference for smaller players, but no matter what you call you need talented people who can execute and right now we don't have people who can execute in several positions either. 

[Goalie]

I think i'm in the fire MB camp more than the Fire ETCH camp, the offense has been absolutely terrible the last several weeks, Willy or whichever QB is in there is being sacked left right and center, being pressured on every play, the damn offense had like 1 yard yesterday to Edmontons 181 yards at one point in that game. I can't blame the D when the offense keeps going 2 and out over and over and over and over. These last 2 games though, it does seem like the D has been exposed a wee bit but i think the main reason for that is because the Offense can't move the ball, MB's play calling has become predictable, we see it every game, Yesterday again, cotton with a nice 5 6 yard run on first, 2nd down we throw it 25 yards... we keep doing that over and over and over and it doesn't work. I think the D has obviously gotten a bit exhausted really the last couple games, I will say this though, i honestly expected Edmonton to hit 50 yesterday easily, 37-0 at half and not all those points on the D but.. honestly said its gonna be 50-0 cuz our offense can't do a damn thing.

 

When the D is on the field for the majority of the first half, yeah points are  going to be scored. Part of the issue yesterday was our Offense kept going 2 and out and we were in poor field position due to some good kicks by edmonton and also due to some poor plays by woods to actually field some of those kicks, i can see why he was benched actually. 

 

You can't keep blowing things up every year and expecting different results, isn't that the definition of insanity? doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? how many times are we going to have to fire coordinators or coaches or gm's or bring in new players, keep doing it and if they struggle the first year eventhough the only 2 games they really have struggled big time is the last 2 games, keep firing guys? expecting different results? 

 

Honestly,I'm surprised at some of these comments, you'd think most of the folks on here would understand that it would take more than 1 even 2 seasons to actually be where we need to be, we have been competitive in every game this year outside of 2  really, 3 if you want to include BC but we were in that game up until the 4th, the offense couldn't move the ball again.

 

Can't keep firing guys and bringing other guys in, when does that cycle stop? isn't it the same one we have been on the last 10 years or so? hire a guy, fire him, new guy struggles, fire him, and people wonder why we have a hard time attracting people to come play here?

 

With that being said tho, I'd fire MB because there are a few guys out there who probably would bring a different look, Dyce is one of the guys i'd go after, Jackson is probably another, Millonovich is definitely another if he doesn't want to deal with Toronto again, he's actually #1 on the list but i think its unlikely he would take an OC role when he could probably get a head coaches job. 

 

DC? who is out there? not much really, not many at least that i can think of, maybe if benevides is fired in BC, he'd be a guy i'd look at to replace ETCH, that BC d has been good for a long time, Campbell or Nelson in Ottawa too, Campbell has been a pretty good DC in the league, was with calgary and ottawa has a pretty good group too, Is that Nelson or is it Campbell? Gut tells me it's campbell due to the past success he's had with Calgarys D. 

[17to85]

Buddy that was at the game with us pointed out quite correctly that if the offense had taken 2 knees and kicked the ball every time they got it the score would have been better than it was at half time. They'd have kicked a field goal and not given up one of the touchdowns. That says a lot doesn't it? 

[iso_55]

 

Yup, watching the overload formations on D....which open up  tons of room for the slants, hooks and drags.....drove me crazy.   Worse....we totally sell out on certain areas of the field and leave some DB's in a ton of ISO.....with the idea of getting to the QB, as the tradeoff.  

 

Except we don't get to the QB, in time, anymore......

 

Need a change here, for next year.....

 

Etch has probably blown his last golden opportunity in the CFL.  It makes you wonder why some people have no instinct for survival.  O'Shea can no longer honestly defend those defencive schemes.

 

MOS will defend Etch. You watch, the guy won't be going anywhere. 

[gbill2004]

I just asked O'Shea on the CJOB Coach's show whether he'd commit to bringing back all 3 coordinators next season.  He would not commit to this.  Instead he said that the player roster and coaching staff will all be under review this offseason. 

[James]

I know it won't be a popular opinion, but I'd keep Etch around provided we can improve the offensive line and the offensive playcalling.

 

Etcheverry's defense may not be popular around here (and I understand why) but he'd see a lot more success if we weren't on the field so much lately. That being said, a lot of people (myself included) would be jaded by the lack of interest in stopping the run. If he could just adjust that, everything else he does has had some impressive results.

 

If he does go, I would be curious to see Barron Miles here. I'd be curious to know who has the most involvement in Edmonton's D outside of Chris Jones too.

 

For OC, I'd definitely want a new face and first on my list would have to be Jarious Jackson at this point.

booo to this post

[Mike]

I just asked O'Shea on the CJOB Coach's show whether he'd commit to bringing back all 3 coordinators next season. He would not commit to this. Instead he said that the player roster and coaching staff will all be under review this offseason.

Good question, but I wouldn't expect him to give any other kind of answer at this point. He can't afford to pigeon hole himself.

[James]

 

 

 

 

 

How can you blame the GM and scouting staff when they have to find the type of player the coaching staff wants? I find it hard to believe that there aren't any DT's wondering around out there somewhere but we haven't brought a single one in from day 1 because they want tweener's instead. Every short yardage play from Edmonton ended up in 3+ yard gains, there was zero push from the dline. It's a catch 22 situation.

 

The second half of the season is always the true measure of a team, just too small on the defensive front 7 and not enough talent on the offense, both need big changes.

It's not size, it's talent. Wild is not your prototypical MLB but he is playing damned well despite it. Turner isn't a behemoth at DL and he's fine. The guys we are using just aren't good enough. Anderson was playing well at DT but they lost him to injury and the replacements haven't been up to par. 

 

 

It's size and strength, they got rag dolled by bigger, stronger men. Line play always comes down to beating the guy across the line from you.

 

then how come the OL was so poor when all Joe Mack did was draft or recruit the biggest strongest most athletic OL out there? There is much more to it than simply size and strength. If you suck you suck no matter how big and strong you are. Need talented people who can do what is asked of them it doesn't really matter if they're big or not. Blaming the size is what people do when they don't want to put any thought into their game analysis. The issues with what Etchevary does don't start with the preference to have smaller faster players. The things he does with his players is the issues that needs to be talked about first and foremost. 

 

 

You are as delusional as Etch if you think you can win with the right players in his defence. Every defence in the league and all the best ones are 43's built the traditional way for a reason. This has nothing to do with issues, it's common sense.

 

what I am saying is that Etchevary has flaws in his defense that even bigger players won't fix. He intentionally leaves huge spaces uncovered. The guy should be replaced for that reason rather than his preference for smaller players, but no matter what you call you need talented people who can execute and right now we don't have people who can execute in several positions either. 

 

Yes you are right, the defensive scheme he runs is terrible, and talent can make up for size to an extent... but you are severely undervaluing big and strong players as well as being talented.

 

Wild has played fairly well despite his size yes... but he's certainly not been an Henoc Muamba in the middle... Your kidding yourself if you think he's just as good as Henoc at stopping the run, or a guy like Joe Lobendahn in his prime.

 

Wild is a fantastic undersized WLB. Theres no way he should be in the middle full time. As well, as much as I wanted to see Anderson and Turner together at DT, we should only have one of them in at a time with bigger traditional NT type beside the other... I wouldn't mind seeing one of them slimming down and playing End next season.

[Tracker]

As disgusted as I have been this season, I cannot hang it all on Bellefeuille's coaching. He's had crap for an O-line this year, very questionable running backs, a mediocre receiving corps, and a talented but inexperienced quarterback who has been beaten down into the ground. I think he deserves a chance to work with a decent group, and that is out of his hands. Wylie deserves some hard questions about his commitment to the team.

[Mike]

Who says Zach Anderson is an undersized DT? Dude is a powerlifter and is easily pushing 300 pounds. He just also happens to be fast as well.

[USABomberfan]

I agree with USA BF... it seems that they've got to the 'super slow developing' screen pass half way across the field... by the time the ball gets there the opposing D is all over us.  If we're going to get blitzed the way we have been, you need a couple options to dump it off quick.  

 

Amazing how we were complaining about the check down passes LaPo was famous for implementing 3 years ago, and now it's one of the only things that might work for us!

 

I have thought of that, but here's a few differences I would say.  Lapo didn't seem to run a whole lot of RB checkdown screens, he seemed to run a lot of short flat passes to WRs where they were sitting ducks to be tackled in the open field.  The big difference between those two plays is linemen can get downfield and block linebackers on RB screens, they can't do that on WR checkdown plays.

 

Another difference is Lapo seemed to get some kind of bad negative play on 1st down frequently, some of which was O-line penalties that weren't his fault, but others were bad negative run plays that would get us in the 2nd and long, and instead of trying medium range to long pass plays for a conversion, he would just checkdown the ball for a short range and end up short of the marker every time.  He also refused to go for it on 3rd and 1 or less many times and that certainly gives fans a reason to be irate.

 

To be fair, I don't mind that Bellefeuille has incorporated long passes in his offense, you gotta have both short and long passes, everyone does and there should be a variety.  But in our case, when your QB is getting hammered, you absolutely gotta try something to slow down a rush, and screen passes if they are run properly can do that.  I like Bellefeuille, but I really felt he blew it in this last game.

[TBieber]

Current CFL guys I would consider. Keyword consider. Also does not include those currently working as Coordinators.

 

Jarious Jackson - Esks QB

Pete Costanza - Stamps WR

Marcus Crandell - Redblacks QB

 

Tony Missick - Stamps DB

Barron Miles - Riders DB

[iso_55]

Jackson? Wow. Why? Think Jason Maas is ready for the jump to OC?

[Floyd]

Just can't get over the JJ fanclub...  WAY too soon to move that guy to OC

 

I like Jason Shivers too but same thing, he needs a couple years to develop

 

Hadn't thought of Costanza, he would be good

 

Still think McMann has the most potential

[Mike]

Just can't get over the JJ fanclub...  WAY too soon to move that guy to OC

 

I like Jason Shivers too but same thing, he needs a couple years to develop

 

Hadn't thought of Costanza, he would be good

 

Still think McMann has the most potential

 

I think most people (myself included) just base their preferences on who seems to be on a successful staff, have a good mentor in front of them, etc.

 

I'm curious - what do you know that makes you say Jackson is too early into his career? Or that Shivers is the same?

[Floyd]

 

Just can't get over the JJ fanclub...  WAY too soon to move that guy to OC

 

I like Jason Shivers too but same thing, he needs a couple years to develop

 

Hadn't thought of Costanza, he would be good

 

Still think McMann has the most potential

 

I think most people (myself included) just base their preferences on who seems to be on a successful staff, have a good mentor in front of them, etc.

 

I'm curious - what do you know that makes you say Jackson is too early into his career? Or that Shivers is the same?

 

 

Nothing really deep... just that they both only have a couple years experience - I haven't seen that translate to instant success very often

 

I think Maas is closer only because he has acted like a coach for much of his backup career.  As a player, Jarious' tendency to 'when in doubt throw bombs' scares me as a coach.  I actually don't think Khari Jones is quite ready either... 

 

Have a good feeling about McMann - admittedly BC does have strong presonnel but he gets results and has a ton of experience, think he's ready for the next step

[bearpants]

Current CFL guys I would consider. Keyword consider. Also does not include those currently working as Coordinators.

 

Jarious Jackson - Esks QB

Pete Costanza - Stamps WR

Marcus Crandell - Redblacks QB

 

Tony Missick - Stamps DB

Barron Miles - Riders DB

 

Costanza would be nice just so we can start calling him "Can't-stand-ya" if he doesn't work out...

 

Barron MIles seems to be an up-and-comer many people are talking about... wasn't he even in the conversation before this season? I'd be interested in seeing what he can do...

[mbrg]

Barron MIles seems to be an up-and-comer many people are talking about... wasn't he even in the conversation before this season? I'd be interested in seeing what he can do...

 

 

His name came up here a few times.

 

But so has Tim Tebow's...

[Mr Dee]

I understand there may be an opening for a co-ordinator who is out of this world…..…where do I apply?

[Doublezero]

 

Example, yesterday over at Riderfans, the whole Rider nation wants to crucify George Cortez for everything that goes wrong with that offense.  To us, the answer is simple, it's that Sunseri has no arm and cannot get the ball downfield, and his decision making is uncrisp, and that's why Cortez is limited in what he can call for that O.  But the Rider nation who look at other elements of things in Tino's game or in other ways they believe the team could move the ball, believe in that, hence why they blame their OC when he doesn't do those things.  I'd say the same thing goes for here with Bellefeuille.  What does concern me with Bellefeuille is that he's seemed to have gotten away from RB screen passes completely, and when your offense needs something to not only try to move the ball but also try and slow down a rush, those plays can be that thing.  Now it may not work and when execution isn't happening period, it's likely because your team is just not talented enough to do it, but I do think he should've at least tried to run that play.  But there are so many other factors that go into that execution besides just play calling or selection that you gotta remember before you start blaming the OC.

Here is the difference between Bomber fans blaming MB and rider fans blaming Cortez... Cortez has been one of the best OCs in the CFL for years and years and years while MB has peaked at average and shown for years that the best he can do is average. He has had bland and dull offenses every where he's gone and they've done just enough to not be a total embarassment at best. Cortez on the other hand has had CFL leading offenses many times on many different teams. One guy has a stellar resume and the other is the guy you hire when you have no other choices. 

 

Yes, it seems MB mediocre as our OC and should be replaced. Bombers inability to produce on Offence is their biggest problem. Defensively we are not great -  but not as bad as everyone is making out. If you look at points surrendered you see that this year our defence actually didn't cost us too many games. D contributed points with turnovers and held opposing teams to low points against. My concern is actually with MOS in relation to the O. He admits he knows nothing about the offensive phase of the game and therefore delegates to his OC. This was fully revealed couple weeks back on the Coaches Show when a caller asked why Bombers don't run more outside runs and power sweeps. MOS said those plays don't work in the CFL because opposing Ds have their fastest players between the hashmarks and sidelines. The field is 65 yards wide. These plays do work. Also, MOS said you can't have extra blockers and delayed release plays but of course this is rubbish also.

[blitzmore]

 

 

Example, yesterday over at Riderfans, the whole Rider nation wants to crucify George Cortez for everything that goes wrong with that offense.  To us, the answer is simple, it's that Sunseri has no arm and cannot get the ball downfield, and his decision making is uncrisp, and that's why Cortez is limited in what he can call for that O.  But the Rider nation who look at other elements of things in Tino's game or in other ways they believe the team could move the ball, believe in that, hence why they blame their OC when he doesn't do those things.  I'd say the same thing goes for here with Bellefeuille.  What does concern me with Bellefeuille is that he's seemed to have gotten away from RB screen passes completely, and when your offense needs something to not only try to move the ball but also try and slow down a rush, those plays can be that thing.  Now it may not work and when execution isn't happening period, it's likely because your team is just not talented enough to do it, but I do think he should've at least tried to run that play.  But there are so many other factors that go into that execution besides just play calling or selection that you gotta remember before you start blaming the OC.

Here is the difference between Bomber fans blaming MB and rider fans blaming Cortez... Cortez has been one of the best OCs in the CFL for years and years and years while MB has peaked at average and shown for years that the best he can do is average. He has had bland and dull offenses every where he's gone and they've done just enough to not be a total embarassment at best. Cortez on the other hand has had CFL leading offenses many times on many different teams. One guy has a stellar resume and the other is the guy you hire when you have no other choices. 

 

Yes, it seems MB mediocre as our OC and should be replaced. Bombers inability to produce on Offence is their biggest problem. Defensively we are not great -  but not as bad as everyone is making out. If you look at points surrendered you see that this year our defence actually didn't cost us too many games. D contributed points with turnovers and held opposing teams to low points against. My concern is actually with MOS in relation to the O. He admits he knows nothing about the offensive phase of the game and therefore delegates to his OC. This was fully revealed couple weeks back on the Coaches Show when a caller asked why Bombers don't run more outside runs and power sweeps. MOS said those plays don't work in the CFL because opposing Ds have their fastest players between the hashmarks and sidelines. The field is 65 yards wide. These plays do work. Also, MOS said you can't have extra blockers and delayed release plays but of course this is rubbish also.

 

Never did MOS say that he knows nothing about the offensive phase of the fame! You obviously have a selective memory...that was Burke last year who said he knows nothing about offence.

[Goalie]

 

 

 

Example, yesterday over at Riderfans, the whole Rider nation wants to crucify George Cortez for everything that goes wrong with that offense.  To us, the answer is simple, it's that Sunseri has no arm and cannot get the ball downfield, and his decision making is uncrisp, and that's why Cortez is limited in what he can call for that O.  But the Rider nation who look at other elements of things in Tino's game or in other ways they believe the team could move the ball, believe in that, hence why they blame their OC when he doesn't do those things.  I'd say the same thing goes for here with Bellefeuille.  What does concern me with Bellefeuille is that he's seemed to have gotten away from RB screen passes completely, and when your offense needs something to not only try to move the ball but also try and slow down a rush, those plays can be that thing.  Now it may not work and when execution isn't happening period, it's likely because your team is just not talented enough to do it, but I do think he should've at least tried to run that play.  But there are so many other factors that go into that execution besides just play calling or selection that you gotta remember before you start blaming the OC.

Here is the difference between Bomber fans blaming MB and rider fans blaming Cortez... Cortez has been one of the best OCs in the CFL for years and years and years while MB has peaked at average and shown for years that the best he can do is average. He has had bland and dull offenses every where he's gone and they've done just enough to not be a total embarassment at best. Cortez on the other hand has had CFL leading offenses many times on many different teams. One guy has a stellar resume and the other is the guy you hire when you have no other choices. 

 

Yes, it seems MB mediocre as our OC and should be replaced. Bombers inability to produce on Offence is their biggest problem. Defensively we are not great -  but not as bad as everyone is making out. If you look at points surrendered you see that this year our defence actually didn't cost us too many games. D contributed points with turnovers and held opposing teams to low points against. My concern is actually with MOS in relation to the O. He admits he knows nothing about the offensive phase of the game and therefore delegates to his OC. This was fully revealed couple weeks back on the Coaches Show when a caller asked why Bombers don't run more outside runs and power sweeps. MOS said those plays don't work in the CFL because opposing Ds have their fastest players between the hashmarks and sidelines. The field is 65 yards wide. These plays do work. Also, MOS said you can't have extra blockers and delayed release plays but of course this is rubbish also.

 

Never did MOS say that he knows nothing about the offensive phase of the fame! You obviously have a selective memory...that was Burke last year who said he knows nothing about offence.

 

Yeah i have to admit, i tend to listen to the coaches show every week and don't ever recall MOS saying anything remotely close to that. 

[M.O.A.B.]

Other names I'll be interested are Thorpe (DC) and Garcia (OC).