Robert Marve

[Mr Dee]

4 grey cups in 23 yeas is not that impressive. 4 rings in a normal 10-15 year career for a qb? That's impressive. 4 in 23 not as much. It is acknowledged already that because of that longevity and because he did have good showings in big games that Allen had one of the best CFL careers of all time... but there was only one year where you could say he was the best quarterback in the CFL. Most other years you could point to 3 or 4 or 5 others and say that they were better. That's why Damon Allen played for damn near every team in the league. Teams always wanted more from him in the regular season. He is very much like Kevin Glenn in that regard. Only difference would be that Allen actually performed in the big games. 

 

 

 

23 years you say…is that just a coincidental number?

 

Let's face it. 23 years for an athlete to compete in any professional sport is an amazing feat.

To do it successfully is pretty good.

To exceed at it, in some years, is the ultimate goal, is it not?

A 17% success rate (4 in 23 years) doesn't seem like much, but it's a lot more than a lot of QBs.

Average to above average?

I'll take it.

[rebusrankin]

FYI my list wasn't in order for that second tier.

Lancaster played when the run was the dominant offensive play and you could hammer receivers all down the field versus today. Ecthevery too. One name I should have added was Jackie Psrker.

Oh and Mark, Peyton and Favre are on most top ten lists of QBs and they only have 1 title apiece. I've also seen Marino on my top NFL QB lists despite the lack of a championship.

[17to85]

 

4 grey cups in 23 yeas is not that impressive. 4 rings in a normal 10-15 year career for a qb? That's impressive. 4 in 23 not as much. It is acknowledged already that because of that longevity and because he did have good showings in big games that Allen had one of the best CFL careers of all time... but there was only one year where you could say he was the best quarterback in the CFL. Most other years you could point to 3 or 4 or 5 others and say that they were better. That's why Damon Allen played for damn near every team in the league. Teams always wanted more from him in the regular season. He is very much like Kevin Glenn in that regard. Only difference would be that Allen actually performed in the big games. 

 

 

 

23 years you say…is that just a coincidental number?

 

Let's face it. 23 years for an athlete to compete in any professional sport is an amazing feat.

To do it successfully is pretty good.

To exceed at it, in some years, is the ultimate goal, is it not?

A 17% success rate (4 in 23 years) doesn't seem like much, but it's a lot more than a lot of QBs.

Average to above average?

I'll take it.

 

is the best way to describe Damon Allen. No one is trying to downplay his career, just where he ranks all time. I mean let's say Glenn had won the Cup in 2007 with the Bombers and won one with Calgary... would people start looking at him as an all time great? He's got good career stats and would have had a couple championships in this what if world... or would people still say he was just too average at best?

[SmokinBlue]

Glenn has been on better teams than Allen and has not won. Whether Allen moved around or not is irrelevant, it's more because his demand was high than the other way around. The fact that he won so often while moving around so much is even more impressive than if he had been on one team.

[Mr Dee]

 

 

4 grey cups in 23 yeas is not that impressive. 4 rings in a normal 10-15 year career for a qb? That's impressive. 4 in 23 not as much. It is acknowledged already that because of that longevity and because he did have good showings in big games that Allen had one of the best CFL careers of all time... but there was only one year where you could say he was the best quarterback in the CFL. Most other years you could point to 3 or 4 or 5 others and say that they were better. That's why Damon Allen played for damn near every team in the league. Teams always wanted more from him in the regular season. He is very much like Kevin Glenn in that regard. Only difference would be that Allen actually performed in the big games. 

 

 

 

23 years you say…is that just a coincidental number?

 

Let's face it. 23 years for an athlete to compete in any professional sport is an amazing feat.

To do it successfully is pretty good.

To exceed at it, in some years, is the ultimate goal, is it not?

A 17% success rate (4 in 23 years) doesn't seem like much, but it's a lot more than a lot of QBs.

Average to above average?

I'll take it.

 

is the best way to describe Damon Allen. No one is trying to downplay his career, just where he ranks all time. I mean let's say Glenn had won the Cup in 2007 with the Bombers and won one with Calgary... would people start looking at him as an all time great? He's got good career stats and would have had a couple championships in this what if world... or would people still say he was just too average at best?

 

Still average, that doesn't change. But take average, add a handful of BTA in a year or two, and you have what Allen has done…achieved a level of play that has garnered him more respect than a guy like Glenn has.

Championships do that for a guy, a team and an organization.

The Bombers organization, at this time, would love to have that 17% success rate I was talking about.

 

I remember watching Allen. He was a bit…boring at times, but he won enough to earn more than a mere average tag.

How about average with a capitol A?

[SmokinBlue]

Exceptional.

[17to85]

Glenn has been on better teams than Allen and has not won. Whether Allen moved around or not is irrelevant, it's more because his demand was high than the other way around. The fact that he won so often while moving around so much is even more impressive than if he had been on one team.

yeah that Eskimo team Allen started on was pure crap right? Get real. 

[Mark F]

also, on all time greats, people ignore 

 

Wilkie

 

"He first led the Eskimos to a Grey Cup victory in 1975, after losses in the championship game in 1973 and 1974. After quarterbacking the Eskimos during one more Grey Cup loss in 1977, Wilkinson became part of the 5-time Grey Cup champion Eskimo dynasty from 1978 through 1981, the last two years acting as a backup to Moon."

 

re 23 years, that I think is part of what makes Damon exceptional. same as Gordie Howe. Favre. Peyton Mannning. Haley Wikenheiser. etc.

 

players that can't survive are players that might have been great. 

In sports longevity is part of greatness.

 

anyway, glad to see I'm not the only one that sees Damon Allen as one of the great CFL quarterbacks.

 

good discussion.

[Logan007]

This is the same guy, in his rookie season, that threw for 661 yards in one game.  He also won his last Grey Cup when he was 41 with the Argo's.  He threw for over 5000 yards in a season when he was 42, and threw 33 TD passes.  He broke 1000 yards rushing in his last season with Ottawa.  He broke 700 yards rushing 8 of his 23 years playing.  And it looks like he was the first string QB 20 of those 23 years as being a QB.  For a guy you're deeming as average, he sure broke quite a few records.  No, he wasn't the greatest QB, but he certainly wasn't just average.  I'd say he did pretty well for himself.

[SPuDS]

This is the same guy, in his rookie season, that threw for 661 yards in one game.  He also won his last Grey Cup when he was 41 with the Argo's.  He threw for over 5000 yards in a season when he was 42, and threw 33 TD passes.  He broke 1000 yards rushing in his last season with Ottawa.  He broke 700 yards rushing 8 of his 23 years playing.  And it looks like he was the first string QB 20 of those 23 years as being a QB.  For a guy you're deeming as average, he sure broke quite a few records.  No, he wasn't the greatest QB, but he certainly wasn't just average.  I'd say he did pretty well for himself.

K.. Fine fine..

He was an Exceptional Above Average QB...

[Logan007]

 

This is the same guy, in his rookie season, that threw for 661 yards in one game.  He also won his last Grey Cup when he was 41 with the Argo's.  He threw for over 5000 yards in a season when he was 42, and threw 33 TD passes.  He broke 1000 yards rushing in his last season with Ottawa.  He broke 700 yards rushing 8 of his 23 years playing.  And it looks like he was the first string QB 20 of those 23 years as being a QB.  For a guy you're deeming as average, he sure broke quite a few records.  No, he wasn't the greatest QB, but he certainly wasn't just average.  I'd say he did pretty well for himself.

K.. Fine fine..

He was an Exceptional Above Average QB...

 

That's all I'm saying.

[SPuDS]

This is the same guy, in his rookie season, that threw for 661 yards in one game.  He also won his last Grey Cup when he was 41 with the Argo's.  He threw for over 5000 yards in a season when he was 42, and threw 33 TD passes.  He broke 1000 yards rushing in his last season with Ottawa.  He broke 700 yards rushing 8 of his 23 years playing.  And it looks like he was the first string QB 20 of those 23 years as being a QB.  For a guy you're deeming as average, he sure broke quite a few records.  No, he wasn't the greatest QB, but he certainly wasn't just average.  I'd say he did pretty well for himself.

K.. Fine fine..

He was an Exceptional Above Average QB...

That's all I'm saying.

Truthfully, I think that is what most of us are saying.. It's other folk who seem to think that anything other then "omgz bestest mobility QB evar!!" Is an insult to his accomplishments... When, really... Saying he belongs in the hall, that he had a great career despite not being the most accurate or "football talent" QB are not insults either..

This place simply spawns bitchfest after bitchfest.... Can we all agree on that at least? Lol.

[SmokinBlue]

Glenn has been on better teams than Allen and has not won. Whether Allen moved around or not is irrelevant, it's more because his demand was high than the other way around. The fact that he won so often while moving around so much is even more impressive than if he had been on one team.

yeah that Eskimo team Allen started on was pure crap right? Get real.

you get real we're talking 23 freaking seasons worth of teams, think before you speak.

[SmokinBlue]

This is the same guy, in his rookie season, that threw for 661 yards in one game.  He also won his last Grey Cup when he was 41 with the Argo's.  He threw for over 5000 yards in a season when he was 42, and threw 33 TD passes.  He broke 1000 yards rushing in his last season with Ottawa.  He broke 700 yards rushing 8 of his 23 years playing.  And it looks like he was the first string QB 20 of those 23 years as being a QB.  For a guy you're deeming as average, he sure broke quite a few records.  No, he wasn't the greatest QB, but he certainly wasn't just average.  I'd say he did pretty well for himself.

K.. Fine fine..

He was an Exceptional Above Average QB...

That's all I'm saying.

Truthfully, I think that is what most of us are saying.. It's other folk who seem to think that anything other then "omgz bestest mobility QB evar!!" Is an insult to his accomplishments... When, really... Saying he belongs in the hall, that he had a great career despite not being the most accurate or "football talent" QB are not insults either..

This place simply spawns bitchfest after bitchfest.... Can we all agree on that at least? Lol.

do you even read what you type? You obviously can't read what others type so I doubt itm

[dmillerywg]

 

 

 

 

This is the same guy, in his rookie season, that threw for 661 yards in one game.  He also won his last Grey Cup when he was 41 with the Argo's.  He threw for over 5000 yards in a season when he was 42, and threw 33 TD passes.  He broke 1000 yards rushing in his last season with Ottawa.  He broke 700 yards rushing 8 of his 23 years playing.  And it looks like he was the first string QB 20 of those 23 years as being a QB.  For a guy you're deeming as average, he sure broke quite a few records.  No, he wasn't the greatest QB, but he certainly wasn't just average.  I'd say he did pretty well for himself.

K.. Fine fine..

He was an Exceptional Above Average QB...

That's all I'm saying.

Truthfully, I think that is what most of us are saying.. It's other folk who seem to think that anything other then "omgz bestest mobility QB evar!!" Is an insult to his accomplishments... When, really... Saying he belongs in the hall, that he had a great career despite not being the most accurate or "football talent" QB are not insults either..

This place simply spawns bitchfest after bitchfest.... Can we all agree on that at least? Lol.

do you even read what you type? You obviously can't read what others type so I doubt itm

 

I thought this post was about the Bombers QBs ?

[johnzo]

 4 grey cups in 23 yeas is not that impressive. 4 rings in a normal 10-15 year career for a qb? That's impressive. 4 in 23 not as much.

 

All things being equal, a CFL starter ought to win a Grey Cup every eight or nine years, so Allen won them at a pretty good clip.  I'm trying to think of guys who did better in Grey Cups than Allen:

 

Moon, obviously, went 5-0 in Grey Cups over six seasons, though he didn't start in two of those wins.

 

Flutie was 3-1 in eight seasons.

 

Ray has gone 3-0 in twelve seasons, not counting 2014.

 

Calvillo was 3-5 in twenty seasons.

 

McManus was 3-2 in seventeen seasons, but had only garbage time in the 1990 win and came off the bench for the 1994 win.  He played a hell of a game in the '96 loss though.

 

I think I agree with the people who are saying that Damon Allen that he was a B+ QB with an A+ career.  But if I had to choose a starter for a Grey Cup game, it'd be a tough call between him, Ray, Flutie, or Moon. And Moon and Flutie had stacked teams for their wins.  Allen won the Grey Cup with good teams, but never dominating ones.

[Dascow]

The tough choice is between Flutie and Moon.  Allen is not in their class. 

[holoman]

 

 4 grey cups in 23 yeas is not that impressive. 4 rings in a normal 10-15 year career for a qb? That's impressive. 4 in 23 not as much.

 

All things being equal, a CFL starter ought to win a Grey Cup every eight or nine years, so Allen won them at a pretty good clip.  I'm trying to think of guys who did better in Grey Cups than Allen:

 

Moon, obviously, went 5-0 in Grey Cups over six seasons, though he didn't start in two of those wins.

 

Flutie was 3-1 in eight seasons.

 

Ray has gone 3-1 in twelve seasons, not counting 2014.

 

Calvillo was 3-5 in twenty seasons.

 

McManus was 3-2 in seventeen seasons, but had only garbage time in the 1990 win and came off the bench for the 1994 win.  He played a hell of a game in the '96 loss though.

 

I think I agree with the people who are saying that Damon Allen that he was a B+ QB with an A+ career.  But if I had to choose a starter for a Grey Cup game, it'd be a tough call between him, Ray, Flutie, or Moon. And Moon and Flutie had stacked teams for their wins.  Allen won the Grey Cup with good teams, but never dominating ones.

 

Fixed 

[Mark F]

 

 4 grey cups in 23 yeas is not that impressive. 4 rings in a normal 10-15 year career for a qb? That's impressive. 4 in 23 not as much.

 

All things being equal, a CFL starter ought to win a Grey Cup every eight or nine years, so Allen won them at a pretty good clip.  I'm trying to think of guys who did better in Grey Cups than Allen:

 

Moon, obviously, went 5-0 in Grey Cups over six seasons, though he didn't start in two of those wins.

 

Flutie was 3-1 in eight seasons.

 

Ray has gone 3-0 in twelve seasons, not counting 2014.

 

Calvillo was 3-5 in twenty seasons.

 

McManus was 3-2 in seventeen seasons, but had only garbage time in the 1990 win and came off the bench for the 1994 win.  He played a hell of a game in the '96 loss though.

 

I think I agree with the people who are saying that Damon Allen that he was a B+ QB with an A+ career.  But if I had to choose a starter for a Grey Cup game, it'd be a tough call between him, Ray, Flutie, or Moon. And Moon and Flutie had stacked teams for their wins.  Allen won the Grey Cup with good teams, but never dominating ones.

 

 

great analysis, well done and thanks.

 

I can't say if Flutie was better, or Moon, but the first time I saw Flutie, at the old stadium, I thought right away, best player in the history of the CFL. 

 

 

There was a good "A football life" show done on Doug Flutie last night, on NFL network. Well worth it if you are/were a fan.

[Logan007]

 

 

 4 grey cups in 23 yeas is not that impressive. 4 rings in a normal 10-15 year career for a qb? That's impressive. 4 in 23 not as much.

 

All things being equal, a CFL starter ought to win a Grey Cup every eight or nine years, so Allen won them at a pretty good clip.  I'm trying to think of guys who did better in Grey Cups than Allen:

 

Moon, obviously, went 5-0 in Grey Cups over six seasons, though he didn't start in two of those wins.

 

Flutie was 3-1 in eight seasons.

 

Ray has gone 3-0 in twelve seasons, not counting 2014.

 

Calvillo was 3-5 in twenty seasons.

 

McManus was 3-2 in seventeen seasons, but had only garbage time in the 1990 win and came off the bench for the 1994 win.  He played a hell of a game in the '96 loss though.

 

I think I agree with the people who are saying that Damon Allen that he was a B+ QB with an A+ career.  But if I had to choose a starter for a Grey Cup game, it'd be a tough call between him, Ray, Flutie, or Moon. And Moon and Flutie had stacked teams for their wins.  Allen won the Grey Cup with good teams, but never dominating ones.

 

 

great analysis, well done and thanks.

 

I can't say if Flutie was better, or Moon, but the first time I saw Flutie, at the old stadium, I thought right away, best player in the history of the CFL. 

 

 

There was a good "A football life" show done on Doug Flutie last night, on NFL network. Well worth it if you are/were a fan.

 

Pfff...thanks for telling us about it a day late.

 

[17to85]

you ever stop and think that the reason Allen never won with dominant teams is because he wasn't a good enough quarterback to be dominant?

[Tracker]

 

 

 4 grey cups in 23 yeas is not that impressive. 4 rings in a normal 10-15 year career for a qb? That's impressive. 4 in 23 not as much.

 

All things being equal, a CFL starter ought to win a Grey Cup every eight or nine years, so Allen won them at a pretty good clip.  I'm trying to think of guys who did better in Grey Cups than Allen:

 

Moon, obviously, went 5-0 in Grey Cups over six seasons, though he didn't start in two of those wins.

 

Flutie was 3-1 in eight seasons.

 

Ray has gone 3-0 in twelve seasons, not counting 2014.

 

Calvillo was 3-5 in twenty seasons.

 

McManus was 3-2 in seventeen seasons, but had only garbage time in the 1990 win and came off the bench for the 1994 win.  He played a hell of a game in the '96 loss though.

 

I think I agree with the people who are saying that Damon Allen that he was a B+ QB with an A+ career.  But if I had to choose a starter for a Grey Cup game, it'd be a tough call between him, Ray, Flutie, or Moon. And Moon and Flutie had stacked teams for their wins.  Allen won the Grey Cup with good teams, but never dominating ones.

 

 

great analysis, well done and thanks.

 

I can't say if Flutie was better, or Moon, but the first time I saw Flutie, at the old stadium, I thought right away, best player in the history of the CFL. 

 

 

There was a good "A football life" show done on Doug Flutie last night, on NFL network. Well worth it if you are/were a fan.

 

Comparing Moon and Flutie is like comparing apples and oranges- Flutie had the intelligence, instincts and drive, and Moon had the pure physical presence. I still remember Moon shaking off tackles when they had him dead to rights. Possibly the best athlete every to play in the CFL.

[pigseye]

you ever stop and think that the reason Allen never won with dominant teams is because he wasn't a good enough quarterback to be dominant?

 

3 GC MOP awards suggests the opposite, he was a great QB elevating some very average teams.

[Westy Sucks]

So stupidly typical....barely half a game of decent (not great) play and we've got boneheads anointing Robert Marve as the next coming of whoever....geez guys...pull back a little...

 

And for those who are saying yay yay about our QB depth...a bunch were also saying that about Buck, Alex & Joey...look how long that lasted...remember that???  Anyone???

 

so yes, let's just relax here ok...

[17to85]

 

you ever stop and think that the reason Allen never won with dominant teams is because he wasn't a good enough quarterback to be dominant?

 

3 GC MOP awards suggests the opposite, he was a great QB elevating some very average teams.

 

That just says he did well under pressure. The MOP award generally goes to the winning qb anyway, unless they completely crapped their pants. Apparently a lot of people only remember Damon Allen from his time with the Argos. If he was truly one of the elite qbs the game has seen he would have been on dominant teams because dominant teams have dominant quarterbacks.