Negatrons, Gloomers & Homers

[BigBlue]

"You know, I'm really starting to notice ... as much as people say we have homers, we sure do have a ton of gloomers as well."

Can a Bomber fan express frustration and disappointment without being kicked out of True Blue Club ... or being named a Negatron?

To be considered loyal do we have to make ourselves a "homer" and at all costs avoid being labeled a "gloomer"?

For an all-tolerant-society, and on this posting board in particular, there is a whole lot of judging, bashing and gaffing going on. Does the semi-anonymous nature of the site help us realize who we really are, instead of what we would prefer to appear as?

Isn't it true that all of us have a good and bad side ... A mix of human nature?

I for one would like to see a greater appreciation for all the differing points of view about our ball club. And isn't it true that those who call out a poster as a negatron are themselves the biggest negatrons of all?

I believe we have a fantastic discussion board here at "Morning Big Blue" and that is absolutely wonderful that we can give, politely, full vent to our wide range of emotions about our beloved Blue. Isn't it great that we have a place to compare analysis about the progress of our football club?

So who are the negatron's, homers and gloomers, really?

[Rich]

I certainly agree that calling out other posters, calling them names, and labels, etc is one of the things I hate the most.  Why?  Because there is a large contingent of people / lurkers who see and feel that if they post their opinion and are going to get personally attacked for it, they won’t do it. 

And when that happens we get the same people posting the same things and things start to become stale.  New people, points of view, opinions, and personalities are very much welcomed and wanted.

 

Now having said that, to respond to your post, it is human nature to “group up” with the people who think the same way as you, and “not like” people who post opposing opinions.  Why?  Because we all like to feel validated in the way that we feel and think, and we get that validation when people post or agree and the opposite when they don’t.

 

You are correct, that we should have a greater appreciation for opposing viewpoints, and keep the discussion on topic, not insults on each other.

Personally, I would probably label myself as falling more into the homer category, though  try to keep an open and objective point of view.   Why am I like that?  Because I am an eternal optimistic fan.  If I didn’t feel that way, if I felt the way some of the “negatron” and “gloomers” appear to feel, I would cease investing my time and money in this board and following the team.

 

Not saying everyone has to be that way to be a fan of the team, just the reason I am the way I am.  Heck, I actually “liked” one of TBURGESS’ posts today, maybe I’m going to the other side…

[17to85]

 Because there is a large contingent of people / lurkers who see and feel that if they post their opinion and are going to get personally attacked for it, they won’t do it. 

part of putting your opinion out there is subjecting it to the judgement of the masses. Not every opinion is valid or good and if you can't handle people judging your opinions then lurking is the best place for someone to be.

 

As for homers. gloomers or whatever else, it's not about being negative, it's just that some people do fall into these categories. I can think of some people who always say positive things about the team, and I can think of people who do massively under rate things about this team. This isn't about disagreeing with opinions, it's about some people always acting in the same way. I like to think that I am a positive person in general with regards to the Bombers, but I can point out when something isn't good enough without resorting to the hyperbole that some people seem to need to do. Flaws can be pointed out without the doom and gloom. Positives can be pointed out without being a kool aid drinker. A lot of people here don't seem to get that though. 

[Yourface]

I agree. A lot of us tend to be too condescending towards one another around here (can't say I'm not guilty of that sometimes).

[Noeller]

You have Spuds way too far on one end, TBurg WAY too far on the other end. The best place to be is somewhere in the middle of that. I think that's where *most* on here do tend to fall...

[Mike]

Interesting that you'd take my quote out of context but anyways ... all I was really pointing out is that it's interesting to me that a lot of people seem to want to make things sound even worse than they are around here ... which I can't quite understand. There's enough to be upset about without having to fabricate things.

[Rich]

 

 Because there is a large contingent of people / lurkers who see and feel that if they post their opinion and are going to get personally attacked for it, they won’t do it. 

part of putting your opinion out there is subjecting it to the judgement of the masses. Not every opinion is valid or good and if you can't handle people judging your opinions then lurking is the best place for someone to be.

 

As for homers. gloomers or whatever else, it's not about being negative, it's just that some people do fall into these categories. I can think of some people who always say positive things about the team, and I can think of people who do massively under rate things about this team. This isn't about disagreeing with opinions, it's about some people always acting in the same way. I like to think that I am a positive person in general with regards to the Bombers, but I can point out when something isn't good enough without resorting to the hyperbole that some people seem to need to do. Flaws can be pointed out without the doom and gloom. Positives can be pointed out without being a kool aid drinker. A lot of people here don't seem to get that though. 

 

 

 

Then judge people's opinions, I have no issues with that.  Calling someone stupid, dumb, or any personal insult is what I have issue with.  That includes calling someone's opinion stupid.  If you feel that passionately about what someone typed to actually respond to it, then tell them why you disagree with it, not simply that it is a dumb opinion.

 

I've seen message boards were new people posting are jumped on by multiple different people when they post.  Haven't really seen it happen here, but that pack mentality is bad for message boards.

[Mr Dee]

You can be positive with a few jibes against one's team, but if the preponderance of posts is taking shots at our team, you're going to get taken to task, especially if it's more whining than factual.

[sweep the leg]

 And isn't it true that those who call out a poster as a negatron are themselves the biggest negatrons of all?

 

That's pretty deep.

[Ripper]

A good fan holds his team accountable. I think most posters do that. Its the ones too far to the left or the right that cause sparks to fly. Truth be told some people can't control their emotions enough after a loss to post with any common sense, OH YA I've done it, and that's when the most over board posts generally come. Or when fans of other teams are trolling your board to stir up crap. Nothing worse than losing and then getting it rubbed in your face after. I follow the Bombers very closely as I am a big football fan and have some good friends who are Bomber fans. Even though some may feel I am a enemy fan, I don't troll your board and therefore have not met any hostility here. I like your site and check it out at least once a day, lots of good threads, this one included. Some good back a forth with other fans is fun and healthy as long as it doesn't go too far. I think most posts are met with the level of passion as how they were posted. A over the top post is called out directly in the same manner as it should be. IMHO there is nothing wrong with being passionate about your team. I'm dam proud of mine, ok maybe not so much at this moment lol, and I appreciate any other fan who is too regardless of who he cheers for. As far as the bombers, as a outsider looking in, you found a qb and a rb this year things are looking up for sure.

[johnzo]

In 2011 I did a study on the ourbombers community, looking to see how members posting' frequency varied in the 3 days following wins vs. the 3 days following losses.

 

What I found was that certain posters were way more likely to post in the days following a loss. Losses seemed to energize those posters, making them louder.

 

I also noticed that a lot of the posters that I personally respect were participating consistently no matter how the team was doing.

 

(here's the results: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiLFGLZnbIP9dC1UaGRVRWNzd2Z4Q3o5Ni1RQ25vc2c&usp=drive_web#gid=0)

[MOBomberFan]

In 2011 I did a study on the ourbombers community, looking to see how members posting' frequency varied in the 3 days following wins vs. the 3 days following losses.

 

What I found was that certain posters were way more likely to post in the days following a loss. Losses seemed to energize those posters, making them louder.

 

I also noticed that a lot of the posters that I personally respect were participating consistently no matter how the team was doing.

 

(here's the results: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiLFGLZnbIP9dC1UaGRVRWNzd2Z4Q3o5Ni1RQ25vc2c&usp=drive_web#gid=0)

Wow, some of the names on there... a trip down memory lane

[17to85]

 

 

 Because there is a large contingent of people / lurkers who see and feel that if they post their opinion and are going to get personally attacked for it, they won’t do it. 

part of putting your opinion out there is subjecting it to the judgement of the masses. Not every opinion is valid or good and if you can't handle people judging your opinions then lurking is the best place for someone to be.

 

As for homers. gloomers or whatever else, it's not about being negative, it's just that some people do fall into these categories. I can think of some people who always say positive things about the team, and I can think of people who do massively under rate things about this team. This isn't about disagreeing with opinions, it's about some people always acting in the same way. I like to think that I am a positive person in general with regards to the Bombers, but I can point out when something isn't good enough without resorting to the hyperbole that some people seem to need to do. Flaws can be pointed out without the doom and gloom. Positives can be pointed out without being a kool aid drinker. A lot of people here don't seem to get that though. 

 

 

 

Then judge people's opinions, I have no issues with that.  Calling someone stupid, dumb, or any personal insult is what I have issue with.  That includes calling someone's opinion stupid.  If you feel that passionately about what someone typed to actually respond to it, then tell them why you disagree with it, not simply that it is a dumb opinion.

 

I've seen message boards were new people posting are jumped on by multiple different people when they post.  Haven't really seen it happen here, but that pack mentality is bad for message boards.

 

I am sorry but some opinions are stupid and deserve to be called so. To not do it is to do a disservice to people. They will go on continuing to think just because it's their opinion that it's valid and right because everyone is entitled to their opinions.

[Tehedra]

Great thing about opinions are they are just that, an opinion.  No opinion can be smart, dumb, correct or incorrect it's a personal belief something someone feels.  Their opinion regarding a topic of matter.   Facts on the other hand are either correct or incorrect, and Analysis based on these facts can be either correct or incorrect.  I think that is where a lot of people forget that an opinion in nothing more than how someone views or feels about a topic or an event.

 

Example

 

it is my OPINION that Moore is often injured and not worth 185k/yr

it could be someone elses OPINION that Moore does more for the team when he's on field than any other receiver and thus he is worth 185k/yr

 

Neither are right nor wrong because they are both opinions on the topic to which some may agree or disagree.  But this is not an analysis. 

 

Now if I were to do an analysis on the player, and then on all other receivers that also play.  While reviewing the game film to actually provide something measureable and present this than it could be considered either right, based on correct information and facts or wrong based on incorrect information, or missing information and facts required to complete the Analysis.  Of course, an Analysis could be argued in both ways so even than the final point is only correct or incorrect based on the analysis and argument that was made.

 

This is a difficult example though as most of us do not really have access to the film to be able to prove either way when it comes down to football.  Although it is my opinion that the coaches do perform analysis on a players play.

 

The hard part is most people are not able to read without bias, and it's even harder to post without bias. 

 

But then again is this not what a discussion board is about?  I do tend to agree with the OP that it is always more constructive to point argue reasons in why I may disagree with someone's opinion vs point out what is incorrect with their opinion or that in my opinion I believe their opinion is stupid

[Rod Black]

Rich and Mike. If there is a issue with name calling, stating someone is stupid, or dumb, that is on this site, I would think that as administrators or moderators, you each have the ability to to enforce the code of conduct. That would also include sanctioning trolls. To your credit, I see you pleading to the participants of the MBB, that's what leaders do. The same leaders could also mold the board with additional forms of ....uhm, motivation. And I hear ya.

[Rich]

Rich and Mike. If there is a issue with name calling, stating someone is stupid, or dumb, that is on this site, I would think that as administrators or moderators, you each have the ability to to enforce the code of conduct. That would also include sanctioning trolls. To your credit, I see you pleading to the participants of the MBB, that's what leaders do. The same leaders could also mold the board with additional forms of ....hum motivation. And I hear ya.

 

This is probably the largest thing I do in terms of moderating on the board.   Edit portions of posts that do this or delete them entirely.  

 

I know stuff slips through that we miss, but hey these aren't paid positions where we are on the lookout 24 / 7     If we do miss them and others see it, then click the Report link that is on the bottom of every post.  It flags it so that a moderator can take a look at it.

 

As a reminder, from the code of conduct:

 

 

 

2. Members are expected to behave in a reasonable manner and with a spirit of goodwill, and opinions should be posted and read in good faith. Challenging other users' points of view and opinions is perfectly acceptable; however do so respectfully and thoughtfully. Abusive or insulting postings will not be tolerated.

[Rod Black]

Rich and Mike. If there is a issue with name calling, stating someone is stupid, or dumb, that is on this site, I would think that as administrators or moderators, you each have the ability to to enforce the code of conduct. That would also include sanctioning trolls. To your credit, I see you pleading to the participants of the MBB, that's what leaders do. The same leaders could also mold the board with additional forms of ....hum motivation. And I hear ya.

 

This is probably the largest thing I do in terms of moderating on the board.   Edit portions of posts that do this or delete them entirely.  

 

I know stuff slips through that we miss, but hey these aren't paid positions where we are on the lookout 24 / 7     If we do miss them and others see it, then click the Report link that is on the bottom of every post.  It flags it so that a moderator can take a look at it.

 

As a reminder, from the code of conduct:

 

 

 

2. Members are expected to behave in a reasonable manner and with a spirit of goodwill, and opinions should be posted and read in good faith. Challenging other users' points of view and opinions is perfectly acceptable; however do so respectfully and thoughtfully. Abusive or insulting postings will not be tolerated.

Wow. I'd bet there have been some nastys. If you wanna write a book, you can call it, "you wanted to post, THAT?"

Gee, can't say if I've ever had a post deleted or edited. Thanks.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

The thing about the negatrons & gloomers though(and I was admittedly one of them b4 the season) is that they have been more right then wrong the last couple of years.

 

Win and they disappear, lose every game after week 8 and they come back. In fact the WBB negatron bandwagon will be in this years Grey Cup Parade.

[Mike]

Rich and Mike. If there is a issue with name calling, stating someone is stupid, or dumb, that is on this site, I would think that as administrators or moderators, you each have the ability to to enforce the code of conduct. That would also include sanctioning trolls. To your credit, I see you pleading to the participants of the MBB, that's what leaders do. The same leaders could also mold the board with additional forms of ....uhm, motivation. And I hear ya.

 

I'd say we're fairly lenient. That being said, you'd probably be shocked at how much we do get rid of.

 

I won't speak for any of the other moderators or administrators around here, but I find that the majority of what I have to delete is stuff that stems from people not being willing or interested in using the report function and just taking it upon themselves to open fire on a post they deem against the code of conduct.

 

Myself, I very rarely see any posts that our members have reported. A few now and then.

[Atomic]

Every fan base has every type. Lose and you see more negativity, win and you see more positivity. Look at the Rider fans. Even one year removed from a Grey Cup, some fans want to fire everyone. It's just the way some people are. Telling people to quit being so positive or negative often has the opposite effect that you desire... pushing them further in that direction. Sometimes I think we could have better dialogue it we were anonymous... but that would take some of the fun out of it. God bless sports.

[Atomic]

To add to Mike's point about reporting, it is actually quite effective. I know Rich has responded quickly any time I have filed a legitimate report.

[LeBird]

Kool aid might be good for some but as you grow older you sort of migrate to the Show Me State of Missouri. We are not so ready to accept opinions that are presented as facts and defended as such. So while attempting to challenge the option the thread quickly  spirals into negativity with one claiming to be the defender of the faith and the other branded a negatron. 

 

Homers tend to make more excuses while negatron tend to use too wide a brush.

[Jaxon]

 

In 2011 I did a study on the ourbombers community, looking to see how members posting' frequency varied in the 3 days following wins vs. the 3 days following losses.

 

What I found was that certain posters were way more likely to post in the days following a loss. Losses seemed to energize those posters, making them louder.

 

I also noticed that a lot of the posters that I personally respect were participating consistently no matter how the team was doing.

 

(here's the results: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiLFGLZnbIP9dC1UaGRVRWNzd2Z4Q3o5Ni1RQ25vc2c&usp=drive_web#gid=0)

Wow, some of the names on there... a trip down memory lane

 

Proud to come in at 49% posting after a loss.  I am a loyal Bomber fan, but I'm not a cheerleader.  I'm also a huge fan of the game, plan to be at IGF Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday this week for WHSFL/Bison/football Manitoba championship weekend. 

 

One of the things I learned years ago on some of the league sites that I used to frequent is that there are some posters, using multiple nicknames, who post doom and gloom on all team's sites.  "We'll never win the cup this year because........"   Then they get to go back to 8 out of 9 sites and say "I told you so" at the end of the year.

 

I like a good football discussion, and I can take the good with the bad.   Trollers, pretenders, and those prone to hyperbole, however, serve no useful purpose.

[sweep the leg]

To add to Mike's point about reporting, it is actually quite effective. I know Rich has responded quickly any time I have filed a legitimate report.

How many complaints to mods have you had to make?

[17to85]

 No opinion can be smart, dumb, correct or incorrect it's a personal belief something someone feels.  

no this is 100% false. Some opinions can be dumb and incorrect and some smart and correct. "I like chocolate more than vanilla" is a subjective opinion that depends on the person expressing said opinion, "In my opinion Drew Willy can't read a defense" is a dumb and incorrect opinion.