Beasts and Bums

[Guest J5V]

Beasts:
 Wpg Fans - Love their team, even one this bad
 Hall - Looked like a QB. Made reads, checked down on receivers, found Edwards and Kohlert all day
 Edwards - Great hands. Showed toughness. No quit.
 Kohlert - Made catch of the game with one-hander. Made clutch TD grab. No quit.
 Markett - Tries hard. Good on special teams.
 Woods - Game breaker. Runs well, good speed.

Bums:
 Crowton - Just doesn't get it
 Matthews - Too soft
 Poblah - Brain dead
 Suber - Once great, now a bum. Time to go
 Wpg Secondary - Sliced and diced all year, game after game
 Wpg O-line - Please Santa, give Chris Simpson an O-line this year. Please!

[JuranBoldenRules]

Watching the secondary closely when the play was in front of me, most of the breakdowns appear to be on C Muamba.  He takes a very deep drop (essentially taking himself out of the play) and is always 3 or 4 yards late.  He's covering turf (a general problem for this secondary in zone) and not covering receivers or playing the ball because he's worried about getting beat deep.  He doesn't have a clue.  The most useful thing he's done this season is blitz.  We'd almost be better off dropping another guy in the box and sending extra rushers in a zone blitz to disrupt the QB's timing than having C Muamba playing DEEP safety.

 

The same 7 yard pass to the inside slot on a hook was there every first down.  Hamilton must have run that play 15 times successfully.  If we're going to suck we could at least be a bit of a speed bump.  Hard to imagine the same guys were responsible for the 2011 defence, it is like they've lost 50 IQ points each since then.

[Guest]

After all the hype Poblah came in with, you just have to shake your head.

Edwards was the beast of the night, looked like the TE of old, was making plays and didn't give up. Actually I don't recall seeing him complain to the refs once, he just did his job.

Crowton, Burke and Creehan shouldn't be here much longer. Clearly Hamilton adjusted to what Hall and the offense was doing, Crowton doesn't seem to understand why adjustments should be made.

 

IMO Hall wasn't a beast or a bum, thought he looked like a poised QB out there and would like to see him get at least another game. However I'm actually really worried about his arm strength.

[iso_55]

His lack of arm strength was a surprise.I thought he was stronger throwing the ball than that. I like his accuracy but after thgat shot to the chest he was basically done throwing. Well, Tommy Clements didn't have a strong arm but he was a smart qb so if he understands the game, we may be okay. No more Goltz. I'd be okay with Buck coming back before Goltz. Seen enough of him.

[Blueandgold]

I have to say, once Watson is back I don't think we can afford to take Etienne or Kohlert off of the field. I'd start the three of them along with Edwards and Matthews, and use the extra import spot on either a) a guard to replace Swiston/Morely or another safety to rotate with Cauchy Muamba.

[pigseye]

This team is even worse live than on TV, my god. I can't remember anything this bad since the Jim Daily days, what a complete and utter mess. I don't think I can name 12 starters on offence or defence that I wouldn't purge asap.

[JuranBoldenRules]

I have to say, once Watson is back I don't think we can afford to take Etienne or Kohlert off of the field. I'd start the three of them along with Edwards and Matthews, and use the extra import spot on either a) a guard to replace Swiston/Morely or another safety to rotate with Cauchy Muamba.

 

Pierce needs to replace Matthews yesterday.  Matthews is a negative player for us in a vital position, not only struggling, but negatively impacting the entire offence.

[AKAChip]

His lack of arm strength was a surprise.I thought he was stronger throwing the ball than that. I like his accuracy but after thgat shot to the chest he was basically done throwing. Well, Tommy Clements didn't have a strong arm but he was a smart qb so if he understands the game, we may be okay. No more Goltz. I'd be okay with Buck coming back before Goltz. Seen enough of him.

 

What about the three plays Goltz was in for today lead you to this conclusion? Was it the QB sneak?

[iso_55]

What about the three plays Goltz was in for today lead you to this conclusion? Was it the QB sneak?

The 2 1/2 games already played. Goltz's accuracy on his throws. If he hasn't figured it out by now, he never will.

[AKAChip]

Ok. It just seemed like it was his performance tonight that sealed the deal for you.

 

 

I'd give him more than 2 games to judge him but I was more than impressed with Hall and the way he played. He has poise coming out the ass.

[road griller]

Hall is not the answer imo.  His arm is weak, his accuracy is poor. 

 

Should have stuck with Goltz, like Timbo said they were going to.  All they did was piss people off and set back another Q.B's development.

 

I really feel sorry for some of these players, they deserve better.

[iso_55]

Ok. It just seemed like it was his performance tonight that sealed the deal for you.

 

 

I'd give him more than 2 games to judge him but I was more than impressed with Hall and the way he played. He has poise coming out the ass.

Way more accuracy than Goltz. Hall has a better upside than Goltz. I liked what I saw out of Max Hall.  That shot he took to the chest obviously affected him. He probably shouldn't have been playing as you could see he was in pain on the sidelines. The other thing I liked about Hall was the fact he's been a pro in the NFL for  a short while as he said in his interview yesterday so he understands how the pro game works with players gaining & losing starting spots. I don't expect any "betrayal" comments coming from him if they start someone else.  

[James]

Its getting to the point for me JBR, that I'd cut Cauchy even if it meant pissing off Henoc and losing him to FA.

 

And I agree about Matthews. Teams figured him out and now he's completely ineffective. Not to mention when he actually does get open he drops the ball.

 

The coverage in our secondary seems lazy and way to soft. Not sure if it is Creehan? Because these guys in 2011 were incredible. 

 

Either way, this team needs a complete face lift. Coaching staff and players alike.

 

Only guys I'd like to keep around are Watson, Kohlert, Etienne, and the Dline and Linebackers. I like Henoc, Dunn, Parker and Wild... and the Dline has been pretty awesome... Other then that I could care less. Edwards is old now and will probably retire soon, though he is obviously still our best Import... So that's why I didn't include him.

 

I used to really like Simpson, But the dude seriously needs to learn when to run low and dip his shoulders, square off to the line and run guys over. That play where Jamal Johnson crushed him he was to busy trying to dance around when he should have just run him over. Its not like he doesn't have the size and strength.

[blitzmore]

Hall is not the answer imo.  His arm is weak, his accuracy is poor. 

 

Should have stuck with Goltz, like Timbo said they were going to.  All they did was piss people off and set back another Q.B's development.

 

I really feel sorry for some of these players, they deserve better.

You must be kidding...Hall's accuracy is way better than Goltz...Goltz has never been accurate even in practice!

[Mark H.]

Watching the secondary closely when the play was in front of me, most of the breakdowns appear to be on C Muamba.  He takes a very deep drop (essentially taking himself out of the play) and is always 3 or 4 yards late.  He's covering turf (a general problem for this secondary in zone) and not covering receivers or playing the ball because he's worried about getting beat deep.  He doesn't have a clue.  The most useful thing he's done this season is blitz.  We'd almost be better off dropping another guy in the box and sending extra rushers in a zone blitz to disrupt the QB's timing than having C Muamba playing DEEP safety.

 

The same 7 yard pass to the inside slot on a hook was there every first down.  Hamilton must have run that play 15 times successfully.  If we're going to suck we could at least be a bit of a speed bump.  Hard to imagine the same guys were responsible for the 2011 defence, it is like they've lost 50 IQ points each since then.

 

The 2011 Defense was built on the secondary being able to cover man to man effectively. What the cuss happened to that unit?

[rebusrankin]

Agree on C. Muamba.Although do you think the secondary's issues are all him or on the players too? Suber seems to be having a bad year. In fact, Washington looks like the only keeper.

Thought Swiston was an improvement over Morley and looked ok.

Boatman needs to go. Seriously start Morley at tackle over him. Start a pylon. Anything.

Linebackers have been a surprise, Parker and Wild both look like players.

[Guest J5V]

I have to say, once Watson is back I don't think we can afford to take Etienne or Kohlert off of the field. I'd start the three of them along with Edwards and Matthews, and use the extra import spot on either a) a guard to replace Swiston/Morely or another safety to rotate with Cauchy Muamba.

 

Not impressed with Matthews.

[Guest J5V]

Pierce needs to replace Matthews yesterday.  Matthews is a negative player for us in a vital position, not only struggling, but negatively impacting the entire offence.

 

Matthews is so soft. What happened to him?

[Logan007]

The 2011 Defense was built on the secondary being able to cover man to man effectively. What the cuss happened to that unit?

 

The defense fell apart the day Coach Harris passed away.  Ever since then our D has sucked.

[road griller]

You must be kidding...Hall's accuracy is way better than Goltz...Goltz has never been accurate even in practice!

Nope, should have been 3-4 picks last night.  Even the pass to Edwards near the end was a Lucky Duck that could have easily been picked if Hammy was not already in party mode.  The pass to Poblah took forever to arrive.  Need to zip that pass in.

 

Goltz can run and has arm strength, let him play and get his timing down.    

 

They are going to expose Hall now knowing he can't escape the pocket and has a noodle arm.

[voodoochylde]

Beasts

• Shout out to the fans who came out to support this train wreck.
• Hall.  I know the offense struggled in the second half but there are blocks to build with.  He played with poise, showed good anticipation and grit.  Showed some smarts leaning on his veteran receiver. 
• Edwards.  Guy was determined to help this offense move forward and put his QB in a position to succeed.

Bums

• Desia Dunn; picked on all night long and was a step behind most of the night.
• Creehan.  Love his intensity as a positional coach - why doesn't that translate to his defensive philosophy as a co-ordinator?  Jekyll and Hyde defense only shows improvement when Burke takes a direct hand in influencing its direction.
• Second half offense.  The inability to make adjustments at the half kills this team every week.

I actually think Hall's arm strength limitations are being overstated by some.  He has an average arm.  He showed that the ball sails a bit when he tried to drop it in over the Hamilton coverage .. also doesn't have ideal zip on some of the deeper patterns.  That said, his game is about rhythm and timing and that type of quarterback *can* be very successful in this league.   There are positive things to work with there.  You could see the timing with his receivers getting better as the game progressed.  You could see the touch and anticipation on display with that toss to Kohlert in the end zone.   At the end of the day, you don't need a guy with a cannon.  You need a guy who can march the length of the field.  Is Hall that guy?  I don't know.  But he's the best of the bunch we have right now.

[blitzmore]

Nope, should have been 3-4 picks last night.  Even the pass to Edwards near the end was a Lucky Duck that could have easily been picked if Hammy was not already in party mode.  The pass to Poblah took forever to arrive.  Need to zip that pass in.

 

Goltz can run and has arm strength, let him play and get his timing down.    

 

They are going to expose Hall now knowing he can't escape the pocket and has a noodle arm.

Nope...Goltz takes too long getting the ball out and is inaccurate when he does. This goes back awhile.

 

Noodle arm is a ridiculous comment.

[Mr. Perfect]

Hall is not the answer imo.  His arm is weak, his accuracy is poor. 

 

Should have stuck with Goltz, like Timbo said they were going to.  All they did was piss people off and set back another Q.B's development.

 

I really feel sorry for some of these players, they deserve better.

His arm is suspect but accuracy is the least of his concerns. He needs to learn when to put some zip on the ball as he did on a couple crossers, and how to make better reads but that will come with time. Saw MUCH more out of him than we've ever seen out of Goltz. Unsure if there will be something there long term, but he showed enough to warrant at least some consideration.

[road griller]

His arm is suspect but accuracy is the least of his concerns. He needs to learn when to put some zip on the ball as he did on a couple crossers, and how to make better reads but that will come with time. Saw MUCH more out of him than we've ever seen out of Goltz. Unsure if there will be something there long term, but he showed enough to warrant at least some consideration.

  Sure but he started in the NFL and has been around a long time.  So seeing more from him should be automatic.  Should have seen a hell of a lot more than Goltz.  Did we?  Plus Goltz had his second start on a wonky ankle in BC not at home against Hammy..... 

 

That highschool toss to Kito should alarm anyone.  Once Hammy dialed in on the weak arm and lack of scrambling ability we were done. 

 

At least Goltz can use his legs, given a proper OC he will at least be able to form an attack.  Crowton wanted Hall and this is what they come up with?

 

Pretty simple move the pocket with Goltz, roll out one way then the other and make these guys chase him for the first quarter in the heat.  Good safe 6-8 yarders on the run the odd bomb to keep the honest.   By the 3rd it will open the run and pass a lot more.

 

Anyway, we will see who our OC is next week and see who they want or whoever is making the call, does not seem to be up to the HC anymore.

[JuranBoldenRules]

Anything Hall threw over about 5 yards hung out there, very Dinwiddie-esque.  He'll have some 5 INT games.  If we have any shot to win games with someone on our roster today, it's Goltz, even with his faults.