Lawless - Attention O'Shea: Fire Etcheverry

[Mr Dee]

So, the mighty journalist/hockey/football analyst has broken down the year and came to the conclusion that a co-ordinator must be the first one to be let go.

And co-ordinators are prime candidates to be shown the door.

Makes sense.

 

I do wonder why Lawless has not put both co-ordinators up for inspection, just like the Bombers are hopefully doing, and then present cases for each one.

 

Lawless has made some pretty defining statements in his presentation:

 

-Keeping Etcheverry on staff is the wrong move from the tactical and survival perspectives. Keeping Etcheverry will likely result in the negativity associated with the defensive coach sticking to the head coach. - And there is no negativity associated with the OC?

 

-The entire city wants Etcheverry clipped. - There are lots of pockets out there for sure,  but the entire city? He'is right about no one would really question the move.

 

- No, O'Shea will look for every reason to keep Etcheverry. He'll want to believe Etcheverry is part of the path to success - well..yeah. What Coach doesn't?

 

- Etcheverry's defence was terrible and was as big a reason as any for the Blue Bombers plummeting from an early 5-1 record to an unsatisfactory 7-11 finish. Likely the biggest.. They did falter over the rest of the season, but the biggest reason for the plummet? 

Highly debatable.

 

​That statement seems to be the basis for many to ditch Etch, that his defence is always figured out and the yards gained running will ruin even the most stable D.

And people may be right, but he's picked his  "delete" co-ordinator for the year and has make a big production of it.

And whether Etch goes, or not, I won't be run down, either way.

 

But….is it the right co-ordinator?

 

Where's the hullabaloo for the other side of the line?

 

 

[KptKrunch]

I dunno, I think if our offense could have stayed on the field more, maybe our D woudln't have been a problem. Outside of Ottawa,I'm sure we had the most 2 and outs this year. Considering where we were at the end of July, that is a huge drop off. And no, this isn't another attack on Drew Willy - he's not playing now and I said many times I agree he is our future. 

Also, despite how it ended, as mentioned by Mr.P and others, we had, I think a GREAT season. If people said in May "would 7 - 11 be considered a good season" I don't think anyone would complain. 

 

Yes, our defense could have been better. But in reality, should we not give our DC an offseason to work with Walters, McManus, et al for getting other players? Players that can make a difference? 

 

For the offense, MB proved that though it worked early, he clearly couldn't adapt (or was it Willy?) to what defenses started doing to us. It looked better, to me, once Cotton was able to establish a rhythm back there. I just would have liked to have seen a confident Willy back there with him, which really hurts in judging what MB could have done with the double threat of running/passing. 

 

Changes will happen, it does every year for every team. All  know is last year we were 3 -15, (IMO we only were deserving of 1 win though), this year 7 - 11 (and guess who was 7 - 11 last year - Edmonton). 

 

No matter who we bring in, coaching wise, or player wise, next year, I fully expect us to improve. 9 - 9 is the minimum I'm already setting for this team. I wouldn't consider 9 - 9 a successful year, I'm just thinking that's as low as they can go. Last year, at this time, I was thinking at best, we'd be 6 - 12 this year. So believe it or not, for the entire year, I'm happy with where we finished overall. It just could have been so much better. If we go 5 - 1 to start next season, I'd bet anyone here that we'll be better than 7 - 11 at the end of the season.

[Noeller]

I always get the most laughs when Lawless spouts opinion as fact. Highly enjoyable. No mention whatsoever about the offense taking a major nosedive as Will got hurt worse and worse. No mention of the DL falling off with injury as well. Not everything has to be so black and white. There's a lot of room with shades of grey here....

[17to85]

Lawless hit the nail right on the head this time. MB at least had an excuse with all the injuries and declining QB play he got. What was Etch's? Sweet FA.

wild hurt for a couple games, Anderson lost for the season, vega playing injury all year...can you think of a defence that would be successful with as poor a defensive line as the Bombers had this year? 

[rebusrankin]

So does that mean Lawless thinks Marcel should stay?

[iso_55]

 

Lawless hit the nail right on the head this time. MB at least had an excuse with all the injuries and declining QB play he got. What was Etch's? Sweet FA.

wild hurt for a couple games, Anderson lost for the season, vega playing injury all year...can you think of a defence that would be successful with as poor a defensive line as the Bombers had this year? 

 

Even before those guys got hurt we couldn't stop the run. That's the thing for me... Even with our personnel at 100% for the games we had them it made no difference. The other thing to consider is every team has injuries. You can't continually use that as an excuse for under performance. If the defense is sound. If every gap is covered from A-D then it should work. We need the right personnel in place. Every time we needed the defense late in games to seal the win for us, they failed. As the game went on, our run defense couldn't get the job done. They were worn out. I saw us out physicalled, if that is even a word... Pushed back 5 yards everytime. Our O struggled, yes. But there were games when it was up to Etch's defense to get the ball back for the O by stopping the other teams running backs & they never did. For me, the first change that needs to be made is who's running the defense & that is Etcheverry. 

[LeBird]

 

 

 

Etcheverry's defence was terrible and was as big a reason as any for the Blue Bombers plummeting from an early 5-1 record to an unsatisfactory 7-11 finish. Likely the biggest.

 

 

Haha Gary Lawless is a *****. 

 

That aside, do you agree with him or not?  Etch was running the defense and it was not by any stretch a piece of art.

 

It just could be Miller and Walters will make the decision for him.

[iso_55]

 

 

 

 

Etcheverry's defence was terrible and was as big a reason as any for the Blue Bombers plummeting from an early 5-1 record to an unsatisfactory 7-11 finish. Likely the biggest.

 

 

Haha Gary Lawless is a *****. 

 

That aside, do you agree with him or not?  Etch was running the defense and it was not by any stretch a piece of art.

 

It just could be Miller and Walters will make the decision for him.

 

If MOS wants him to stay & those other guys don't then I hope that happens.

[LeBird]

 

In this case, Lawless is absolutely right. Turn up heat on MOS & the Bombers. That's fine with me. Something has to be done.

Yea Lawless seems to have quite a bit of influence when it comes to the Bombers.

 

Give a guy who's job is to write for the masses a pen/keyboard and he becomes someone to be reckoned with.  Like trials conducted in the press.

[Noeller]

Lawless hit the nail right on the head this time. MB at least had an excuse with all the injuries and declining QB play he got. What was Etch's? Sweet FA.

wild hurt for a couple games, Anderson lost for the season, vega playing injury all year...can you think of a defence that would be successful with as poor a defensive line as the Bombers had this year?

Even before those guys got hurt we couldn't stop the run. That's the thing for me... Even with our personnel at 100% for the games we had them it made no difference. The other thing to consider is every team has injuries. You can't continually use that as an excuse for under performance. If the defense is sound. If every gap is covered from A-D then it should work. We need the right personnel in place. Every time we needed the defense late in games to seal the win for us, they failed. As the game went on, our run defense couldn't get the job done. They were worn out. I saw us out physicalled, if that is even a word... Pushed back 5 yards everytime. Our O struggled, yes. But there were games when it was up to Etch's defense to get the ball back for the O by stopping the other teams running backs & they never did. For me, the first change that needs to be made is who's running the defense & that is Etcheverry.

and all those rushing yards led to exactly 1 loss in that Early going. So who cares about rushing yards allowed of it doesn't result in losses? Some of you are just so dead set I your ways and any scheme or design that goes against what you believe HAS to be wrong. Etch wasn't the problem.....

[Mr Dee]

Even before those guys got hurt we couldn't stop the run. That's the thing for me... Even with our personnel at 100% for the games we had them it made no difference. 

 

 

These early season stats disprove what you're saying.

Team - yards rushing

Toronto - 42

Ottawa - 86

Montreal - 102

Edmonton - 192  (96 Reilly)

BC - 100

Hamilton - 47

Sask. - 186 

Toronto - 174we had that short week, Tor had the bye

Montreal 91

 

​It wasn't real until the Sasatchewan games that teams started running on us, and, as has discussed many times, at least two of those games were winnable.

Sask - 160

Sask - 196

[Bigblue204]

 

Lawless hit the nail right on the head this time. MB at least had an excuse with all the injuries and declining QB play he got. What was Etch's? Sweet FA.

wild hurt for a couple games, Anderson lost for the season, vega playing injury all year...can you think of a defence that would be successful with as poor a defensive line as the Bombers had this year? 

 

Don't forget, sears, sherman, washington, kuale, newman, johnson, fraser....all players who missed some time if not the entire season. I think there may be a couple more but I can't remember.

[gbill2004]

Lawless hit the nail right on the head this time. MB at least had an excuse with all the injuries and declining QB play he got. What was Etch's? Sweet FA.

wild hurt for a couple games, Anderson lost for the season, vega playing injury all year...can you think of a defence that would be successful with as poor a defensive line as the Bombers had this year?

Don't forget, sears, sherman, washington, kuale, newman, johnson, fraser....all players who missed some time if not the entire season. I think there may be a couple more but I can't remember.

I think the debate on Etch is was the failure of the D in the second half of the season due to 1) rest of the league figured out his schemes or 2) injuries.

In my opinion it's more a systemic problem with the schemes.

[Bigblue204]

 

 

 

Lawless hit the nail right on the head this time. MB at least had an excuse with all the injuries and declining QB play he got. What was Etch's? Sweet FA.

wild hurt for a couple games, Anderson lost for the season, vega playing injury all year...can you think of a defence that would be successful with as poor a defensive line as the Bombers had this year?

Don't forget, sears, sherman, washington, kuale, newman, johnson, fraser....all players who missed some time if not the entire season. I think there may be a couple more but I can't remember.

I think the debate on Etch is was the failure of the D in the second half of the season due to 1) rest of the league figured out his schemes or 2) injuries.

In my opinion it's more a systemic problem with the schemes.

 

And you know, I agree. He's schemes didn't work a lot of the time and often had me scratching my head. But like I've posted a lot of times before. If the offence could have put up even 10-15 more points in a game. We would have a very different record. How it's the DC's fault for the offences lack of scoring is beyond me.

 

Also, I don't think only one coordinator can take the blame. Both their systems worked against each other. They didn't compliment each other. But if one has to stay. I'd prefer it be etch.

[Fraser]

Etch was better than mb

[17to85]

 

 

 

Lawless hit the nail right on the head this time. MB at least had an excuse with all the injuries and declining QB play he got. What was Etch's? Sweet FA.

wild hurt for a couple games, Anderson lost for the season, vega playing injury all year...can you think of a defence that would be successful with as poor a defensive line as the Bombers had this year?

Don't forget, sears, sherman, washington, kuale, newman, johnson, fraser....all players who missed some time if not the entire season. I think there may be a couple more but I can't remember.

I think the debate on Etch is was the failure of the D in the second half of the season due to 1) rest of the league figured out his schemes or 2) injuries.

In my opinion it's more a systemic problem with the schemes.

 

option 3: offense couldn't stay on the field and the defence predictably gave up more yards as a result. 

[iso_55]

 

 

 

 

Lawless hit the nail right on the head this time. MB at least had an excuse with all the injuries and declining QB play he got. What was Etch's? Sweet FA.

wild hurt for a couple games, Anderson lost for the season, vega playing injury all year...can you think of a defence that would be successful with as poor a defensive line as the Bombers had this year?

Don't forget, sears, sherman, washington, kuale, newman, johnson, fraser....all players who missed some time if not the entire season. I think there may be a couple more but I can't remember.

I think the debate on Etch is was the failure of the D in the second half of the season due to 1) rest of the league figured out his schemes or 2) injuries.

In my opinion it's more a systemic problem with the schemes.

 

option 3: offense couldn't stay on the field and the defence predictably gave up more yards as a result. 

 

Excuses. Like I said earlier, all teams deal with injuries. You can only use that crutch for so long. You think MOS used injuries as an excuse when they lost? I never heard any of that. Just that they have to play better. So, if the players don't get off easy then why should any of the coaches?

[iso_55]

Etch was better than mb

LOL! You don't even sound convinced.

[iso_55]

 

 

 

Lawless hit the nail right on the head this time. MB at least had an excuse with all the injuries and declining QB play he got. What was Etch's? Sweet FA.

wild hurt for a couple games, Anderson lost for the season, vega playing injury all year...can you think of a defence that would be successful with as poor a defensive line as the Bombers had this year?

Even before those guys got hurt we couldn't stop the run. That's the thing for me... Even with our personnel at 100% for the games we had them it made no difference. The other thing to consider is every team has injuries. You can't continually use that as an excuse for under performance. If the defense is sound. If every gap is covered from A-D then it should work. We need the right personnel in place. Every time we needed the defense late in games to seal the win for us, they failed. As the game went on, our run defense couldn't get the job done. They were worn out. I saw us out physicalled, if that is even a word... Pushed back 5 yards everytime. Our O struggled, yes. But there were games when it was up to Etch's defense to get the ball back for the O by stopping the other teams running backs & they never did. For me, the first change that needs to be made is who's running the defense & that is Etcheverry.

and all those rushing yards led to exactly 1 loss in that Early going. So who cares about rushing yards allowed of it doesn't result in losses? Some of you are just so dead set I your ways and any scheme or design that goes against what you believe HAS to be wrong. Etch wasn't the problem.....

 

But it did result in losses. We could never get the ball back or stop the other teams run games later in the season in the late fourth quarter to seal the deal. That can't be ignored. The defense was terrible. 

[Goalie]

The D might have been terrible but the O regressed pretty significantly throughout the entire season.

 

Just look at points scored really, or yards per game, the O wasn't very good.

 

Reality all these ETCH articles and threads could probably be put in to one massive thread because we all know who wants him gone and for the most part, it's the same people who wanted him gone the minute he was hired. Even those who don't want him gone or i suppose, those who might not care one way or the other, it's all been said before 

 

Nothing really changes, different thread but same opinions were said in the 50000000 other "etch needs to go" threads. 

 

Personally, Etch probably should be let go, but IMO, the OC is the bigger problem. 

[Bigblue204]

 

 

 

 

 

Lawless hit the nail right on the head this time. MB at least had an excuse with all the injuries and declining QB play he got. What was Etch's? Sweet FA.

wild hurt for a couple games, Anderson lost for the season, vega playing injury all year...can you think of a defence that would be successful with as poor a defensive line as the Bombers had this year?

Don't forget, sears, sherman, washington, kuale, newman, johnson, fraser....all players who missed some time if not the entire season. I think there may be a couple more but I can't remember.

I think the debate on Etch is was the failure of the D in the second half of the season due to 1) rest of the league figured out his schemes or 2) injuries.

In my opinion it's more a systemic problem with the schemes.

 

option 3: offense couldn't stay on the field and the defence predictably gave up more yards as a result. 

 

Excuses. Like I said earlier, all teams deal with injuries. You can only use that crutch for so long. You think MOS used injuries as an excuse when they lost? I never heard any of that. Just that they have to play better. So, if the players don't get off easy then why should any of the coaches?

 

If you look at the first quote, pigeye is saying the O had an excuse in injuries....while the defence didn't. The following posts after that are simply answers stating, that if the O can use injuries as an excuse and that's ok in your (pigseye) eye. Then why not the D as well?

I don't like using injuries as excuses either. But they certainly play a factor. As for us not being able to stop the run, if we had converted more field goals into touch downs, we would have forced the other teams to throw rather than run. And it wasn't like we didn't have opportunities to do it, how many times did we settle for 3 in the red zone?

[NotoriousBIG]

I hate using an Appeal to Authority to justify my argument, but when the TSN crew (not Rod Black; the guys who actually coached and/or played like Dunigan, Milt, etc). continually point out that the scheme needs to change perhaps there's some legitimacy there. 

 

I'm sure if Etch had the Cadillac of players, all veterans, lining up at every spot his D would work. But this is a young, 1st year team and his SCHEME was not successful in that context. 

[Mark F]

on the other long etch thread the other day, someone did an actual breakdown of a few close games, where it was made obvious that the defence more than did it's job, and offence failed miserably. 

 

you know, some actual facts and numbers.

 

got the ball back repeatedly, and offence went three and out, or int, in several close games.

 

 

guess a few people missed that. or ignored it causes it didn't conform with their beliefs. so they Just keep saying it "etch must go, Etch must go"

 

furthermore, everyone knows that defences get tired if they stay on the field. Our defence was on the field a lot this year. cause the offence was pitiful. hence can't stop run in fourth quarter, for example.

 

Prediction: etch will be back.

[Goalie]

Think Lawless is going after the wrong coordinator.

 

If i had the choice to fire one of them, it would be MB no doubt about it. 

[iso_55]

The D might have been terrible but the O regressed pretty significantly throughout the entire season.

 

Just look at points scored really, or yards per game, the O wasn't very good.

 

Reality all these ETCH articles and threads could probably be put in to one massive thread because we all know who wants him gone and for the most part, it's the same people who wanted him gone the minute he was hired. Even those who don't want him gone or i suppose, those who might not care one way or the other, it's all been said before 

 

Nothing really changes, different thread but same opinions were said in the 50000000 other "etch needs to go" threads. 

 

Personally, Etch probably should be let go, but IMO, the OC is the bigger problem. 

If etch goes then I'd happily change our other 2 coordinators too as they didn't do a great job either. Keeping MB is the lesser of the 2 evils I think but that's me.