Demski too good to pass up?

[gbill2004]

@ArashMadani: Bisons WR Nic Demski likely a 2015 1st round pick. A #CFL team exec: "not many kids have ever had his skill set. He's the complete package."

[kelownabomberfan]

Stop dealing in absolutes.

[BigBlue]

What is the most likely position for a Canadian non-import to make the NFL? There is an individual talent here or there but the only consistent position Canadians are recruited at is offensive line. Good lineman are rare both in Canada and the good old USA.

Any offensive linemen taken in the top two or three picks is going to attract high NFL interest. I believe drafting an offensive lineman with the second overall pick is just too big a gamble. I don't care if the draftee in question says he is not interested in the NFL, now or later; I wouldn't believe him.

I'm not sure I'm in love with Demski either. He did not dominate in the Bison-Dino Hardy Cup on Saturday.

I feel very strong that our GM will be able to pick good lineman with our 11th pick and in the middle rounds. As long as we don't pick a guard or tackle with our number two, I will be happy. We just cannot afford to lose our top pick to the NFL, now or down the road.

[Rich]

What is the most likely position for a Canadian non-import to make the NFL? There is an individual talent here or there but the only consistent position Canadians are recruited at is offensive line. Good lineman are rare both in Canada and the good old USA.

Any offensive linemen taken in the top two or three picks is going to attract high NFL interest. I believe drafting an offensive lineman with the second overall pick is just too big a gamble. I don't care if the draftee in question says he is not interested in the NFL, now or later; I wouldn't believe him.

I'm not sure I'm in love with Demski either. He did not dominate in the Bison-Dino Hardy Cup on Saturday.

I feel very strong that our GM will be able to pick good lineman with our 11th pick and in the middle rounds. As long as we don't pick a guard or tackle with our number two, I will be happy. We just cannot afford to lose our top pick to the NFL, now or down the road.

 

The good news is that the CFL draft now happens after the NFL draft, so teams have a better idea of who will have interest down south.

 

Of course they can still be signed as Free Agents after the fact, but this change was a good one for giving teams drafting the higher draft picks a better idea of who might actually play for them.

[Mike]

What is the most likely position for a Canadian non-import to make the NFL? There is an individual talent here or there but the only consistent position Canadians are recruited at is offensive line. Good lineman are rare both in Canada and the good old USA.

Any offensive linemen taken in the top two or three picks is going to attract high NFL interest. I believe drafting an offensive lineman with the second overall pick is just too big a gamble. I don't care if the draftee in question says he is not interested in the NFL, now or later; I wouldn't believe him.

I'm not sure I'm in love with Demski either. He did not dominate in the Bison-Dino Hardy Cup on Saturday.

I feel very strong that our GM will be able to pick good lineman with our 11th pick and in the middle rounds. As long as we don't pick a guard or tackle with our number two, I will be happy. We just cannot afford to lose our top pick to the NFL, now or down the road.

 

Based on what? There's literally no trend to support this statement.

[BigBlue]

What is the most likely position for a Canadian non-import to make the NFL? There is an individual talent here or there but the only consistent position Canadians are recruited at is offensive line. Good lineman are rare both in Canada and the good old USA.

Any offensive linemen taken in the top two or three picks is going to attract high NFL interest. I believe drafting an offensive lineman with the second overall pick is just too big a gamble. I don't care if the draftee in question says he is not interested in the NFL, now or later; I wouldn't believe him.

I'm not sure I'm in love with Demski either. He did not dominate in the Bison-Dino Hardy Cup on Saturday.

I feel very strong that our GM will be able to pick good lineman with our 11th pick and in the middle rounds. As long as we don't pick a guard or tackle with our number two, I will be happy. We just cannot afford to lose our top pick to the NFL, now or down the road.

 

Based on what? There's literally no trend to support this statement.

JJust my own observation

[Mr. Perfect]

 

 

 

 

 

The damn point is we haven't been drafting by position.  We've been drafting the best available players.  

 

Pencer, Etienne...yep, we've been drafting the best available players for a long time around these parts....

 

Sadly, those are the guys Mack thought were the best available players.

 

So you're being critical of Walters based on one draft then? Because if that's the case your argument is pretty weak, as usual, nevermind that it's incorrect since we drafted an o-lineman with our first pick in this past draft. What's your angle for your argument exactly?

 

Critical of Walters?  WTF?  How the heck did you get that from what I've typed?

 

Walters didn't go with the best available player or even the best available O lineman.  He went with the best available center who was ranked 9th because that's our greatest need.  I completely agree with Walters decision.  Walters also said he'd draft an O lineman high and another one late in the draft.  I agree with that too.

 

Not sure what's so difficult for you to understand sport. You said we haven't been drafting by position, but by best player available (Which I have underlined and bolded for clairity purposes). My point was that we haven't been drafting the best players available (based on the consensus at the time of said drafts) as we selected Etienne and Pencer with some of our first round picks prior to 2014. You can include the Andy Mulumba pick in there as well. In the final rankings in each year Mulumba was ranked fifth, but picked second, Pencer who wasn't even in the final rankings in 2012, nor was he in the January ranking either, but he was picked third, and Jade Etienne who wasn't in the final rankings either, but was picked fourth. Again, your point as quoted was "we've been drafting the best available around these parts" which as I've indicated in my comments above, is completely incorrect on your part based on where they were ranked and when they were selected.

 

You countered by saying those are players Mack thought were the best available. Perhaps, but we'll never know his logic into those selections - but it still goes against your main point because based on the rankings, and what was being said around the league at the time of those picks, the last things those players were was the best player available.

 

Furthermore, you completely contradicted your comment saying "we've been drafting the best available around these parts" in your rebuttal to my post. You said we drafted Goossen who was ranked ninth - Congrats by the way, that's the only correct statement in either post you made that I've quoted. What you also said in that same post was that "He went with the best available centre...".

 

Now forgive me if I'm wrong (and I'm not, so I'll save you the time) but last time I checked, I'm pretty sure centre is one of the 12 positions on the offensive side of the ball. You said in your first quoted statement that we've been drafting by BPA, and not by need at a position, yet you bring up 2014 and say we drafted based on our need at centre. Do you see the contradiction now in your statements since I've essentially spelled it out for you?

 

With those out of the way, I brought up Walters because he's the only GM we've had draft in recent years aside from Mack. I'm not including Kelly/Murphy as that's too far back now considering when they were in charge.

 

 

I'll restate my comment in my initial post - Given as we've very clearly not been drafting the BPA as I've indicated (yet you said we've been doing), and that we have in fact drafted by need at a position under Walters (which you said that we haven't, but later contradicted yourself in your rebuttal), what angle exactly are you trying to make in your argument?

[Mike]

 

 

What is the most likely position for a Canadian non-import to make the NFL? There is an individual talent here or there but the only consistent position Canadians are recruited at is offensive line. Good lineman are rare both in Canada and the good old USA.

Any offensive linemen taken in the top two or three picks is going to attract high NFL interest. I believe drafting an offensive lineman with the second overall pick is just too big a gamble. I don't care if the draftee in question says he is not interested in the NFL, now or later; I wouldn't believe him.

I'm not sure I'm in love with Demski either. He did not dominate in the Bison-Dino Hardy Cup on Saturday.

I feel very strong that our GM will be able to pick good lineman with our 11th pick and in the middle rounds. As long as we don't pick a guard or tackle with our number two, I will be happy. We just cannot afford to lose our top pick to the NFL, now or down the road.

 

Based on what? There's literally no trend to support this statement.

 

JJust my own observation

 

 

But it's ... not an accurate observation.

 

Since 2004, 12 OL have gone in the top 3 picks of the CFL Draft.

 

ONE of them has signed an NFL contract after being drafted. Dmitri Tsoumpas. And he came back.

[Jpan85]

There has not been one OL drafted in first 3 picks in the last five years go to NFL. Heck there is only 2-3 guys drafted in the top three that went to NFL.

[TBURGESS]

 

 

 

 

 

 

The damn point is we haven't been drafting by position.  We've been drafting the best available players.  

 

Pencer, Etienne...yep, we've been drafting the best available players for a long time around these parts....

 

Sadly, those are the guys Mack thought were the best available players.

 

So you're being critical of Walters based on one draft then? Because if that's the case your argument is pretty weak, as usual, nevermind that it's incorrect since we drafted an o-lineman with our first pick in this past draft. What's your angle for your argument exactly?

 

Critical of Walters?  WTF?  How the heck did you get that from what I've typed?

 

Walters didn't go with the best available player or even the best available O lineman.  He went with the best available center who was ranked 9th because that's our greatest need.  I completely agree with Walters decision.  Walters also said he'd draft an O lineman high and another one late in the draft.  I agree with that too.

 

Not sure what's so difficult for you to understand sport. You said we haven't been drafting by position, but by best player available (Which I have underlined and bolded for clairity purposes). My point was that we haven't been drafting the best players available (based on the consensus at the time of said drafts) as we selected Etienne and Pencer with some of our first round picks prior to 2014. You can include the Andy Mulumba pick in there as well. In the final rankings in each year Mulumba was ranked fifth, but picked second, Pencer who wasn't even in the final rankings in 2012, nor was he in the January ranking either, but he was picked third, and Jade Etienne who wasn't in the final rankings either, but was picked fourth. Again, your point as quoted was "we've been drafting the best available around these parts" which as I've indicated in my comments above, is completely incorrect on your part based on where they were ranked and when they were selected.

 

You countered by saying those are players Mack thought were the best available. Perhaps, but we'll never know his logic into those selections - but it still goes against your main point because based on the rankings, and what was being said around the league at the time of those picks, the last things those players were was the best player available.

 

Furthermore, you completely contradicted your comment saying "we've been drafting the best available around these parts" in your rebuttal to my post. You said we drafted Goossen who was ranked ninth - Congrats by the way, that's the only correct statement in either post you made that I've quoted. What you also said in that same post was that "He went with the best available centre...".

 

Now forgive me if I'm wrong (and I'm not, so I'll save you the time) but last time I checked, I'm pretty sure centre is one of the 12 positions on the offensive side of the ball. You said in your first quoted statement that we've been drafting by BPA, and not by need at a position, yet you bring up 2014 and say we drafted based on our need at centre. Do you see the contradiction now in your statements since I've essentially spelled it out for you?

 

With those out of the way, I brought up Walters because he's the only GM we've had draft in recent years aside from Mack. I'm not including Kelly/Murphy as that's too far back now considering when they were in charge.

 

 

I'll restate my comment in my initial post - Given as we've very clearly not been drafting the BPA as I've indicated (yet you said we've been doing), and that we have in fact drafted by need at a position under Walters (which you said that we haven't, but later contradicted yourself in your rebuttal), what angle exactly are you trying to make in your argument?

 

 

Listen sport.  You said I was being critical of Walters, which is completely untrue.  I never typed a word about Walters before you made your incorrect and ignorant statement. 

 

Mack drafted who he thought was best no matter what anyone else thought.  His BPA's.  Most of them turned out to be huge mistakes, but that's because Mack wasn't the smartest guy in the room like he thought he was.  We didn't draft for need in any of the Mack drafts.  It would have been hugely better for us to pick an O lineman at the top and one later on in every draft.  By now, we'd have a good to great O line and could change to drafting the BPA.  It would have been better to pick the consensus next best player too, but that's not what we did.  We drafted the guys Mack thought were best.  Period.  Full stop.  Kelly did the same thing.  Chose the BPA as he saw it and it didn't work out.

 

Walters drafted for need last year.  It was the first time we've done that in years and about bloody time.  I hope he does it again this year and again and again until we have an O line we can count on.  This is not a flip flop.  I'm simply agreeing with what Walters is doing and it's not drafting the BPA.

 

I'll restate the obvious.  We've been drafting the BPA as our GM 's see it for years.  It gave us Muamba and pretty much nothing else.  Walters and I agree that drafting for need is the better way to go.  We'll see how it works out over the next few years.

[Atomic]

Top 3 is an arbitrary cut off. Make it top 4 and you start to see the names. David Foucault, Austin Pasztor, Danny Watkins...

[Goalie]

We are in somewhat of a unique position as a team, where we pretty much need national help across the board, yes the biggest need is obviously oline but it's not our only need, we could use a receiver, watson ain't getting any younger or healthier, we could use some dline, we definitely need oline, we all know that so really what it comes down too, is... a couple things.

 

1. Free Agency - let's just pretend we sign a ben heenan or tyler holmes, do we still need that oline help? Even one of them

 

2. Who has NFL aspirations, that's an important factor, That Danny Groulx seems like he might be a nice pick if there at 2, Tackle from Laval but.. Laval seems to produce guys who want to try the NFL, is it worth it to draft him at 2 only to find out that he wants to give the NFL  a try? 

 

3. It's a deep draft OLINE wise, there are about what? 10 OLINE guys there ranked in the top 15 or 20, Means we could probably get one at 11 also if we wanted too.

 

Unique position to be in, could grab Demski at 2 and get an oline at 11 who may end up being better than the guy at 2. It's really hard to say. 

[Jpan85]

Draft Groulx then see if you could move up to around 6-7 and draft Addison Richards or hope he falls.

[mbrg]

You countered by saying those are players Mack thought were the best available. Perhaps, but we'll never know his logic into those selections

 

His logic in both Etienne and Poblah was that he wanted to shift our ratio usage to a second receiver**.

 

Poblah was highly regarded and couldn't be considered an "off the board" pick.  Mack's logic in selecting him in the supplemental draft was fairly sound.  We would have had the 7th overall pick in the 2012 draft.  Not that I consider Duane Forde the be-all end-all of the draft, but he knows more than me - the question of whether or not Poblah would have been taken in the top 7 of the 2012 draft was asked of him, and he said he would be off the board by then.  And when you consider that drafting Poblah allowed us to use him in 2011, rather than waiting a year to add our 2012 pick to our roster, one could argue that the use of a supplemental pick on Poblah was a savvy move by Mack.

 

Etienne has been discussed to death.  Drafted on highly extrapolated potential - did not live up to it.

 

His logic in Pencer was that he wanted a "ratio-breaker".  His intention was Westerman, but having missed on that he rolled the dice on a guy he thought they could groom into a tackle.  He felt taking the best player available was not worth what they gave up to get that pick.  Essentially he shot for the moon.

 

I'm not including Kelly/Murphy as that's too far back now considering when they were in charge.

 

Summary - 4 wasted picks.  Very few positive things will ever be said about 2009.

 

My recollection is none ever played a regular season down for the Bombers, but I'm not claiming that as fact.  Quinney may have played some special teams downs for Toronto.  I don't know because I don't care who plays special teams for Toronto.

 

 

I'll restate the obvious.  We've been drafting the BPA as our GM 's see it for years.

 

This is simply not true.  Saying it continually does not make it true.  It makes it seem like you don't understand what BPA means.

 

**Assuming there will be little argument in ignoring Hargreaves as a receiver.

[Mark F]

I say, draft Demski, and make him play oline!

 

everyone happy then!

[mbrg]

Top 3 is an arbitrary cut off. Make it top 4 and you start to see the names. David Foucault, Austin Pasztor, Danny Watkins...

 

The NFL will find talented players and ****** (edit: okay then autocensor - grab) them up.  Toronto finally got Cory Greenwood this year after drafting him in 2010.  A guy like Orlando Franklin will probably never wear a CFL uniform unless one is given to him for Christmas.  This isn't because he's an Olineman, it's because he's too good to ignore.  The CFL is a minor league to the NFL, they will take the best players regardless of position.  Like Vaughn Martin.

 

You don't ignore Olinemen in the top of the draft just because they're Olinemen.  You simply do your best to assess their talent, including if they might be too good for the CFL.  The Altona Maroons probably could have put a claim on Wayne Gretzky's rights in the (whateverleaguetheyplayin) Hockey League if they wanted to.  It just is a waste of a move that could be put to better use.

[Mark F]

Demski has a nice highlight video, very

 

well done, lot of views.

 

 

anyone know how fast he is? 

 

There's no denying, it's a great idea to have local kids playing for the bombers, if it makes sense football wise.

[kelownabomberfan]

where was the guy sitting who shot some of these plays? On the moon?

[Mark F]

it's true that some of the shots are somewhat small….. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

 

 

Demski slowly venturing into overrated territory around here.

Same with Goodrich

 

It's Because they're from Winnipeg 

 

 

They're both very good.

 

But realistically, this talk of Demski going #1 is premature. At least until the combine.

 

 

#1, probably not.  But I'd love to pick him and find ways to get him the ball.  He's going to be lethal.  I'd probably lean more towards using him as an Andrew Harris type tailback then as a receiver in the CFL.  Never quite understood why the Bisons did not use him like that.  Coombs was a volume tailback, needed lots of carries and busted the odd big run, but I guess they decided to go all-in on the conversion to receiver and spread their talent around a bit with Lafrance coming through at the same time too.

[Jpan85]

Like to see how he bounces back this week after catching one ball last week.

[bb1]

Like to see how he bounces back this week after catching one ball last week.

Can't find the stats from that game but pretty sure he had more than 1 catch. They were double and triple covering him from what I could see and I remember him making a big catch to extend a drive.

[Jesse]

 

Like to see how he bounces back this week after catching one ball last week.

Can't find the stats from that game but pretty sure he had more than 1 catch. They were double and triple covering him from what I could see and I remember him making a big catch to extend a drive.

 

 

That must've been the one. Although he also had a run for 19 yards, and I agree, Calgary was trying to take him out of the game. 

 

http://english.cis-sic.ca/championships/fball/2014/postseason-boxscores/20141115_jdh7.xml

[rebusrankin]

If you draft an OL early, Jake Harty may be there at 20.

[Mike]

Honestly, if I'm Walters, I'm not targeting any receiver other than Demski early (in the top 20)

 

We'll have Goodrich signed eventually. Depending on what happens, that leaves us with Kohlert, JFG, Watson and Goodrich as primary options, as well as Carter. Could also look to free agency to fill a sixth spot. I'm not burning a top 20 pick on another prototypical receiver, the only reason I'd go after Demski is because of how multi-dimensional he is. A guy like that would be Bellefeuille's dream.

 

It doesn't have to be the first pick, but one of our 3 in the top 20 has to go to an OL in my opinion. Seems like Walters subscribes to that theory as well, based on interviews. I'd like to see one on a defensive lineman too.

 

If I had to make an educated guess at this point, I envision the top 5 picks being (in no particular order) Chung, Waud, Demski, Groulx and either Varga or Mateas. Depending on who gains eligibility going forward, that could obviously change. I also think Chris Ackie has a chance to sneak into the first round similar to Pruneau last year, he'll show very well in one on ones. If Lemar Durant gains eligibility, I wouldn't be surprised to see him go first overall. Few other guys out there who could make noise at the top of the board if they apply for national status as well. I don't see Boyko being an option inside the first, the NFL Draft will see to that.

 

At the 11th pick, I'd target a falling OL (Ruby or Mateas?) or even a guy like Brandon Tennant. Tennant is interesting to me, but I could see his stock fall if executives don't like his answer to the inevitable questions about why he lost his temper and broke his toe kicking a garbage can after being tossed from a team practice. Awful move to pull in a draft year.  3 games played is a small body of work for your draft year.

 

Very exciting draft this year.