Michael Sam Possibly Playing for Als Next Season

[Rich]

To be fair, even if 10% of the population is gay -- which I would argue is far closer to reality than 3-5%, as so many men (and women) that are gay force themselves to live and "report" as straight -- I do think 4 per football squad would be exaggerated, especially at the pro level.

 

At least not til after another generation or two of societal tolerance. 

 

But percentage of gays in something less stigmatized like swimming or track or tennis? Sure, 10%.

 

Percentage in something like figure skating? Haha likely a bit higher.  

 

Even if they report themselves as straight, they are still gay....

 

The question is whether or not the same percentage would be applied to professional sports, and why wouldn’t it be?

 

You could argue that it is a small sample size compared to the general population and the stats would be skewed somewhat, but by that rationale, the percentage could just as easily be larger as it would be smaller. 

 

Seems people want to believe that the percentage would be smaller because professional athletes should be more “manly”. 

[WBBFanWest]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 they did a study a while back and found that virtually 100% of the people who play pro sports are human beings, which is exactly the same proportion of human beings found in the general population.  So my question would be, what makes you think that pro sports would be any different?

You're adorable. Yes, everybody is a human being.

 

Is every group of people represented in pro sports equally to their % of the general population?

 

You didn 't answer the question.  Why do you think that pro sports people would be different than the general population?  I'm curious.

 

 

Because they are different from the general population in every other way.

 

Really, "every other way"? That's a rather bold statement to make.  How so?  Remember, we're not talking about behavioral stuff here, we're talking biological/developmental stuff.  So how are they different?

 

 

How are pro athletes different from the average joe?  I'll let you figure that one out on your own.  It's not hard, I'm sure you'll get it.

 

I didn't think you had a logical answer and it appears I was right.  Let me explain something to you, the speed at which you run or the height that you can jump has NOTHING whatsoever to do with sexual orientation.  If you have any research to the contrary, I'd love to read it.

[Atomic]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 they did a study a while back and found that virtually 100% of the people who play pro sports are human beings, which is exactly the same proportion of human beings found in the general population.  So my question would be, what makes you think that pro sports would be any different?

You're adorable. Yes, everybody is a human being.

 

Is every group of people represented in pro sports equally to their % of the general population?

 

You didn 't answer the question.  Why do you think that pro sports people would be different than the general population?  I'm curious.

 

 

Because they are different from the general population in every other way.

 

Really, "every other way"? That's a rather bold statement to make.  How so?  Remember, we're not talking about behavioral stuff here, we're talking biological/developmental stuff.  So how are they different?

 

 

How are pro athletes different from the average joe?  I'll let you figure that one out on your own.  It's not hard, I'm sure you'll get it.

 

I didn't think you had a logical answer and it appears I was right.  Let me explain something to you, the speed at which you run or the height that you can jump has NOTHING whatsoever to do with sexual orientation.  If you have any research to the contrary, I'd love to read it.

 

 

Acting like any statistic that applies to the general population also applies equally to any specific group isn't just naïve, it's downright stupid.  Take any class in demographics or statistics.  Come on.

[WBBFanWest]

 

To be fair, even if 10% of the population is gay -- which I would argue is far closer to reality than 3-5%, as so many men (and women) that are gay force themselves to live and "report" as straight -- I do think 4 per football squad would be exaggerated, especially at the pro level.

 

At least not til after another generation or two of societal tolerance. 

 

But percentage of gays in something less stigmatized like swimming or track or tennis? Sure, 10%.

 

Percentage in something like figure skating? Haha likely a bit higher.  

 

Even if they report themselves as straight, they are still gay....

 

The question is whether or not the same percentage would be applied to professional sports, and why wouldn’t it be?

 

You could argue that it is a small sample size compared to the general population and the stats would be skewed somewhat, but by that rationale, the percentage could just as easily be larger as it would be smaller. 

 

Seems people want to believe that the percentage would be smaller because professional athletes should be more “manly”. 

 

Exactly right.  Well said.

[Blueandgold]

The last few posts in this thread is why Michael Sam discussion irks me. I wish we could just speak about his abilities on the football field without his sexual orientation being brought into the discussion. 

[NotoriousBIG]

 

To be fair, even if 10% of the population is gay -- which I would argue is far closer to reality than 3-5%, as so many men (and women) that are gay force themselves to live and "report" as straight -- I do think 4 per football squad would be exaggerated, especially at the pro level.

 

At least not til after another generation or two of societal tolerance. 

 

But percentage of gays in something less stigmatized like swimming or track or tennis? Sure, 10%.

 

Percentage in something like figure skating? Haha likely a bit higher.  

 

Even if they report themselves as straight, they are still gay....

 

The question is whether or not the same percentage would be applied to professional sports, and why wouldn’t it be?

 

You could argue that it is a small sample size compared to the general population and the stats would be skewed somewhat, but by that rationale, the percentage could just as easily be larger as it would be smaller. 

 

Seems people want to believe that the percentage would be smaller because professional athletes should be more “manly”. 

 

 

Its more like, professional team sports -- especially football, hockey, baseball, etc -- are life long pursuits. 

 

You start when you can basically walk -- those that make it to the bigs are those whose talent matches their ability to endure 20 years of training, 20 years of locker rooms, 20 years of not so subtle homophobia. 

 

Its only logical that many gays -- especially until the last 10 years or so -- would gravitate towards non-team endeavours where their sex life would never come up. 

 

Its why many gay men went into diving, rowing, fencing, even martial arts. 

[sweep the leg]

The last few posts in this thread is why Michael Sam discussion irks me. I wish we could just speak about his abilities on the football field without his sexual orientation being brought into the discussion. 

How much more was there to say? Would there have been a thread about an NFL training camp cut neg listed by a different team if he wasn't gay?

[WBBFanWest]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 they did a study a while back and found that virtually 100% of the people who play pro sports are human beings, which is exactly the same proportion of human beings found in the general population.  So my question would be, what makes you think that pro sports would be any different?

You're adorable. Yes, everybody is a human being.

 

Is every group of people represented in pro sports equally to their % of the general population?

 

You didn 't answer the question.  Why do you think that pro sports people would be different than the general population?  I'm curious.

 

 

Because they are different from the general population in every other way.

 

Really, "every other way"? That's a rather bold statement to make.  How so?  Remember, we're not talking about behavioral stuff here, we're talking biological/developmental stuff.  So how are they different?

 

 

How are pro athletes different from the average joe?  I'll let you figure that one out on your own.  It's not hard, I'm sure you'll get it.

 

I didn't think you had a logical answer and it appears I was right.  Let me explain something to you, the speed at which you run or the height that you can jump has NOTHING whatsoever to do with sexual orientation.  If you have any research to the contrary, I'd love to read it.

 

 

Acting like any statistic that applies to the general population also applies equally to any specific group isn't just naïve, it's downright stupid.  Take any class in demographics or statistics.  Come on.

 

You still can't identify how or why a group of pro athletes would have fewer gay members than the general population, other than to suggest that somehow their demographics are "different".  You are correct that not every statistic applies equally to every specific group.  But normally, that can be explained.  I'm waiting for that explanation and no one can supply it.  There might be a reason for that. 

[Atomic]

The last few posts in this thread is why Michael Sam discussion irks me. I wish we could just speak about his abilities on the football field without his sexual orientation being brought into the discussion. 

 

And yet your comment is about the discussion around his orientation and not his football abilities.

[Rich]

 

 

To be fair, even if 10% of the population is gay -- which I would argue is far closer to reality than 3-5%, as so many men (and women) that are gay force themselves to live and "report" as straight -- I do think 4 per football squad would be exaggerated, especially at the pro level.

 

At least not til after another generation or two of societal tolerance. 

 

But percentage of gays in something less stigmatized like swimming or track or tennis? Sure, 10%.

 

Percentage in something like figure skating? Haha likely a bit higher.  

 

Even if they report themselves as straight, they are still gay....

 

The question is whether or not the same percentage would be applied to professional sports, and why wouldn’t it be?

 

You could argue that it is a small sample size compared to the general population and the stats would be skewed somewhat, but by that rationale, the percentage could just as easily be larger as it would be smaller. 

 

Seems people want to believe that the percentage would be smaller because professional athletes should be more “manly”. 

 

 

Its more like, professional team sports -- especially football, hockey, baseball, etc -- are life long pursuits. 

 

You start when you can basically walk -- those that make it to the bigs are those whose talent matches their ability to endure 20 years of training, 20 years of locker rooms, 20 years of not so subtle homophobia. 

 

Its only logical that many gays -- especially until the last 10 years or so -- would gravitate towards non-team endeavours where their sex life would never come up. 

 

Its why many gay men went into diving, rowing, fencing, even martial arts. 

 

 

This I can accept as a plausible explanation.

 

It is also just a theory.  We will never really know what the true numbers are.

[Brandon]

I lols at the ten % comment.

[Atomic]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 they did a study a while back and found that virtually 100% of the people who play pro sports are human beings, which is exactly the same proportion of human beings found in the general population.  So my question would be, what makes you think that pro sports would be any different?

You're adorable. Yes, everybody is a human being.

 

Is every group of people represented in pro sports equally to their % of the general population?

 

You didn 't answer the question.  Why do you think that pro sports people would be different than the general population?  I'm curious.

 

 

Because they are different from the general population in every other way.

 

Really, "every other way"? That's a rather bold statement to make.  How so?  Remember, we're not talking about behavioral stuff here, we're talking biological/developmental stuff.  So how are they different?

 

 

How are pro athletes different from the average joe?  I'll let you figure that one out on your own.  It's not hard, I'm sure you'll get it.

 

I didn't think you had a logical answer and it appears I was right.  Let me explain something to you, the speed at which you run or the height that you can jump has NOTHING whatsoever to do with sexual orientation.  If you have any research to the contrary, I'd love to read it.

 

 

Acting like any statistic that applies to the general population also applies equally to any specific group isn't just naïve, it's downright stupid.  Take any class in demographics or statistics.  Come on.

 

You still can't identify how or why a group of pro athletes would have fewer gay members than the general population, other than to suggest that somehow their demographics are "different".  You are correct that not every statistic applies equally to every specific group.  But normally, that can be explained.  I'm waiting for that explanation and no one can supply it.  There might be a reason for that. 

 

 

There's a great reason.  Because there has never been any study on it because A) You have to rely on people being honest about their sexual orientation, and B ) Nobody is funding a study so politically incorrect as one that says gay people aren't as good athletes as other people, or however you want to spin it.

 

Lack of evidence doesn't mean you're right.  But it does mean you jump to conclusions.

[NotoriousBIG]

I lols at the ten % comment.

 

You're right it could be higher. 

[MOBomberFan]

 

 

To be fair, even if 10% of the population is gay -- which I would argue is far closer to reality than 3-5%, as so many men (and women) that are gay force themselves to live and "report" as straight -- I do think 4 per football squad would be exaggerated, especially at the pro level.

 

At least not til after another generation or two of societal tolerance. 

 

But percentage of gays in something less stigmatized like swimming or track or tennis? Sure, 10%.

 

Percentage in something like figure skating? Haha likely a bit higher.  

 

Even if they report themselves as straight, they are still gay....

 

The question is whether or not the same percentage would be applied to professional sports, and why wouldn’t it be?

 

You could argue that it is a small sample size compared to the general population and the stats would be skewed somewhat, but by that rationale, the percentage could just as easily be larger as it would be smaller. 

 

Seems people want to believe that the percentage would be smaller because professional athletes should be more “manly”. 

 

 

Its more like, professional team sports -- especially football, hockey, baseball, etc -- are life long pursuits. 

 

You start when you can basically walk -- those that make it to the bigs are those whose talent matches their ability to endure 20 years of training, 20 years of locker rooms, 20 years of not so subtle homophobia. 

 

Its only logical that many gays -- especially until the last 10 years or so -- would gravitate towards non-team endeavours where their sex life would never come up. 

 

Its why many gay men went into diving, rowing, fencing, even martial arts. 

 

All sorts of this. It's not that the individual couldn't compete because of his or her orientation, it's because the environment is (woefully) hostile towards homosexuals, so much so to the point that many would wash out before making it to the pro ranks.

[WBBFanWest]

 

 

To be fair, even if 10% of the population is gay -- which I would argue is far closer to reality than 3-5%, as so many men (and women) that are gay force themselves to live and "report" as straight -- I do think 4 per football squad would be exaggerated, especially at the pro level.

 

At least not til after another generation or two of societal tolerance. 

 

But percentage of gays in something less stigmatized like swimming or track or tennis? Sure, 10%.

 

Percentage in something like figure skating? Haha likely a bit higher.  

 

Even if they report themselves as straight, they are still gay....

 

The question is whether or not the same percentage would be applied to professional sports, and why wouldn’t it be?

 

You could argue that it is a small sample size compared to the general population and the stats would be skewed somewhat, but by that rationale, the percentage could just as easily be larger as it would be smaller. 

 

Seems people want to believe that the percentage would be smaller because professional athletes should be more “manly”. 

 

 

Its more like, professional team sports -- especially football, hockey, baseball, etc -- are life long pursuits. 

 

You start when you can basically walk -- those that make it to the bigs are those whose talent matches their ability to endure 20 years of training, 20 years of locker rooms, 20 years of not so subtle homophobia. 

 

Its only logical that many gays -- especially until the last 10 years or so -- would gravitate towards non-team endeavours where their sex life would never come up. 

 

Its why many gay men went into diving, rowing, fencing, even martial arts. 

 

[mbrg]

 

The last few posts in this thread is why Michael Sam discussion irks me. I wish we could just speak about his abilities on the football field without his sexual orientation being brought into the discussion. 

 

And yet your comment is about the discussion around his orientation and not his football abilities.

 

[mbrg]

 

To be fair, even if 10% of the population is gay -- which I would argue is far closer to reality than 3-5%, as so many men (and women) that are gay force themselves to live and "report" as straight -- I do think 4 per football squad would be exaggerated, especially at the pro level.

 

At least not til after another generation or two of societal tolerance. 

 

But percentage of gays in something less stigmatized like swimming or track or tennis? Sure, 10%.

 

Percentage in something like figure skating? Haha likely a bit higher.  

 

Even if they report themselves as straight, they are still gay....

 

The question is whether or not the same percentage would be applied to professional sports, and why wouldn’t it be?

 

You could argue that it is a small sample size compared to the general population and the stats would be skewed somewhat, but by that rationale, the percentage could just as easily be larger as it would be smaller. 

 

Seems people want to believe that the percentage would be smaller because professional athletes should be more “manly”. 

 

 

Yes and no.  The idea that professional athletes are more manly is the neanderthal view that some still cling to when refusing to believe that the percentage won't be as high in sports as in the general population, but that doesn't change the possibility that those percentages do not correspond.

 

The percentage of latinos in the United States is relatively high in the general population, but I don't see any corresponding percentage in any of the 4 major sports.  Baseball has a high percentage of latinos playing, but the percentage of them who are from the US is much lower.

 

Typically one would expect that over a few generations that the percentages in specific demographics will catch up to the general population.  Latinos grew up with soccer and baseball, so their interest level in football would not be immediate, but over 5 generations the interest level would rise.

 

The comparison between latinos and homosexuals is a lousy one, but it makes exploring demographics easier than arguing over "10%", which shouldn't even be the point.

 

Does the percentage of homosexual football players represent the same percentage as the general population?  There's really no way of knowing as that would require it's own set of surveys.

 

I allow for the possibility that those numbers do not align, not because gay men aren't manly enough, but because the percentage of their population that is interested in football may not correspond to the percentage in the general population.  Once again, there is really no way of knowing without extensive surveys.

[basslicker]

Too bad, as long as he plays, it will always be brought up.  To say it's not an issue is delusional.

Call me a bigot, but being gay is still abnormal.

[basslicker]

And most players probably DO have an issue with it.  We've just been brainwashed to fall inline and say we agree with their lifestyle choice.   EX) Chris Culliver.  Only player with the balls to speak his mind.

[WBBFanWest]

Basslicker, if you find homosexuality to be "abnormal" then the solution is simple: don't have gay sex.  There, now you need never be troubled again.  

[NotoriousBIG]

And most players probably DO have an issue with it.  We've just been brainwashed to fall inline and say we agree with their lifestyle choice.   EX) Chris Culliver.  Only player with the balls to speak his mind.

 

I agree, most players probably DO have a problem with it. 

 

Doesn't make it right though.

 

Fortunately, society is changing very quickly. This will be a non-issue in 20 years. 

[WBBFanWest]

 

And most players probably DO have an issue with it.  We've just been brainwashed to fall inline and say we agree with their lifestyle choice.   EX) Chris Culliver.  Only player with the balls to speak his mind.

 

I agree, most players probably DO have a problem with it. 

 

Doesn't make it right though.

 

Fortunately, society is changing very quickly. This will be a non-issue in 20 years. 

 

You are exactly right.  At one time players had a problem with Jackie Robinson.  Anyone care to defend them?  And if Sam does end up in Montreal, it's will be more than a little ironic when speaking about Robinson.

[Atomic]

 

And most players probably DO have an issue with it.  We've just been brainwashed to fall inline and say we agree with their lifestyle choice.   EX) Chris Culliver.  Only player with the balls to speak his mind.

 

I agree, most players probably DO have a problem with it. 

 

Doesn't make it right though.

 

Fortunately, society is changing very quickly. This will be a non-issue in 20 years. 

 

 

Right, just like race relations are a non-issue now.

[mbrg]

 

 

And most players probably DO have an issue with it.  We've just been brainwashed to fall inline and say we agree with their lifestyle choice.   EX) Chris Culliver.  Only player with the balls to speak his mind.

 

I agree, most players probably DO have a problem with it. 

 

Doesn't make it right though.

 

Fortunately, society is changing very quickly. This will be a non-issue in 20 years. 

 

 

Right, just like race relations are a non-issue now.

 

 

According to Fox news...

[NotoriousBIG]

 

 

And most players probably DO have an issue with it.  We've just been brainwashed to fall inline and say we agree with their lifestyle choice.   EX) Chris Culliver.  Only player with the balls to speak his mind.

 

I agree, most players probably DO have a problem with it. 

 

Doesn't make it right though.

 

Fortunately, society is changing very quickly. This will be a non-issue in 20 years. 

 

 

Right, just like race relations are a non-issue now.

 

 

The difference is, being gay is inclusive. Every race has gay people. Even the bigots are slowly acknowledging this. 

 

Race, because its us vs. them, will always be divisive to some small minded people. Especially during economic downturns when scapegoats are required.