gbill2004 Posted January 11, 2015 Report Posted January 11, 2015 I thought a lot of Greaves struggles were due to playing beside January and having him get beat like a rented mule game in and game out.There was a bit of that, struggling to find a block that could be attributed to poor work by the line as a whole. But Greaves just got plain beat physically and knocked right into the backfield far too often. Major regression from what he had shown the previous couple seasons. As far as Goossen being ready to start.... are you kidding??? Did you actually watch him play? He needs more time, how much more time will depend on how he has grown this offseason. But he's not there yet.We saw Goossen at guard, and yes he can't block well enough to play there for any length of time without our QB getting killed. That's exactly my point. We don't have a surplus of guards or "interior" guys because at least two of those guys (Goossen and Picard) can't block consistently enough to play anywhere but centre where they won't get isolated 1 on 1 with a defensive lineman very often.I don't think you're giving Goossen a fair shot. I recall him getting beat a few times last year, but they were mostly mental mistakes that can be corrected with experience. He has the ability and will only get better. With a year under his belt now, we will see him improve this year. I think he'd be a very good guard with more seasoning. Your statement that he just can't play guard is unfair in my opinion.
Rids Posted January 11, 2015 Report Posted January 11, 2015 Didn't Everett go to training camp last year? If he did then he was released to return to CIS and then a free agent unless they have re-signed him since the end of the CIS season. Anybody have the list of transactions?
Mike Posted January 11, 2015 Author Report Posted January 11, 2015 Didn't Everett go to training camp last year? If he did then he was released to return to CIS and then a free agent unless they have re-signed him since the end of the CIS season. Anybody have the list of transactions? He can be placed on the team's negotiation list.
gbill2004 Posted January 11, 2015 Report Posted January 11, 2015 Didn't Everett go to training camp last year? If he did then he was released to return to CIS and then a free agent unless they have re-signed him since the end of the CIS season. Anybody have the list of transactions? I thought the Bombers retained his rights because of his CIS eligibility last year.
Mike Posted January 11, 2015 Author Report Posted January 11, 2015 Didn't Everett go to training camp last year? If he did then he was released to return to CIS and then a free agent unless they have re-signed him since the end of the CIS season. Anybody have the list of transactions? I thought the Bombers retained his rights because of his CIS eligibility last year. It's not automatic, player still has to clear waivers and be placed on team's negotiation list as far as I know. The waiver process is more of a formality though. The player usually wants to go back to school in these cases. The CFL really should get together and adjust this and the idea of allowing teams to own player rights when they go to the NFL. Allow teams to protect their assets.
gbill2004 Posted January 11, 2015 Report Posted January 11, 2015 Didn't Everett go to training camp last year? If he did then he was released to return to CIS and then a free agent unless they have re-signed him since the end of the CIS season. Anybody have the list of transactions? I thought the Bombers retained his rights because of his CIS eligibility last year.It's not automatic, player still has to clear waivers and be placed on team's negotiation list as far as I know. The waiver process is more of a formality though. The player usually wants to go back to school in these cases. The CFL really should get together and adjust this and the idea of allowing teams to own player rights when they go to the NFL. Allow teams to protect their assets. So you're saying David Foucault, who the Als drafted, is a free agent now? Pretty sure that's not the case.
Mike Posted January 11, 2015 Author Report Posted January 11, 2015 Didn't Everett go to training camp last year? If he did then he was released to return to CIS and then a free agent unless they have re-signed him since the end of the CIS season. Anybody have the list of transactions? I thought the Bombers retained his rights because of his CIS eligibility last year.It's not automatic, player still has to clear waivers and be placed on team's negotiation list as far as I know. The waiver process is more of a formality though. The player usually wants to go back to school in these cases. The CFL really should get together and adjust this and the idea of allowing teams to own player rights when they go to the NFL. Allow teams to protect their assets. So you're saying David Foucault, who the Als drafted, is a free agent now? Pretty sure that's not the case. No ... I was just mentioning it as an aside from the draft. Situations where teams could allow players to test the NFL in the offseason knowing if they left and wanted to come back to the CFL, the team that allowed them to leave would retain the rights (or even put in place some kind of restricted free agency)
gbill2004 Posted January 11, 2015 Report Posted January 11, 2015 Didn't Everett go to training camp last year? If he did then he was released to return to CIS and then a free agent unless they have re-signed him since the end of the CIS season. Anybody have the list of transactions? I thought the Bombers retained his rights because of his CIS eligibility last year.It's not automatic, player still has to clear waivers and be placed on team's negotiation list as far as I know. The waiver process is more of a formality though. The player usually wants to go back to school in these cases. The CFL really should get together and adjust this and the idea of allowing teams to own player rights when they go to the NFL. Allow teams to protect their assets. So you're saying David Foucault, who the Als drafted, is a free agent now? Pretty sure that's not the case.No ... I was just mentioning it as an aside from the draft. Situations where teams could allow players to test the NFL in the offseason knowing if they left and wanted to come back to the CFL, the team that allowed them to leave would retain the rights (or even put in place some kind of restricted free agency) Still not sure I'm following. Would Ian Wild be an example of what you're getting at? Or Henoc last year?
Mike Posted January 11, 2015 Author Report Posted January 11, 2015 Didn't Everett go to training camp last year? If he did then he was released to return to CIS and then a free agent unless they have re-signed him since the end of the CIS season. Anybody have the list of transactions? I thought the Bombers retained his rights because of his CIS eligibility last year.It's not automatic, player still has to clear waivers and be placed on team's negotiation list as far as I know. The waiver process is more of a formality though. The player usually wants to go back to school in these cases. The CFL really should get together and adjust this and the idea of allowing teams to own player rights when they go to the NFL. Allow teams to protect their assets. So you're saying David Foucault, who the Als drafted, is a free agent now? Pretty sure that's not the case.No ... I was just mentioning it as an aside from the draft. Situations where teams could allow players to test the NFL in the offseason knowing if they left and wanted to come back to the CFL, the team that allowed them to leave would retain the rights (or even put in place some kind of restricted free agency)Still not sure I'm following. Would Ian Wild be an example of what you're getting at? Or Henoc last year? No because neither one really has a contract remaining. Hard to find a recent example because the option year clause is gone. Philip Hunt would be a recent one ... He left in an option year but would be a free agent if he ever returned to the CFL. Which I don't like because technically he had a year on his contract when he left.
Jpan85 Posted January 11, 2015 Report Posted January 11, 2015 Better example would be all the guys Barker has released to give the NFL a shot. Retain their rights instead of a out right release.
gbill2004 Posted January 11, 2015 Report Posted January 11, 2015 Better example would be all the guys Barker has released to give the NFL a shot. Retain their rights instead of a out right release.Weren't all those guys pending FAs in a couple months though?
Mike Posted January 11, 2015 Author Report Posted January 11, 2015 Better example would be all the guys Barker has released to give the NFL a shot. Retain their rights instead of a out right release.Weren't all those guys pending FAs in a couple months though? He released Marcus Ball last offseason when Ball had a year left on his deal, I think. If so, that's actually a perfect example of what I'm talking about. If that wasn't the case, for the sake of this discussion, let's just pretend it was. You shouldn't have to rip up a guy's contract to allow him to pursue the NFL.
gbill2004 Posted January 11, 2015 Report Posted January 11, 2015 Better example would be all the guys Barker has released to give the NFL a shot. Retain their rights instead of a out right release.Weren't all those guys pending FAs in a couple months though? He released Marcus Ball last offseason when Ball had a year left on his deal, I think. If so, that's actually a perfect example of what I'm talking about. If that wasn't the case, for the sake of this discussion, let's just pretend it was. You shouldn't have to rip up a guy's contract to allow him to pursue the NFL. I understand now. Could just be a thing where the CFL contract rolls over until when/if the player returns to the CFL. With Ball, if he ever returned to the CFL he'd still have one year left on his contract. Dollar value might need to be renegotiated though, depending on player value at the time he returns.
Rids Posted January 11, 2015 Report Posted January 11, 2015 Just to summarize: If a CFL team drafts a player they hold their rights. If they sign that player and bring them to training camp, they must be released to return to CIS which makes them a free agent. Many players have a handshake deal in mind that they'll return to their team but history shows us that it doesn't always go that way (Ameet Pall who Calgary released to add to their PR signed with Montreal a day later). So Mike is right that they could put him on their neg list to hold rights but not many Canadians end up on the neg list. It would be nice to see CFL players retain rights in some form (similar to the NHL with junior players) after sending their guys back to CIS. It does blur the lines of amateurism but their should be some way to do it.
gbill2004 Posted January 11, 2015 Report Posted January 11, 2015 Just to summarize: If a CFL team drafts a player they hold their rights. If they sign that player and bring them to training camp, they must be released to return to CIS which makes them a free agent. Many players have a handshake deal in mind that they'll return to their team but history shows us that it doesn't always go that way (Ameet Pall who Calgary released to add to their PR signed with Montreal a day later). So Mike is right that they could put him on their neg list to hold rights but not many Canadians end up on the neg list. It would be nice to see CFL players retain rights in some form (similar to the NHL with junior players) after sending their guys back to CIS. It does blur the lines of amateurism but their should be some way to do it. Thanks Rids. This is a nice summary that clarifies Quinn Everett's situation.
Jacquie Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 (Ameet Pall who Calgary released to add to their PR signed with Montreal a day later) That's not what happened with Pall though. He was injured during TC and the Stamps didn't want to put him on their IR. They released him and told him to come back when his injury healed. He signed with Montreal and they put him on their IR.
mbrg Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 First off, what happened to make Mehdi Abdesmad drop out of the top 20 rankings from September to now? 9th to gone is a pretty steep drop. Tyler Holmes is expected to sign with Ottawa? That is the current consensus, just because it's easy to connect the dots. He's from Ottawa, he's going to be a free agent, Desjardins likes to try and outbid everyone, Holmes sounds like he'll go where the money is. That doesn't make it so, but people like to make forecasts and the chances of being right are higher with this FA than most others. Most of the time predictions for free agency is just throwing darts with a blindfold on, so a solid 30% chance is the same as 100% to some people. No one knows right now, except maybe for Holmes' agent. Free agency may dictate things although I could see Danny Groulx being our guy.I also don't see it being Sukh Chungh Chungh is where Dunk lost me. Just seems like there are a half-dozen better fits than that one. Also, predicting the first 2 picks of the 2014 draft is not much of a claim to fame. I think most CFL fans got those 2 right. If we go OL on the 2nd overall, I agree it should be Groulx. We already have a bunch of interior OLs already. Of course, everything will change if Walters will be able to sign Heenan. I don't like the idea of taking a guy just because we're desperate to find ratio breakers, but if he looks like he has the potential to be a solid starter, I'd lean that way too. There's a limit to how many players can be in the pipeline for any one position. Don't agree on tackle over guard. First of all, take the best player with consideration given to availability around the NFL. Secondly, we don't have a surplus of interior guys. Picard and Morley are just about done, Greaves is coming off a horrendous season and Neufeld can't stay healthy, Goossen looks ready to play centre. If two guys were equal, but I was sure one would be able to play guard vs a guy who'd have to adjust to the speed of the CFL to be a tackle (basically everyone available would), I'm taking the guard. I don't expect anyone taken in 2015 to be ready to start for 2015, at least not right away, so 3 of the 6 we have now (plus any FA's picked up along the way) are still more likely to start in my mind than any guard taken in the draft, even if it's at the 2 spot. History doesn't have a long list of first year starters. The best available at that second spot may very well be a tackle. The list of pros on Groulx sounds pretty long, the list of cons sounds short. I'd hate it if we take Groulx... as far as Im concerned we dont have ANY good Gaurds... Get a couple Americans at T, and worry about fixing the interior of the OL. There will be imports at tackle regardless of whether or not we draft Groulx. Almost no chance he comes out of CIS ready to face the Odell Willis' of the world in week 1. NI talent at the tackle position exists, otherwise Heenan and the rest would not be trusted by their respective teams at those spots. They'd be playing guard instead. The Bombers need to identify if Groulx has the goods. If they think he does, draft him. Starting guards show up in every draft class. Starting tackles do not. Passing on one just because we have a sour taste in our mouths from last season is not sound decision making.
Atomic Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 First off, what happened to make Mehdi Abdesmad drop out of the top 20 rankings from September to now? 9th to gone is a pretty steep drop. He had knee surgery which ended his season. The surgery was related to an injury that ended his previous season. Teams are probably a little scared off now. mbrg 1
Mike Posted January 12, 2015 Author Report Posted January 12, 2015 Personally, I'm with gbill's list. Groulx, Waud or Durant would be good with me. Pre-combine of course. Mateas isn't going to the CFL Combine. Interesting move. Going to showcase at the UConn Pro Day instead.
JuranBoldenRules Posted January 13, 2015 Report Posted January 13, 2015 Just to summarize: If a CFL team drafts a player they hold their rights. If they sign that player and bring them to training camp, they must be released to return to CIS which makes them a free agent. Many players have a handshake deal in mind that they'll return to their team but history shows us that it doesn't always go that way (Ameet Pall who Calgary released to add to their PR signed with Montreal a day later). So Mike is right that they could put him on their neg list to hold rights but not many Canadians end up on the neg list. It would be nice to see CFL players retain rights in some form (similar to the NHL with junior players) after sending their guys back to CIS. It does blur the lines of amateurism but their should be some way to do it. Back to the question on Foucault. This answers it. He never signed a CFL contract so the Als hold his rights until he does.
Floyd Posted January 13, 2015 Report Posted January 13, 2015 Waud fills more of a need for this team and there are less fa dl out there
gbill2004 Posted January 13, 2015 Report Posted January 13, 2015 Waud fills more of a need for this team and there are less fa dl out thereThe thing with taking Waud is you're kind of betting that Mulumba and Bilukidi aren't with the Bombers any time soon.
James Posted January 13, 2015 Report Posted January 13, 2015 what about Waud/Durant/Varga at 2 and Chungh at 11? I don't think Chungh is worth 2nd overall, but I think I'd be interested at 11. Floyd 1
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