Do you think Jets will make any trades now?

[Atomic]

Can't trade an injured player.

 

According to whom?

[The Unknown Poster]

You can but only if both teams are aware of injury and accept that. You can't pretend a player is healthy and trade him

[sweep the leg]

 

Can't trade an injured player.

 

According to whom?

 

According to me...

 

I'm wrong about that. I thought that was a rule, but I looked it up after and it turns out I just made it up.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Kane on injured reserve list. Cormier brought up.

 

Cormier's been given more chances then a rigged roulette wheel.

[The Unknown Poster]

As I suspected.

[Brandon]

The Jets really don't have anyone good to call up...Thorburn will see the ice more and Cormier will sit on the fourth line...

[Ducky]

Kane and Postma for Ryan Johansen from CBJ.

Two fourth overall picks drafted a year apart from each other.

I'd even throw in a 3rd rounder.

 

Put Scheifele between Lowry and Komaschuk.

Slater between Thorbs and Hali/Pelu.

[Mark F]

weren't the Jets winning more games before their injured players came back?

[Goalie]

Jets were 5-0 prior to the all star break. Injured players back then too. Perhaps the kane drama has been lingering since the all star break. Players like kane can really screw a team up.

[The Unknown Poster]

The team wasnt playing very well before the break despite the winning.  It seems to have come to a head.  But its a fair question as to what might have caused them to get away from their stellar play.  Was Kane hurt during that run of awesome play...?

[17to85]

Kane and Postma for Ryan Johansen from CBJ.

Two fourth overall picks drafted a year apart from each other.

I'd even throw in a 3rd rounder.

 

a third rounder, how generous of you. Johansen has way way way way way way way way more value than Kane and Postma isn't enough to bridge that gap. 

[DR. CFL]

Well Chevy, now having a bad actor coming off labrum surgery in his shoulder you might get a Kia for him without a warranty. Good luck. You waited too long to dumb that turd.

[Ducky]

 

Kane and Postma for Ryan Johansen from CBJ.

Two fourth overall picks drafted a year apart from each other.

I'd even throw in a 3rd rounder.

 

a third rounder, how generous of you. Johansen has way way way way way way way way more value than Kane and Postma isn't enough to bridge that gap. 

 

okay, I'd throw in Pardy too....

Seriously, upgrade to a 2nd rounder and make the deal although he is out 4-6 months now with shoulder surgery so this will be done in the off season where the Jets get more back for him. I am guessing it will happen before the draft or on draft day.

 

[The Unknown Poster]

Well Chevy, now having a bad actor coming off labrum surgery in his shoulder you might get a Kia for him without a warranty. Good luck. You waited too long to dumb that turd.

Hindsight is 20/20 but it goes without saying NOW that the Jets goofed big time by not trading Kane this past off-season.  But had he been healthy, scored 40 goals and was a wonderful team mate and community guy, we'd be thrilled.  So what can you do.  There will be teams that will get into a bidding war for a 23 year old with a good contract and a 30 goal season.  As long as Docs say he's 100%, we'll get a good return in July.

[The Unknown Poster]

Evander Kane’s Value Shouldn’t Be Underestimated

http://thehockeywriters.com/evander-kanes-value-shouldnt-be-underestimated/

 

There’s a lot to undress in the ongoing Evander Kane soap opera in Winnipeg. A report from Chris Johnston at Sportsnet indicates that Kane may have intentionally skipped the Jets’ game in Vancouver after teammates threw his track suit — worn in violation of team policy — into the shower.

 

There’s never been a doubt that Kane has a strong personality, but skipping a game would be another level. However, there’s a lot we don’t know about this situation. We don’t know if this was a long line in a string of bullying incidents or if it was an isolated incident. We don’t know if his absence, as some have indicated, was really the result of the injuries Kane has been struggling with all season or if it was related to the shower incident, which appears to carry more weight than reports early in the day indicated, as the team placed him injured reserve late Thursday afternoon.

 

Renaud Lavoie tweeted Kane’s side of the story after Johnston’s story broke as well, which adds another layer. Bob McKenzie talked a couple of times today noting that there have been problems with Kane and some teammates, notably Dustin Byfuglien, for some time.

 

 

 

While the situation is complicated and there are questions of whether or not the shower incident crossed from locker room shenanigans into bullying, what is clear is that there is some bad blood in between Kane and some members of the Jets organization. It seems clear that Kane, fairly, appears upset about how he was treated. It’s clear that, once again, there’s some interest from the Jets in trading Kane.

 

Let’s set today’s situation aside, for the moment. Despite whatever bad blood there is, Kane has played hard in his career for the Jets and he’s battled through injuries all season to stay on the ice and help his team. Assuming his health, which a GM can’t completely assume for this season, what is Kane’s value to a team that acquires him?

Scoring

Since the 2009-10 season, Kane has a .94 goals per 60 minutes of play (G/60), 37th in the NHL among players who’ve played at least 2,000 minutes. That puts him in some good company. Just above him? Thomas Vanek, Patrick Kane, Pascal Dupuis, and Jason Pominville. Just below? Daniel Sedin, Andrew Ladd, Patrick Marleau, and Chris Stewart.

His shots per 60 minutes of play (S/60) is 11.30. That’s the fifth best mark in the NHL among all players over that same span. He’s also not doing this by taking just a couple of shots in limited minutes. In his career he’s averaged 14:18 of 5-on-5 ice time, which ranks 34th among all NHL forwards over that time. His 18 minutes per game in all situations ranks 81st among all forwards.

 

His possession numbers are positive as well, if only slightly so, at 50.5% CF% in his career, which is +1.2% CF%Rel.

Using Own the Puck‘s excellent new graphic display, you can see that Kane has been a solid second line winger with first line scoring ability over the last three years. That three-year span leaves out his 30-goal season and he’s still hitting solid numbers.

Usage

Here’s a look at the players with the top 50 G/60 rates since 2009 and their usage. (Click to enlarge.)

You’ll find Kane just to the left center of that large clump in the middle.

Kane’s hanging in this top group, but is getting fewer offensive zone starts than the majority of these guys and hanging around the midway point in shots. He also, as mentioned before, sports a positive relative Corsi For, which isn’t a given in this group.

Power Play Time

It’s not in the chart, but he ranks 42nd among these 50 in power play time per game. Among all forwards who have played at least 500 power play minutes since 2009-10, he ranks 167th in average PP time per game among 183 forwards that qualify. You might expect a scorer of his caliber to get more power play time, but he also hasn’t been super productive on the power play. His 47.1 shots for per 60 (SF/60) on the power play rank 176th in that same group. He’s tied for 115th in G/60 and his 2.5 points per 60 minutes (P/60) ranks 175th.

 

Evander Kane (Bruce Fedyck-US PRESSWIRE)

If you expand that group out to players who’ve logged 150 power play minutes or more over the same period, his TOI/G ranks 227th among 352 forwards. Likewise, he drops in other categories, ranking 183rd in G/60, 308th in P/60, and 260th in SF/60.

 

He doesn’t have a stellar record on the power play, but he’s also putting up impressive totals over his career without getting big power play minutes for a player of his skill and goal-scoring capability.

To Trade or Not To Trade

There are a lot of questions about Evander Kane, but things being said are more than a little reminiscent of the end of Tyler Seguin’s time in Boston and that situation turned out all right for Seguin and the team that acquired him. (Though, yes, there are certainly plenty of differences too.)

 

In the end, things are sour in Winnipeg. Kane is on IR, but he’s got three years left on his contract at $6M per year and a $5.25M cap hit, according to NHL Numbers. Kane provides a lot of value for a team and there’s no reason to believe that these annual spring storylines involving Kane couldn’t disappear when he’s on a team where there’s some mutual respect keeping both sides from making a scene.

 

Many writers have noted that there’s interest from GMs in Kane. You can’t ignore the situation that has been going on in Winnipeg for a few years with Kane, but you also can’t ignore the fact that the problems go both ways and that there aren’t many opportunities to acquire a player who can score goals like Kane can.

Data from War on Ice, Hockey Analysis, and Own the Puck.

[The Unknown Poster]

The "Kane's side of the story" tweet referenced above is that Kane wore his track suit because he thought the team meeting was at the hotel, not the arena.  Which is fine but isnt much of an excuse when 20+ other players knew where it was.

 

A lot of comparison's being drawn to Tyler Sequin and I'll say there are two reasons a GM might give us good value for Kane:

 

- Boston wanted to be rod of Tyler and it turned out great for the player and the Stars.  The Jets can point to that as not being a player issue but moreso a "right fit" issue

 

- How many GM's will look at this and say "yeah but that's Winnipeg.  Who wouldnt have an attitude problem being forced to play there.  He wont be like that on MY team".

[17to85]

 

 

Kane and Postma for Ryan Johansen from CBJ.

Two fourth overall picks drafted a year apart from each other.

I'd even throw in a 3rd rounder.

 

a third rounder, how generous of you. Johansen has way way way way way way way way more value than Kane and Postma isn't enough to bridge that gap. 

 

okay, I'd throw in Pardy too....

Seriously, upgrade to a 2nd rounder and make the deal although he is out 4-6 months now with shoulder surgery so this will be done in the off season where the Jets get more back for him. I am guessing it will happen before the draft or on draft day.

 

 

upgrade it to the Jets first rounder and the Blue Jackets might not immediately hang up the phone but I think you are really over estimating how much value a known problem child in Kane is going to have, especially when you consider that Johansen has done nothing but up his value in recent years. Being a guy who can play top line centre he automatically holds more value than a winger, never mind that he's gotten better and better where as Kane hasn't and is a massive gamble because of his attitude. Pardy and Postma are throw ins that every team has. You are going to be disappointed in the return Kane gets I guarantee it. Teams will want him, but they'll want him at a discount price. 

[sweep the leg]

You'll be in for a huge letdown if you're expecting that calibre of player back for Kane.

[HardCoreBlue]

 

 

 

Kane and Postma for Ryan Johansen from CBJ.

Two fourth overall picks drafted a year apart from each other.

I'd even throw in a 3rd rounder.

 

a third rounder, how generous of you. Johansen has way way way way way way way way more value than Kane and Postma isn't enough to bridge that gap. 

 

okay, I'd throw in Pardy too....

Seriously, upgrade to a 2nd rounder and make the deal although he is out 4-6 months now with shoulder surgery so this will be done in the off season where the Jets get more back for him. I am guessing it will happen before the draft or on draft day.

 

 

upgrade it to the Jets first rounder and the Blue Jackets might not immediately hang up the phone but I think you are really over estimating how much value a known problem child in Kane is going to have, especially when you consider that Johansen has done nothing but up his value in recent years. Being a guy who can play top line centre he automatically holds more value than a winger, never mind that he's gotten better and better where as Kane hasn't and is a massive gamble because of his attitude. Pardy and Postma are throw ins that every team has. You are going to be disappointed in the return Kane gets I guarantee it. Teams will want him, but they'll want him at a discount price. 

 

If that's true and if I'm Chevy, I'm not letting him go at a discount price. He's under contract.

If he demands a trade, we would still be in the drivers seat.

The big however is if the Jets continue to falter as they are and with Kane now out of the lineup for possibly an extended period of time (injury), management may feel pressured to figure out how to replace him (i.e., seeing if there are any takers).

Selfishly, my hope is the Jets start to get back into the W column consistently, taking some of the immediacy away from dealing with the Kane situation.   

[The Unknown Poster]

I think this adds pressure for Chevy to bring in forward help immediately, regardless of Kane.

 

Whereas he might have wanted some bottom six help, he sort of needs mid-six at least.  They surely want to get Buff back to D so they really need TWO good wingers here in trades.  Can they get that without moving Kane?  Sure but it might mean moving assets they didnt want to move.

 

The good thing about GM's is they dont really trust each other.  For Kane's stock to drop significantly, he would have to have an injury they all know he hasnt recovered from, a really bad contract or a public refusal to play for certain teams.  No GM who covets Kane is going to trust that 28 other GM's will all sit back and wait Chevy out.  All Chevy needs is two GM's who really want him that he can leverage against each other.

[The Unknown Poster]

I wonder if Buffalo might be a good fit, especially with Kane having surgery.  The last thing Buffalo wants to do is get better right now.  Stafford/Stewart plus a bottom six under contract plus Grigorenko plus one of their first round picks?  Would that do it?  helps the Jets now and future.  Helps Buffalo next season by giving them a flashy offensive talent with veteran experience who they can build around and is still young enough to be the center piece of said re build,.

[HardCoreBlue]

I think this adds pressure for Chevy to bring in forward help immediately, regardless of Kane.

 

Whereas he might have wanted some bottom six help, he sort of needs mid-six at least.  They surely want to get Buff back to D so they really need TWO good wingers here in trades.  Can they get that without moving Kane?  Sure but it might mean moving assets they didnt want to move.

 

The good thing about GM's is they dont really trust each other.  For Kane's stock to drop significantly, he would have to have an injury they all know he hasnt recovered from, a really bad contract or a public refusal to play for certain teams.  No GM who covets Kane is going to trust that 28 other GM's will all sit back and wait Chevy out.  All Chevy needs is two GM's who really want him that he can leverage against each other.

 

Not if the Jets can get back to winning consistently like they were before. Why would our GM feel pressured if his existing squad is doing well, knowing there is always room for improvement. Again, the pressure will mount if the L's continue to mount.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

I think this adds pressure for Chevy to bring in forward help immediately, regardless of Kane.

 

Whereas he might have wanted some bottom six help, he sort of needs mid-six at least.  They surely want to get Buff back to D so they really need TWO good wingers here in trades.  Can they get that without moving Kane?  Sure but it might mean moving assets they didnt want to move.

 

The good thing about GM's is they dont really trust each other.  For Kane's stock to drop significantly, he would have to have an injury they all know he hasnt recovered from, a really bad contract or a public refusal to play for certain teams.  No GM who covets Kane is going to trust that 28 other GM's will all sit back and wait Chevy out.  All Chevy needs is two GM's who really want him that he can leverage against each other.

 

Not if the Jets can get back to winning consistently like they were before. Why would our GM feel pressured if his existing squad is doing well, knowing there is always room for improvement. Again, the pressure will mount if the L's continue to mount.

 

No matter how well they do in reality, we know on paper this team lacks depth and thats what is going to kill them if they make the playoffs.  Well that or goaltending.

[Atomic]

I wonder if Buffalo might be a good fit, especially with Kane having surgery.  The last thing Buffalo wants to do is get better right now.  Stafford/Stewart plus a bottom six under contract plus Grigorenko plus one of their first round picks?  Would that do it?  helps the Jets now and future.  Helps Buffalo next season by giving them a flashy offensive talent with veteran experience who they can build around and is still young enough to be the center piece of said re build,.

 

Interesting thought but no way they are giving up draft picks right now.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

I wonder if Buffalo might be a good fit, especially with Kane having surgery.  The last thing Buffalo wants to do is get better right now.  Stafford/Stewart plus a bottom six under contract plus Grigorenko plus one of their first round picks?  Would that do it?  helps the Jets now and future.  Helps Buffalo next season by giving them a flashy offensive talent with veteran experience who they can build around and is still young enough to be the center piece of said re build,.

 

Interesting thought but no way they are giving up draft picks right now.

 

Buffalo?  I think they have three first round picks.  I could definitely see them trading a pick at some point.