Mark Chipman Presser - Development Deal No Longer Certain

[JuranBoldenRules]

 

Lied is a strong word.  He said he'd heard rumours and rumblings but the details of the development had not be presented to himself or council.  That's still where we are at. 

 

How about misrepresented?  

 

Chipman also said a copy of the option agreement for the project was sent to City Hall and that Bowman and other city councillors had access to it, despite claims made by Bowman the information contained in the agreement hasn’t been handed over. “It was delivered to the city solicitor on December first under conditions that clearly allow it to be used by the city, its administration and the mayor himself for the collective assessment and due diligence on our project.”

 

 

Bowman has nothing to apologize for except for Chipman's overreaction to anything Chipman views as potentially questioning his reputation.  Anything that requires millions of dollars of public money or a change in an already approved plan that will cost the city millions should hit the floor of council.  Why is this seen as acting against Chipman?  If this development is such a great thing and makes good financial sense for the city, he should have nothing to worry about.

 

 

Chipman's overreaction? 

Interesting that you should choose to present Chipman in that light. 

He states that he wanted to present the facts and because of how things were handled..at City Hall, they want to reevaluate what they do going forward.

That seems pretty clear and pretty fair.

It is in no way Chipman's fault how the matter was handled by CentreVenture, nor should the spotlight be shone on True North when they have presented a viable alternative.

Bowman could have easily handled this whole affair in a much better fashion, but rushed into statements that don't present the entire story.

His bad.

Chipman has a proven record in Winnipeg and his objection to the characterization of True North and this proposed deal is understandable.

 

Bowman doesn't have to rubber stamp anything…but he certainly shouldn't have called True North's intentions into question.

 

Here's Chipman's media address and it is powerful and interesting:

 

https://soundcloud.com/680cjob/mark-chipman-full

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The confidentiality agreement in the deal signed by Centreventure and True North kind of prevents anyone else from presenting the entire story.  Would be nice if Chipman would give us that story instead of getting his back up when the city asks questions about where it's money is going.

 

The only objection by Bowman, and he's quite right to object, is that an arms length corporation went around what the actual elected representatives approved when they panicked.  There's some weird stuff there since Chipman was on the board and fully aware of everything going on.  Some have suggested that other True North developments and interests scuttled any chance SOD had to find a different partner to run the proposed hotel, but I'm choosing to believe Chipman's version of events on that side of things until the facts prove I shouldn't.

[Mr Dee]

 

 

Lied is a strong word.  He said he'd heard rumours and rumblings but the details of the development had not be presented to himself or council.  That's still where we are at. 

 

How about misrepresented?  

 

Chipman also said a copy of the option agreement for the project was sent to City Hall and that Bowman and other city councillors had access to it, despite claims made by Bowman the information contained in the agreement hasn’t been handed over. “It was delivered to the city solicitor on December first under conditions that clearly allow it to be used by the city, its administration and the mayor himself for the collective assessment and due diligence on our project.”

 

 

Bowman has nothing to apologize for except for Chipman's overreaction to anything Chipman views as potentially questioning his reputation.  Anything that requires millions of dollars of public money or a change in an already approved plan that will cost the city millions should hit the floor of council.  Why is this seen as acting against Chipman?  If this development is such a great thing and makes good financial sense for the city, he should have nothing to worry about.

 

 

Chipman's overreaction? 

Interesting that you should choose to present Chipman in that light. 

He states that he wanted to present the facts and because of how things were handled..at City Hall, they want to reevaluate what they do going forward.

That seems pretty clear and pretty fair.

It is in no way Chipman's fault how the matter was handled by CentreVenture, nor should the spotlight be shone on True North when they have presented a viable alternative.

Bowman could have easily handled this whole affair in a much better fashion, but rushed into statements that don't present the entire story.

His bad.

Chipman has a proven record in Winnipeg and his objection to the characterization of True North and this proposed deal is understandable.

 

Bowman doesn't have to rubber stamp anything…but he certainly shouldn't have called True North's intentions into question.

 

Here's Chipman's media address and it is powerful and interesting:

 

https://soundcloud.com/680cjob/mark-chipman-full

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The confidentiality agreement in the deal signed by Centreventure and True North kind of prevents anyone else from presenting the entire story.  Would be nice if Chipman would give us that story instead of getting his back up when the city asks questions about where it's money is going.

 

The only objection by Bowman, and he's quite right to object, is that an arms length corporation went around what the actual elected representatives approved when they panicked.  There's some weird stuff there since Chipman was on the board and fully aware of everything going on.  Some have suggested that other True North developments and interests scuttled any chance SOD had to find a different partner to run the proposed hotel, but I'm choosing to believe Chipman's version of events on that side of things until the facts prove I shouldn't.

 

 

Chipman addresses concerns in the media release.

The city's administration had the facts necessary to follow the trail, but the Mayor chose to spout the words without paying attention to what had already been delivered to the city.

Chipman fully explained his relationship with CentreVenture, and he has the facts and dates to back what he says.

Bowman has nothing to fall back on because he misspoke.

If he had done the same due diligence as the parties involved, he wouldn't have put himself, True North and CentreVenture in this situation.

Now, if the Chipman group pull out they, (the city), will be further back than square one.

[JuranBoldenRules]

Well, Chipman was serving on the board of Centreventure when SOD came back saying they could not meet the terms of the agreement they had to develop the Carlton Inn site.  Chipman knew Centreventure was prone and desperate, he was part of Centreventure.  He didn't directly negotiate with himself as he recused himself from the Centreventure board, but he knew the hand Centreventure was playing.  Centreventure pulled an end around and skipped the part about having an open proposal process and reporting all the goings on to city council, Centreventure is a creation of city council after all.  Council and the mayor cannot view the details of the agreement between True North and Centreventure due to a confidentiality agreement in that deal and review the demands placed on the developer in comparison to the original demands on SOD.  As a private businessman, Chipman took advantage of the situation.  Fair enough.  As a city, we don't know what the options were, because we don't know what the agreement entails and if the demands on the developer were adjusted from original ones placed on SOD, there could have been other parties willing to offer to develop the hotel site, potentially in a way that didn't cost the taxpayer as much.

 

I listened to Chipman on CJOB for about an hour combined this AM, and the more I hear him get defensive the more I wonder what's actually going on here.  He really has nothing to put forward in terms of details, it's all bluster.  Why would he begrudge the city doing it's due diligence and what is being hidden?  I'm not questioning his motives because public money is involved as he would suggest, I'm questioning his motives because he won't disclose them or much else.  If you want public money in your developments, you need to be willing to follow the process.  If you want to move in secret and below the radar, pay for it yourself.

[Rich]

I watched Chipman's news conference and I the only thing I see him getting defensive about is the City implying and portraying him as doing backroom deals.  It isn't his job to make sure that Centreventure or the City follow their own processes.

 

If you listen to his side of the events, and they sound believable to me, Centreventure was in trouble when their prior deal fell through.  He offered a solution.  They could have said no.  They could have taken it back to council,  But they didn't.  They had the mandate from City council to negotiate this deal and Chipman negotiated with them.  He followed the process that was there at the time.  

 

Want to be mad at someone, get mad at Centreventure, and the prior administration for setting up the rules.  What else was Chipman supposed to do at that time?  Wag his finger at Centreventure and demand they get council approval?  Not his job.

 

Chipman is mad because he has a legally binding agreement with which he could bring the City to court.  The city reneged on the deal, and painted him with the same brush as the other corrupt deals that were done.

 

If it comes out that Chipman was giving kickbacks back to Centreventure or some other illegal means to broker the deal, then he deserves to be called out on it and prosecuted.

 

Don't think it is right to tarnish his name and reputation, to imply that he is doing backroom deals when he did business in the manner in which the prior administration set things up (by negotiating with Centreventure).  This is why he is mad.  

[The Unknown Poster]

I voted for bowman. He lied. He owes Chipman an apology and he owes voters an explanation.

[blueandgoldguy]

Can't even build a bloody hotel in this town without all the government agencies making a mess of it. Ah good old "capitalism".

How many Chipmans do we have that are willing to actually spend their own money and not just take it all from the taxpayer?

Define capitalism.

[blueandgoldguy]

 

 

Lied is a strong word.  He said he'd heard rumours and rumblings but the details of the development had not be presented to himself or council.  That's still where we are at. 

 

How about misrepresented?  

 

Chipman also said a copy of the option agreement for the project was sent to City Hall and that Bowman and other city councillors had access to it, despite claims made by Bowman the information contained in the agreement hasn’t been handed over. “It was delivered to the city solicitor on December first under conditions that clearly allow it to be used by the city, its administration and the mayor himself for the collective assessment and due diligence on our project.”

 

 

Bowman has nothing to apologize for except for Chipman's overreaction to anything Chipman views as potentially questioning his reputation.  Anything that requires millions of dollars of public money or a change in an already approved plan that will cost the city millions should hit the floor of council.  Why is this seen as acting against Chipman?  If this development is such a great thing and makes good financial sense for the city, he should have nothing to worry about.

 

 

Chipman's overreaction? 

Interesting that you should choose to present Chipman in that light. 

He states that he wanted to present the facts and because of how things were handled..at City Hall, they want to reevaluate what they do going forward.

That seems pretty clear and pretty fair.

It is in no way Chipman's fault how the matter was handled by CentreVenture, nor should the spotlight be shone on True North when they have presented a viable alternative.

Bowman could have easily handled this whole affair in a much better fashion, but rushed into statements that don't present the entire story.

His bad.

Chipman has a proven record in Winnipeg and his objection to the characterization of True North and this proposed deal is understandable.

 

Bowman doesn't have to rubber stamp anything…but he certainly shouldn't have called True North's intentions into question.

 

Here's Chipman's media address and it is powerful and interesting:

 

https://soundcloud.com/680cjob/mark-chipman-full

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The confidentiality agreement in the deal signed by Centreventure and True North kind of prevents anyone else from presenting the entire story.  Would be nice if Chipman would give us that story instead of getting his back up when the city asks questions about where it's money is going.

 

The only objection by Bowman, and he's quite right to object, is that an arms length corporation went around what the actual elected representatives approved when they panicked.  There's some weird stuff there since Chipman was on the board and fully aware of everything going on.  Some have suggested that other True North developments and interests scuttled any chance SOD had to find a different partner to run the proposed hotel, but I'm choosing to believe Chipman's version of events on that side of things until the facts prove I shouldn't.

 

There's also the question of whether the terms and conditions under which True North would buy the Carlton Inn Site (a hotel which was profitable by the way before CV grossly overpaid for the land) are the same as the terms and conditions that SO had to deal with when trying to garner interest for a hotel chain attached to the newly expanded convention centre, most notably the $9 million plus for that plot of land for starters.  If terms and conditions are different, as in giving TN a more favorable price on the land, then it is hardly a level playing field.  Who is to say other investors wouldn't be interested in that land at a more favorable (and probably real market value) price and under more favorable conditions.

[blueandgoldguy]

CV is so incompetent.  Ross McGowan responsible for a lot of this but he "retired."  Screwed up Main st with the WHRA building and no development since, overpay for a hotel by the convention centre so suburbanites don't have to deal with the clientele during Jet games and concerts (same thing with the St. Regis).  Shouldn't be in the business of buying out hotels, they were supposed to get rid of surplus lands, that was their mandate.  How far they have strayed from that.  Hopefully council gets rid of CV once and for all.

 

As far as downtown goes, I'm a little more skeptical of how far it has supposedly come since the 90s.  Exchange (with more residents, college and businesses) is better and the Forks appears to be healthy, but outside a tiny area around the new arena the results are lacking.  Since the jets came back the only 2 new businesses that have opened up are the Met and the new restaurant in city place..and that's with the Casino that subsidizes True North.  

 

We do have Centrepoint which will open shortly, but since the 90s the Sheraton, York the Hotel and St. Regis and Carlton Inn have all shut down so no real net gain in hotel space for downtown.  Also, Portage Place is worse than it has ever been since the 90s, especially in the last 4- 5 years.  Fewer retailers than ever, seems like it's a giant government services building.  No Globe, no IMAX anymore.  

 

The Bay downtown in the 90s was much busier as well.  I used to shop their regularly and Fridays used to be quite busy.  All 6 floors open.  Now down to 2 floors and the only full size grocery store in downtown has left the building.  Probably close altogether at any time now..

 

So how exactly has downtown come alive again in the last 4 years..outside a small area outside the arena?  And please don't point to the new apartment on Assiniboine - that has nothing to do with the Jets.

[The Unknown Poster]

Honestly I dont think it matters what the terms and conditions were compared to SOD.  In fact if TN got a better deal it might have been as a result of the work SOD did that showed little to no interest in the site.  And ofcourse we dont really know that.  And Im not sure its that important.  Even the TN deal is using 220 as part of a bigger project.  If the city said no they cant be connected, would TN want 220 by itself?

 

People get confused over the CV is for.  They arent the city and these arent public buildings.  They operate like a private entity making the best deals they can.To be there is no controversy here between CV and TN.  TN especially are innocent bystanders.  Bowman flat out lied when he said he knew little to nothing about the project.  The crazy part is, did he really think TN would sit quietly while he disparaged them and impacted a $400 million project?

 

As for downtown.  I would say the biggest things impacting downtown's decline in the 90's was sprawl and the ease at which people could go to suburban malls versus downtown stores and the lack of people downtown.  You could argue that MTSC didnt spur revitalization like many said it would.  But there was a big difference between the Moose and the Jets.  The Jets returning has done more to revitalize downtown then the MTSC did but you also have CV working.  I've seen people angrily attack the Chipmans for their multiple development projects around the arena but so what? 

[The Unknown Poster]

Bowman has finally commented.  He said he has texted back and forth with Chipman several times and will mend fences but will not apologize.

 

Ive debated this on twitter but quite frankly, he SHOULD apologize.  Someone made the point that Bowman called CV into question and accused them of making secret backroom deal, not True North.  Well how can you accuse one side in a deal of making a secret backroom deal and not have that impact the other party?

 

I think Bowman wanted to talk tough for show and didnt think Chipman, as his "buddy" would get upset.  or perhaps Bowman thought being Mayor made him powerful enough to piss off a guy like Chipman without consequences.

[blueandgoldguy]

There are no details on this project, it's just a shiny video right now.  No idea of what would be in each of the towers, how much public subsidy is required out of that $400 million.  This could be downsized in a hurry for all we know and that wouldn't have anything to do with Bowman.  Just a bluff by Chipman when he said he would pull this project.  If it is pulled, it is because it is not economically feasible.

[The Unknown Poster]

There are no details on this project, it's just a shiny video right now. No idea of what would be in each of the towers, how much public subsidy is required out of that $400 million. This could be downsized in a hurry for all we know and that wouldn't have anything to do with Bowman. Just a bluff by Chipman when he said he would pull this project. If it is pulled, it is because it is not economically feasible.

A bluff for what?

[JuranBoldenRules]

Honestly I dont think it matters what the terms and conditions were compared to SOD.  In fact if TN got a better deal it might have been as a result of the work SOD did that showed little to no interest in the site.  And ofcourse we dont really know that.  And Im not sure its that important.  Even the TN deal is using 220 as part of a bigger project.  If the city said no they cant be connected, would TN want 220 by itself?

 

People get confused over the CV is for.  They arent the city and these arent public buildings.  They operate like a private entity making the best deals they can.To be there is no controversy here between CV and TN.  TN especially are innocent bystanders.  Bowman flat out lied when he said he knew little to nothing about the project.  The crazy part is, did he really think TN would sit quietly while he disparaged them and impacted a $400 million project?

 

 

The SOD terms matter because Centreventure doesn't have the authority to change the scope of a project that council already approved, particularly when the city is going to take a huge bath on the deal CV negotiated.  They could negotiate with True North, but it would have to come back to council.  The money to purchase the Carlton Inn came from the City of Winnipeg, it's a public property now.  Centreventure is more like a hype man then an entity that can make multi-million dollar decisions with no oversight.  Problem is that previous administrations have allowed Centreventure far too much autonomy and now the lines are extremely blurred.

 

True North and Chipman are bystanders, but they also know the rules of the game.  Chipman has been involved with Centreventure for years.

[JuranBoldenRules]

 

There are no details on this project, it's just a shiny video right now. No idea of what would be in each of the towers, how much public subsidy is required out of that $400 million. This could be downsized in a hurry for all we know and that wouldn't have anything to do with Bowman. Just a bluff by Chipman when he said he would pull this project. If it is pulled, it is because it is not economically feasible.

A bluff for what?

 

 

Public opinion on this hotel issue?  

[The Unknown Poster]

There are no details on this project, it's just a shiny video right now. No idea of what would be in each of the towers, how much public subsidy is required out of that $400 million. This could be downsized in a hurry for all we know and that wouldn't have anything to do with Bowman. Just a bluff by Chipman when he said he would pull this project. If it is pulled, it is because it is not economically feasible.

A bluff for what?

Public opinion on this hotel issue?

Doubtful. I don't think there is a large negative public opinion towards TN on this at all.

[The Unknown Poster]

While remaining mum on key details -- such as the tenants -- the parties involved in the development of True North Square insisted Monday it would go ahead.

The latest news is that Manitoba Public Insurance has become a limited partner in the project. MPI owned the parking lot at 225 Carlton St. -- the current Cityplace parking lot -- and granted a development option on the site three years ago to True North Development.

 

MPI has now formalized a deal with True North to transfer ownership of the property to the development company in exchange for limited partnership in the project.

Scott Brown, a spokesman for True North, was bullish on the project's prospects of becoming a reality despite its lengthy gestation.

 

"This is another step in the process toward bringing this project to fruition," he said. "We definitely assume this project is going to get done."

 

As it stands now, the $400-million project will have three towers, including about 600,000 square feet of office and commercial in two buildings as well as a hotel/condo tower situated on the Cityplace parking lot and across Carlton Street at the former site of the Carlton Inn.

 

Geophysical drilling is currently taking place on the parking lot as part of the due diligence before construction begins. Brown would not say when construction would begin.

 

The suggestion the project has moved one step closer to reality inspired Premier Greg Selinger to weigh in on the project declaring, "It's a go."

"It shows the value of these kinds of partnerships," Selinger said. "With MPI entering into this relationship with True North... it will leverage the transformation of the downtown for well over $400 million in investment and create good jobs along the way."

 

There was media speculation the project was counting on Manitoba Liquor & Lotteries as an anchor tenant, but when the Crown corporation chose a location on Kennedy Street, True North Square proponents were unperturbed.

 

"With the land issue now taken care of, we see nothing to discourage us from moving forward," Brown said.

 

Brian Smiley, a spokesman for MPI, said the public insurer will include True North Square in its portfolio of real estate holdings.

 

"MPI will have no direct involvement in the operation of True North Square, but will hold a secured, ongoing interest in the development as part of its overall investment portfolio, at equal or better return than currently experienced," he said. "The income from this investment -- which is a small portion of the entire MPI investment portfolio -- will be used to benefit all ratepayers in the form of lower insurance premiums."

 

martin.cash@freepress.mb.ca

[Goalie]

It's happening.

[Fatty Liver]

 

While remaining mum on key details -- such as the tenants -- the parties involved in the development of True North Square insisted Monday it would go ahead.

The latest news is that Manitoba Public Insurance has become a limited partner in the project. MPI owned the parking lot at 225 Carlton St. -- the current Cityplace parking lot -- and granted a development option on the site three years ago to True North Development.

 

MPI has now formalized a deal with True North to transfer ownership of the property to the development company in exchange for limited partnership in the project.

Scott Brown, a spokesman for True North, was bullish on the project's prospects of becoming a reality despite its lengthy gestation.

 

"This is another step in the process toward bringing this project to fruition," he said. "We definitely assume this project is going to get done."

 

As it stands now, the $400-million project will have three towers, including about 600,000 square feet of office and commercial in two buildings as well as a hotel/condo tower situated on the Cityplace parking lot and across Carlton Street at the former site of the Carlton Inn.

 

Geophysical drilling is currently taking place on the parking lot as part of the due diligence before construction begins. Brown would not say when construction would begin.

 

The suggestion the project has moved one step closer to reality inspired Premier Greg Selinger to weigh in on the project declaring, "It's a go."

"It shows the value of these kinds of partnerships," Selinger said. "With MPI entering into this relationship with True North... it will leverage the transformation of the downtown for well over $400 million in investment and create good jobs along the way."

 

There was media speculation the project was counting on Manitoba Liquor & Lotteries as an anchor tenant, but when the Crown corporation chose a location on Kennedy Street, True North Square proponents were unperturbed.

 

"With the land issue now taken care of, we see nothing to discourage us from moving forward," Brown said.

 

Brian Smiley, a spokesman for MPI, said the public insurer will include True North Square in its portfolio of real estate holdings.

 

"MPI will have no direct involvement in the operation of True North Square, but will hold a secured, ongoing interest in the development as part of its overall investment portfolio, at equal or better return than currently experienced," he said. "The income from this investment -- which is a small portion of the entire MPI investment portfolio -- will be used to benefit all ratepayers in the form of lower insurance premiums."

 

martin.cash@freepress.mb.ca

 

 

Why is MPI building up a real-estate portfolio???  If they have extra cash left over they need give it back to their customer's in terms of lower rates or rebates.  Hate when government bodies use public money to pretend their financial king-pins or real-estate magnates.  When they lose out all we get back is a big "oh well", no skin off their back as they continue to collect their salaries and pensions with little consequence.

[The Unknown Poster]

I agree.  Its one thing to invest to a degree, I guess.  But if they all this money to invest in real estate, they should be lowering rates.  Isnt that their only mandate?

[Noeller]

This thing...whatever it is, exactly....is going to be amazing for the city!

[Rich]

Actually MPI holds a rather large investment portfolio...  I believe it is around $2.5 Billion.

 

 

Manitoba Public Insurance holds the funds of its policyholders in trust to meet their needs into the future. We operate in a fiscally responsible and cost-effective manner, using investment income to redu

 

Part of their strategic focus

 

 

To increase the percentage of revenue derived from investment income while remaining within acceptable investment risk profiles.

 

 

Total investment income, net of impairments and investment management fees, rose to $226.1 million compared to $175.1 million last year, an increase of 29.1 per cent. The $51.0 million improvement is primarily due to declining interest rates causing a higher than expected gain to the bond portfolio ($125.8 million). Increases were also realized in dividend income of $12.8 million offset by lower income from equities ($85.1 million) and real estate ($8.7 million). Please refer to Note 6 of the Condensed Financial Statements for a breakdown of investment income by type of investment. The Minister of Finance is responsible for investing the money that Manitoba Public Insurance sets aside for future claims payments and other liabilities. Investment income reduces rates that would otherwise be payable by policyholders. The total fair value of the Corporation’s investment portfolio was $2.6 billion at February 28, 2015, an increase of 6.4 per cent or $155.6 million from the previous year.

 

 

Basic’s share of corporate investment income was $188.4 million, net of impairments and investment management fees. This was an increase of $40.7 million or 27.6 per cent compared to last year, attributab

[Fatty Liver]

2.5 BILLION!!!  Thieving bastards didn't give me a nickel when the floor fell out of my 72 Corolla!