Obama Wants to Declare War on ISIS

[Rich]

BREAKING: US President Barack Obama is asking Congress to formally authorize war against ISIS, says they pose a "grave threat"

— Keith McCullough (@reporterKeith)

February 11, 2015

 

MORE: Obama would limit authorization to three years, with no restriction where U.S. forces could pursue the threat: http://t.co/r5l2Xjq0QS

— The Associated Press (@AP)

February 11, 2015

[17to85]

How do you declare war on a stateless entity?

[The Unknown Poster]

A little late in the game. But when a small country like Jordan makes you look silly I guess you have to get on board sooner or later.

 

From what I understand, the sticking point is he wants to close off the authorization for military action against Al-Qaeda and some in congress dont want to.  Plus, some will want a limitation against using ground forces.  The unfortunate thing is, its probably going to take ground forces to win this thing.

[The Unknown Poster]

How do you declare war on a stateless entity?

If I rememeber correctly, they had a war declaration against Al-Qaeda also and specified they could pursue military action against them in Iraq and "wherever they pose a risk".  

[Jpan85]

A modern military with a ground force will never wipe these guys out you maybe able to contain them but never get rid of the threat.

[The Unknown Poster]

A modern military with a ground force will never wipe these guys out you maybe able to contain them but never get rid of the threat.

Meh thats sort of a lame duck argument.  People said the same about AQ and they might "exist" but were decimated and their ability to commit massive terrorist attacks was all but destroyed.  ISIS will eventually suffer the same fate.  The nature of these groups is that you will always have crazy people who use the twisted ideology as an excuse to commit atrocious crimes (as we've seen in Canada).  But ISIS as an organization must be destroyed and can be destroyed.

 

ISIS goofed with the video of the soldier being burned to death.  It was such a "slickly" produced video designed to strike fear in their opponents.  Earlier in their 'war' that worked as the Iraqi army vastly out numbered ISIS but ran for the hills when ISIS came.  The fear and intimidation worked.  But that video has done the one thing they really didnt want - get an Islamic government determined to destroy for their own righteous reasons (not because the US asked them too).  Jordan is strongly supported by the US, UK and France but they are arguably taking the lead in the fight against ISIS now.

 

And suddenly, Obama is talking tough?  Welcome to the party Mr President.  The whole argument about ground troops is a tough one.  Isnt this what a ground force is for?  Personally, I'm surprised we havent been sending in "unofficial" ground forces (elite squads like the SEALS) for certain operations.

[Mark F]

USA has been bombing parts of the middle east continuously, since 1990.

 

 

Al Quaeda, was, created by the USA, starting with Carter, in Afganistan,

 

"Shortly before his untimely death, former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook told the House of Commons that “Al Qaeda” is not really a terrorist group but a database of international mujaheddin and arms smugglers used by the CIA and Saudis to funnel guerrillas, arms, and money into Soviet-occupied Afghanistan."

 

This is widely known and not really disputed anymore.

 

After the American military went into Afghanistan, in 2002, Al Quaeda was destroyed.

 

But then, for reasons unknown, the Americans invaded Iraq, where there was no Al Quaeda.  The ruthless Iraqi dictator Hussein, was their enemy, and was able to keep them out of that country. Americans Overthrew him, and allowed in "Al Quaeda in Iraq" The invasion is set to cost USA 6 trillion dollars, according to a nobel prize winning economist who analysed that issue.

 

some people, think that ISIL was created by Saudi Arabia.

 

One thing's for sure, It's been great time to be  in the arms business. 

[The Unknown Poster]

I dont think anyone doubts the past CIA connections.  But that point is also moot.  Loyalty and affiliations in the middle east change.

 

ISIS uses religion (and fear among other things) to manipulate the weak minded but when you read stories from former members and hostages they tell you there is nothing religious about them.  They dont believe in anything.

 

The US invading Iraq is an entirely other debate.  But rest assured, they were well within their rights to do so.  The only thing controversial about it was the limpdick UN being wishy washy on Saddam for years.

[Mark F]

. 

But rest assured, they were well within their rights to do so

 

 

 

edit

 

ok. 

[The Unknown Poster]

.

But rest assured, they were well within their rights to do so

edit

ok.

The original gulf war ended with a cease fire dependant on specific conditions being met. Those conditions were not met.

Don't get caught up in the WMD nonsense.

[SPuDS]

I sincerely believe that ISIS is nothing more then a front for massive illegal gun sales,drug sales, oil sales and human trafficking. I think they are borne out of a lawless place by European mercenaries or North American mercenaries with checkered pasts. I think they are attempting to hide behind religion to protect their identities and their actions. This caliphate will be a country/state where they can dodge jails and courts and live lives essentially like bandits...

[iso_55]

I think they're barbarians. And I'm not Don Cherry. 

[Mark F]

I sincerely believe that ISIS is nothing more then a front for massive illegal gun sales,drug sales, oil sales and human trafficking. I think they are borne out of a lawless place by European mercenaries or North American mercenaries with checkered pasts. I think they are attempting to hide behind religion to protect their identities and their actions. This caliphate will be a country/state where they can dodge jails and courts and live lives essentially like bandits...

 

yup

 

 interesting reading on an illegal arms merchant, the book "merchant of death" story of Viktor Bout is really good. Headquarters were Dubai,  a centre of all that you mention. 

[The Unknown Poster]

I sincerely believe that ISIS is nothing more then a front for massive illegal gun sales,drug sales, oil sales and human trafficking. I think they are borne out of a lawless place by European mercenaries or North American mercenaries with checkered pasts. I think they are attempting to hide behind religion to protect their identities and their actions. This caliphate will be a country/state where they can dodge jails and courts and live lives essentially like bandits...

I definitely think they arent really religious.  That is borne out with what former hostages and members say...they dont practice their religion.  It's made up BS to justify their actions.  Reports are they have been crucifying babies...I mean, WTF?

 

One thing that bugs me, I was listening to an "ISIS Expert" on the radio and he was saying how they are extremely well financed due to their oil sales and the radio host said well why doesnt the world just stop buying their oil?  And the expert said once the oil gets into "the world market" its difficult to know where it came from.  That sounds ludicrous to me.  That seems like an easy shaming opportunity...who in the hell is buying ISIS oil?

[iso_55]

 

I sincerely believe that ISIS is nothing more then a front for massive illegal gun sales,drug sales, oil sales and human trafficking. I think they are borne out of a lawless place by European mercenaries or North American mercenaries with checkered pasts. I think they are attempting to hide behind religion to protect their identities and their actions. This caliphate will be a country/state where they can dodge jails and courts and live lives essentially like bandits...

I definitely think they arent really religious.  That is borne out with what former hostages and members say...they dont practice their religion.  It's made up BS to justify their actions.  Reports are they have been crucifying babies...I mean, WTF?

 

One thing that bugs me, I was listening to an "ISIS Expert" on the radio and he was saying how they are extremely well financed due to their oil sales and the radio host said well why doesnt the world just stop buying their oil?  And the expert said once the oil gets into "the world market" its difficult to know where it came from.  That sounds ludicrous to me.  That seems like an easy shaming opportunity...who in the hell is buying ISIS oil?

 

China & North Korea. I imagine.

[SPuDS]

I sincerely believe that ISIS is nothing more then a front for massive illegal gun sales,drug sales, oil sales and human trafficking. I think they are borne out of a lawless place by European mercenaries or North American mercenaries with checkered pasts. I think they are attempting to hide behind religion to protect their identities and their actions. This caliphate will be a country/state where they can dodge jails and courts and live lives essentially like bandits...

I definitely think they arent really religious.  That is borne out with what former hostages and members say...they dont practice their religion.  It's made up BS to justify their actions.  Reports are they have been crucifying babies...I mean, WTF?

 

One thing that bugs me, I was listening to an "ISIS Expert" on the radio and he was saying how they are extremely well financed due to their oil sales and the radio host said well why doesnt the world just stop buying their oil?  And the expert said once the oil gets into "the world market" its difficult to know where it came from.  That sounds ludicrous to me.  That seems like an easy shaming opportunity...who in the hell is buying ISIS oil?

China & North Korea. I imagine.

Yup. I'd imagine both of those countries would have little issue with buying oil from ISIS.

[Mark F]

When it comes to money, there aren't many countries, or businesses, or individuals, that have much of an issue with anything.

[iso_55]

Well, we know Canada's oil is much "dirtier" than Nigeria. 

[Mark F]

guess I changed out the part of my comment you're probably replying to iso …. 

[blueandgoldguy]

Nouri-al-Maliki shares a large portion of the blame for the formation of ISIS.  Shortly after the US left Iraq, Maliki took it upon himself to arrest and isolate any politicians of Sunni descent.  Sunnis had no role or voice for that matter in the governance of Iraq.  Combine some of those marginalized Sunnis with some of the Baathist party members of the former Sadam regime who were refused any roles in  the new government and the scattered remnants of Al-Queda and you end up with ISIS.  If Maliki had been more inclusive of the Sunni population ISIS would not exist.  There would just be a few hundred battle-hardened Al-Queda left to deal with.  Maliki exacerbated the situation by having several hundred Sunni protesters killed as well.

 

Countries like the US and Canada are doing more than the minimum by bombing strategic locations like the artillery depots controlled by ISIS.  Anything involving boots on ground needs to be initiated by countries like Jordan and Turkey.  They are the neighbouring countries in the middle east that need to take the lead on this, not countries like Canada and the US that are half a world away.

 

Fortunately, the US government has so far refused any requests for US troops to enter the battlezone on foot.  Don't need to go there again after the disaster that was Iraq..both in lives lost and displaced and financially. Thankfully Republican warmongers like McCain, who seems to make it his everyday goal to request US involvement in some new overseas conflict, are not in charge.  At the moment it appears cooler head are prevailing. 

[Mark F]

Nouri-al-Maliki shares a large portion of the blame for the formation of ISIS.

 

 

 

Yes he does.

 

While he was in office, ethnic cleansing of sunni Muslims occurred in Bagdhad. The city, is now divided up into enclaves of sunni, shia muslims. And Christians? There is no safe place for them now in Iraq.

 

not to mention "Mahdi, the former Vice-President, (Iraq0 told me that almost two hundred and twenty billion dollars had been allocated to some six thousand projects for which little or no work has been done."

[New_Earth_Mud]

The Americans are stupid and had and have no clue what they are doing. They alone created this.

 

The Americans cant control their own country and have zero right to go tell others how to live. They brought out this war and now other country's are brought into it for the simple fact they try to help.

 

Now they want to sit back and say it up to the others in the region to control it?  It was under control before..  it was all nuts but it was controlled.

 

Now its still nuts....  And out of control and spread world wide.

 

The yanks are to blame and now need to fix it. 

[Mark F]

 It was under control before..  it was all nuts but it was controlled.

 

 

yes that is true. It is now a failed country.

[The Unknown Poster]

The Americans are stupid and had and have no clue what they are doing. They alone created this.

The Americans cant control their own country and have zero right to go tell others how to live. They brought out this war and now other country's are brought into it for the simple fact they try to help.

Now they want to sit back and say it up to the others in the region to control it? It was under control before.. it was all nuts but it was controlled.

Now its still nuts.... And out of control and spread world wide.

The yanks are to blame and now need to fix it.

Spare us the uninformed anti American nonsense.

[iso_55]

You think the Americans went into Iraq to get Al Qaeda? They went in so Bush could finish the job his dad couldn't. To Kill Hussein. Think that subject didn't come up over dinner at the Bush house for years after the war?.I can just see George Jr saying, "I'll get him for ya, Daddy. Count on it". Now that whole area is just totallly ****** up as Obama got the troops out with absolutely no thought or care what happened after that.  Obama is as bad as Bush Jr was. Both are total morons.