More problems at IGF?

[gbill2004]

Bottom line, the NDP made them hire local, you hire people without relevant experience issues like this pop up. Thanks dippers!

The general contractor, architect and engineering firm are all national companies.

Don't let reality get in the way of a good political discussion.

Exactly. Logic and facts aren't welcome on these forums. Speculation and rumors are where it's at.

Funny, I've never deleted a post because they contained logic and facts. I would say they are welcome.

I was joking. Guess that wasn't obvious.

[voodoochylde]

 

 

 

Bottom line, the NDP made them hire local, you hire people without relevant experience issues like this pop up. Thanks dippers!

The general contractor, architect and engineering firm are all national companies.

Don't let reality get in the way of a good political discussion.

Exactly. Logic and facts aren't welcome on these forums. Speculation and rumors are where it's at.

 

 

 

Without speculation and rumors .. places like this go away .. God bless the internets!

[bryan35]

Bottom line, the NDP made them hire local, you hire people without relevant experience issues like this pop up. Thanks dippers!

Ya thats the problem. A Mexican firm would have got it right. lol

[pigseye]

Two sides to every story, might want to wait hear them.

 

For sure - the Bomber brass should have known to catch rainwater in buckets and run out onto the street to dump it out.  Foolish of them to just "expect" drainage.

Just like they should have known enough to have the plumbing winterized....like I said wait for the whole story to come out. Suits are filed to preserve limitation dates on claims not always because someone screwed up.

[pigseye]

Bottom line, the NDP made them hire local, you hire people without relevant experience issues like this pop up. Thanks dippers!

The general contractor, architect and engineering firm are all national companies.

[Maudie fingerjammer]

Bottom line, the NDP made them hire local, you hire people without relevant experience issues like this pop up. Thanks dippers!

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Bombers had final say on the design...like the small concourse room. Build cheap you get cheap.

[DR. CFL]

Go figure Asper hires his guy to be the architect.....the guy has no clue about building a stadium....then Asper gets bought out for his plans.

Now they are suing his guy.......typical and wrong at so many levels.

[iso_55]

Im glad BBB is taking this measure.  We shouldnt have to keep eating these costs to fix issues that shouldnt have occured from the beginning.

 

On a side note, very disappointed with TSN1290 on this.  This is a major story.  CJOB broke into their regular coverage to do a quick story about it.  1290 was into their fourth hour of Jets coverage and it was the repeat hour.  I guess no one in the building able to cut in for five minutes.  And then when they do their sportscenter at 10:30am do you think they covered it?  Nope.  I guess thats a pre-tape too.  If you're the ALL SPORTS station in town I expect the best sports coverage.

Come now. 1290 is like the Fan 960 here in Calgary. Both claim to be all sports but they are shills for their NHL teams as they both have paid big bucks to be rightsholders.

[Goalie]

Love all the architects in here. Awesome

[iso_55]

No matter whatever your take this  is  just an incredibly sad state of affairs.  

[Tracker]

 

 

Bottom line, the NDP made them hire local, you hire people without relevant experience issues like this pop up. Thanks dippers!

The general contractor, architect and engineering firm are all national companies.

 

They are forced to hire unionized workers, regardless of who the best trade for the job may be.

 

Funny, I always thought that whether you are unionized or not, you still had to pass the same standards to be qualified as a journeyman.

Ooops. Sorry. More logic.

[Goalie]

It's sad that it was rushed. It's sad that SOD screwed up again. Whatever tho. Stadium is still fine it just needs some fixes much like a house that is built by somebody who don't have a clue. To those not in manitoba it's irrelevant cuz it ain't your money

[The Unknown Poster]

Full list:

(a) lack of handicap accessible design relating to door openers and at suite level;

( replacement of guard railings in seating areas;

© guard rails around roof top equipment lacking;

(d) insufficient field exiting;

(e) water infiltration into private suites;

(f) water infiltration from North and South video board steel structure;

(g) contractors’ construction deficiency list items not completed;

(h) East crawlspace not backfilled;

(i) gate canopy drainage issues;

(j) rainwater leader drainage piping connection failures;

(k) water migrating into the facility due to a compromised building envelope;

(l) water ponding on the North and South Concourse areas;

(m) extensive Concourse slab cracking;

(n) heating and insulation issues:

(i) inadequate design to maintain original design temperature of 10 degrees Celsius in suite levels year-round;

(ii) lack of thermal insulation, thermal break, and weather proofing of suite level;

(iii) lack of suitable thermal insulation throughout (Administrative Building north wall, Administrative Building Floor, Pinnacle Club);

(iv) lack of enclosure of the East crawlspace under the Administrative Building resulting in a cold floor slab throughwinter;

(v) lack of heat in all mechanical, sprinkler and electrical rooms that function through all four seasons;

(vi) lack of heat in concession area for cold weather operational use;

(vii) lack of weather stripping of all doors;

(viii) lack of heat tracing on piping exposed to freezing (sprinklers, water and drainage);

(ix) inadequate Administrative Building HVAC controls, air distribution, heat, and cooling;

(x) inadequate consideration of mechanical systems winterization design for entire facility;

(o) lack of structural design capacity of Concourse slabs to satisfy venue requirements for operational loading;

(p) lack of positive floor system drainage to internal floor drains (Training Room);

(q) imbedded stair nosings’ design/installation poorly resolved;

® poor coordination of building services - exit corridor in the basement required the addition of a rated ceiling;

(s) extensive sidewalk settlement around the perimeter of the facility;

(t) water in “dry” pits housing backwater valves causing rusting of valves;

(u) mould issues due to water migration into walls;

(v) dangerous ice accumulation on sunshades;

(w) no all-weather route past truck access to field due to inadequate clearance in original design;

(x) exterior finishes subject to vandalism damage;

(y) no access ladders to upper roof canopy hatches;

(z) exposed steel not painted or sealed;

(aa) sprinkler system design type for suite levels unsuitable due to lack of heat;

(bb) lack of fire proofing on the steel structure supporting the Administrative Building roof, South Patio and North Concessions;

(cc) inadequate entrance gate design;

(dd) no hose bibbs in seating sections for pressure washing seats;

(ee) no hose bibbs in landscaping areas;

(ff) no power provided for broadcast trucks;

(gg) inadequate design of domestic hot water boilers requiring early replacement;

(hh) no strainers provided over roof canopy drains and trench drains;

(ii) no internal barrier free route between upper level football offices and lower level football operations;

(jj) Commissary not located in proximity to event areas; no all-weather route between Commissary and event areas on east side of building;

(kk) inadequate storage in building and around site;

(ll) inadequate provision of service elevators;

(mm) weight restrictions on all Concourse levels due to slab design and composition. This limits weight and amount of product and weight that can be moved around stadium, a problem for moving kegs of beer for instance. Man lifts and equipment. are limited in their capacity;

(nn) no incoming internal material handling and storage area was provided;

(oo) poor layout of dock scissor lift controls; and

(pp) no barrier free route from parking to Administrative Building entrance;

(collectively the “Deficiencies”)

[iso_55]

Full list:

(a) lack of handicap accessible design relating to door openers and at suite level;

( replacement of guard railings in seating areas;

© guard rails around roof top equipment lacking;

(d) insufficient field exiting;

(e) water infiltration into private suites;

(f) water infiltration from North and South video board steel structure;

(g) contractors’ construction deficiency list items not completed;

(h) East crawlspace not backfilled;

(i) gate canopy drainage issues;

(j) rainwater leader drainage piping connection failures;

(k) water migrating into the facility due to a compromised building envelope;

(l) water ponding on the North and South Concourse areas;

(m) extensive Concourse slab cracking;

(n) heating and insulation issues:

(i) inadequate design to maintain original design temperature of 10 degrees Celsius in suite levels year-round;

(ii) lack of thermal insulation, thermal break, and weather proofing of suite level;

(iii) lack of suitable thermal insulation throughout (Administrative Building north wall, Administrative Building Floor, Pinnacle Club);

(iv) lack of enclosure of the East crawlspace under the Administrative Building resulting in a cold floor slab throughwinter;

(v) lack of heat in all mechanical, sprinkler and electrical rooms that function through all four seasons;

(vi) lack of heat in concession area for cold weather operational use;

(vii) lack of weather stripping of all doors;

(viii) lack of heat tracing on piping exposed to freezing (sprinklers, water and drainage);

(ix) inadequate Administrative Building HVAC controls, air distribution, heat, and cooling;

(x) inadequate consideration of mechanical systems winterization design for entire facility;

(o) lack of structural design capacity of Concourse slabs to satisfy venue requirements for operational loading;

(p) lack of positive floor system drainage to internal floor drains (Training Room);

(q) imbedded stair nosings’ design/installation poorly resolved;

® poor coordination of building services - exit corridor in the basement required the addition of a rated ceiling;

(s) extensive sidewalk settlement around the perimeter of the facility;

(t) water in “dry” pits housing backwater valves causing rusting of valves;

(u) mould issues due to water migration into walls;

(v) dangerous ice accumulation on sunshades;

(w) no all-weather route past truck access to field due to inadequate clearance in original design;

(x) exterior finishes subject to vandalism damage;

(y) no access ladders to upper roof canopy hatches;

(z) exposed steel not painted or sealed;

(aa) sprinkler system design type for suite levels unsuitable due to lack of heat;

(bb) lack of fire proofing on the steel structure supporting the Administrative Building roof, South Patio and North Concessions;

(cc) inadequate entrance gate design;

(dd) no hose bibbs in seating sections for pressure washing seats;

(ee) no hose bibbs in landscaping areas;

(ff) no power provided for broadcast trucks;

(gg) inadequate design of domestic hot water boilers requiring early replacement;

(hh) no strainers provided over roof canopy drains and trench drains;

(ii) no internal barrier free route between upper level football offices and lower level football operations;

(jj) Commissary not located in proximity to event areas; no all-weather route between Commissary and event areas on east side of building;

(kk) inadequate storage in building and around site;

(ll) inadequate provision of service elevators;

(mm) weight restrictions on all Concourse levels due to slab design and composition. This limits weight and amount of product and weight that can be moved around stadium, a problem for moving kegs of beer for instance. Man lifts and equipment. are limited in their capacity;

(nn) no incoming internal material handling and storage area was provided;

(oo) poor layout of dock scissor lift controls; and

(pp) no barrier free route from parking to Administrative Building entrance;

(collectively the “Deficiencies”)

How the **** could this happen?

[The Unknown Poster]

Well Ray Wan does a lot of work but he's criticised as unremarkable. He never did a sports project like this. He didn't have the expertise. I assumed he's engage the right experts but I guess not.

[Goalie]

Most of that is probably due to setting an unrealistic time frame for completion. Corners were cut. HGTV has shows about stuff like this always. Can't remember the name they used to describe those contractors tho

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Most of that is probably due to setting an unrealistic time frame for completion. Corners were cut. HGTV has shows about stuff like this always. Can't remember the name they used to describe those contractors tho

I think it's CONtractors.

[gbill2004]

Seems like this kind of stuff might be normal: http://therealdeal.com/blog/2009/09/08/mets-citi-field-faces-water-damage-faulty-wiring-in-jerry-seinfeld-s-luxury-suite/

[DR. CFL]

How does the timeframe have anything to do with a flawed design from the onset?

[GCn20]

 

 

 

Bottom line, the NDP made them hire local, you hire people without relevant experience issues like this pop up. Thanks dippers!

The general contractor, architect and engineering firm are all national companies.

 

They are forced to hire unionized workers, regardless of who the best trade for the job may be.

 

Funny, I always thought that whether you are unionized or not, you still had to pass the same standards to be qualified as a journeyman.

Ooops. Sorry. More logic.

 

 

Have to pass the same standards yes. Union labour is not unqualified labour. If you are going to make an argument against unionized labour it would be that it generally costs more and is less productive. If you are forced to hire unionized workers then you can only hire out of union shops. That takes many very good companies out of play as options for subcontracting. It narrows down and limits options and effects cost control. That's just straight up logic for you. When cost control is effected, so too will the final product.

[GCn20]

How does the timeframe have anything to do with a flawed design from the onset?

 

The timeframe was aggressive. It had nothing to do with design flaws. It may have contributed to some of the shoddy workmanship though.

[GCn20]

Bottom line, the NDP made them hire local, you hire people without relevant experience issues like this pop up. Thanks dippers!

 

I agree. Anytime only union shops can be utilized the more danger there is for cost overrun and poor workmanship through decreased competition and lack of option.

[Goalie]

How does the timeframe have anything to do with a flawed design from the onset?

 

Flawed designs? Maybe a bit with the water on the roof but... that's not even the main issue, the main issues are things like proper drainage, that's not a design flaw, that's a cut corners thing, not filling in the area with dirt, that's not a design flaw, that's a cut corners thing, concrete cracking in the concourse? hardly a design flaw, that's crappy workmanship. 

[Rich]

Full list:

(a) lack of handicap accessible design relating to door openers and at suite level;

( replacement of guard railings in seating areas;

© guard rails around roof top equipment lacking;

(d) insufficient field exiting;

(e) water infiltration into private suites;

(f) water infiltration from North and South video board steel structure;

(g) contractors’ construction deficiency list items not completed;

(h) East crawlspace not backfilled;

(i) gate canopy drainage issues;

(j) rainwater leader drainage piping connection failures;

(k) water migrating into the facility due to a compromised building envelope;

(l) water ponding on the North and South Concourse areas;

(m) extensive Concourse slab cracking;

(n) heating and insulation issues:

(i) inadequate design to maintain original design temperature of 10 degrees Celsius in suite levels year-round;

(ii) lack of thermal insulation, thermal break, and weather proofing of suite level;

(iii) lack of suitable thermal insulation throughout (Administrative Building north wall, Administrative Building Floor, Pinnacle Club);

(iv) lack of enclosure of the East crawlspace under the Administrative Building resulting in a cold floor slab throughwinter;

(v) lack of heat in all mechanical, sprinkler and electrical rooms that function through all four seasons;

(vi) lack of heat in concession area for cold weather operational use;

(vii) lack of weather stripping of all doors;

(viii) lack of heat tracing on piping exposed to freezing (sprinklers, water and drainage);

(ix) inadequate Administrative Building HVAC controls, air distribution, heat, and cooling;

(x) inadequate consideration of mechanical systems winterization design for entire facility;

(o) lack of structural design capacity of Concourse slabs to satisfy venue requirements for operational loading;

(p) lack of positive floor system drainage to internal floor drains (Training Room);

(q) imbedded stair nosings’ design/installation poorly resolved;

® poor coordination of building services - exit corridor in the basement required the addition of a rated ceiling;

(s) extensive sidewalk settlement around the perimeter of the facility;

(t) water in “dry” pits housing backwater valves causing rusting of valves;

(u) mould issues due to water migration into walls;

(v) dangerous ice accumulation on sunshades;

(w) no all-weather route past truck access to field due to inadequate clearance in original design;

(x) exterior finishes subject to vandalism damage;

(y) no access ladders to upper roof canopy hatches;

(z) exposed steel not painted or sealed;

(aa) sprinkler system design type for suite levels unsuitable due to lack of heat;

(bb) lack of fire proofing on the steel structure supporting the Administrative Building roof, South Patio and North Concessions;

(cc) inadequate entrance gate design;

(dd) no hose bibbs in seating sections for pressure washing seats;

(ee) no hose bibbs in landscaping areas;

(ff) no power provided for broadcast trucks;

(gg) inadequate design of domestic hot water boilers requiring early replacement;

(hh) no strainers provided over roof canopy drains and trench drains;

(ii) no internal barrier free route between upper level football offices and lower level football operations;

(jj) Commissary not located in proximity to event areas; no all-weather route between Commissary and event areas on east side of building;

(kk) inadequate storage in building and around site;

(ll) inadequate provision of service elevators;

(mm) weight restrictions on all Concourse levels due to slab design and composition. This limits weight and amount of product and weight that can be moved around stadium, a problem for moving kegs of beer for instance. Man lifts and equipment. are limited in their capacity;

(nn) no incoming internal material handling and storage area was provided;

(oo) poor layout of dock scissor lift controls; and

(pp) no barrier free route from parking to Administrative Building entrance;

(collectively the “Deficiencies”)

 

You read some of the old articles that were brought up yesterday on how design deficiencies were identified early, but the message from senior stakeholders was to keep going no matter what.  That they couldn't afford to wait to address those things due to the old stadium not being able to be serviceable for lengthy delays and the rising cost of steel and you think that maybe that wasn't all the contractors fault, that senior stakeholders signed off on some issues to save time.

 

Then you read that list, and a lot of it sounds like pure negligence.  You wonder how some of those issues even passed inspection.  

 

Either way, this is going to be a lengthy and ugly court battle, with a lot of he said she said and passing blame.