Manitoba NDP Leadership Convention

[Noeller]

Two things:

1. Alberta teachers have received wage increases of 5% per year in recently settled contracts (the past 3 - 5 years). In MB, we've never gotten more than 2 - 3 percent increases. Nurses in MB. took a wage freeze a few years ago. I realize I'm only looking at a couple of sectors, but I think the idea that MB. is union friendly while Alberta is not is somewhat misplaced.

2. Most people go to Alberta because the oil fields are the only place in Canada where you can earn good money without having a degree. Of course they could find employment at home, but nothing can compete with that oil field pay cheque. Seriously, if some one running a manufacturing business paid their employees oil field wages, they wouldn't be in business very long.

I'm extremely pro-Manitoba, but I'm just gonna point out that I'm not in any way related to the oil and gas industry, but my starting salary here was an increase of about 1.5x and has gone up regularly since. Housing costs in MB are comparable to here, yet pay hasnt gone up with it.

[max power]

Perhaps the reason Manitoba has worse infrastructure is…….

They didn't get the big money Alberta was fortunate to dig up.

that's a defeatist attitude. Manitoba could have worked to build up some type of industrial or commercial base, but instead the province has had a long tradition of socialism and anti business policies. High taxes and pro-union governments make Manitoba into what it is. There's resources in Manitoba too, but there isn't a lot of incentive for companies to base themselves in Manitoba.

So anti-business that we have one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country. It's just a fact of living here that there are more expenses and fewer resources than Alberta.

Manitoba certainly wasn't competitive with Alberta when the PCs were in change for a decade, so you can hardly blame pro-union or anti-business attitudes for anything.

a low unemployment rate perhaps because when people can't find a job in Manitoba they head out west to Alberta right? Not like this is the first NDP government that Manitoba has had you know, the provinces history stretches back a lot farther than you or I have been around for.

Don't forget we also have one of the highest percentage of government workers. But I guess to the NDP that is a good thing.

[max power]

So, who really did a worse job of governing in the last little while in their respective Provinces - the Conservatives in Alberta, or the NDP in Manitoba? Who had all the money and blew it all?

what a ridiculous statement to make. Alberta has seen it's population grow by something close to 1 million people in the last decade, you think it's cheap to build infrastructure to support that many new people? Especially without raising taxes? Give me the government who keeps taxes low rather than the one that raises taxes at the drop of a hat. Oil will bounce back and Alberta will be rolling in the money again within a few years, Manitoba is still going to be stuck with their ridiculously high tax rate in a few years though.

 

My my, touchy on such an innocent statement. Manitoba has worse infrastructure problems than Alta. has, and way less money to have spent on it.  Alta., with any kind of competent governing, should have quite the nest egg, even with a minimal Prov. tax, but they don't.

Even though my statement was tongue in cheek…it still stands.

So the question is, who's statement really is that ridiculous?

As an Albertan who has lived in calgary & been through the Klein cuts... Alberta by far. We've squandered tens of billions just since 2007. Our Conservative politicians out here are douchebags. Manitoba's problem has always been the NDP with its pro labour, high taxes & anti business government. There's plenty of mismanagement in Manitoba but not on the scale of Alberta.

Just to be clear, when you say "squandered tens of billions", you mean that the people of Alberta got to actually keep their own money? Because here in Manitoba when we talk about a government squandering billions it's when they take it from us through taxes and waste it on a hydro line that costs far, far more than it needs to be, for no good reason.

[Mark H.]

So, who really did a worse job of governing in the last little while in their respective Provinces - the Conservatives in Alberta, or the NDP in Manitoba? Who had all the money and blew it all?

what a ridiculous statement to make. Alberta has seen it's population grow by something close to 1 million people in the last decade, you think it's cheap to build infrastructure to support that many new people? Especially without raising taxes? Give me the government who keeps taxes low rather than the one that raises taxes at the drop of a hat. Oil will bounce back and Alberta will be rolling in the money again within a few years, Manitoba is still going to be stuck with their ridiculously high tax rate in a few years though.

My my, touchy on such an innocent statement. Manitoba has worse infrastructure problems than Alta. has, and way less money to have spent on it. Alta., with any kind of competent governing, should have quite the nest egg, even with a minimal Prov. tax, but they don't.

Even though my statement was tongue in cheek…it still stands.

So the question is, who's statement really is that ridiculous?

As an Albertan who has lived in calgary & been through the Klein cuts... Alberta by far. We've squandered tens of billions just since 2007. Our Conservative politicians out here are douchebags. Manitoba's problem has always been the NDP with its pro labour, high taxes & anti business government. There's plenty of mismanagement in Manitoba but not on the scale of Alberta.

Just to be clear, when you say "squandered tens of billions", you mean that the people of Alberta got to actually keep their own money? Because here in Manitoba when we talk about a government squandering billions it's when they take it from us through taxes and waste it on a hydro line that costs far, far more than it needs to be, for no good reason.

I don't understand why the Cons aren't going hard after the bipole 3 issue. In the last election they barely mentioned it.

[Mark H.]

Two things:

1. Alberta teachers have received wage increases of 5% per year in recently settled contracts (the past 3 - 5 years). In MB, we've never gotten more than 2 - 3 percent increases. Nurses in MB. took a wage freeze a few years ago. I realize I'm only looking at a couple of sectors, but I think the idea that MB. is union friendly while Alberta is not is somewhat misplaced.

2. Most people go to Alberta because the oil fields are the only place in Canada where you can earn good money without having a degree. Of course they could find employment at home, but nothing can compete with that oil field pay cheque. Seriously, if some one running a manufacturing business paid their employees oil field wages, they wouldn't be in business very long.

I'm extremely pro-Manitoba, but I'm just gonna point out that I'm not in any way related to the oil and gas industry, but my starting salary here was an increase of about 1.5x and has gone up regularly since. Housing costs in MB are comparable to here, yet pay hasnt gone up with it.

Spin off good sir. My salary could go over a 100 K in Alberta. Here you don't even make that with a masters.

[iso_55]

 

 

 

 

So, who really did a worse job of governing in the last little while in their respective Provinces - the Conservatives in Alberta, or the NDP in Manitoba? Who had all the money and blew it all?

what a ridiculous statement to make. Alberta has seen it's population grow by something close to 1 million people in the last decade, you think it's cheap to build infrastructure to support that many new people? Especially without raising taxes? Give me the government who keeps taxes low rather than the one that raises taxes at the drop of a hat. Oil will bounce back and Alberta will be rolling in the money again within a few years, Manitoba is still going to be stuck with their ridiculously high tax rate in a few years though.

 

My my, touchy on such an innocent statement. Manitoba has worse infrastructure problems than Alta. has, and way less money to have spent on it.  Alta., with any kind of competent governing, should have quite the nest egg, even with a minimal Prov. tax, but they don't.

Even though my statement was tongue in cheek…it still stands.

So the question is, who's statement really is that ridiculous?

As an Albertan who has lived in calgary & been through the Klein cuts... Alberta by far. We've squandered tens of billions just since 2007. Our Conservative politicians out here are douchebags. Manitoba's problem has always been the NDP with its pro labour, high taxes & anti business government. There's plenty of mismanagement in Manitoba but not on the scale of Alberta.

Just to be clear, when you say "squandered tens of billions", you mean that the people of Alberta got to actually keep their own money? Because here in Manitoba when we talk about a government squandering billions it's when they take it from us through taxes and waste it on a hydro line that costs far, far more than it needs to be, for no good reason.

 

Klein balanced the books. It took 2 Premiers after him to get us into huge debt again..... Politicians squandered the money.

[kelownabomberfan]

Sure sounds like somebody's bought into the political propaganda.

LOL - I think you need to look in the mirror Mr. Dee. You seem to be a pretty big apologist for the NDP. That being said, I don't want to make any enemies with political talk here, as I did enough of that on OB, and it's easy to let your emotions get the best of you on this topic.

I don't see how you can compare Alberta and Manitoba, extremely different situations and totally different economic factors governing each province. BC has some similarities to Manitoba in that we're stuck with an entrenched party that has won 4 elections and no matter how many dumb things they do, they keep winning too, because our NDP here is so weak and stupid that they couldn't win an election by acclamation. Normally I am ok with the NDP having no chance of winning as I think the NDP are awful and their ideologies are brain-dead, but in BC that has left us with an arrogant dictatorship. I don't know what you do with that, but it's not healthy for democracy. Just like in Alberta, I was hoping the Wild Rose would really shake up the Conservatives, and I think it did a bit, but not enough.

[17to85]

 

Sure sounds like somebody's bought into the political propaganda.

LOL - I think you need to look in the mirror Mr. Dee. You seem to be a pretty big apologist for the NDP. That being said, I don't want to make any enemies with political talk here, as I did enough of that on OB, and it's easy to let your emotions get the best of you on this topic.

I don't see how you can compare Alberta and Manitoba, extremely different situations and totally different economic factors governing each province. BC has some similarities to Manitoba in that we're stuck with an entrenched party that has won 4 elections and no matter how many dumb things they do, they keep winning too, because our NDP here is so weak and stupid that they couldn't win an election by acclamation. Normally I am ok with the NDP having no chance of winning as I think the NDP are awful and their ideologies are brain-dead, but in BC that has left us with an arrogant dictatorship. I don't know what you do with that, but it's not healthy for democracy. Just like in Alberta, I was hoping the Wild Rose would really shake up the Conservatives, and I think it did a bit, but not enough.

 

The biggest shame is that there is no competition anymore. whether or not they won the Wildrose did put a bit of fear into the PCs. One party systems are not good for anyone and that is something MB and AB share. The opposition is just so inept there's no threat of not holding power. I think our system really needs 3 strong parties in order to function at it's best. With only 2 legitimate options there becomes very little to keep a party on it's toes. 

[Mr Dee]

 

Sure sounds like somebody's bought into the political propaganda.

LOL - I think you need to look in the mirror Mr. Dee. You seem to be a pretty big apologist for the NDP. That being said, I don't want to make any enemies with political talk here, as I did enough of that on OB, and it's easy to let your emotions get the best of you on this topic.

I don't see how you can compare Alberta and Manitoba, extremely different situations and totally different economic factors governing each province. BC has some similarities to Manitoba in that we're stuck with an entrenched party that has won 4 elections and no matter how many dumb things they do, they keep winning too, because our NDP here is so weak and stupid that they couldn't win an election by acclamation. Normally I am ok with the NDP having no chance of winning as I think the NDP are awful and their ideologies are brain-dead, but in BC that has left us with an arrogant dictatorship. I don't know what you do with that, but it's not healthy for democracy. Just like in Alberta, I was hoping the Wild Rose would really shake up the Conservatives, and I think it did a bit, but not enough.

 

 

Actually, I consider myself to be apolitical, and it's just that I have heard the same renderings over and over from different people about the same things. One party are the villains, while the other party knows what to do. 

Fill in the correct party into what I said as it suits your needs, or your personal opinion.

The NDP, in Manitoba, are no worse or better than the Cons were in Mb, who were no better than the Liberals were in Federal politics who were no worse than the Cons. are now. 

It all boils down to timing, and what's going on around the Canadian economy at the time. Hey, if things are going well, the party in power is the way to go…until they're not.

Next up, and the cycle repeats itself.

 

You, yourself, have it in big time for the NDP, I don't. I don't have any political affiliation, it's just I don't like to hear the same old thing about the same old party, when really, when it comes right down to it….they're all the same…they're politicians.

[17to85]

 

 

Sure sounds like somebody's bought into the political propaganda.

LOL - I think you need to look in the mirror Mr. Dee. You seem to be a pretty big apologist for the NDP. That being said, I don't want to make any enemies with political talk here, as I did enough of that on OB, and it's easy to let your emotions get the best of you on this topic.

I don't see how you can compare Alberta and Manitoba, extremely different situations and totally different economic factors governing each province. BC has some similarities to Manitoba in that we're stuck with an entrenched party that has won 4 elections and no matter how many dumb things they do, they keep winning too, because our NDP here is so weak and stupid that they couldn't win an election by acclamation. Normally I am ok with the NDP having no chance of winning as I think the NDP are awful and their ideologies are brain-dead, but in BC that has left us with an arrogant dictatorship. I don't know what you do with that, but it's not healthy for democracy. Just like in Alberta, I was hoping the Wild Rose would really shake up the Conservatives, and I think it did a bit, but not enough.

 

 

Actually, I consider myself to be apolitical, and it's just that I have heard the same renderings over and over from different people about the same things. One party are the villains, while the other party knows what to do. 

Fill in the correct party into what I said as it suits your needs, or your personal opinion.

The NDP, in Manitoba, are no worse or better than the Cons were in Mb, who were no better than the Liberals were in Federal politics who were no worse than the Cons. are now. 

It all boils down to timing, and what's going on around the Canadian economy at the time. Hey, if things are going well, the party in power is the way to go…until they're not.

Next up, and the cycle repeats itself.

 

You, yourself, have it in big time for the NDP, I don't. I don't have any political affiliation, it's just I don't like to hear the same old thing about the same old party, when really, when it comes right down to it….they're all the same…they're politicians.

 

This I disagree with very much. No one is going to do anything too extreme, you won't get elected with extreme policies, but there are differences between the right and the left that should not be over looked. In particular when it comes to taxation which can impact economies.

[iso_55]

 

Sure sounds like somebody's bought into the political propaganda.

LOL - I think you need to look in the mirror Mr. Dee. You seem to be a pretty big apologist for the NDP. That being said, I don't want to make any enemies with political talk here, as I did enough of that on OB, and it's easy to let your emotions get the best of you on this topic.

I don't see how you can compare Alberta and Manitoba, extremely different situations and totally different economic factors governing each province. BC has some similarities to Manitoba in that we're stuck with an entrenched party that has won 4 elections and no matter how many dumb things they do, they keep winning too, because our NDP here is so weak and stupid that they couldn't win an election by acclamation. Normally I am ok with the NDP having no chance of winning as I think the NDP are awful and their ideologies are brain-dead, but in BC that has left us with an arrogant dictatorship. I don't know what you do with that, but it's not healthy for democracy. Just like in Alberta, I was hoping the Wild Rose would really shake up the Conservatives, and I think it did a bit, but not enough.

 

Conservatives ripped apart the Wild Rose. Now, who's to say more WR MLA's won't follow. I've learned that two conservative parties aren't good.

[Mr Dee]

This I disagree with very much. No one is going to do anything too extreme, you won't get elected with extreme policies, but there are differences between the right and the left that should not be over looked. In particular when it comes to taxation which can impact economies.

 

 

Of course, they have different policies according to their party's beliefs, that's undisputed. I didn't say all politicians have the same policy. I said all politicians are the same. There's a difference.

Maybe that's a good thing. Somebody has to do it.

Think of what it takes to be a politician…then tell me that they are selfless, in that they will always serve the people before they ensure they, and their parties, are not safe first.

There was a movie once, many years ago, called Dave, where there was a stand-in President, and he made policy decisions because they made sense, not because they were politically correct. He wasn't a politician. He wasn't the same.

And if you vote with me on this one, I will lower your taxes.

[iso_55]

You guys have a left wing dictatorship. We have a right wing dictatorship. In the end neither assholes on the opposite end of  the political spectrums can manage their province's economy.

[kelownabomberfan]

Actually, I consider myself to be apolitical, and it's just that I have heard the same renderings over and over from different people about the same things. One party are the villains, while the other party knows what to do.

I don't think I'll ever say that one party knows what to do while others don't. It's not that black and white. Right now I think people choose their parties not because what their party is doing is totally right, but because their party isn't going to screw everything up as badly as the other guys. The NDP definitely knows how to screw everything up, and it can take a long time to undo a lot of their stupid ****. We still here in BC are trying to fix education, after the NDP bent over for the teachers' union and just handed over control of class sizes to the BCTF. SOoooo stupid. And a total conflict of interest. What a bunch of imbeciles the NDP are.

The NDP, in Manitoba, are no worse or better than the Cons were in Mb,

LOL - yeah you are right, you aren't an apologist for the NDP...LOL

 

You, yourself, have it in big time for the NDP, I don't.

With darn good reason. I really don't like how the NDP bends over for the unions, though I understand it, as they are funded by the unions, just as the Conservatives are funded by business, and so it's not really cool how the Conservatives sometimes give too many breaks to business. It's a product of our system, that special interests control the game. And when the NDP and the unions control the game, bad things happen to the economy.

[Jaxon]

 

 

With darn good reason. I really don't like how the NDP bends over for the unions, though I understand it, as they are funded by the unions, just as the Conservatives are funded by business, and so it's not really cool how the Conservatives sometimes give too many breaks to business. It's a product of our system, that special interests control the game. And when the NDP and the unions control the game, bad things happen to the economy.

 

The Union control of the NDP is far more entrenched than the business influence on Conservatives.   Yes, there is some funding from businesses to the conservatives, but financing laws limit that influence, and businesses don't speak with one voice. 

 

The Unions have guaranteed votes at the NDP convention.  Un-elected by constituents, the unions control huge voting blocks.  No business nor business group has the same privilege at either the Conservative or Liberal conventions.   For this reason, the NDP really are the puppet that dances at the end of the Union strings.

[kelownabomberfan]

The Union control of the NDP is far more entrenched than the business influence on Conservatives.   Yes, there is some funding from businesses to the conservatives, but financing laws limit that influence, and businesses don't speak with one voice. 

 

The Unions have guaranteed votes at the NDP convention.  Un-elected by constituents, the unions control huge voting blocks.  No business nor business group has the same privilege at either the Conservative or Liberal conventions.   For this reason, the NDP really are the puppet that dances at the end of the Union strings.

Yes I totally agree. I also think that if he were alive today, Tommy Douglas would burst into tears if he saw what his NDP has become.