Alberta, Taxes, and Socialism

[Tracker]

Is it not correct in saying that the country everybody loves to use as an example because of the hundreds of billions they've saved from oil revenues does take care of its citizens from the cradle to the grave but it comes at a huge cost like income tax at 50% or higher? No wonder Norway can provide for their citizens & not touch oil revenues. Norwegians all pay for it. 

Yes, Norway does tax its citizens at a high rate, but Norweigians get free dental care, fee eye care (including glasses), free psychological care, and two years of free post-secondary education for those who qualify. Moreover, Norwegians rate themselves a the third-happiest people on Earth (the Danes were #1) and as a measure of the health of their society, when neo-Nazi Anders Brevik (who killed 77 people including children) appeared in court, families of the slain appeared in court to ask that Brevik be given psychiatric help rather than a lifetime behind bars. That is a mark of a humane society.  

Wealth does not equal happiness or mental health. There is evidence to the contrary.

[iso_55]

How many of us would give up half or more of their salary to be taken care of cradle to  grave? I might consider it. 

[Tracker]

How many of us would give up half or more of their salary to be taken care of cradle to  grave? I might consider it. 

If you are young, well-paid, healthy and do not run into one of life's bad surprises, you do not need to be looked after by anyone. However, almost all of us are one phone call away from poverty or tragedy. Taxes, if used wisely, are like buying insurance on you, your home or car- you pay the installments and gripe, but hope you never need to call on the benefits.

I would rather pay the taxes which subsidize those less fortunate and never draw on the payouts. Did you know that the rich in countries which have socialized medicine live longer than the equally rich in countries (like the US until lately) who do not? The difference is about 3 1/2 years, It would be safe to assume that the rich would have access to the same pay-for-service care in both cases yet the difference is there.

We are our brothers' keepers, even if they annoy the heck out of us.

[kelownabomberfan]

 

 

In these European countries, you not only have comprehensive health care, but in all but France, they have one-month vacations where the people get an extra month's pay during their vacations.

 

 

 

I always shake my head at people who think this is a "good" thing, and even more at people who think this is even remotely sustainable.  You can't keep an economy going paying people not to work.

[kelownabomberfan]

 

Yes, Norway does tax its citizens at a high rate, but Norweigians get free dental care, fee eye care (including glasses), free psychological care, and two years of free post-secondary education for those who qualify. Moreover, Norwegians rate themselves a the third-happiest people on Earth (the Danes were #1) and as a measure of the health of their society, when neo-Nazi Anders Brevik (who killed 77 people including children) appeared in court, families of the slain appeared in court to ask that Brevik be given psychiatric help rather than a lifetime behind bars. That is a mark of a humane society.  

 

Wealth does not equal happiness or mental health. There is evidence to the contrary.

 

 

And yet my buddy, who works for a Norwegian company, always has to bring suitcases with clothes and shoes back to the head office over there because the people ask him to, as their prices are so high they can't afford to buy new clothes and shoes.  Norway is ridiculously expensive, and needlessly so, because their VAT are so high.  It's just stupid.  People who always go on about how great the Scandinavian countries are, and how "happy" they are, really should go live there so that they get some perspective outside of the socialist propaganda they are being fed.

 

When my buddy got the job, the company in Norway sent over a Norwegian to supervise the set up of their branch office in Calgary.  At the end of his one year term, he called the office in Norway and told them to stick it, he was staying in Canada.  My buddy asked him why, and he said "Because here I can afford to buy a house and a car and a trailer and when I get my paycheque, there's still money left after taxes.  You guys are doing things right here."  So there you go.

[WBBFanWest]

 

 

Yes, Norway does tax its citizens at a high rate, but Norweigians get free dental care, fee eye care (including glasses), free psychological care, and two years of free post-secondary education for those who qualify. Moreover, Norwegians rate themselves a the third-happiest people on Earth (the Danes were #1) and as a measure of the health of their society, when neo-Nazi Anders Brevik (who killed 77 people including children) appeared in court, families of the slain appeared in court to ask that Brevik be given psychiatric help rather than a lifetime behind bars. That is a mark of a humane society.  

 

Wealth does not equal happiness or mental health. There is evidence to the contrary.

 

 

And yet my buddy, who works for a Norwegian company, always has to bring suitcases with clothes and shoes back to the head office over there because the people ask him to, as their prices are so high they can't afford to buy new clothes and shoes.  Norway is ridiculously expensive, and needlessly so.  People who always go on about how great the Scandinavian countries are, and how "happy" they are, really should go live there so that they get some perspective outside of the socialist propaganda you are being fed.

 

When my buddy got the job, the company in Norway sent over a Norwegian to supervise the set up of their branch office in Calgary.  At the end of his one year term, he called the office in Norway and told them to stick it, he was staying in Canada.  My buddy asked him why, and he said "Because here I can afford to buy a house and a car and a trailer and when I get my paycheque, there's still money left after taxes.  You guys are doing things right here."  So there you go.

 

Well, that's settled then because clearly, that one guy represents the entirety of the people of Norway.  So if I can find a Canadian who left Canada because he didn't like it here, that must mean that Canada's bad and some other country is "doing things right".

[Tracker]

 

 

 

In these European countries, you not only have comprehensive health care, but in all but France, they have one-month vacations where the people get an extra month's pay during their vacations.

 

 

 

I always shake my head at people who think this is a "good" thing, and even more at people who think this is even remotely sustainable.  You can't keep an economy going paying people not to work.

 

It may defy your logic but Germany has been the healthiest economy in at least Europe for the past 25 years, even with all the costs of integrating East Germany into their economy.

[Mr Dee]

What's the problem if a country can live in a different way and their economy can sustain it? If the people in that country are happy with the way they are doing it, and things are going well, then good for them. 

I think we all can learn something in the way other people do things.

Let's face it, if it's a good idea, who cares if it was thought of by a Con., or a Liberal, or even (gasp) a Socialist.

[The Unknown Poster]

I dont know.  Arent we moving to an unsustainable way of living now?  How many kids live at home til they're 30?  How many parents are giving their kids money to buy their first home?  Thats all fine but are the kids of today who cant afford to live and cant afford their own home going to be in the same position as their parents and be able to support their own children?  What happens then?

[Bigblue204]

I dont know.  Arent we moving to an unsustainable way of living now?  How many kids live at home til they're 30?  How many parents are giving their kids money to buy their first home?  Thats all fine but are the kids of today who cant afford to live and cant afford their own home going to be in the same position as their parents and be able to support their own children?  What happens then?

 

Moving to an unsustainable way of living? lol where are you living? We are well past that point now. Unsustainable, bordering on suicidal is more like it.

[IC Khari]

[The Unknown Poster]

 

I dont know.  Arent we moving to an unsustainable way of living now?  How many kids live at home til they're 30?  How many parents are giving their kids money to buy their first home?  Thats all fine but are the kids of today who cant afford to live and cant afford their own home going to be in the same position as their parents and be able to support their own children?  What happens then?

 

Moving to an unsustainable way of living? lol where are you living? We are well past that point now. Unsustainable, bordering on suicidal is more like it.

 

I work.  Pay for my own car and home and trips.  My way of living is sustainable.  I have a Pension Plan and contribute to RSP's.  My parents, in retirement, are probably much better off than my plan seems to be but you never know. 

[kelownabomberfan]

 

It may defy your logic but Germany has been the healthiest economy in at least Europe for the past 25 years, even with all the costs of integrating East Germany into their economy.

 

 

 

 

When you are competing against Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal you really aren't saying much by saying you have the healthiest economy in Europe.  That's like saying that you are the best hockey player in Equador.  I don't get the Germans though, they bust their butts and pay all of Europe's bills just so Greece can elect a nutbar leftist who tells them that he won't pay back all the money they loaned him.  Brilliant-  don't like the fact that you have debt?  Just vote it away!

[kelownabomberfan]

 

 

Well, that's settled then because clearly, that one guy represents the entirety of the people of Norway.  So if I can find a Canadian who left Canada because he didn't like it here, that must mean that Canada's bad and some other country is "doing things right".

 

 

LOL - well I guess I should have prefaced the story with the fact that you could take it or leave it, or even worse, make a smart-arsed comment instead.   Look - I see tons of propaganda in the media about how Norway is better than Canada because they tax the living **** out of everyone and everything, and I just don't buy it.  That's not a society I want to live in, to be sure, and I don't like how that kind of society stifles all independent thought and innovation.  I saw in one media report that 50% of Norway's population is on some kind of government subsistence right now, thanks to their incredibly generous social programs.  That's not "healthy" in my view, and it is setting up that country for a big fall down the road.

 

The point of my story about the Norwegian who wanted to stay in Canada was simple.  Our society appeals to people who have an instinct to take care of themselves.  Norway's appeals to people who want to suck on a giant government nipple.  To each their own.

 

The one thing I know is that you really have to travel around the world to see what works and what doesn't, and how other societies do things.  I really like Australia, having spent a lot of time there.  They are very similar to us, only their country is way warmer.  They do a lot of things like we do, only some things I think they do better, such as health care.  Anyway, just my two cents - take it or leave it!

[Jpan85]

Australia May have even greater vacation time requirements than France. Post secondary education also is basically free.

[kelownabomberfan]

What's the problem if a country can live in a different way and their economy can sustain it? If the people in that country are happy with the way they are doing it, and things are going well, then good for them. 

I think we all can learn something in the way other people do things.

Let's face it, if it's a good idea, who cares if it was thought of by a Con., or a Liberal, or even (gasp) a Socialist.

 

I agree.  Though the day a socialist teaches me anything is the day that pigs actually fly.

[kelownabomberfan]

Australia May have even greater vacation time requirements than France. Post secondary education also is basically free.

 

I don't think so re the vacation time requirements but I'm not sure.  I do know when I worked there that no one paid me to go on vacation - that has to be a purely French "innovation".

[Jpan85]

Looked it up 20 days paid vacation plus 8 national holidays.

[kelownabomberfan]

Looked it up 20 days paid vacation plus 8 national holidays.

 

So that's greater than France? 

 

Here's a great article on Norway I found.

 

http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/why-norway-is-a-bs-argument-for-higher-taxes-8235/

Not to mention, taxes have really driven up the cost of living. It is no coincidence that Norway is simultaneously the most heavily taxed AND most expensive country in the world.

Because of this, Norwegians have limited after-tax discretionary spending cash. Sure they have ‘free’ healthcare, but when dinner for two costs an arm and a leg, people scale back their activities.

This is by design. In keeping people at the same level, Norwegian society has lowered the bar for everyone. There is limited economic freedom to achieve more.

Sure, the system gives them lots of leisure time to enjoy… but this is not necessarily a choice they make freely, rather the only choice they have.

Now, even if this lack of economic freedom seems a reasonable price to pay for national healthcare… even if tamed aspirations and an uninspired career are valid trade-offs for more leisure and less hard work… Norway is not a replicable model.

 

 

Just one guy's opinion.  Take it or leave it.

 

[Jpan85]

France gets 3 more days

[Noeller]

Could probably move this to Gen Forum, eh?

[gbill2004]

Could probably move this to Gen Forum, eh?

Exactly what I was thinking. Move the last couple pages to the general forum.

[SPuDS]

Could probably move this to Gen Forum, eh?

.......!

Oh suuuure, when it's about rose country it's all talky talk and happy.. Go international and now it's gen pop time..

Racist!

[17to85]

There is a fine line to balance between taxes and a social safety net. The bottom line is that I don't trust self serving politicians in this country enough to want them to take that much in taxes from me. 

[kelownabomberfan]

There is a fine line to balance between taxes and a social safety net. The bottom line is that I don't trust self serving politicians in this country enough to want them to take that much in taxes from me. 

 

I agree.  I totally get that paying taxes is important.  I've been to enough ****-hole countries where no one pays taxes, and the rich crush the poor under their heel like they are just maggots.  I also don't like the engineered societies like Sweden and Norway where all incentive is taken away to better yourself.  That doesn't work either.