In the neighbourhood

[bigg jay]

I ended up paying the full amount.  I didn't really have an excuse (i was leaving the school & about enter a 60 zone so i guess I didn't wait long enough to speed up) but I just wanted to say my piece.  The crown was a bit of a d-bag (maybe cause I made him actually do his job since I was the only one who didn't take the deal?)  but otherwise it was fine, I was only there for a couple hours at most.  

[The Unknown Poster]

2 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

I ended up paying the full amount.  I didn't really have an excuse (i was leaving the school & about enter a 60 zone so i guess I didn't wait long enough to speed up) but I just wanted to say my piece.  The crown was a bit of a d-bag (maybe cause I made him actually do his job since I was the only one who didn't take the deal?)  but otherwise it was fine, I was only there for a couple hours at most.  

Yeah Ill have to scope out the area.  Its a shame it was not the adjoining street as I know its improperly marked.  My buddy plead guilty but asked for a reduction and was granted but thats not really my point.  I object to the whole thing.  I can afford the ticket.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Knowing WPG history, don't pay it. They'll cancel it in a couple years +

 

Again like i said it should only be enforced at certain times, certainly not u to 530 when most people out at 3-330

Edited June 29, 2016 by FrostyWinnipeg

[The Unknown Poster]

4 minutes ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

Knowing WPG history, don't pay it. They'll cancel it in a couple years +

 

Again like i said it should only be enforced at certain times, certainly not u to 530 when most people out at 3-330

I agree.  The 3:30-5:30 seems so silly.  It doesnt take two hours for kids to get 20 feet from the school.  And the excuse will be something to do with after school programs.  But there are certainly evening events, sports etc that go on beyond 5:30.  The real reason is because most people would instinctively slow down around kids.  And then the city wouldnt get money.  But 4:30-5:30 when most school zones are devoid of kids, they catch people. 

The old law was better.  If there are kids, slow down.  if there are issues with reckless driving, put a black & white in the area to ticket the offenders.

[Goldkobra]

there is some, somewhat, relevant precedent for tickets being over turned in construction zones when no workers were present. I seem to recall reading about people being ticketed on Sundays and holidays and judges throwing them out. 

 

[The Unknown Poster]

1 hour ago, Goldkobra said:

there is some, somewhat, relevant precedent for tickets being over turned in construction zones when no workers were present. I seem to recall reading about people being ticketed on Sundays and holidays and judges throwing them out. 

 

Good. Should be the same with no kids presents. Should I not slow down when a soccer game lets out at 7pm and kids are streaming across the street?  Ofcourse I should. And if no kids are anywhere in the vicinity then why is some jackass being paid to nab drivers for doing something that isn't unsafe in the name of safety?

[Taynted_Fayth]

kids still play at the playgrounds well beyond school hours.  bitching about slowing down where kids are likely present is ridiculous. safety first.  if you cant handle slowing down,  find an alternate route.  I try to avoid school zones myself if i can because I dont like to slow down,  but if i need to go thru one it doesnt bother me to reduce speed for a block.

someone on 92citifm called in a week or 2 ago bitching about people going 30 when you can cheat and go 40. there was a lot of backlash,  so sounds like a lot of people support the current regulations

 

[Brandon]

2 hours ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

kids still play at the playgrounds well beyond school hours.

I drive around 3 - 4 school zones on my way home every day from work between 4 and 5.   I barely if ever see any kids out playing.   The only kids playing in playgrounds are usually toddlers accompanied by their parents.

I don't think I've ever seen a kid cross the street during those times come to think of it?  They could easily cut it back to 4:30.   5:30 is absolutely ridiculous... what kid stays at school for 2 hours outside without going home?

 

[Taynted_Fayth]

Why take the chance. Some schools along major routes dont require you to slow down to 30 such as archwood school on archibald, but an area like autumnwood and cottonwood in windsor park has a highschool, elementary school and daycare within a block of each other. At any given time u have kids around. Theres not really much of an argument as to why u cant slow down for 1 block. What does the extra 20 clicks save u 20 seconds? 

[The Unknown Poster]

11 hours ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

kids still play at the playgrounds well beyond school hours.  bitching about slowing down where kids are likely present is ridiculous. safety first.  if you cant handle slowing down,  find an alternate route.  I try to avoid school zones myself if i can because I dont like to slow down,  but if i need to go thru one it doesnt bother me to reduce speed for a block.

someone on 92citifm called in a week or 2 ago bitching about people going 30 when you can cheat and go 40. there was a lot of backlash,  so sounds like a lot of people support the current regulations

 

That's the point.  The silly regulations dont address ACTUAL safety.  They address "best chance to generate revenue".  Much like doing photo enforcement at construction zones where there are no workers or road impediments werent about safety, but about revenue.  I know people on Kenaston who were irate because the construction zone signs were set up well beyond the actual construction zone and thats where the photo trucks were...because its not about safety, its about generating the most revenue.

There have been stories about declining photo enforcement revenue and how its hurting the police budget.  In regards to school zones, firstly, there was never a major problem.  Secondly, for specific areas where there was a problem, you have police doing enforcement.  Not this blanket nonsense with a guy in a photo truck at 5:25pm when the area is abandoned.  Meanwhile, at 6:00pm a kids soccer game or school event starts and there is no enforcement.  I guess we dont care about those kids. 

Its not about safety.  And thats why I dont support it.  There are more efficient ways to enforce laws for safety reasons.

My understanding when I got my license was that during school zones there was a lower speed limit when children were present.  This wasnt posted.  The school zone signs were posted to warn you that you were in a school zone and should slow down when kids were present.  It worked just fine.  If 1000 cars handle this and 1 car speeds, go take down that 1 car, not the other 999.  But they need the 999 to pay for enforcement for that 1.  Ridiculous.

[Rich]

My understanding was always that when sign posts a reduced speed limit during specific times, the speed limit during those times is reduced. 

I’ve never heard of only going slower if there are kids present.  You don’t always see the kids, so that is why you slow down pro-actively.

Regardless, I agree a lot of the enforcement the city does is to generate revenue.

However, if they stop doing this, the alternative is to cut police services or increase taxes.  If there is less money going in, something has to give.

I have gotten the odd ticket in my years of driving (speeding, red light, school zone), but it is rare for me.

Yes it is frustrating when it happens, but at least I have some degree of control on whether or not I have to pay those (I can be diligent in following the traffic laws), as opposed to raising taxes.

Call it a stupid tax, because I feel very stupid when I do get a ticket, as it is completely avoidable.

 

[The Unknown Poster]

Just now, Rich said:

My understanding was always that when sign posts a reduced speed limit during specific times, the speed limit during those times is reduced. 

 

I’ve never heard of only going slower if there are kids present.  You don’t always see the kids, so that is why you slow down pro-actively.

 

Regardless, I agree a lot of the enforcement the city does is to generate revenue.

 

However, if they stop doing this, the alternative is to cut police services or increase taxes.  If there is less money going in, something has to give.

 

I have gotten the odd ticket in my years of driving (speeding, red light, school zone), but it is rare for me.

 

Yes it is frustrating when it happens, but at least I have some degree of control on whether or not I have to pay those (I can be diligent in following the traffic laws), as opposed to raising taxes.

 

Call it a stupid tax, because I feel very stupid when I do get a ticket, as it is completely avoidable.

 

 

 

My explanation could be wrong but I was always told (prior to this stupid school zone law) that school zones were marked to warn motorists to slow down when children were present.  Maybe it was urban legend that it was a law.  Maybe it was true.  Maybe we dont know because in the history of cars and school zones it was never an issue.  Every so often you'd see a police car in a school zone when school was letting out, checking for reckless driving.  And oddly, that police car never hung around until 5:30.

It was fixing a problem that didnt exist. 

I dont care one iota about the police budget if it requires bogus enforcement.  They can cut officer salaries and OT.  The job of the police and laws should not be to generate revenue.  When their stated ideals is they hope no one ever gets a ticket, which we know is false, its all bogus.  Imagine if no one ever got a ticket and they still had to pay for the enforcement program.  Its ridiculous.

I've received a few tickets in my years of driving...not many.  Paid them all.  Didnt complain when it was my fault.  I dont care that its me getting caught this time.  The enforcement is bogus.  Period.  The police should not be tax collectors.

[Rich]

3 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

My explanation could be wrong but I was always told (prior to this stupid school zone law) that school zones were marked to warn motorists to slow down when children were present.  Maybe it was urban legend that it was a law.  Maybe it was true.  Maybe we dont know because in the history of cars and school zones it was never an issue.  Every so often you'd see a police car in a school zone when school was letting out, checking for reckless driving.  And oddly, that police car never hung around until 5:30.

It was fixing a problem that didnt exist. 

I dont care one iota about the police budget if it requires bogus enforcement.  They can cut officer salaries and OT.  The job of the police and laws should not be to generate revenue.  When their stated ideals is they hope no one ever gets a ticket, which we know is false, its all bogus.  Imagine if no one ever got a ticket and they still had to pay for the enforcement program.  Its ridiculous.

I've received a few tickets in my years of driving...not many.  Paid them all.  Didnt complain when it was my fault.  I dont care that its me getting caught this time.  The enforcement is bogus.  Period.  The police should not be tax collectors.

I still don't think it is bogus enforcement when the signs clearly indicate the hours the school zone is in effect.  If you don't agree with the law, then it is a bogus law.  But it isn't the police that make the law.  They just decide how to enforce them.  And they enforce them in such a way to bring in the most revenue, or where is the most problems.

Either way, here is good news for you.  Tickets given out in school zones is way down this year, so they will be re-deploying staff elsewhere to make themselves more money.  Or, most people now know to slow down in school zones, so our kids our safer.  Or it lies somewhere in between those two.

http://www.metronews.ca/news/winnipeg/2016/06/24/winnipeggers-speeding-less-in-school-zones.html

 

Quote

The number of speeding tickets handed out in school zones has fallen—and it might be because enforcement is “working.”

“It would seem the evidence is showing it is driver behaviour that is changing in the school zones,” said Coun. Scott Gillingham after receiving a report on ticket revenue at the finance committee meeting, Friday.

“That, ultimately, is what we wanted, because it’s a matter of safety.”

In March 2016 police issued 2,763 tickets in school zones—compared to 5,988 in March 2015.

Similar reductions were seen throughout the first quarter of 2016, while the number of tickets declined by more 1,170.

When these numbers first came before the police board in early May, Gillingham was curious whether it was enforcement increasing that scared drivers into slowing down, or if a few years of enforcement had corrected driver behaviour.

Police representatives told the finance committee Friday that as enforcement hasn’t increased, and overtime costs for officers is actually 8.4 per cent lower so far this year compared to the first quarter of 2015, it’s unlikely that police presence drove the decline in tickets issued.

They said infractions are trending downward, and they expect that trend to continue.

If it does, Gillingham said it could affect how speed enforcement is carried out, and maybe even shift the police’s budget priorities.

“That’s something they’ll always have to manage—both revenues and expenses—and adjust accordingly,” Gillingham said. “The goal at the end of the year… is that a department such as the Winnipeg Police Service comes in, or within the budget.”

Determinations for enforcement staffing are based on numbers of tickets issued in past years.

“(They’ll) take a look at what the service is seeing in tickets issued in previous years and the revenue that comes from that,” Gillingham explained. “When those numbers, either the revenue side or the expense side, go up or down, adjustments have to be made accordingly.”

He added that as it’s only the first quarter of 2016 that police currently have data for, the next few reports will be more indicative of whether the driver-behaviour adjustment is a real trend or not in the city of Winnipeg. 

 

[The Unknown Poster]

People dont slow down in school zones so our kids are safer.  Thats the dumbest thing I've ever heard.  They slow down out of fear of getting an illegitimate ticket.  When you slow down at 5pm in a school zone that has nary a child for miles, is that making your kids safer?  No.  Not at all.

Reduction in tickets handed out is not proof of safety or that drivers are driving more responsibly.  If they put up a sign and said a small stretch of Pembina HWY was not 40KM/H and enforced it for 5 years, people would slow down.  It wouldnt make it relevant.  It just means people dont want bogus tickets.

Gord Steeves knew this to be true.  He admitted it was not about safety.  We all know it.  Which makes the entire program illegitimate.  I love hearing stories of tickets being thrown out of court.  I love that it costs the government money.  And I hope that continues until they realise police arent tax collectors and the public shouldnt be screwed.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Speed bumps in mall lots might be worse.

[Brandon]

11 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

PGord Steeves knew this to be true.  He admitted it was not about safety.  We all know it.  Which makes the entire program illegitimate.  

My favorite is when Wise Up Winnipeg got in trouble because they held up signs saying "Photo Radar Ahead Slow Down".   I love how they were told to stop doing this....  wouldn't you think that if the point is about safety they would encourage people to hold up signs and alarm drivers to slow down?

It's all a crock and it's a huge money maker so they'll never stop.

 

Edited July 1, 2016 by Brandon

[FrostyWinnipeg]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

My favorite is when Wise Up Winnipeg got in trouble because they held up signs saying "Photo Radar Ahead Slow Down".   I love how they were told to stop doing this....

Does not the city have the same signs?

[Brandon]

9 hours ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

Does not the city have the same signs?

 

They do not have signs saying "Photo Radar ahead slow down". 

Usually they place photo radar in strategic spots in which the odds of them catching more speeders is higher...  rather then spots where more likely pedestrians would be crossing the street.  

 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

2 hours ago, Brandon said:

 

They do not have signs saying "Photo Radar ahead slow down".

Must be a different sign on Archibald in a different city.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.8722746,-97.0937769,3a,15y,207.5h,91.45t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCAosnKCuP5MBEzXBQIfIpw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1