Assimilation (We Are Borg?)

[WBBFanWest]

 

Yep, sorry Zontar, not to pile on but... you clearly don't know what you're talking about in this instance. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just thought "Schools = Good".

You know what,I'll take a stand and say residential schools were a not terrible idea that was just handled really poorly. Should a just assimilated everyone from the start then there'd be a lot less problems with reserves

 

Clearly, you're not too familiar with the stated aim of the Residential Schools either.  Their primary purpose was to eradicate First Nations culture, to get rid of "indians" once and for all.  Explain to me how that can ever be "not a terrible idea"?

[pigseye]

This stuff was all in the treaties that were signed, in order to get your 50 acres of land, you had to be educated and know how to farm it. Shouldn't have signed the treaty, should have just had a massive war like in the USA and basically ended up dead or assimilated like them, which is the better choice? The world is a very different place 120 years ago, people don't understand that.

[Noeller]

aaaaand it's officially time to lock up this thread and throw away the key, folks...

[Tracker]

Not to excuse the horrors of the resedential schools here in Canada, but there are other examples of institutional abuse- google "The Maggies"  or "the Magdalene laundries" for another eye opener. And that is not even bringing up the butterbox babies or the eradication of Liberation theology.

[17to85]

Yep, sorry Zontar, not to pile on but... you clearly don't know what you're talking about in this instance. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just thought "Schools = Good".

You know what,I'll take a stand and say residential schools were a not terrible idea that was just handled really poorly. Should a just assimilated everyone from the start then there'd be a lot less problems with reserves

Clearly, you're not too familiar with the stated aim of the Residential Schools either.  Their primary purpose was to eradicate First Nations culture, to get rid of "indians" once and for all.  Explain to me how that can ever be "not a terrible idea"?

Because assimilation is not a bad thing. Could have had just a whole bunch of Canadians rather than the government protected racism that currently exists. Signing treaties hundreds of years ago was an easy solution at the time but they have long lasting negative effects that manifest themselves in this day and age

[WBBFanWest]

This stuff was all in the treaties that were signed, in order to get your 50 acres of land, you had to be educated and know how to farm it. Shouldn't have signed the treaty, should have just had a massive war like in the USA and basically ended up dead or assimilated like them, which is the better choice? The world is a very different place 120 years ago, people don't understand that.

Some, it would seem, don't understand what was in the treaties either.  You might want to educate yourself a bit.

[pigseye]

This stuff was all in the treaties that were signed, in order to get your 50 acres of land, you had to be educated and know how to farm it. Shouldn't have signed the treaty, should have just had a massive war like in the USA and basically ended up dead or assimilated like them, which is the better choice? The world is a very different place 120 years ago, people don't understand that.

Some, it would seem, don't understand what was in the treaties either.  You might want to educate yourself a bit.

Considering it spawned it's own branch of law, I'm not going to argue with you, that is the simplest of understanding.

[WBBFanWest]

 

 

 

Yep, sorry Zontar, not to pile on but... you clearly don't know what you're talking about in this instance. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just thought "Schools = Good".

You know what,I'll take a stand and say residential schools were a not terrible idea that was just handled really poorly. Should a just assimilated everyone from the start then there'd be a lot less problems with reserves

Clearly, you're not too familiar with the stated aim of the Residential Schools either.  Their primary purpose was to eradicate First Nations culture, to get rid of "indians" once and for all.  Explain to me how that can ever be "not a terrible idea"?

Because assimilation is not a bad thing. Could have had just a whole bunch of Canadians rather than the government protected racism that currently exists. Signing treaties hundreds of years ago was an easy solution at the time but they have long lasting negative effects that manifest themselves in this day and age

 

Ah yes, assimilation.  Not sure how you assimilate a people that were seen as inferior in virtually every way possible.  Assimilation was never the goal, because no one of that day would have ever considered First Nations people as equals, no matter how much education they had.  They would simply become "better behaved savages".  That's not assimilation, it's something very different.

[pigseye]

Here's a thought.  If you think "cowboy church" is silly, don't go.  If you think that regular church is silly, don't go.  But judge not...

 

I wonder how many folks setting up these churches share the same "to each their own" attitude as you?

 

Call up a cowboy church and ask if they perform gay marriages? I have a pretty good idea what the answer will be...

 

WTF does that have to do with anything?

Call up a Chinese restaurant and ask them if they do fondue, if they don't should they be ridiculed on a football forum?

 

Who's ridiculing? 

 

I think organized religion has done far more "evil" in the past 2000 years than it's done good. And the more extreme/peculiar the religion, the more hateful and intolerant they tend to be. 

 

That's my opinion, expressed respectfully on a football forum. 

 

Enjoy your Chinese food.

I am a regular church goer and can readily concede that religions can do and have done wonderful things for humanity. That said, it has been reported that there have been more killing over religious differences (at least that was the excuse) than any other reason.

About 20 years ago, the chief theologian for the Catholic church (Hans Kung) wondered out loud in an interview whether mankind would not have been better off without organized religion. Within 24 hours of the airing of the interview, he was demoted to a small parrish in France.

Religion is not the problem. It happens when politics and religion get into bed together.

 

 

QFT. Unfortunately since the dark ages that has almost exclusively been the case. Even in the recent history of Canada, atrocities such as Residential schools for natives are living proof that politics and religion are a terrible mix.

What about Communism, the Holocaust or Ethnic Cleansing, none have anything to do with religion, it's always about politics.

[Tracker]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's a thought.  If you think "cowboy church" is silly, don't go.  If you think that regular church is silly, don't go.  But judge not...

 

I wonder how many folks setting up these churches share the same "to each their own" attitude as you?

 

Call up a cowboy church and ask if they perform gay marriages? I have a pretty good idea what the answer will be...

 

 

WTF does that have to do with anything?

Call up a Chinese restaurant and ask them if they do fondue, if they don't should they be ridiculed on a football forum?

 

 

Who's ridiculing? 

 

I think organized religion has done far more "evil" in the past 2000 years than it's done good. And the more extreme/peculiar the religion, the more hateful and intolerant they tend to be. 

 

That's my opinion, expressed respectfully on a football forum. 

 

Enjoy your Chinese food.

 

I am a regular church goer and can readily concede that religions can do and have done wonderful things for humanity. That said, it has been reported that there have been more killing over religious differences (at least that was the excuse) than any other reason.

About 20 years ago, the chief theologian for the Catholic church (Hans Kung) wondered out loud in an interview whether mankind would not have been better off without organized religion. Within 24 hours of the airing of the interview, he was demoted to a small parrish in France.

Religion is not the problem. It happens when politics and religion get into bed together.

 

 

 

QFT. Unfortunately since the dark ages that has almost exclusively been the case. Even in the recent history of Canada, atrocities such as Residential schools for natives are living proof that politics and religion are a terrible mix.

 

What about Communism, the Holocaust or Ethnic Cleansing, none have anything to do with religion, it's always about politics.

 

Ethnic cleansing frequently has to do with religion- see the Balkans and the current conflict in Palestine. It all comes down to tribalism- "us" and "other". The point is that whenever religion and politics get together, it frequently comes down to forcing one side to to accept the will of the other.

[17to85]

Yep, sorry Zontar, not to pile on but... you clearly don't know what you're talking about in this instance. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just thought "Schools = Good".

You know what,I'll take a stand and say residential schools were a not terrible idea that was just handled really poorly. Should a just assimilated everyone from the start then there'd be a lot less problems with reserves

Clearly, you're not too familiar with the stated aim of the Residential Schools either.  Their primary purpose was to eradicate First Nations culture, to get rid of "indians" once and for all.  Explain to me how that can ever be "not a terrible idea"?

Because assimilation is not a bad thing. Could have had just a whole bunch of Canadians rather than the government protected racism that currently exists. Signing treaties hundreds of years ago was an easy solution at the time but they have long lasting negative effects that manifest themselves in this day and age

Ah yes, assimilation.  Not sure how you assimilate a people that were seen as inferior in virtually every way possible.  Assimilation was never the goal, because no one of that day would have ever considered First Nations people as equals, no matter how much education they had.  They would simply become "better behaved savages".  That's not assimilation, it's something very different.

But time washes away those attitudes. As it stands now racism is entrenched in the constitution rather than just being a social issue that could be fixed

[SPuDS]

Yep, sorry Zontar, not to pile on but... you clearly don't know what you're talking about in this instance. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just thought "Schools = Good".

You know what,I'll take a stand and say residential schools were a not terrible idea that was just handled really poorly. Should a just assimilated everyone from the start then there'd be a lot less problems with reserves

I agree.. Good idea in theory.. Execution was horrible. My only problem is that you hear of the atrocities of these bad schools.. Does anyone know the ratio of "good" schools to "bad" schools? I've heard conflicting reports that there was many, many schools that functioned as design and were not essentially the jail/asylums that we keep hearing about.. I've also heard that what we know is the tip of the ice berg..

[iso_55]

These residential schools were run by the Catholic Church, right? Well, the perverted psychopathic priests didn't just go after native kids. They ****** over little white kids too. And the Church protected these monsters. That is the shame of the Catholic Church. And it will forever be a stained ink blot on that religion as far as I'm concerned. 

[WBBFanWest]

These residential schools were run by the Catholic Church, right? Well, the perverted psychopathic priests didn't just go after native kids. They ****** over little white kids too. And the Church protected these monsters. That is the shame of the Catholic Church. And it will forever be a stained ink blot on that religion as far as I'm concerned. 

Anglicans and Presbyterians also ran schools.  The churches were contracted by the government to provide this "service".

[Zontar]

 

Yes teaching Indians how to read and write and become productive members of the 20th century society is outrageous.

You may want to brush up on your history, Residential schools punished native children for speaking their first languages, often with beatings, starvation,denials of medical and dental care, and frequent sexual abuse. At that time, natives were forbidden to wear regalia in public, perform traditional ceremonies, or even gather outside of reserves in groups of more than 2 at a time. Families were destroyed by children having little contact with their families in the formative years from 6 to 16.

There were some kind and gentle people staffing the schools, but there were a lot of monsters as well. There is even evidence that disease-carrying blankets were handed out to native communities in Manitoba and Saskatchewan. You may also want to read the comments may by John A. McDonald about his plans for natives.

 

You cannot blame the sins on the essence of the system. Schools were designed to transform Indians into the best and enlightened individuals they  thought a person could be - Christian, english speaking, learning a trade and contributing to society.

 

Explain how encouraging them to be backward with ancient susperstitions - all enabled by so called native "leaders",  in ghettos under a corrupt system is the better way to go ?

 

The sins of rampant alcoholism , unemployment and aimlessness in life is as great or greater than what "we" ever did to them.

[pigseye]

 

 

Yep, sorry Zontar, not to pile on but... you clearly don't know what you're talking about in this instance. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just thought "Schools = Good".

You know what,I'll take a stand and say residential schools were a not terrible idea that was just handled really poorly. Should a just assimilated everyone from the start then there'd be a lot less problems with reserves

I agree.. Good idea in theory.. Execution was horrible. My only problem is that you hear of the atrocities of these bad schools.. Does anyone know the ratio of "good" schools to "bad" schools? I've heard conflicting reports that there was many, many schools that functioned as design and were not essentially the jail/asylums that we keep hearing about.. I've also heard that what we know is the tip of the ice berg..

 

 

You are correct spuds, I don't know the exact figure but there were many schools in Alberta in the 50's & 60's that did good for the reserves and that the bands had to fight to keep open.

 

Also, the abuse wasn't just clergy on students, as much or more of the abuse was older students on the younger ones.

[AtlanticRiderFan]

Lol, since when do politics have anything to do with football ?

 

Truly is a long off season. 

[iso_55]

Lol, since when do politics have anything to do with football ?

 

Truly is a long off season. 

Have you not heard of "political football"? 

[Rod Black]

Bill Blaikie was a Long time church minister, rider fan, politician and mp for Transcona, most of the things were fighting about here, and not once during our arguments, did he ever admit that the earth was flat. He obviously had NOTHING going for him. I'll say it again, the EARTH is FLAT.

[iso_55]

Bill Blaikie was a Long time church minister, rider fan, politician and mp for Transcona, most of the things were fighting about here, and not once during our arguments, did he ever admit that the earth was flat. He obviously had NOTHING going for him. I'll say it again, the EARTH is FLAT.

Blaikie. Ugh. Became a career politician. Like Judy Wazylicia-Leis & Steve Ashton. Couldn't stand the guy. God didn't give him a pension to sit for over 2 decades in the back benches in Ottawa but the people of Canada sure did.

[Tracker]

 

Bill Blaikie was a Long time church minister, rider fan, politician and mp for Transcona, most of the things were fighting about here, and not once during our arguments, did he ever admit that the earth was flat. He obviously had NOTHING going for him. I'll say it again, the EARTH is FLAT.

Blaikie. Ugh. Became a career politician. Like Judy Wazylicia-Leis & Steve Ashton. Couldn't stand the guy. God didn't give him a pension to sit for over 2 decades in the back benches in Ottawa but the people of Canada sure did.

 

Unlike Mr. Harper.

[NotoriousBIG]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's a thought.  If you think "cowboy church" is silly, don't go.  If you think that regular church is silly, don't go.  But judge not...

 

I wonder how many folks setting up these churches share the same "to each their own" attitude as you?

 

Call up a cowboy church and ask if they perform gay marriages? I have a pretty good idea what the answer will be...

 

 

WTF does that have to do with anything?

Call up a Chinese restaurant and ask them if they do fondue, if they don't should they be ridiculed on a football forum?

 

 

Who's ridiculing? 

 

I think organized religion has done far more "evil" in the past 2000 years than it's done good. And the more extreme/peculiar the religion, the more hateful and intolerant they tend to be. 

 

That's my opinion, expressed respectfully on a football forum. 

 

Enjoy your Chinese food.

 

I am a regular church goer and can readily concede that religions can do and have done wonderful things for humanity. That said, it has been reported that there have been more killing over religious differences (at least that was the excuse) than any other reason.

About 20 years ago, the chief theologian for the Catholic church (Hans Kung) wondered out loud in an interview whether mankind would not have been better off without organized religion. Within 24 hours of the airing of the interview, he was demoted to a small parrish in France.

Religion is not the problem. It happens when politics and religion get into bed together.

 

 

Exactly. Christianity is pretty tame right now, but look at what happened during the Crusades. 

 

I think it's our responsibility as Canadians to be tolerant, yes, but also skeptical. What people want to do on Sundays is their business -- just don't let them inject their beliefs into policy making, education, government, etc.

 

Lets not forget registered churches are getting a tax break as well.  

 

 

I see, so religion should not inject their beliefs on society but your beliefs regarding gay marriage must be supported by them?

Anything else your highness?

 

 

There's no need to be so condescending. It just makes you sound ignorant.

 

Then again, you seem to believe a modern society should be based upon a book of fairy tales full of talking snakes and whales that swallow people. 

 

And actual living, contributing Canadians that happened to be born gay shouldn't enjoy the same rights as the rest of society. 

 

So perhaps ignorant is a good fit? 

 

 

Fact is, separation of church and state grants you the freedom to have those ignorant views. And I for one support that. 

 

Now move to a country where there is no separation of church and state -- see what life is like as a "non-believer."

[Jacquie]

The problem is you started your argument with an assumption about cowboy church based on nothing but a stereotype.

[max power]

"There's no need to be so condescending. It just makes you sound ignorant.

Then again, you seem to believe a modern society should be based upon a book of fairy tales full of talking snakes and whales that swallow people. "

So which is it? Is it ok to to be condescending or not?

[iso_55]

 

 

Bill Blaikie was a Long time church minister, rider fan, politician and mp for Transcona, most of the things were fighting about here, and not once during our arguments, did he ever admit that the earth was flat. He obviously had NOTHING going for him. I'll say it again, the EARTH is FLAT.

Blaikie. Ugh. Became a career politician. Like Judy Wazylicia-Leis & Steve Ashton. Couldn't stand the guy. God didn't give him a pension to sit for over 2 decades in the back benches in Ottawa but the people of Canada sure did.

 

Unlike Mr. Harper.

 

Same. They're all alike. I like term limits. Three terms max. Done. Out. Bye. Think we'd have so many elections if the politicians knew that a two year term is the same as a four or 5 year? Not likely.