Assimilation (We Are Borg?)

[iso_55]

"There's no need to be so condescending. It just makes you sound ignorant.

Then again, you seem to believe a modern society should be based upon a book of fairy tales full of talking snakes and whales that swallow people. "

So which is it? Is it ok to to be condescending or not?

 

"There's no need to be so condescending. It just makes you sound ignorant.

Then again, you seem to believe a modern society should be based upon a book of fairy tales full of talking snakes and whales that swallow people. "

So which is it? Is it ok to to be condescending or not?

Who are you talking to? We're all condescending. 

[AtlanticRiderFan]

 

Lol, since when do politics have anything to do with football ?

 

Truly is a long off season. 

Have you not heard of "political football"? 

 

 

Nope, never have. You learn something new every day.

[Rod Black]

The ugly rider fan, residential schools, buggers in politics, cowboy church, gay cowboy church, gay ugly bugger rider fan politicians that attended a residential school run by a cowboy church on the flat earth.

What does it take to discuss the REALLY important stuff...when is the McRib coming back?

[ediger]

 

 

 

Yep, sorry Zontar, not to pile on but... you clearly don't know what you're talking about in this instance. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just thought "Schools = Good".

You know what,I'll take a stand and say residential schools were a not terrible idea that was just handled really poorly. Should a just assimilated everyone from the start then there'd be a lot less problems with reserves

Clearly, you're not too familiar with the stated aim of the Residential Schools either.  Their primary purpose was to eradicate First Nations culture, to get rid of "indians" once and for all.  Explain to me how that can ever be "not a terrible idea"?

Because assimilation is not a bad thing. Could have had just a whole bunch of Canadians rather than the government protected racism that currently exists. Signing treaties hundreds of years ago was an easy solution at the time but they have long lasting negative effects that manifest themselves in this day and age

 

 

Seems to me the best thing would be for people to stop being pieces of **** and treating people differently based on cultural background. Assimilation is just the people at the top saying "you should all be like me". It's like Nazi-ism lite.

[iso_55]

 

 

 

 

Yep, sorry Zontar, not to pile on but... you clearly don't know what you're talking about in this instance. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just thought "Schools = Good".

You know what,I'll take a stand and say residential schools were a not terrible idea that was just handled really poorly. Should a just assimilated everyone from the start then there'd be a lot less problems with reserves

Clearly, you're not too familiar with the stated aim of the Residential Schools either.  Their primary purpose was to eradicate First Nations culture, to get rid of "indians" once and for all.  Explain to me how that can ever be "not a terrible idea"?

Because assimilation is not a bad thing. Could have had just a whole bunch of Canadians rather than the government protected racism that currently exists. Signing treaties hundreds of years ago was an easy solution at the time but they have long lasting negative effects that manifest themselves in this day and age

 

 

Seems to me the best thing would be for people to stop being pieces of **** and treating people differently based on cultural background. Assimilation is just the people at the top saying "you should all be like me". It's like Nazi-ism lite.

 

Like that will ever happen... Nice idea but not realistic. Look at what's going on in the world now? Especially in Syria & Iraq. We may be further away from your statement today than we were 35 years ago. 

[Tracker]

I've heard it said too many times that newcomers to Canada ought to assimilate into the dominant culture. This would explain why we are all wearing buckskin clothing and living in teepees.

[NotoriousBIG]

I've heard it said too many times that newcomers to Canada out to assimilate into the dominant culture. This would explain why we are all wearing buckskin clothing and living in teepees.

 

Yeah, I guess cause when "we" (i.e. Europeans) were the newcomers we were the ones doing all the dominating.

[Al Bundy]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's a thought.  If you think "cowboy church" is silly, don't go.  If you think that regular church is silly, don't go.  But judge not...

 

I wonder how many folks setting up these churches share the same "to each their own" attitude as you?

 

Call up a cowboy church and ask if they perform gay marriages? I have a pretty good idea what the answer will be...

 

 

WTF does that have to do with anything?

Call up a Chinese restaurant and ask them if they do fondue, if they don't should they be ridiculed on a football forum?

 

 

Who's ridiculing? 

 

I think organized religion has done far more "evil" in the past 2000 years than it's done good. And the more extreme/peculiar the religion, the more hateful and intolerant they tend to be. 

 

That's my opinion, expressed respectfully on a football forum. 

 

Enjoy your Chinese food.

 

I am a regular church goer and can readily concede that religions can do and have done wonderful things for humanity. That said, it has been reported that there have been more killing over religious differences (at least that was the excuse) than any other reason.

About 20 years ago, the chief theologian for the Catholic church (Hans Kung) wondered out loud in an interview whether mankind would not have been better off without organized religion. Within 24 hours of the airing of the interview, he was demoted to a small parrish in France.

Religion is not the problem. It happens when politics and religion get into bed together.

 

 

Exactly. Christianity is pretty tame right now, but look at what happened during the Crusades. 

 

I think it's our responsibility as Canadians to be tolerant, yes, but also skeptical. What people want to do on Sundays is their business -- just don't let them inject their beliefs into policy making, education, government, etc.

 

Lets not forget registered churches are getting a tax break as well.  

 

 

I see, so religion should not inject their beliefs on society but your beliefs regarding gay marriage must be supported by them?

Anything else your highness?

 

 

There's no need to be so condescending. It just makes you sound ignorant.

 

Then again, you seem to believe a modern society should be based upon a book of fairy tales full of talking snakes and whales that swallow people. 

 

And actual living, contributing Canadians that happened to be born gay shouldn't enjoy the same rights as the rest of society. 

 

So perhaps ignorant is a good fit? 

 

 

Fact is, separation of church and state grants you the freedom to have those ignorant views. And I for one support that. 

 

Now move to a country where there is no separation of church and state -- see what life is like as a "non-believer."

 

Fact is I have never been to church as an adult, it's not my thing.

I'm  also not opposed to gay marriage, I have gay friends and anyway who am I to decide who should or should not get married.

I have never once told you how to think and yet I'm the ignorant one for being put off by your insistence that those who disagree with you are wrong, silly and uneducated.

I am more than a little tired of the labels doled out by those of you who don't want to be labelled.  

Condescending is the absolute best your kind should expect.(and no, I don't mean gay)

[pigseye]

lol, so it came full circle after all, be tolerant to all including Rider fans!!!!

[NotoriousBIG]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's a thought.  If you think "cowboy church" is silly, don't go.  If you think that regular church is silly, don't go.  But judge not...

 

I wonder how many folks setting up these churches share the same "to each their own" attitude as you?

 

Call up a cowboy church and ask if they perform gay marriages? I have a pretty good idea what the answer will be...

 

 

WTF does that have to do with anything?

Call up a Chinese restaurant and ask them if they do fondue, if they don't should they be ridiculed on a football forum?

 

 

Who's ridiculing? 

 

I think organized religion has done far more "evil" in the past 2000 years than it's done good. And the more extreme/peculiar the religion, the more hateful and intolerant they tend to be. 

 

That's my opinion, expressed respectfully on a football forum. 

 

Enjoy your Chinese food.

 

I am a regular church goer and can readily concede that religions can do and have done wonderful things for humanity. That said, it has been reported that there have been more killing over religious differences (at least that was the excuse) than any other reason.

About 20 years ago, the chief theologian for the Catholic church (Hans Kung) wondered out loud in an interview whether mankind would not have been better off without organized religion. Within 24 hours of the airing of the interview, he was demoted to a small parrish in France.

Religion is not the problem. It happens when politics and religion get into bed together.

 

 

Exactly. Christianity is pretty tame right now, but look at what happened during the Crusades. 

 

I think it's our responsibility as Canadians to be tolerant, yes, but also skeptical. What people want to do on Sundays is their business -- just don't let them inject their beliefs into policy making, education, government, etc.

 

Lets not forget registered churches are getting a tax break as well.  

 

 

I see, so religion should not inject their beliefs on society but your beliefs regarding gay marriage must be supported by them?

Anything else your highness?

 

 

There's no need to be so condescending. It just makes you sound ignorant.

 

Then again, you seem to believe a modern society should be based upon a book of fairy tales full of talking snakes and whales that swallow people. 

 

And actual living, contributing Canadians that happened to be born gay shouldn't enjoy the same rights as the rest of society. 

 

So perhaps ignorant is a good fit? 

 

 

Fact is, separation of church and state grants you the freedom to have those ignorant views. And I for one support that. 

 

Now move to a country where there is no separation of church and state -- see what life is like as a "non-believer."

 

Fact is I have never been to church as an adult, it's not my thing.

I'm  also not opposed to gay marriage, I have gay friends and anyway who am I to decide who should or should not get married.

I have never once told you how to think and yet I'm the ignorant one for being put off by your insistence that those who disagree with you are wrong, silly and uneducated.

I am more than a little tired of the labels doled out by those of you who don't want to be labelled.  

Condescending is the absolute best your kind should expect.(and no, I don't mean gay)

 

 

I've read this 5 times and still have no idea what your point is. 

 

Its like you're playing that old game show, Bumper Stumpers. '

 

Anyway, my point is, before you let a religious text decide the rule of law then I suggest digging a little deeper into them. Including the bible. 

 

Some of the punishments in there for "crimes" would make Isis blush. 

[Fatty Liver]

 

Yep, sorry Zontar, not to pile on but... you clearly don't know what you're talking about in this instance. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just thought "Schools = Good".

You know what,I'll take a stand and say residential schools were a not terrible idea that was just handled really poorly. Should a just assimilated everyone from the start then there'd be a lot less problems with reserves

 

 

This is true.  People back in the day were observing the same "Indian problem" we have to this very day, that is how best to make them into productive/happy citizens of Canada. Unfortunately the residential school solution was misguided and can now be judged in hindsight as an abject failure. 

 

Not sure evil intentions were what they had in mind at the time as they viewed the American solution of mass genocide with distaste.  Because of common British roots the same residential school solution was tried in Australia and New Zealand with the aboriginal population with similar poor results.  Finding workable solutions is not always as easy as identifying a perceived problem.

[17to85]

 

 

 

 

Yep, sorry Zontar, not to pile on but... you clearly don't know what you're talking about in this instance. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just thought "Schools = Good".

You know what,I'll take a stand and say residential schools were a not terrible idea that was just handled really poorly. Should a just assimilated everyone from the start then there'd be a lot less problems with reserves

Clearly, you're not too familiar with the stated aim of the Residential Schools either.  Their primary purpose was to eradicate First Nations culture, to get rid of "indians" once and for all.  Explain to me how that can ever be "not a terrible idea"?

Because assimilation is not a bad thing. Could have had just a whole bunch of Canadians rather than the government protected racism that currently exists. Signing treaties hundreds of years ago was an easy solution at the time but they have long lasting negative effects that manifest themselves in this day and age

 

 

Seems to me the best thing would be for people to stop being pieces of **** and treating people differently based on cultural background. Assimilation is just the people at the top saying "you should all be like me". It's like Nazi-ism lite.

 

no assimilation isn't a one way street, it goes two ways. Stop separating people into different groups and we can just all be Canadian and treat everyone equally. Treaties however just make sure racism and different groups being treated differently continues to exist. 

[NotoriousBIG]

 

 

 

 

 

Yep, sorry Zontar, not to pile on but... you clearly don't know what you're talking about in this instance. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just thought "Schools = Good".

You know what,I'll take a stand and say residential schools were a not terrible idea that was just handled really poorly. Should a just assimilated everyone from the start then there'd be a lot less problems with reserves

Clearly, you're not too familiar with the stated aim of the Residential Schools either.  Their primary purpose was to eradicate First Nations culture, to get rid of "indians" once and for all.  Explain to me how that can ever be "not a terrible idea"?

Because assimilation is not a bad thing. Could have had just a whole bunch of Canadians rather than the government protected racism that currently exists. Signing treaties hundreds of years ago was an easy solution at the time but they have long lasting negative effects that manifest themselves in this day and age

 

 

Seems to me the best thing would be for people to stop being pieces of **** and treating people differently based on cultural background. Assimilation is just the people at the top saying "you should all be like me". It's like Nazi-ism lite.

 

no assimilation isn't a one way street, it goes two ways. Stop separating people into different groups and we can just all be Canadian and treat everyone equally. Treaties however just make sure racism and different groups being treated differently continues to exist. 

 

 

You are trying to grossly oversimplify the situation.  You can't say "just stop separating people into groups" when people naturally self-identify already. 

 

Furthermore, the treaties were a legal document. This wasn't a bill of sale for a used BBQ written on a napkin -- it was legal title to land we now live on, land that is now Canada. 

 

The government has a moral obligation as society built upon laws to uphold the treaties; or at least the spirit behind them. 

[Zontar]

To brag of Canada's multiculutural society but pretend there is nothing wrong with a seperate set of rules for aboriginals is both shameful and ludicrous.

[NotoriousBIG]

To brag of Canada's multiculutural society but pretend there is nothing wrong with a seperate set of rules for aboriginals is both shameful and ludicrous.

 

To be so unapologetically ignorant about the steps taken in building this country isn't much better. 

[gbill2004]

How has this thread not been locked yet?

Guess it's been a long offseason

[Zontar]

 

To brag of Canada's multiculutural society but pretend there is nothing wrong with a seperate set of rules for aboriginals is both shameful and ludicrous.

 

To be so unapologetically ignorant about the steps taken in building this country isn't much better. 

 

Ignorant because I refuse to be a guilt-ridden white liberal and apologize for wanting to bring indians into modernity ?  

[NotoriousBIG]

 

 

To brag of Canada's multiculutural society but pretend there is nothing wrong with a seperate set of rules for aboriginals is both shameful and ludicrous.

 

To be so unapologetically ignorant about the steps taken in building this country isn't much better. 

 

Ignorant because I refuse to be a guilt-ridden white liberal and apologize for wanting to bring indians into modernity ?  

 

 

It's not white-guilt syndrome to acknowledge that the way our country did things was completely messed up. And attitudes like just "bring Indians into modernity" is just the same attitude repeating itself. 

 

Now we have a 10-15 billion dollar sinkhole called the Dep't of Native Affairs that is basically ineffective as all it does is throw taxpayer money at problems -- and the problems will never go away, because you first need to get to the root of the problem. That these people feel completely disenfranchised. 

[Bigblue204]

 

 

To brag of Canada's multiculutural society but pretend there is nothing wrong with a seperate set of rules for aboriginals is both shameful and ludicrous.

 

To be so unapologetically ignorant about the steps taken in building this country isn't much better. 

 

Ignorant because I refuse to be a guilt-ridden white liberal and apologize for wanting to bring indians into modernity ? 

 

Where do we begin to talk to someone about the actual issues, when they start saying things like this and label people who don't agree with their opinion in such an aggressive way. Why is it that everyone who disagrees with you is A) white, B)Guilt Ridden  C) Liberal....? Honest question.

You are ignorant...I'm not going to explain to you why (cause i'm not your teacher)...but now that you know you are, please act like an adult and find out why. Educate yourself.

Also should be noted....using the term "indian" in reference to Native americans is often seen as offensive and....wait of it.....ignorant.

[sweep the leg]

"Indian" is a pretty loaded word.

[NotoriousBIG]

Look, I won't play CBC radio here --

 

When I go back to WPG and see the gang bangers and drunks stumbling out of the bus shack at Portage Place, or hear stories of people getting a $5000 Medi-Vac'd by air ambulance out of the reserve just so they can go gamble on the weekend, it bothers me. 

 

But these are all the symptoms of a problem our country created. You have to own that before any progress can be made.

[WBBFanWest]

 

 

To brag of Canada's multiculutural society but pretend there is nothing wrong with a seperate set of rules for aboriginals is both shameful and ludicrous.

 

To be so unapologetically ignorant about the steps taken in building this country isn't much better. 

 

Ignorant because I refuse to be a guilt-ridden white liberal and apologize for wanting to bring indians into modernity ?  

 

Well thank you for making sure that we understand who you are and what you believe.  It will certainly color anything that I read from you in the future.

[17to85]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yep, sorry Zontar, not to pile on but... you clearly don't know what you're talking about in this instance. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just thought "Schools = Good".

You know what,I'll take a stand and say residential schools were a not terrible idea that was just handled really poorly. Should a just assimilated everyone from the start then there'd be a lot less problems with reserves

Clearly, you're not too familiar with the stated aim of the Residential Schools either.  Their primary purpose was to eradicate First Nations culture, to get rid of "indians" once and for all.  Explain to me how that can ever be "not a terrible idea"?

Because assimilation is not a bad thing. Could have had just a whole bunch of Canadians rather than the government protected racism that currently exists. Signing treaties hundreds of years ago was an easy solution at the time but they have long lasting negative effects that manifest themselves in this day and age

 

 

Seems to me the best thing would be for people to stop being pieces of **** and treating people differently based on cultural background. Assimilation is just the people at the top saying "you should all be like me". It's like Nazi-ism lite.

 

no assimilation isn't a one way street, it goes two ways. Stop separating people into different groups and we can just all be Canadian and treat everyone equally. Treaties however just make sure racism and different groups being treated differently continues to exist. 

 

 

You are trying to grossly oversimplify the situation.  You can't say "just stop separating people into groups" when people naturally self-identify already. 

 

Furthermore, the treaties were a legal document. This wasn't a bill of sale for a used BBQ written on a napkin -- it was legal title to land we now live on, land that is now Canada. 

 

The government has a moral obligation as society built upon laws to uphold the treaties; or at least the spirit behind them. 

 

No I'm not over simplifying. This is how the problem gets solved. I know full well what the treaties that were signed were and what the intent was. The problem is that they are legal documents that are guaranteed by the constitution of this country, and that's a huge problem and the #1 reason why most of these problems exist. When they were signed it was seen as the easy solution, put the natives out of the way and throw them a few trinkets every now and then and let them live their traditional lifestyle. Problem is that in todays society it is a terrible solution and completely unworkable. The best solution IS to stop treating them differently and make them all Canadian and treat everyone equally. When you have such a skewed number of impoverished people on reserves it is safe to say that the system is broken, but where's the push to change a broken system? You even bring it up and you're labelled a racist. Too much blame gets thrown at the feet of the government of Canada and they're expected to fix it, but they can't fix it unilaterally, self determination and all that, so basically it's just "give us more money because residential schools! abuse! ugly history! white guilt!" It's those treaties that are holding things back. 

[WBBFanWest]

No I'm not over simplifying. This is how the problem gets solved. I know full well what the treaties that were signed were and what the intent was. The problem is that they are legal documents that are guaranteed by the constitution of this country, and that's a huge problem and the #1 reason why most of these problems exist. When they were signed it was seen as the easy solution, put the natives out of the way and throw them a few trinkets every now and then and let them live their traditional lifestyle. Problem is that in todays society it is a terrible solution and completely unworkable. The best solution IS to stop treating them differently and make them all Canadian and treat everyone equally. When you have such a skewed number of impoverished people on reserves it is safe to say that the system is broken, but where's the push to change a broken system? You even bring it up and you're labelled a racist. Too much blame gets thrown at the feet of the government of Canada and they're expected to fix it, but they can't fix it unilaterally, self determination and all that, so basically it's just "give us more money because residential schools! abuse! ugly history! white guilt!" It's those treaties that are holding things back. 

 

 

The best solution is for white people to stop believing that they have a clue how to fix the problem.  That's how we got into this mess in the first place

[pigseye]

No I'm not over simplifying. This is how the problem gets solved. I know full well what the treaties that were signed were and what the intent was. The problem is that they are legal documents that are guaranteed by the constitution of this country, and that's a huge problem and the #1 reason why most of these problems exist. When they were signed it was seen as the easy solution, put the natives out of the way and throw them a few trinkets every now and then and let them live their traditional lifestyle. Problem is that in todays society it is a terrible solution and completely unworkable. The best solution IS to stop treating them differently and make them all Canadian and treat everyone equally. When you have such a skewed number of impoverished people on reserves it is safe to say that the system is broken, but where's the push to change a broken system? You even bring it up and you're labelled a racist. Too much blame gets thrown at the feet of the government of Canada and they're expected to fix it, but they can't fix it unilaterally, self determination and all that, so basically it's just "give us more money because residential schools! abuse! ugly history! white guilt!" It's those treaties that are holding things back. 

 

 

The best solution is for white people to stop believing that they have a clue how to fix the problem.  That's how we got into this mess in the first place

Largest untapped work force in the country, 2 million first nation grads by 2020, assimilation has happened. The days of hunting & fishing for a living are over. The reserves will dry up because the young won't stay.