Assimilation (We Are Borg?)

[The Unknown Poster]

That's a very good point.  There certainly is a strong belief in that that you do as the Elders say.  The non-aboriginal culture has a large aspect of questioning our leadership.  That's sort of the cornerstone of democracy.  There isnt true democracy in the aboriginal community.  That's another reason the reserve system has to go.

[The Unknown Poster]

The demand for an inquest into missing and murdered aboriginal women is a perfect example.  It's an idea designed solely to create tension between aboriginals and the "white" government.  Harper rightfully said this isnt an issue for an inquest.  It's for law enforcement.  I've heard many people say why is an aboriginal life more worthy of investigation than a non-aboriginal.  The aboriginal politicians will tell you the opposite is true and thats their point.  But law enforcement will tell you that missing and murdered women are extremely likely to be victimized by people very close to them.  Do we need an inquest to determine that it's mostly aboriginal men killing aboriginal women?  I know the implication is the big bad white boogeyman is killing and abducting aborgional women and Stephen Harper is covering it up.  But it's just not true.

 

When that poor girl was found on the banks of the river, tell me what the narrative would have been if the perps were white.  It wouldnt have been "girl attacked by vicious thugs".  It would have been "see, we are under attack by the white man". 

[New_Earth_Mud]

That's a very good point.  There certainly is a strong belief in that that you do as the Elders say.  The non-aboriginal culture has a large aspect of questioning our leadership.  That's sort of the cornerstone of democracy.  There isnt true democracy in the aboriginal community.  That's another reason the reserve system has to go.

 

I agree.

 

I dont think the reserve has to go tho. The thinking and understanding of it just needs to be changed. The thought of this is what we have because the white guy gave it to us and we can only have whats given needs to change. The idea of thinking we are down here and the only way up is what the white man gives us is a huge problem because to many times what happens is that teaching and thought process leads into taking advantage of it rather then saying thank you but ill go get things on my own.

 

Its not just natives that would think this way either its anyone....  Any people that are given things for so long will just start to think this way and pass it on.....  Why work or try to better things if everything is given to us anyway.  If you give a squirrel nuts long enuff its going to stop going out to get them and teach its young that nuts are free and there is no need to go find them....  be happy with the nuts you have.... no need to go find bigger and better nuts. Eventually you just end up with a bunch of lazy squirrels that want more and more free nuts.

 

Another poster said this and i agree 100%....  no white man is ever ever ever going to fix this now....  the natives have to do it themselves with the white mans help. And when i say help i dont mean giving them things and or making it easy.

 

Id love to see the day a white leader holds the hand of a native leader and says we are equal lets walk through life together.  And actually means it. 

[Zontar]

I'd appreciate the romantic idea of keeping them in a stone-age mentality and be permanent victims more if it were applied evenly

 

but when certain people who praise themselves as modern, broad-minded, enlightened and fair...

 

Pat indians on the head , treat them like children and tell them how wise valuable and interesting their old fables, traditions and culture are and beg them not to change a thing....

 

yet turn on a dime and condemn a Christian for being out of step with modern society and morality.

 

Hypocrisy is comical if it werent so obvious and blatant.

[New_Earth_Mud]

The demand for an inquest into missing and murdered aboriginal women is a perfect example.  It's an idea designed solely to create tension between aboriginals and the "white" government.  Harper rightfully said this isnt an issue for an inquest.  It's for law enforcement.  I've heard many people say why is an aboriginal life more worthy of investigation than a non-aboriginal.  The aboriginal politicians will tell you the opposite is true and thats their point.  But law enforcement will tell you that missing and murdered women are extremely likely to be victimized by people very close to them.  Do we need an inquest to determine that it's mostly aboriginal men killing aboriginal women?  I know the implication is the big bad white boogeyman is killing and abducting aborgional women and Stephen Harper is covering it up.  But it's just not true.

 

When that poor girl was found on the banks of the river, tell me what the narrative would have been if the perps were white.  It wouldnt have been "girl attacked by vicious thugs".  It would have been "see, we are under attack by the white man". 

 

Good post and again i agree but somewhat disagree.

 

The natives know full well who is doing the abusing for the most part.... but they also really have no way of policing themselves. This is why im saying its the thinking of the natives that has to change. They need to take control of this. The problem is they dont know how.

 

The thinking has been so screwed up for so long even the natives just say... oh well its just another native girl the white man will figure it out for us and when they dont...  well the easiest way to get the white man to help is to start putting the blame on them. White man been abusing us for so long its them that are doing the abusing and killing. 

[New_Earth_Mud]

I'd appreciate the romantic idea of keeping them in a stone-age mentality and be permanent victims more if it were applied evenly

 

but when certain people who praise themselves as modern, broad-minded, enlightened and fair...

 

Pat indians on the head , treat them like children and tell them how wise valuable and interesting their old fables, traditions and culture are and beg them not to change a thing....

 

yet turn on a dime and condemn a Christian for being out of step with modern society and morality.

 

Hypocrisy is comical if it werent so obvious and blatant.

 

 

Natives.....  Not Indians.  TY

[Atomic]

You have an entire generation who grew up with no parents thanks to residential schools. Did you grow up with anyone whose parents weren't around? How did they end up? Now apply that to an entire race for a generation.

Now that generation has kids and have no idea how to raise them because they had no parents themselves. And the cycle continues.

So who is supposed to step up and lead them? I agree that it has to be natives who lead natives and make the changes. But it is going to take a remarkable person or group of people to lead them, and it might be awhile until that happens because of the long term damage that has been done to their people.

[iso_55]

The demand for an inquest into missing and murdered aboriginal women is a perfect example.  It's an idea designed solely to create tension between aboriginals and the "white" government.  Harper rightfully said this isnt an issue for an inquest.  It's for law enforcement.  I've heard many people say why is an aboriginal life more worthy of investigation than a non-aboriginal.  The aboriginal politicians will tell you the opposite is true and thats their point.  But law enforcement will tell you that missing and murdered women are extremely likely to be victimized by people very close to them.  Do we need an inquest to determine that it's mostly aboriginal men killing aboriginal women?  I know the implication is the big bad white boogeyman is killing and abducting aborgional women and Stephen Harper is covering it up.  But it's just not true.

 

When that poor girl was found on the banks of the river, tell me what the narrative would have been if the perps were white.  It wouldnt have been "girl attacked by vicious thugs".  It would have been "see, we are under attack by the white man".

Wanting an inquiry on this & not getting it then throwing out the racist card by native activists.

[New_Earth_Mud]

You have an entire generation who grew up with no parents thanks to residential schools. Did you grow up with anyone whose parents weren't around? How did they end up? Now apply that to an entire race for a generation.

Now that generation has kids and have no idea how to raise them because they had no parents themselves. And the cycle continues.

So who is supposed to step up and lead them? I agree that it has to be natives who lead natives and make the changes. But it is going to take a remarkable person or group of people to lead them, and it might be awhile until that happens because of the long term damage that has been done to their people.

 

Things run deep

 

There will and are natives to lead the natives but your right its going to take along time and for a few reasons.

 

A whole way of thinking has to be changed. The mentality of who they are has to change. And not just by natives but buy everyone else also. The gangster and or drunk bum on the street thinking its always some Indian has to go away. Im not saying its not always right...  jus saying its a stigma that needs to be gone.

 

Another thing is...  Its impossible for natives to go about change alone. Its going to take some help and the second they ask for that hand or help its going to be said....  Oh the Indians want more help...  give them something to shut them up and untill someone steps up n says no it will go on.

 

Cruel cycle  

[Fatty Liver]

You have an entire generation who grew up with no parents thanks to residential schools. Did you grow up with anyone whose parents weren't around? How did they end up? Now apply that to an entire race for a generation.

Now that generation has kids and have no idea how to raise them because they had no parents themselves. And the cycle continues.

So who is supposed to step up and lead them? I agree that it has to be natives who lead natives and make the changes. But it is going to take a remarkable person or group of people to lead them, and it might be awhile until that happens because of the long term damage that has been done to their people.

 

It can start with one chief who recognizes the cycle and has the cooperation from his band council to implement the changes necessary to break it.  Too many chiefs are filling their pockets and failing their people.

[The Unknown Poster]

Generally if a chief does want to change things he doesnt get very far.  The reason I say the reserve system has to go is because there is no political will for Aborigional leaders to want to change a system they profit from.  We fund a dictatorship.  It's ridiculous.  When there are issues pertaining to funding or lack of resources on a reserve somehow that is always the government's fault but this is the system that is in place.  Cut out the middle man.

 

And yes, residential schools really, really decimated the aboriginal people.

 

But theres a better way.  No one owns anything on a reserve.  There is no pride in ownership.  Ever been on a reserve and see the conditions of the homes and vehicles?  Ever see brand new snow machines left out on the ice in spring to fall through so they can bill the government for new ones next fall?  Why is there a vast amount of homeless or poor aboriginal people in Winnipeg, coming here from the reserve with nowhere to go, no chance of improving themselves but it's better then the reserve.

 

I had a friend when I was in my early 20's.  We worked together.  Her parents lived on the reserve and her dad actually ran a business so he was quite successful.  She told me when she had been engaged that her and her fiance were given a home on the reserve and she worked for her father.  But none of it was hers...but it was *easy*.  She left, lived in a cheap apartment, worked a fairly go-nowhere job for the time being because she didnt want that life. 

 

Its a very difficult issue.  Will take immense political will and courage to change it.

[Mark H.]

You have an entire generation who grew up with no parents thanks to residential schools. Did you grow up with anyone whose parents weren't around? How did they end up? Now apply that to an entire race for a generation.

Now that generation has kids and have no idea how to raise them because they had no parents themselves. And the cycle continues.

So who is supposed to step up and lead them? I agree that it has to be natives who lead natives and make the changes. But it is going to take a remarkable person or group of people to lead them, and it might be awhile until that happens because of the long term damage that has been done to their people.

 

Just to add to the problem:

 

1. Teaching on a reserve up North is referred to as paying your dues in the teaching profession.  The good teachers who prove themselves will be hired in Southern Manitoba.  Fly in Sunday night, fly home Friday afternoon, and don't stay there for more years than you have to.  

 

2. Brandon University has been running a Teacher Training program for Aboriginals since 1972.  But this program has produced very few teachers.  In fact, those who graduate are usually middle-aged and have only a few years of teaching left.  Guess what the younger people do if they earn a degree?  Leave the reserve.

 

Who is supposed to step up and lead them? That's literally a billion dollar question at this point.

[basslicker]

I'm sorry but most religious congregations are basically a Star Trek convention.

If dressing up like a caricature and putting on some affected accent is part of your weekly "worship" then I strongly suggest stepping away from organized religion for a while and perhaps reading a science book or two.

Dollars to donuts they'll be serving cyanide Kool Aid at one of these things in a few years.

There are many things I want to say to you.

But I don't want to get banned.

so I'll simply say.....you're ignorant.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

I'm sorry but most religious congregations are basically a Star Trek convention.

If dressing up like a caricature and putting on some affected accent is part of your weekly "worship" then I strongly suggest stepping away from organized religion for a while and perhaps reading a science book or two.

Dollars to donuts they'll be serving cyanide Kool Aid at one of these things in a few years.

There are many things I want to say to you.

But I don't want to get banned.

so I'll simply say.....you're ignorant.

 

No kidding.

[WBBFanWest]

For those of you that are truly interested in educating yourselves about this isssue, I'd suggest this as a starting point:  https://www.overdrive.com/media/966616/the-inconvenient-indian  

 

It's written to be more easily read than a lot of other books on the same topic, but it really does leave a lot of stuff out.  Still, it is a good starting point for those who think that the residential school system was "a good idea, but poorly implemented" or have a "Pat indians on the head , treat them like children and tell them how wise valuable and interesting their old fables, traditions and culture are and beg them not to change a thing...." mentality.

[iso_55]

Does it really matter if it was a good idea or not? It didn't work & kids suffered for it.

[SPuDS]

Yep, sorry Zontar, not to pile on but... you clearly don't know what you're talking about in this instance. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just thought "Schools = Good".

You know what,I'll take a stand and say residential schools were a not terrible idea that was just handled really poorly. Should a just assimilated everyone from the start then there'd be a lot less problems with reserves

Clearly, you're not too familiar with the stated aim of the Residential Schools either. Their primary purpose was to eradicate First Nations culture, to get rid of "indians" once and for all. Explain to me how that can ever be "not a terrible idea"?

Because assimilation is not a bad thing. Could have had just a whole bunch of Canadians rather than the government protected racism that currently exists. Signing treaties hundreds of years ago was an easy solution at the time but they have long lasting negative effects that manifest themselves in this day and age

Seems to me the best thing would be for people to stop being pieces of **** and treating people differently based on cultural background. Assimilation is just the people at the top saying "you should all be like me". It's like Nazi-ism lite.

no assimilation isn't a one way street, it goes two ways. Stop separating people into different groups and we can just all be Canadian and treat everyone equally. Treaties however just make sure racism and different groups being treated differently continues to exist.

You are trying to grossly oversimplify the situation. You can't say "just stop separating people into groups" when people naturally self-identify already.

Furthermore, the treaties were a legal document. This wasn't a bill of sale for a used BBQ written on a napkin -- it was legal title to land we now live on, land that is now Canada.

The government has a moral obligation as society built upon laws to uphold the treaties; or at least the spirit behind them.

I agree with you but you realize the treaty breakers are not the government for the most part but the bands or tribes that keep looking to re-write them to include more territory, mineral rights and of course that ever-popular word.. Compensation.