Sure, why not. Whatever. WWE Network and Wrestlemania

[Taynted_Fayth]

Yeah itll be interesting how they use styles, obviously they didnt think too much of him before, and as a non WWE wrestler whose done well for himself, I hope hes not a sting 2.0 in WWE.  I hope they were scolded for how they handled sting.  

 

Id have liked to have seen a jericho vs styles match 15 years ago

Edited January 21, 2016 by Taynted_Fayth

[The Unknown Poster]

Just now, Taynted_Fayth said:

Yeah itll be interesting how they use styles, obviously they didnt think too much of him before, and as a non WWE wrestler whose done well for themselves, I hope hes not a sting 2.0 in WWE.  I hope they were scolded for how they handled sting.  

 

Id have liked to haven a jericho vs styles match 15 years ago

No one to scold.  Hunter dictated use of Sting.  Even Scott Hall said it was stupid.  He told the story of rehearsing WrestleMania and they were standing there and Hunter is running through the finish and says "sledgehammer, 1...2...3" and Hall said he looked at Hogan and they exchanged surprised expressions.  But he said people have to understand, they made the story about WWE vs WCW and Sting was never going to win.  Hall even laughed off the fact Sting finally went to WWE after so many years and didnt bother to get a guarantee on match finish at WrestleMania.  Which is funny for a variety or reasons but his point is still valid.

[Taynted_Fayth]

I meant scolded for really just signing him for a high profile squash. I get the WWE vs WCW, but you would think with WWE now owning wcw and the last man standing, its obvious who won, but they constantly come out and sell dvds about wcw and most recently sting dvds. You would tink from that stand point, theyd have made sting look strong just so the unfamiliar with his career would become awe struck and have a desire to look into this guy.  I mean stings a soon to be HOFer and legend but its just confusing to me the mindset here

[The Unknown Poster]

2 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

I meant scolded for really just signing him for a high profile squash. I get the WWE vs WCW, but you would think with WWE now owning wcw and the last man standing, its obvious who won, but they constantly come out and sell dvds about wcw and most recently sting dvds. You would tink from that stand point, theyd have made sting look strong just so the unfamiliar with his career would become awe struck and have a desire to look into this guy.  I mean stings a soon to be HOFer and legend but its just confusing to me the mindset here

The funniest part is, Vince never thought Sting was a top guy and was shocked by the reactions he was getting and the sales figures of his first DVD.

[The Unknown Poster]

My Rumble sleeper pick is Daniel Bryan, only because things seem all too quiet on that front lately.  But if he is in the Rumble, he pretty much needs to win it.  Or Hunter screws him.  But you risk the fans hijacking every show from here to WM if you do that without an immediate payoff.  Hunter screws Daniel at Rumble and wins title.  Daniel gets title shot at Fast Lane, Roman screws Hunter.  WM becomes Hunter vs Roman (no title) and Bryan vs Brock for the title.

[Taynted_Fayth]

did I miss hunter throwing his name into the rumble?

[The Unknown Poster]

7 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

did I miss hunter throwing his name into the rumble?

No but he's been gone since the injury angle so the strong speculation is he will make his return at the Rumble.  Some are predicting he will actually enter as #31 to "screw" Roman.

[Atomic]

You can't push everyone at the same time though.  You can complain about the Wyatts and Tyler Breeze being buried but if they were getting a push it means someone else is being buried and then the fans complain about that.  There are only so many title feuds to go around and someone has to lose in each one and it can't just be jobbers all the time.

Breeze vs Ziggler was okay... But then what?  I don't know.  It can't be easy booking the never ending story that is the WWE.

[The Unknown Poster]

5 hours ago, Atomic said:

You can't push everyone at the same time though.  You can complain about the Wyatts and Tyler Breeze being buried but if they were getting a push it means someone else is being buried and then the fans complain about that.  There are only so many title feuds to go around and someone has to lose in each one and it can't just be jobbers all the time.

Breeze vs Ziggler was okay... But then what?  I don't know.  It can't be easy booking the never ending story that is the WWE.

That's not true.  They have three hours every Monday. You don't oush one guy at a time.  There's a lot of leeway between completely buried and pushed on top. But WWE has a problem with that. Their new thing is to do 50-50 booking where everyone loses one, wins one, loses one, wins one. It doesn't get anyone over. 

Go back to even the 80's. You had hogan on top and whatever heel he was programmed with.  You had a secondary face that was usually programmes with the next heel challenger to hogan 

then you had the IC champion and whomever he was feuding with. Then you had tag teams. And at every level they were always preparing the next challenger so you always had several guys in various stages of push. 

They rarely do that anymore. It's a conscious decision. And it's bad. 

[Atomic]

10 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

That's not true.  They have three hours every Monday. You don't oush one guy at a time.  There's a lot of leeway between completely buried and pushed on top. But WWE has a problem with that. Their new thing is to do 50-50 booking where everyone loses one, wins one, loses one, wins one. It doesn't get anyone over. 

Go back to even the 80's. You had hogan on top and whatever heel he was programmed with.  You had a secondary face that was usually programmes with the next heel challenger to hogan 

then you had the IC champion and whomever he was feuding with. Then you had tag teams. And at every level they were always preparing the next challenger so you always had several guys in various stages of push. 

They rarely do that anymore. It's a conscious decision. And it's bad. 

Cena gets the huge push and look what happens.  All the super fans hate him.

And I don't buy your point about leeway.  The Wyatts just finished a feud with ECW where they dominated and they've beat up Reigns, Big Show, Lesnar etc and you're still sitting here saying they're buried.  Fairly recently they beat Reigns, Ambrose, and Jericho at a PPV.  Yeah, the guys who are now world champ, IC Champ, and Y2J is Y2J.  So they lost to Taker and Kane... Big deal.  You call that being buried?  Seems like exactly the leeway you're talking about.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Atomic

[The Unknown Poster]

50 minutes ago, Atomic said:

Cena gets the huge push and look what happens.  All the super fans hate him.

And I don't buy your point about leeway.  The Wyatts just finished a feud with ECW where they dominated and they've beat up Reigns, Big Show, Lesnar etc and you're still sitting here saying they're buried.  Fairly recently they beat Reigns, Ambrose, and Jericho at a PPV.  Yeah, the guys who are now world champ, IC Champ, and Y2J is Y2J.  So they lost to Taker and Kane... Big deal.  You call that being buried?  Seems like exactly the leeway you're talking about.

Your point about Cena is far too simplistic.  If he got his superpush last year and the fans turned on him, maybe you'd have a point.  Cena's push began in 2003.  So he has been presented as the top guy essentially since that time.  Which is nearly 13 straight years.  Hulk Hogan burst into WWE in January 1984 and they were trying to replace him in 1990.  But let's use 1993 as the end of his run (he was being phased out in 92 admist the steroid scandal, brought back in 93 but business tanked).  That's 9 years.

We can trace the beginnings of Steve Austin's explosion to June 1996.  They still booked him as a heel until the following WrestleMania (they would never have the patience to do that now).  He was done as a top guy by 2002.  Six years.

Even Hunter didnt have Cena' level longevity.  1999 to about 2009.  And while his relationship with Steph isnt why he made it (he's very talented), its probably why he had so many chances and the power to stay on top.  That's ten years.

But the thing they all have in common is that fans began tiring of them.  Hogan reinvented himself in WCW.  Austin did a heel turn that flopped.  Hunter was thought of as a guy holding people down.

When WCW raided WWE in the 90s, it forced them to develop new stars.  Cena's stint on top has made WWE very reluctant to do that same thing.  Whenever they try to move away from him, business doesnt respond and they go back to him.

I dont dislike the Wyatts.  But they came in with a bang.  they were then De-emphasized for no reason other than thats what WWE does.  Brought back, then Bray was split off from the other two.  Then flopped.  then put back together.  Its not that they have been buried per se, but booked so inconsistently that they arent credible to the fans.

You need to go back and watch what made WWE successful and see how they booked during their more stable times to understand what Im talking about.  There were always guys at every level being groomed.  Tag Team...split...feud...win the IC title...get over at that level...dabble at the top....win the big strap.  Another version is come in and feud with the champ, lose the feud, move down to IC title, develop the next generation of top guys.  They dont do that anymore.

Look at RAW this past monday.  What the hell was that entire third hour?  An 8 man tag that BOMBED in the ratings and why anyone though it would be any different is mind blogging.  Chris Jericho back for two weeks, not remotely a ratings draw.   No one is over. 

It is WWE's job to get people over through booking and marketing.  They are great at marketing.  They are lousy at booking.  Listen to Road Dogg discuss this on the JBL Legends series... Dogg is on the creative team.  He talks about how in the Attitude Era, the creative freedom of the boys was more important to their getting over than the general circumstances that the booker (Russo) wrote for them.  And then shrugs off the fact that is no longer the case by saying "Hey, we're a TV show and TV shows have scripts."  That's the biggest issue with WWE, Vince & Steph decided one day back in 2000-ish that WWE was no longer a wrestling promotion and was something akin to Disney and they needed scripts and script writers and started ignoring the "rules" of wrestling that existed for 100 years.  They've deluded themselves into thinking the fans dont matter, the fans dont know better and that this is how "TV" is run.

And thats why no one is over but the brand and the family.

[The Unknown Poster]

Here's a story that impacts two popular threads!

       

Making A Murderer Subject’s Brother Abandon’s WWE Hopes

ProWrestlingSheet.com has an update on Making A Murderer subject Brendan Dassey’s brother Brad’s ambitions to get a former WWE star to meet him in prison. Apparently the very public request somehow resulted in Brendan being moved to an even more high security prison facility. Former WWE Superstar Sean “X-Pac” Waltman had actually stepped up and offered to visit Dassey in prison himself. Since the request seems to have created even more troubles for Brendan and the Dassey family Brad is abandoning his efforts to get Waltman, or any other WWE Superstar, to meet Brendan in prison.

 

 

[Taynted_Fayth]

I think it's all about gimmicks and lack there of. what made Bray and his "family" interesting off the get go was it's unusual and creepy nature, which was worlds better the husky harris. so it worked,  but your right the de-emphasizing of the wyatts has been a huge mis-step and possibly missed opportunity if they are never pushed back into a view of a real threat. But they need more creative gimmicks like this to reach younger audiences i think.  when i think of myself as a kid what made me like watching wrestling,  was watching a guy like the Ultimate warrior running to the ring ridiculously jacked up then fight either a voodoo witch doctor (Papa shango) or the threat of a giant python being dumped on him if he lost (Jake the snake roberts) stuff like that "as a kid" was funner to watch then say what would be a sheamus vs anyone match really.  

perfect example; pro wrestling the video game. i was ALWAYS the green monster guy or the starfish faced man

 

 

or I was Earthquake and Mr Perfect trying to steal the gold from the legion of doom

 

need more of that less of bo dallas'

regarding cena, when he broke out, I'd admit i wasn't a huge fan of his white boy rap shtick with the ridiculous chain around his neck, but he was kinda funny at times. he became a lot more stale when he dropped the humor and was all hustle loyalty and respect, go army!

 

 

 

 

Edited January 22, 2016 by Taynted_Fayth

[Taynted_Fayth]

damn pics from Pro Wrestling video game and wrestle fest wont load

Edited January 22, 2016 by Taynted_Fayth

[The Unknown Poster]

Then other thing about Bray was that his promos made him unique initially and he a lot more leeway in scripting his promos than most guys but then they became really repetitive and it became him rambling on about something nonsensical.  Which happens if you have little direction from Creative.  Even his feud with Roman...he has a feud with him but they've never explained why, never explained his motivation.  Bray keeps saying "Anyone but you"...okay, what does that mean?  Why? 

When Jake Roberts turned heel on Ultimate Warrior, it was virtually for no reason...except, Jake summed it up with "Never trust a snake".  He did it because he's evil.  It was a simple explanation but something fans can buy into.  With Bray, they hint at some motivation but never really tell us.

[Taynted_Fayth]

The thing I took away from Bray was he was a self righteous Messiah, very much Cult-esque. and like most people in all walks of life, they tend to believe they are the good and in the right, no matter how delusional and wrong they may be.Im not really sure if they were initially trying to insinuate Roman had some demons that even Bray couldnt save, or if it was to make a story line RR was a false hero and bray had some leverage on him.  they quickly dropped it tho for whatever reason, maybe lack of traction with the crowd. IIRC it was just before WM as well when Bray started inexplicably calling out the Undertaker. maybe they thought the creepy bray vs the deadman would have been a far more compelling story/special effects dream match

Edited January 22, 2016 by Taynted_Fayth

[The Unknown Poster]

I think they see Bray as a solid upper mid-card heel at a time when they are hurting for heels.  So they figured he's an easy guy to put with Roman.  They want Roman to be cheered, not boo'ed.  Against some heels, Roman is going to get boo'ed.  They cooled Bray off enough, made him less cool so that he wouldnt get cheered.

I know that sounds nuts.  But WWE is a weird culture.  You should hear the stories of what they did when they bought WCW and how they treated guys.  Just look at Sting.  nearly 15 years after buying WCW, they still had to show everyone that "WWE was better".  Just goofy.  They do really goofy things.

The way they've treated Breeze is nuts.  The DIVAS Revolution was nuts.  The pushing of Roman ahead of everyone else who was more over.  Just nuts.

[Taynted_Fayth]

I gotta wonder if making the wyatts weak and the emergence of the social outcasts is more a lopsided in the Heel factions there seems to have been,  the authority at one point, New day, Wyatts, League of Nations,  waaay too many heel groups with #s squaring off against individual wrestlers and forcing guys who might have had some legit feuds going on like say ziggler/rusev,  ambrose/owen, ..ect constantly have to partner up and it makes the individual feuds seem weak

[The Unknown Poster]

Social Outcasts are done.  Putting them together was never going to work but having Big Show squash them a week later was the end.  WWE has an enormous number of "jobbers" and low card guys with little hope of getting over.  They cant be screwing up their own developmental guys like Tyler Breeze who is everything they want in a wrestler.

They desperately need to book AJ Styles the right way.

[Atomic]

Great reading, thanks.  Some points:

Loved Pro Wrestling the game.  You're talking about Starman and The Amazon. Starman was always my guy.  Spawned the hilarious and popular "A Winner Is You!" phrase due to a mistranslation.

I still think there has always been a degree of up-and-down movement for stars outside of the mainstays like Hogan.  Look at Edge.  Came in with The Brood (Gangrel and Christian) which eventually died, he kinda sat around the mid card for a long time, then eventually became one of the biggest stars in the company.  I do get what you're saying though and obviously there are problems with the booking.

That 8 man tag on RAW was a disaster.  WTF was the point?  No build up, no excitement, and on top of that the match itself was god awful.  Awful, awful, awful.

But I still think there is potential there with Bray!  Just ditch Rowan and Strowman and have Bray and Harper as a tag team maybe?  They are both great, IMO.

[The Unknown Poster]

1 minute ago, Atomic said:

Great reading, thanks.  Some points:

Loved Pro Wrestling the game.  You're talking about Starman and The Amazon. Starman was always my guy.  Spawned the hilarious and popular "A Winner Is You!" phrase due to a mistranslation.

I still think there has always been a degree of up-and-down movement for stars outside of the mainstays like Hogan.  Look at Edge.  Came in with The Brood (Gangrel and Christian) which eventually died, he kinda sat around the mid card for a long time, then eventually became one of the biggest stars in the company.  I do get what you're saying though and obviously there are problems with the booking.

That 8 man tag on RAW was a disaster.  WTF was the point?  No build up, no excitement, and on top of that the match itself was god awful.  Awful, awful, awful.

But I still think there is potential there with Bray!  Just ditch Rowan and Strowman and have Bray and Harper as a tag team maybe?  They are both great, IMO.

Yeah you're certainly right.  I think in the past, because it was just one or two guys booking the entire show, they took more pride in making sure they "touched" every segment and had something for every guy, sometimes too much in fact.  Now they do so much start and stop booking.  I would segment my writing team and put someone in charge of specific angles/wrestlers so they are focused on writing for them and not feeling like everyone is being pulled to write for the top of the card.

I'd also change the first hour of RAW and de-emphasize it a bit.  Its killing the third hour which is where you naturally climax the big angles.  I'd start the second hour with a "big" segment, like they seem to do in Hour One with the weekly Authority promo and let the first hour be different.  Let it be under-utilized guys.  almost like how Nitro had the cruiserweights.

[iso_55]

Social Outcasts hopefully are done. Not one of those 4 guys have any redeeming qualities. They're boring & are jobbers. They killed Adam Rose feuding with a bunny. Kurtis Axel is just a terrible wrestler with average mic skills unlike his dad who was a true superstar. I think Vince keeps him around because of his affection & loyalty for his late father. Even this League of Nations crap. There's no chemistry between any of them. And Jericho's "Ayatollah Of Rock N Rolla" is just a tedious saying going back 10 years. Fans don't seem too excited about him now coming back, do they? Cena did hit the mark about part time wrestlers leaving & coming back when he feuded with The Rock 3 years ago. After awhile fans just stop caring because they feel the wrestlers don't care about them.

Edited January 22, 2016 by iso_55

[The Unknown Poster]

TNA is claiming AJ Styles and the other two Bullet Club guys met with Dixie at her home in December and signed a deal to return to TNA.  And then backed out. 

[iso_55]

TNA who cares? Entirely irrelevant.

[Brandon]

Kenny Omega to TNA?