Shocking Development In Germanwings Crash - Pilot Locked Out

[The Unknown Poster]

Cnn.com

(CNN)Latest developments:

• One of the pilots on board Germanwings Flight 9525 was locked out of the cockpit when the plane crashed, a senior military official told The New York Times Wednesday, citing evidence from the cockpit voice recorder.

• Lufthansa, the parent company of Germanwings, does not have any information about The New York Times' report, but is looking into it, company spokesman Klaus Gorny told CNN Thursday.

• Helicopters have airlifted some victims' remains from the site of the Germanwings plane crash in the French Alps, the Gendarmerie said Wednesday, according to CNN affiliate France 2.

Full story:

Investigators trying to determine what caused the crash of Germanwings Flight 9525 have made a startling discovery in an audio recording, according to a New York Times report: One of the plane's pilots was locked out of the cockpit before the crash.

"You can hear he is trying to smash the door down," a senior military official involved in the investigation told the newspaper, describing audio from the cockpit voice recorder, one of the plane's black boxes.

"We don't know yet the reason why one of the guys went out," the official said, according to the Times' report. "But what is sure is that at the very end of the flight, the other pilot is alone and does not open the door."

Lufthansa spokesman Klaus Gorny said the company has no information about the report but is looking into it.

The Times' report is a "terribly shocking revelation," CNN aviation analyst Peter Goelz said. But he and other experts cautioned that it's still unclear what could have been going on inside the cockpit.

Possibilities range from a medical emergency to something more nefarious, like a suicide mission, CNN aviation analysts said.

Officials previously said that hadn't ruled out terrorism, but it seems unlikely.

French authorities revealed earlier Wednesday that they'd been able to access audio from the recorder, even though its external casing was damaged.

But they disclosed few details about what the recording actually contained, saying only that there was one audio channel with voices on it that went all the way up to the time of the crash.

"It is too early to draw conclusions to what happened," said Remi Jouty, head of the BEA, the French aviation investigative arm leading the probe. "There is going to be detailed work performed on that audio file to understand and interpret the sounds and the voices that can be heard."

Finding the plane's second black box will also be critical to understanding the mystery of what went on inside the jet.

That box, the flight data recorder, hasn't been found yet, but Lufthansa CEO Carsten Spohr said Wednesday that there's a high probability it will be.

[Brandon Blue&Gold]

Cnn.com

(CNN)Latest developments:

• One of the pilots on board Germanwings Flight 9525 was locked out of the cockpit when the plane crashed, a senior military official told The New York Times Wednesday, citing evidence from the cockpit voice recorder.

• Lufthansa, the parent company of Germanwings, does not have any information about The New York Times' report, but is looking into it, company spokesman Klaus Gorny told CNN Thursday.

• Helicopters have airlifted some victims' remains from the site of the Germanwings plane crash in the French Alps, the Gendarmerie said Wednesday, according to CNN affiliate France 2.

Full story:

Investigators trying to determine what caused the crash of Germanwings Flight 9525 have made a startling discovery in an audio recording, according to a New York Times report: One of the plane's pilots was locked out of the cockpit before the crash.

"You can hear he is trying to smash the door down," a senior military official involved in the investigation told the newspaper, describing audio from the cockpit voice recorder, one of the plane's black boxes.

"We don't know yet the reason why one of the guys went out," the official said, according to the Times' report. "But what is sure is that at the very end of the flight, the other pilot is alone and does not open the door."

Lufthansa spokesman Klaus Gorny said the company has no information about the report but is looking into it.

The Times' report is a "terribly shocking revelation," CNN aviation analyst Peter Goelz said. But he and other experts cautioned that it's still unclear what could have been going on inside the cockpit.

Possibilities range from a medical emergency to something more nefarious, like a suicide mission, CNN aviation analysts said.

Officials previously said that hadn't ruled out terrorism, but it seems unlikely.

French authorities revealed earlier Wednesday that they'd been able to access audio from the recorder, even though its external casing was damaged.

But they disclosed few details about what the recording actually contained, saying only that there was one audio channel with voices on it that went all the way up to the time of the crash.

"It is too early to draw conclusions to what happened," said Remi Jouty, head of the BEA, the French aviation investigative arm leading the probe. "There is going to be detailed work performed on that audio file to understand and interpret the sounds and the voices that can be heard."

Finding the plane's second black box will also be critical to understanding the mystery of what went on inside the jet.

That box, the flight data recorder, hasn't been found yet, but Lufthansa CEO Carsten Spohr said Wednesday that there's a high probability it will be.

I'll admit that was my first thought when I started reading your post.  Interesting to see what they find in the coming days.

[The Unknown Poster]

If I understand correctly the voice recorder captured the pilot trying to break into the cockpit. So the pilot in the cockpit would not or could not open the door.

The plane seems to steadily though rather quickly lose altitude. I have to wonder if the pilot at the controls wasn't suffering a medical emergency. The investigators would know if he was making any sounds. If it was suicide I'd expect him to dive more sharply especially if the co-pilot was trying to break in.

On the other hand why wouldn't the plane be on auto pilot when simply flying at cruising speed especially with one pilot away from the flight deck. Which brings up a consideration. There must be a way to design the flight deck so that pilots never have to leave it.

[gbill2004]

I fly Wesjet and I always see the pilot leave the cockpit area, lock the door to use the bathroom (same bathroom everyone else uses), which is outside the cockpit area. Maybe pilots need their own washroom inside the cockpit area.

[New_Earth_Mud]

Lots more info coming out now. This is getting crazy.

[The Unknown Poster]

Cnn

(CNN)Latest developments:

8:06 a.m.: The name of the co-pilot was Andreas Lubitz, Marseille prosecutor Brice Robin said.

• 7:55 a.m.: The co-pilot of the doomed Germanwings flight "accelerated the descent" of the plane when he was alone in the cockpit, Robin said Thursday. That can only be done deliberately, he said.

• 7:55 a.m: The co-pilot was alive until impact, Robin said, citing the sound of steady breathing in the cockpit.

• 7:55 a.m: There was a "deliberate attempt to destroy the aircraft," Robin said.

Full story:

Audio from the mangled voice recorder of Germanwings Flight 9525 reveals the captain was locked out of the cockpit while the co-pilot appeared to make a deliberate attempt to destroy the plane, Marseille prosecutor Brice Robin said Thursday.

The co-pilot of the doomed Germanwings flight "accelerated the descent" of the plane when he was alone in the cockpit, Robin said. That can only be done deliberately, he said.

Robin said the co-pilot was a German national and not on any terrorism list. He named him as Andreas Lubitz.

When a reporter asked Robin whether he knew Lubitz's religion, Robin said that he did not know.

The most plausible explanation of the crash is that the co-pilot "through deliberate abstention, refused to open the cabin door ... to the chief pilot, and used the button" to cause the plane to lose altitude, Robin said.

He emphasized that his conclusions were preliminary.

'Terribly shocking' revelation

The revelation about the cockpit audio was first reported by The New York Times and Agence France-Presse.

"You can hear he is trying to smash the door down," a senior military official involved in the investigation told The New York Times.

"We don't know yet the reason why one of the guys went out. But what is sure is that at the very end of the flight, the other pilot is alone and does not open the door."

[The Unknown Poster]

Practically unthinkable.

[New_Earth_Mud]

Near the end they can here passengers screaming 

[gbill2004]

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/germanwings-co-pilot-likely-crashed-jet-deliberately-prosecutor-120028890--sector.html#yy828NR

[The Unknown Poster]

EgyptAir Flight 990 had this happen.  Both pilots were at the controls.  Captain commanding nose up and co-pilot commanding nose down causing a split elevator condition that downed the craft.  How does one prevent a pilot who's determined to crash a plane from doing so?

 

Just a horrible development.

 

I can't help but think of MH370 and one of the theories being an intentional act by a flight crew member.  It was considered a long shot because it's a rare thing but maybe not so much.

 

What kind of coward takes out 149 other people with him?

[The Unknown Poster]

I fly Wesjet and I always see the pilot leave the cockpit area, lock the door to use the bathroom (same bathroom everyone else uses), which is outside the cockpit area. Maybe pilots need their own washroom inside the cockpit area.

I was thinking this too but really if the guy beside you wants to crash the plane what can you really do to stop him.  You'd have to physically over-power and subdue him while he's inputting negative commands.  There was a FedEx incident years ago where an employee tagging along attacked both pilots, injuring them severely.  One pilot managed to engage in a prolonged fight with the attacker while the other, also seriously injured, was able to land the plane.  It only worked because it was 2 on 1.

[The Unknown Poster]

• 8:39 a.m.: Marseille prosecutor Brice Robin said he was not thinking of the Germanwings crash as a suicide, explaining, "When you are responsible for 150 people, I don't call it a suicide."

• 8:39: a.m.: The bodies of the victims won't be released to families until all the DNA identification work has been done, the prosecutor said.

• 8:20 a.m.: As of now, there's "nothing to allow us to say that it was a terrorist attack," Robin said.

• 8:20 a.m.: Screaming could be heard on the audio recording only in the last few minutes, and death was instantaneous for those on board when the plane crashed, he said.

• 8:20 a.m.: The name of the co-pilot was Andreas Lubitz, and he was 28 years old, Robin said.

[New_Earth_Mud]

EgyptAir Flight 990 had this happen.  Both pilots were at the controls.  Captain commanding nose up and co-pilot commanding nose down causing a split elevator condition that downed the craft.  How does one prevent a pilot who's determined to crash a plane from doing so?

 

Just a horrible development.

 

I can't help but think of MH370 and one of the theories being an intentional act by a flight crew member.  It was considered a long shot because it's a rare thing but maybe not so much.

 

What kind of coward takes out 149 other people with him?

 

Could be pissed at the airline...  Or at Lufthansa

[The Unknown Poster]

One addition I'd like to see is cameras installed in the flightdeck (maybe the cabin as well) that feed into the recorders. Surely in this day and age they can do that.  Its one thing to hear whats going on, but seeing it would help as well and leave no question as to what the pilots are doing.

[New_Earth_Mud]

One addition I'd like to see is cameras installed in the flightdeck (maybe the cabin as well) that feed into the recorders. Surely in this day and age they can do that.  Its one thing to hear whats going on, but seeing it would help as well and leave no question as to what the pilots are doing.

 

That will never happen... pilots wont go for it and really when you think of it ... it wouldnt help anything in this case.

 

Would you agree to have a camera watching you work?

[Fraser]

******* coward

[Brandon]

One addition I'd like to see is cameras installed in the flightdeck (maybe the cabin as well) that feed into the recorders. Surely in this day and age they can do that. Its one thing to hear whats going on, but seeing it would help as well and leave no question as to what the pilots are doing.

That will never happen... pilots wont go for it and really when you think of it ... it wouldnt help anything in this case.

Would you agree to have a camera watching you work?

Everyone in retail , banks, buses don't seem to mind this...

[bigg jay]

 

One addition I'd like to see is cameras installed in the flightdeck (maybe the cabin as well) that feed into the recorders. Surely in this day and age they can do that.  Its one thing to hear whats going on, but seeing it would help as well and leave no question as to what the pilots are doing.

 

That will never happen... pilots wont go for it and really when you think of it ... it wouldnt help anything in this case.

 

Would you agree to have a camera watching you work?

 

 

I've worked with cameras in the workplace for many years and I'm pretty sure TUP also has years of experience with that.  They can definitely be useful in determining what happened after an event.  If you aren't doing anything wrong (you are at work after all), what's the problem?

[New_Earth_Mud]

Every pilot they have had on CNN has said no.  Im just going off that.

 

IMO banks and retail arnt focused on the workers as much as for a robbery and this seems to be what pilots are saying. I dont think any of us work with a camera focused right on you.

 

Another thing is a cockpit is more closed in then say a bank or in retail or say even an office....  they could just cover it up id think.

[WBBFanWest]

The reality is that if a pilot or co-pilot wants to do something like this, there is pretty much no way to stop it.  That's life sadly.  We want to believe that we can prevent stuff from happening, but a lot of the time, we just can't.  The illusion of control...

[The Unknown Poster]

 

One addition I'd like to see is cameras installed in the flightdeck (maybe the cabin as well) that feed into the recorders. Surely in this day and age they can do that.  Its one thing to hear whats going on, but seeing it would help as well and leave no question as to what the pilots are doing.

 

That will never happen... pilots wont go for it and really when you think of it ... it wouldnt help anything in this case.

 

Would you agree to have a camera watching you work?

 

Sure, why not.  I have cameras in my work place.  My management has the right to access my computer at any time and see exactly what I see, hears what I hear.  This isnt a big issue.  The union would bargain for cameras to be used in the same sense the voice recorder's are used - incidents.  Every word they say is recorded and there are processes for when they can speak and what they can say and Im sure pilots violate that from time to time but airlines arent pulling the voice recorders to use to discipline them.  If they valued cameras, it would not be a big issue to get them.

 

I think it would help.  For one it fills in blanks.  It gives you the opportunity to see the faces and expressions of the pilots.  It can show what a pilot was physically doing and not just what the data recorder recorded he was doing.  It can show medical issues, sleeping, distractions etc.  I think it's valuable.

[The Unknown Poster]

If you ask every person in retail, banks etc they will say nah I dont want to be watched.  Its not up to the inidividual.  Go back a few decades before voice recorders and ask pilots if they want every word they say to be recorded...they'd have said no.  Now it's a given.  And like i said, this isnt for disciplinary reasons.  The voice recorder only records 30 minutes, same would be with the video (though there is thought to increasing this to two hours and/or having wireless transmission).

 

Every tool helps.  Absolutely there should be cameras on flight decks.

[New_Earth_Mud]

 

 

One addition I'd like to see is cameras installed in the flightdeck (maybe the cabin as well) that feed into the recorders. Surely in this day and age they can do that.  Its one thing to hear whats going on, but seeing it would help as well and leave no question as to what the pilots are doing.

 

That will never happen... pilots wont go for it and really when you think of it ... it wouldnt help anything in this case.

 

Would you agree to have a camera watching you work?

 

Sure, why not.  I have cameras in my work place.  My management has the right to access my computer at any time and see exactly what I see, hears what I hear.  This isnt a big issue.  The union would bargain for cameras to be used in the same sense the voice recorder's are used - incidents.  Every word they say is recorded and there are processes for when they can speak and what they can say and Im sure pilots violate that from time to time but airlines arent pulling the voice recorders to use to discipline them.  If they valued cameras, it would not be a big issue to get them.

 

I think it would help.  For one it fills in blanks.  It gives you the opportunity to see the faces and expressions of the pilots.  It can show what a pilot was physically doing and not just what the data recorder recorded he was doing.  It can show medical issues, sleeping, distractions etc.  I think it's valuable.

 

 

Having access to your comp aint really the same thing IMO.

 

You would be ok with them putting a camera on your desk pointed right at you so they can watch you any time they want? Record you and watch it whenever they want?

 

And like i said a cockpit is a pretty small area... they could just cover it up if they wanted.... put a hat over it and its useless. 

[The Unknown Poster]

 

 

 

One addition I'd like to see is cameras installed in the flightdeck (maybe the cabin as well) that feed into the recorders. Surely in this day and age they can do that.  Its one thing to hear whats going on, but seeing it would help as well and leave no question as to what the pilots are doing.

 

That will never happen... pilots wont go for it and really when you think of it ... it wouldnt help anything in this case.

 

Would you agree to have a camera watching you work?

 

Sure, why not.  I have cameras in my work place.  My management has the right to access my computer at any time and see exactly what I see, hears what I hear.  This isnt a big issue.  The union would bargain for cameras to be used in the same sense the voice recorder's are used - incidents.  Every word they say is recorded and there are processes for when they can speak and what they can say and Im sure pilots violate that from time to time but airlines arent pulling the voice recorders to use to discipline them.  If they valued cameras, it would not be a big issue to get them.

 

I think it would help.  For one it fills in blanks.  It gives you the opportunity to see the faces and expressions of the pilots.  It can show what a pilot was physically doing and not just what the data recorder recorded he was doing.  It can show medical issues, sleeping, distractions etc.  I think it's valuable.

 

 

Having access to your comp aint really the same thing IMO.

 

You would be ok with them putting a camera on your desk pointed right at you so they can watch you any time they want? Record you and watch it whenever they want?

 

And like i said a cockpit is a pretty small area... they could just cover it up if they wanted.... put a hat over it and its useless. 

 

Thats not even close to what I wrote though is it?

 

I dont do a job that requires a camera on me at my desk.  But one aspect of my job requires handling of large amounts of money and in that room there is a camera on me.  And it is monitored by security.

 

I dont believe airlines can pull the voice recorders and listen to them anytime they want to to discipline the pilots.  This would be the same thing.  Cameras there for the safety of the crew and passengers to be reviewed in the event of an incident.  And if it was set up the same as the flight recorders, it couldnt even be used to review something that happened mid-flight since it only records the final 30 minutes.  it's designed to help investigators when there is a major crash.  Ask investigators if they'd love to be able to plug in to a lap top and immediately hear AND see what happened during the final moments of the plane.

 

It's a no brainer, really.

[New_Earth_Mud]

 

 

 

 

One addition I'd like to see is cameras installed in the flightdeck (maybe the cabin as well) that feed into the recorders. Surely in this day and age they can do that.  Its one thing to hear whats going on, but seeing it would help as well and leave no question as to what the pilots are doing.

 

That will never happen... pilots wont go for it and really when you think of it ... it wouldnt help anything in this case.

 

Would you agree to have a camera watching you work?

 

Sure, why not.  I have cameras in my work place.  My management has the right to access my computer at any time and see exactly what I see, hears what I hear.  This isnt a big issue.  The union would bargain for cameras to be used in the same sense the voice recorder's are used - incidents.  Every word they say is recorded and there are processes for when they can speak and what they can say and Im sure pilots violate that from time to time but airlines arent pulling the voice recorders to use to discipline them.  If they valued cameras, it would not be a big issue to get them.

 

I think it would help.  For one it fills in blanks.  It gives you the opportunity to see the faces and expressions of the pilots.  It can show what a pilot was physically doing and not just what the data recorder recorded he was doing.  It can show medical issues, sleeping, distractions etc.  I think it's valuable.

 

 

Having access to your comp aint really the same thing IMO.

 

You would be ok with them putting a camera on your desk pointed right at you so they can watch you any time they want? Record you and watch it whenever they want?

 

And like i said a cockpit is a pretty small area... they could just cover it up if they wanted.... put a hat over it and its useless. 

 

Thats not even close to what I wrote though is it?

 

I dont do a job that requires a camera on me at my desk.  But one aspect of my job requires handling of large amounts of money and in that room there is a camera on me.  And it is monitored by security.

 

I dont believe airlines can pull the voice recorders and listen to them anytime they want to to discipline the pilots.  This would be the same thing.  Cameras there for the safety of the crew and passengers to be reviewed in the event of an incident.  And if it was set up the same as the flight recorders, it couldnt even be used to review something that happened mid-flight since it only records the final 30 minutes.  it's designed to help investigators when there is a major crash.  Ask investigators if they'd love to be able to plug in to a lap top and immediately hear AND see what happened during the final moments of the plane.

 

It's a no brainer, really.

 

 

Well i asked if you would be ok with a camera focused on you all day at work and then you answered me about them having acsess to your comp and being able to see what you see.

 

Im not arguing it with you im just saying what im hearing on CNN and pilots seem to say no.

 

And like i said they could just cover it up. How do you stop that?