The Star Trek Thread!

[iso_55]

I'd love to see a new Star Trek series on tv. I'm not thrilled about the alternate universe that Abrams introduced us to in the first ST movie but if it means no ST on television if it isn't then I can get on board. I never was a true Trekker but I knew the characters & the history behind all the series that were on tv. Abrams just sulllied everything with his alternate universe including the characters especially Kirk & Spock. Kirk  now coming from a broken home & troubled childhood & Spock in love with Ohura. Just flew against everything the series was founded upon as well as the integrity of the characters. 

[tacklewasher]

The most pathetic was the Enterprise being under water. Futurama did it better.

[The Unknown Poster]

Not sure about distribution. They're makig a big deal out of CBS All Access so I imagine that's the plan in the US. Id assume they'd syndicate internationally.

ISO - and the bad news is one of the writers of the first two films is the exec producer on this show. I'm not overly optimistic. I think it will be heartless action but you never know.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

The most pathetic was the Enterprise being under water. Futurama did it better.

Yeah but that first 10 minutes was the best part of the film IMHO.

[iso_55]

Spock had the strength of 3 humans or something like that. Spock abhorred violence & would only result to it as a last resort. But that fight with Khan hundreds of feet above San Francisco, he was Superman. 

[Taynted_Fayth]

he mighta been fuelled with whatever adrenaline rush moms get when their babies are in danger, after speaking with his future self about khan

[The Unknown Poster]

The most pathetic was the Enterprise being under water. Futurama did it better.

Yeah but that first 10 minutes was the best part of the film IMHO.

You're definitely not wrong!!

[The Unknown Poster]

The only good thing about the Spock/khan fight was the foot chase which I thought was well done. Hated the cgi jumping from silly floating barges.

And the attempt by Spock to psi attack khan. He basically tried to mind **** him. Never thought of that before. So one for the writers there.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

 

Note the salute to music from TOS at around 0:55

 

I thought San Fran looked great here. Sorta realistic like.

 

Too bad hack director doing #3 but maybe the script will be good. Can't be worse then ST:ID

[17to85]

The thing to keep in mind is that something like 80% of Star Trek is pure crap, the 20% that was good is pretty damned good but to me most of that came from Deep Space Nine anyway which seems like it's kind of the bastard step child of the Trek series anyway. I liked that it was a bit rougher around the edges and things weren't so perfect. Made it more human. 

[The Unknown Poster]

The thing to keep in mind is that something like 80% of Star Trek is pure crap, the 20% that was good is pretty damned good but to me most of that came from Deep Space Nine anyway which seems like it's kind of the bastard step child of the Trek series anyway. I liked that it was a bit rougher around the edges and things weren't so perfect. Made it more human. 

Opinions vary but I'd certainly disagree with that.

 

The Original Series:  79 Episodes

The Animated Series: 22 Episodes

The Next Generation: 176 Episodes

Deep Space Nine: 176 Episodes

Voyager: 172 Episodes

Enterprise: 92 Episodes

 

That's 695 Episodes Not including the Animated Series.  Plus over 23 hours of films.

 

Not every episodes of TOS was a winner but the series is generally regarded as a great series and certainly, for most Trek fans, is the Holy Grail.

 

TNG averaged 20 million viewers and was a bonafide hit and won many awards.  By the 3rd season it really found its groove and was very good television.  Watching it now, it doesnt completely hold up and is somewhat a product of it's time but for its time, it was great.

 

Deep Space 9 is the critically acclaimed by most fans and critics.  It never scored like TNG but the bloom was off the rose by then and it didnt have the support of Star Trek's resident guru Rick Berman who disliked the war stories, grittiness and episodic nature of the program.  Its still my favourite though.

 

I always say that the TOS films made the original supporting cast think it was an ensemble when it wasnt.  Where as the TNG films smartly accepted that it wasnt really an ensemble.  DS9 embraced the very best of the ensemble concept.

 

Voyager was a great concept with horrible execution under the guidance of Jeri Taylor.  More concerned with pushing a woman as Captain then adhereing to it's concept, it was a superficial, preachy show where nothing mattered.  It was a show trying to say something but without the talent to say it.  It was a series desperate for episodic story-telling and grit and yet became known for hitting the re-set button every episode.

 

By the time Enterprise came along, the Rick Berman era was old, tired.  The best writers had moved away from the franchise and only the hacks remained.  Because Berman didnt like DS9, he let his best talent leave.  Make no mistake, Enterprise was the right concept at the right time and could have saved the franchise.  But it never lived up to its own concept and was afraid to be gritty and wasnt willing to let the roadblocks inherient with the timeline and concept stop it from telling the same lame stories this team had been telling since TNG.

 

I liked the production design of Enterprise from the ships to the uniforms.  It was emotionally invokative of OUR time.  I even liked the theme song.  But they solved all their problems way too soon.  Phasers, transporters etc.  And never paid off on the ill-advised mystery time traveller (who I think was going to be either Future Archer or James Kirk if they had gotten another season).

 

So I wouldnt say 80-20 split of crap to good.  I think its a majority of good of various shades.  The biggest issue with Star Trek is how CBS treated it over the years.  They never respected it and assumed hardcore Trekkies would always support it.  And that is the fear with this new TV show with the announcement it will live on CBS All Access steaming service for $6/month and that isnt even Commercial Free.  Doh!

[Logan007]

My two fav's were TNG and DS9.  I'm not sure what it was, but my brain couldn't take the hokeyness of TOS.  Voyager was ok, although at times very boring.  Enterprise was just not the Trek people wanted.  Prequels are more or less never good.

[The Unknown Poster]

My two fav's were TNG and DS9.  I'm not sure what it was, but my brain couldn't take the hokeyness of TOS.  Voyager was ok, although at times very boring.  Enterprise was just not the Trek people wanted.  Prequels are more or less never good.

I disagree with the idea Enterprise wasnt what people wanted.  it debuted with 12 million viewers and held steady til about mid-way through the first season before it dropped it a bit.  It then dropped every season.  I think it was a great concept and a terrible execution. 

 

People expected a real prequel.  It wasnt.  It was essentially Voyager with a new crew.  I know the studio screwed them a little because the original idea was to be earth-based for the first season to build tension and anticipation for the launch of the ship (or so Berman claims).  Which is how it should have gone.

 

By the time Manny Coto came along and made it a true prequel to TOS with some good stories, it was too late.

[17to85]

The problem with Enterprise was that it strayed away from being a prequel and tried to be it's own thing when what people wanted was the prequel. 

 

I still say the bulk of the episodes of all the Star Trek were pretty crappy but the good ones are quite good and make people forget just how awful a lot of the stuff was. 

[Logan007]

The problem with Enterprise was that it strayed away from being a prequel and tried to be it's own thing when what people wanted was the prequel. 

 

I still say the bulk of the episodes of all the Star Trek were pretty crappy but the good ones are quite good and make people forget just how awful a lot of the stuff was. 

No...ALL TNG EPISODES WERE AMAZING!!!!1111  Except for the first 2 seasons which were kind of lame.  BUT EVERYTHING AFTER THAT WAS AWESOME!!!

 

I still hold by what I said.  Enterprise was not the Trek people wanted.  They tuned in for the first half of the season because they were hoping it was Trek...it was not.  Plus, it's too hard to make a prequel to something who's technology is already considered lame (TOS).  They need to move forward, or restart from the beginning rather then make a prequel.

[The Unknown Poster]

I think they did a decent job of making the technology work.  I think people are willing to accept modern SFX and production design in the sense, if TOS had today's effects, would it look completely different?  I dont think it has to.  Enterprise, I think, took the position of rather then working backwards from TOS, working forwards from today and being something that could exist 150 years from now if we had discovered warp drive.

 

The uniforms looked like crosses between NASA flight suits and TOS coloured uniforms.  Transporters were dangerous and not allowed for living things.  They didnt have tractor beams.  Quarters were small.  The problem is, they ignored all of that pretty quick.  And in the first episode they completely shattered the canon reasons were strife with the Klingons and made Kronos "close".  And the Vulcans being bad guys didnt help either.

 

One of the issues with Star Trek 09 film was what they did to the Enterprise.  The Kelvin in the opening scene was pretty cool and in keeping with a "TOS with modern effects" in my opinion.  But the Enterprise was three times as large as the original with the Apple-inspired iBridge and a sense of technology that was too advanced, too slick.  And this ramped down the tension of humans on the final frontier of dangerous space travel.  It made it safe and sterile.  There was no reason for those choices other than the film makers wanting to replace established Trek with "new" Trek.

 

If it was me, the Kelvin would have been the TOS-era Enterprise, brought to the big screen faithfully with modern touches amounting to simple enhanced effects.  Captain Robert April in command.  Have the same scenario happen and have it be the Enterprise destroyed.  Then the "new" Enterprise being the "A".  It would have been more emotional, signalled a very distinct change in the timeline and solved some other problems too (like why they built a shipyards in the middle Iowa).

[iso_55]

 

The problem with Enterprise was that it strayed away from being a prequel and tried to be it's own thing when what people wanted was the prequel. 

 

I still say the bulk of the episodes of all the Star Trek were pretty crappy but the good ones are quite good and make people forget just how awful a lot of the stuff was. 

No...ALL TNG EPISODES WERE AMAZING!!!!1111  Except for the first 2 seasons which were kind of lame.  BUT EVERYTHING AFTER THAT WAS AWESOME!!!

 

I still hold by what I said.  Enterprise was not the Trek people wanted.  They tuned in for the first half of the season because they were hoping it was Trek...it was not.  Plus, it's too hard to make a prequel to something who's technology is already considered lame (TOS).  They need to move forward, or restart from the beginning rather then make a prequel.

 

Season 2 of TNG was spoiled by Pulaski. Ugh! What an old ***** she was.

[Logan007]

I knew as soon as I saw the transporters that it wouldn't be long before they started using it all the time.  After all, who wants to watch them go down to a planet on a shuttle all the time?  Yeah, they had some things right, but like all prequels, they decide to change things in order to make their stories work, and that usually ends up in disaster.

 

Ah well...hopefully this is a continuation of the old story line and not attached to the new Trek.

[The Unknown Poster]

I knew as soon as I saw the transporters that it wouldn't be long before they started using it all the time.  After all, who wants to watch them go down to a planet on a shuttle all the time?  Yeah, they had some things right, but like all prequels, they decide to change things in order to make their stories work, and that usually ends up in disaster.

 

Ah well...hopefully this is a continuation of the old story line and not attached to the new Trek.

 

That's the speculation right now.  CBS owns the original characters and linceses them to Paramount for the new films.  Paramount owns the "new" universe and dirivitives.  Alex Kurtzman (Exec Producer of the new series) was involved in the two films but is no longer involved with the films.  So who knows what the answer is but for CBS, it prbably makes more sense to pretend the films dont exist.

 

The second big question is which time period to take place in.

 

Personally, if they havent already talked to William Shatner, they are nuts. 

[17to85]

They'd be better off setting it some place distant to the timelines already covered in the previous entities. Jump forward a few decades from when Voyager ended. You're distant enough so as not to be totally beholden to what's happened in the other series and it allows you to play in the sandbox a little bit. They have literally an entire universe to set a series in, good writers could come up with a premise that will work. 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Well have to admit I prefer Voyager over DS9 and TNG. It might have to do with the fact that i've seen TNG to death and cannot stand that they got stuck in that primary/secondary story to every ep for just about everything after season 1.

 

TOS is above ratings of course. As for ENT, i've only seen it once but I remember the last 2 seasons were very good.

 

DS9 was the last one I saw and it had been a good while since i had seen it. You have to catch it from the beginning though. Best ending then TNG imho.

[The Unknown Poster]

They'd be better off setting it some place distant to the timelines already covered in the previous entities. Jump forward a few decades from when Voyager ended. You're distant enough so as not to be totally beholden to what's happened in the other series and it allows you to play in the sandbox a little bit. They have literally an entire universe to set a series in, good writers could come up with a premise that will work. 

Im strongly against going beyond the end of Voyager.  And here's why.  Star Trek is Science Fiction, not fantasy.  Its supposed to the idea of us today if we dont blow ourselves up.  Its looking into the future and seeing what the best of mankind eventually becomes.  But its close enough to today to be familar.

 

If we go too far into the future, we end up with science that looks like magic.  TOS had the transporter, warp, phasers, tractor beams.  TNG had holodeck, nanobots, AI.  And ofcourse time travel existed throughout and by the time of Voyager and Enterprise it was shown to be a normal thing by the next generation beyond Voyager.

 

It needs to remain grounded.  TOS was explored by that series and the films.  The TNG era was mined significantly by TNG, Voyager and DS9.  The era with the least exploration was between today and TOS with Enterprise representing a very minor bit.  I'd prefer something more in keeping with Earth and how we rise out of all the issues of today to be a peaceful space-faring species.  I want space travel to seem hard and complicated and dangerous. 

 

The Berman Trek made tension difficult because there were no inter-human issues.  DS9 flipped that by making space dangerous again, making it clear the darkness of humanity still existed and it was a fight to be better than our demons but to overcome the evil and bad intentions that existed out there.

 

My two cents.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

I still hold by what I said.  Enterprise was not the Trek people wanted.  

 

So true, I just wanted some exploration dammit. The one ep they got right was when the Communication officer took a pet home and it was turning out well and they dropped it off on another planet.

 

One of the issues with Star Trek 09 film was what they did to the Enterprise.  The Kelvin in the opening scene was pretty cool and in keeping with a "TOS with modern effects" in my opinion.  But the Enterprise was three times as large as the original with the Apple-inspired iBridge and a sense of technology that was too advanced, too slick.

 

One of the writers explained this. The Kelvin scanned the Narada and all that future tech was put it into the memory banks which were saved when they left the ship.

 

Season 2 of TNG was spoiled by Pulaski. Ugh! What an old ***** she was.

 

Considering how much better 2 was she might have saved it. Course season 1 had some great TOS-type eps. The drug addiction one my fave.

 

I knew as soon as I saw the transporters that it wouldn't be long before they started using it all the time.  After all, who wants to watch them go down to a planet on a shuttle all the time?  Yeah, they had some things right, but like all prequels, they decide to change things in order to make their stories work, and that usually ends up in disaster.

 

Surprised you not bring up the 'holodeck' episode. Oh vey.

[The Unknown Poster]

I know they gave that silly explanation for the massively advanced Enterprise, but it was still silly.  A scan can tell you how to build and use 25th century technology?  Uh huh.

 

It was just an excuse to show off modern SFX.  Imagine if the Hunt for Red October took place on a sub that looked like a luxury cruise ship.

[17to85]

 

They'd be better off setting it some place distant to the timelines already covered in the previous entities. Jump forward a few decades from when Voyager ended. You're distant enough so as not to be totally beholden to what's happened in the other series and it allows you to play in the sandbox a little bit. They have literally an entire universe to set a series in, good writers could come up with a premise that will work. 

Im strongly against going beyond the end of Voyager.  And here's why.  Star Trek is Science Fiction, not fantasy.  Its supposed to the idea of us today if we dont blow ourselves up.  Its looking into the future and seeing what the best of mankind eventually becomes.  But its close enough to today to be familar.

 

If we go too far into the future, we end up with science that looks like magic.  TOS had the transporter, warp, phasers, tractor beams.  TNG had holodeck, nanobots, AI.  And ofcourse time travel existed throughout and by the time of Voyager and Enterprise it was shown to be a normal thing by the next generation beyond Voyager.

 

It needs to remain grounded.  TOS was explored by that series and the films.  The TNG era was mined significantly by TNG, Voyager and DS9.  The era with the least exploration was between today and TOS with Enterprise representing a very minor bit.  I'd prefer something more in keeping with Earth and how we rise out of all the issues of today to be a peaceful space-faring species.  I want space travel to seem hard and complicated and dangerous. 

 

The Berman Trek made tension difficult because there were no inter-human issues.  DS9 flipped that by making space dangerous again, making it clear the darkness of humanity still existed and it was a fight to be better than our demons but to overcome the evil and bad intentions that existed out there.

 

My two cents.

 

It was always fantasy and to be honest the distinction between science fiction and fantasy (science fantasy) doesn't really exist anyway. The key as always is good writing so it's not just "Look future tech saves the day because it works like that!" You can go further ahead without having to rely on that crutch.