The Star Trek Thread!

[The Unknown Poster]

So at this point it's a redo of TOS.

 

No Pon-Farr for Spock, he's already getting some.

Supposedly not using the ship Enterprise and not using any previously seen crew.  And likely not the movie universe though it might look more like the movie universe than any previous TV show.

 

I wouldnt be against using the Enterprise B or C or the Enterprise when it was new under the command of Robert April.  The Animated Series (which Roddenberry considered canon) established April as the first Captain of the new ship which was buolt around 2245 (Kirk commanded in 2265) and also that his wife Sarah was Chief Medical Officer.  They could use April without adhering to *that* depicition but it provides some interesting background.

[Logan007]

Uggh...I have nothing left to say other then that.

[The Unknown Poster]

More news and rumors.

First the news:

CBS has hired Bryan Fuller as Show Runner.  Have also hired Nick Meyer (who wrote The Wrath of Khan & The Undiscovered Country) as a consulting producer and staff writer.  Hired Rod Roddenberry (Gene's son) as Producer.

Rumors:

Show will take place in the "prime" universe 23rd century (putting it in the time of (or around) the original series.  Speculation is either a Captain April or Captain Pike series or an Enterprise B series.

[do or die]

What I need to see:

A Vulcan character, who begins to manifest some alarming human habits, due to his newfound discovery of gin.......

 

[iso_55]

On ‎11‎/‎2‎/‎2015 at 4:23 PM, Logan007 said:

Science fiction is based on technology that we could have.  It's based around our actual reality.

 

Fantasy is not based in our reality.  It's magic, technology that can and can't be explained, etc...

 

Star Trek is Science Fiction.  Star Wars is Fantasy.  Yes they're closely related, but there's a reason there's 2 different sections in the book store.

I'd say Star Trek & Star Wars are science fiction & Harry Potter is fantasy.  Although SW does borrow from both. Through all the tv series & movies, ST has always been about proving Gods are created by aliens, caregivers & despots purely by technology.

Edited March 15, 2016 by iso_55

[iso_55]

We already has a pre ST: TOS called Enterprise that struggled but still stayed on the air for 5 seasons. I think only hard core fans liked the fact that the first Enterprise went into Outer Space with primitive transporters that were risky to use, that the ship had special battle armour & no shielding, could only go what, Warp 5, as I recall & wasn't a bad ass ship as the others if in an armed conflict? To me, Star Trek also works better as a 1 hr show with stories beginning & ending each episode. Not a continuation of a storyline for episode after episode.

[The Unknown Poster]

I think Enterprise because it didn't live up to the promise of its premise. The fact it had primitive transporters and less technology was great. But they never really embraced that. Not til the final season anyway but by then it was too late. 

The prequel concept is the best idea they've had since TNG. What made DS9 so good was its serialized storytelling. Something they didn't do Voyager and something they tried to copy with Enterprise but did so poorly.

if the rumors of CBS going back in time with the new series (ie Pre TOS) are true it makes sense to me. Star Trek is meant to be an evolution of us. If you go too far in the future you get farther away from that connection... 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Science fiction is reality that just has not occured yet or so I say.

Love me or hate me, i prefer Voyager to TNG but i think a lot of that has to do with having seen TNG so many times its unwatchable.

[The Unknown Poster]

16 minutes ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

Science fiction is reality that just has not occured yet or so I say.

Love me or hate me, i prefer Voyager to TNG but i think a lot of that has to do with having seen TNG so many times its unwatchable.

I agree about science fiction. Star Wars is science fantasy. Trek is science fiction. That's one thing the Bad a Robot people failed to understand. They just made bigger and badder and darker ships and made trans warp beaming and cured death with magic blood. They took the threat and realism out of it. 

Given the struggles of humanity in the world today a prequel oremise would make the most sense. Show us just a few generations into the future not 500 years. 

I generally detested Voyager. Most of the greatness of TNG was the chemistry of the cast and wonderful work of Stewart & Spiner. 

[iso_55]

I see Space has discontinued their late night/early morning showings of Voyager & TNG. They've played those 2 shows over & over for years & totally killed them. Even late at night.  Why they wouldn't show DS9 & TOS in their place or even Enterprise is surprising. I really enjoyed DS9 although I stated on an earlier thread I didn't like continued storylines. It was the best of all the series. Voyager was the worst. The final ending was absolutely horrendous. It tied nothing together to give fans closure with the characters. The writers slapped their fans in the face.

 

Edited March 16, 2016 by iso_55

[iso_55]

On ‎3‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 11:49 PM, The Unknown Poster said:

I agree about science fiction. Star Wars is science fantasy. Trek is science fiction. That's one thing the Bad a Robot people failed to understand. They just made bigger and badder and darker ships and made trans warp beaming and cured death with magic blood. They took the threat and realism out of it. 

Given the struggles of humanity in the world today a prequel oremise would make the most sense. Show us just a few generations into the future not 500 years. 

I generally detested Voyager. Most of the greatness of TNG was the chemistry of the cast and wonderful work of Stewart & Spiner. 

And the quarter twisted lurching walk of Ryker. I read somewhere that Jonathan Frakes did it to make Ryker different. Much like John Wayne created his distinctive walk  in the 1940's after a talk with Cowboy actor Paul Fixx.  He helped Wayne perfect his walk as he told Fixx he felt stiff on camera when he moved.  As far as Frakes is concerned, at times, it looked over-done like Ryker was drunk & was going to fall over sideways.

Edited March 16, 2016 by iso_55

[Logan007]

7 hours ago, iso_55 said:

And the quarter twisted lurching walk of Ryker. I read somewhere that Jonathan Frakes did it to make Ryker different. Much like John Wayne created his distinctive walk  in the 1940's after a talk with Cowboy actor Paul Fixx.  He helped Wayne perfect his walk as he told Fixx he felt stiff on camera when he moved.  As far as Frakes is concerned, at times, it looked over-done like Ryker was drunk & was going to fall over sideways.

Weird, I thought that was just his normal walk.  Interesting what some actors do to make their characters unique.

[The Unknown Poster]

8 hours ago, iso_55 said:

I see Space has discontinued their late night/early morning showings of Voyager & TNG. They've played those 2 shows over & over for years & totally killed them. Even late at night.  Why they wouldn't show DS9 & TOS in their place or even Enterprise is surprising. I really enjoyed DS9 although I stated on an earlier thread I didn't like continued storylines. It was the best of all the series. Voyager was the worst. The final ending was absolutely horrendous. It tied nothing together to give fans closure with the characters. The writers slapped their fans in the face.

 

CBS might be bringing it all in-house for their streaming service.  Netflix actually tried very hard to get CBS to let them make a new series due to the popularity of Star Trek on Netflix.  This made CBS realise how popular it still was and, I think, in the wake of the backlash against the two films, fans wanted Star Trek to get back to its roots as a thoughtful TV show.  The new series will be the cornerstone of CBS All Access (their streaming service) and the word is they will bring on the series' back under that umbrella. 

The TNG HD conversions didnt sell as well as they had hoped.  They were somewhat over-priced and there weren't "extras" as a hook like with TOS.  With TOS, they re-did effects.  TNG they didnt.  But they will probably make money in the long run through syndicating the HD or using them for All Access.  So there is word now they are going to give DS9 and Voy the HD treatment so they can use them on All Access as well.

Ofcourse, we probably wont get All Access, but CBS has said that the international distribution deals already in place for the new series will cover at least 60% of the cost of production so it seems like a no brainer that the series will be successful and I imagine we will get it on terrestrial TV.

There are already rumors that Showrunner Fuller and Exec Producer Kurtzman arent seeing eye to eye.

[The Unknown Poster]

44 minutes ago, Logan007 said:

Weird, I thought that was just his normal walk.  Interesting what some actors do to make their characters unique.

lol Yeah it was distinctive.  I always thought he did it because he was so big that it was sort of a compensation thing with working with smaller actors.  Frakes isnt a great actor but he nailed the character.  Which to me was the strength of TNG.  Spiner and Stewart (especially) raised everyone's game but everyone else were very good in their specific roles.  In a way that Voyager lacked, in my opinion.  I didnt care about anyone on Voyager.

On the other hand DS9 had the best collection of actors and they too captured a similar spirit and chemistry of the TNG cast.

[Logan007]

6 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

lol Yeah it was distinctive.  I always thought he did it because he was so big that it was sort of a compensation thing with working with smaller actors.  Frakes isnt a great actor but he nailed the character.  Which to me was the strength of TNG.  Spiner and Stewart (especially) raised everyone's game but everyone else were very good in their specific roles.  In a way that Voyager lacked, in my opinion.  I didnt care about anyone on Voyager.

On the other hand DS9 had the best collection of actors and they too captured a similar spirit and chemistry of the TNG cast.

Agreed, TNG and DS9 were fantastic.

I find Frakes is an excellent director.  Every time he directed a Star Trek episode I thoroughly enjoyed it.  First Contact is one of my favorite Star Trek movies and I didn't even realize until much later that he directed it.  I wish he'd do more directing of shows I like.

[The Unknown Poster]

2 minutes ago, Logan007 said:

Agreed, TNG and DS9 were fantastic.

I find Frakes is an excellent director.  Every time he directed a Star Trek episode I thoroughly enjoyed it.  First Contact is one of my favorite Star Trek movies and I didn't even realize until much later that he directed it.  I wish he'd do more directing of shows I like.

One thing he did well with First Contact was capture the closeness of the crew.  He understood the relationships.  First Contact was really good.  Sure it had its issues (the ease at which the Borg went back in time, the ease at which the Enterprise followed and then returned, the silly way Cochran was portrayed versus how he was portrayed in TOS).  But it was enjoyable.

I would love to see the "Actors Cut" of Nemesis that Stewart has talked about.  Supposedly Nemesis had a lot of great character scenes that were all cut because the director didnt know the series and just tried to make an action film.

[iso_55]

Cochrane was always this revered character & in the original series. He had crashed on an uncharted planet & had an alien Companion care for him & actually loved him. He was younger than the actor who portrayed him in First Contact. He was a level headed man who had been gone so long he didn't know about the advances in warp technology since he left Earth. Frakes should have remained true to the character of the original series as he was a part of the Star Trek lore himself & knew about the Trek legacy. Instead we have this brilliant older man who is an alcoholic social misfit who has put together a ship to test Warp Drive with old screws & duct tape after a World War. And he needed Ryker & LaForge to help him. That was the only part I didn't like.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Love FC. As for needing help, well the ship was damaged and whose to say they would not want a ride on the Titanic either?

[The Unknown Poster]

4 minutes ago, iso_55 said:

Cochrane was always this revered character & in the original series. He had crashed on an uncharted planet & had an alien Companion care for him & actually loved him. He was younger than the actor who portrayed him in First Contact. He was a level headed man who had been gone so long he didn't know about the advances in warp technology since he left Earth. Frakes should have remained true to the character of the original series as he was a part of the Star Trek lore himself & knew about the Trek legacy. Instead we have this brilliant older man who is an alcoholic social misfit who has put together a ship to test Warp Drive with old screws & duct tape after a World War. And he needed Ryker & LaForge to help him. That was the only part I didn't like.

Yeah I didnt mind using an old nuke.  I thought that was a neat message.  But they wanted more comedy and so they used Cochrane.  I didnt like that.  Should have kept him more revered.  He didnt have to be as stoic as the TOS actor who was as exciting as watching paint dry.  A happy medium would have been better.  The whole story was a bit odd in fact because Vulcan's decided to just land on Earth because they sensed the warp drive of his ship?  That doesnt seem like very wise first contact protocol. 

Plus, where were the Vulcan's when the Borg were attacking Earth or the Enterprise was in orbit?  But those were leaps in logic that I could accept because the rest of the film was good.  Its when the film is bad that those plot holes are maximized, like with STID.

[iso_55]

JJ Abrams alternate universe is a concept that I hate. Killing off the Vulcan race which was so pivotal to the Strar Trek franchise as well as very little to nothing of the Klingons & Romulans makes absolutely no sense to me. Making Kirk into this swashbuckling high risk Cowboy type captain was not truthful to his real character we saw in TOS. Yeah, he chased skirts & maybe ignored regulations at times but he worked hard to earn his captaincy. He believed in order, discipline & The Prime Directive & would sacrifice his life to uphold it. What does Kirk do in the movie? He violates the PD to save Spock thus exposing a primitive people to the Enterprise & they immediately start worshipping it as a God. The old Kirk may not have done that. He may have sacrificed Spock for the Prime Directive. And the way Kirk became Captain just weeks or months out of the Academy fighting his way into Big Chair over a much more older & experienced Spock stretched believability to the point of cartoonism. The second Abrams movie was better than the first but they need another producer to create a storyline to take them back to this universe & restore Vulcan like the explosion of the planet never happened.  Start giving us movie plots that include Klingons & Romulans.

Edited March 17, 2016 by iso_55

[Logan007]

49 minutes ago, iso_55 said:

Cochrane was always this revered character & in the original series. He had crashed on an uncharted planet & had an alien Companion care for him & actually loved him. He was younger than the actor who portrayed him in First Contact. He was a level headed man who had been gone so long he didn't know about the advances in warp technology since he left Earth. Frakes should have remained true to the character of the original series as he was a part of the Star Trek lore himself & knew about the Trek legacy. Instead we have this brilliant older man who is an alcoholic social misfit who has put together a ship to test Warp Drive with old screws & duct tape after a World War. And he needed Ryker & LaForge to help him. That was the only part I didn't like.

They only reason they helped him rebuild it was because they wrecked it and needed to rebuild it in time for when the Vulcan's pass by.  Also, the reason Ryker and LaForge joined him in the maiden voyage was that his crew mates who were supposed to fly with him got killed in the Borg attack.

Also, I didn't mind them showing him that he was in it only for the money.  You have to remember, they were still in a time where people used money and there probably wasn't a lot of jobs at the time.  Crap was happening all over the earth, so most people didn't have a great attitude about things.  I agree that the part could have been done better, but I'm fine with how he did it.

[Logan007]

45 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Plus, where were the Vulcan's when the Borg were attacking Earth or the Enterprise was in orbit?  But those were leaps in logic that I could accept because the rest of the film was good.  Its when the film is bad that those plot holes are maximized, like with STID.

They explain that in the movie.  They weren't scanning for warp signatures, and it just happened to be because they were in the vicinity that they happened to pick up on the warp signature of Cochrane's ship.  The technology, even for the Vulcan's, was not as advanced as it would be by their actual time, so their scanners probably didn't have the range to pick up the Borg or Enterprise until they were close enough.

[The Unknown Poster]

11 minutes ago, Logan007 said:

They only reason they helped him rebuild it was because they wrecked it and needed to rebuild it in time for when the Vulcan's pass by.  Also, the reason Ryker and LaForge joined him in the maiden voyage was that his crew mates who were supposed to fly with him got killed in the Borg attack.

Also, I didn't mind them showing him that he was in it only for the money.  You have to remember, they were still in a time where people used money and there probably wasn't a lot of jobs at the time.  Crap was happening all over the earth, so most people didn't have a great attitude about things.  I agree that the part could have been done better, but I'm fine with how he did it.

I always took his money argument as being a put on from a guy who was nervous and more humble than he let on.  Remember how he reacted when Laforge told him about the statue.  He was afraid of the importance that would come with being the first Warp capable human.  So he gave Riker a line about money.  Riker responded with the quote about being a great man to remind Cochrane that he knows its not true.

 

11 minutes ago, Logan007 said:

They explain that in the movie.  They weren't scanning for warp signatures, and it just happened to be because they were in the vicinity that they happened to pick up on the warp signature of Cochrane's ship.  The technology, even for the Vulcan's, was not as advanced as it would be by their actual time, so their scanners probably didn't have the range to pick up the Borg or Enterprise until they were close enough.

Yeah, to a degree.  But for Vulcan's to be near earth, they are pretty advanced.  It just seemed weird they wouldnt pick up the Enterprise orbiting Earth.  Again, I can overlook it.  But if we wanted to nitpick we could.

 

35 minutes ago, iso_55 said:

JJ Abrams alternate universe is a concept that I hate. Killing off the Vulcan race which was so pivotal to the Strar Trek franchise as well as very little to nothing of the Klingons & Romulans makes absolutely no sense to me. Making Kirk into this swashbuckling high risk Cowboy type captain was not truthful to his real character we saw in TOS. Yeah, he chased skirts & maybe skirted regulations but he worked hard to earn his captaincy. He believed in order, discipline & The Prime Directive & would sacrifice his life to uphold it. What does Kirk do in the movie? He violates the PD to save Spock thus exposing a primitive people to the Enterprise & they immediately start worshipping it as a God. The old Kirk may not have done that. He may have sacrificed Spock for the Prime Directive. And the way Kirk became Captain just weeks or months out of the Academy fighting his way into Big Chair over a much more older & experienced Spock stretched believability to the point of cartoonism. The second Abrams movie was better than the first but they need another producer to create a storyline to take them back to this universe & restore Vulcan like the explosion of the planet never happened.  Start giving us movie plots that include Klingons & Romulans.

Agree whole-heartedly.  And I've argued with Bob Orci about this many times.  The first film was ok, able to overlook some issues but STID was so awful it made the first one worse in retrospect.  They just didnt know the character.  Their Kirk was the stereotype of James Kirk in popular culture not the actual character.  Same with Spock really.  Bones was the best of the lot in the 09 film but in STID he was a parody, rattling off one liners.

They forgot the most important thing about Kirk-Spock-Bones.  Spock & Bones were basically the devil and angel on Kirk's shoulder, the logic vs emotion.  And Kirk was the very complicated combination of them both, a guy who used both logic and emotion to his advantage.  He was a cowboy but a diplomat too.  You could say he was the reason Starfleet made rules like the Prime Directive because no one else could be trusted to make the decisions he did. 

In TOS, Kirk was described as a cadet who was a stack of books with legs.  I think JJ went the easy route with the sterotype of a young rebel without a cause.  If it was me, I would have kept the opening with the Kelvin but made it the Enterprise from TOS with Robert April as captain.  Destroy it as seen in the movie.  Young Kirk doesnt grow up with an absent mother and jerk step father.  Instead his mother never re-marries, is devoted to Kirk, instilling in him the values we would later see.  But the shadow of Kirk's father looms over him.  George was now a hero and the new Enterprise was constructed in the middle of Iowa because it was George's hometown.  Kirk was always looking to the stars but never went because of his mother's fear of losing James too.  So Kirk sacrificed the destiny that was pulling at him.

Make Pike more of an Obi Wan type, a guy who is "around", someone James loves because of the stories of being in space, someone that maybe Kirk's mother is hinted at having romantic feelings for but also resents that he inspires James.  Pike implores her to let Kirk follow his dreams, she angrily refuses to risk losing him.  Pike gives her some words of wisdom.  Then gives Kirk the same but, staring off at the Enterprise being built, he says he cant go, cant disappoint his mother.  Finally, she relents, tells him he's meant for bigger things.  Follow your heart.  He joins the Academy.

I think that's more interesting.  And with a stronger sense of this unseen force of destiny pulling Kirk towards his rightful place.  At the academy he should be more serious, perhaps slightly awkward.  Someone the girls like but he's more focused on studies.  We see him evolve and gain confidence.  In fact, at the risk of making him a bit sleazy, he should come to realise his effect on women can help by "dating" a girl that gains him access to the Kobiashi Maru test, which he re-programs.  Sits up in bed with a beautiful young cadet, flashes the grin and says "I need a favour..."  Now he's learning something we would see him use later on.

In the film, he made a mockery of the Maru test and it was ridiculous.  In WoK he says he re-programmed the test so he could win, not so he couldn't lose.  End the film with Kirk getting his commendation for original thinking for beating the test and then being promoted to Lieutenant.  He goes off to the Farragut, his first assignment.  Spock goes off to the Enterprise with Pike.  The others, not so important.  But the idea is they go their separate ways.  But Spock Prime provides some final words of wisdom that indicate that destiny will bring them back together.

Way better *story*.

[Logan007]

29 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I always took his money argument as being a put on from a guy who was nervous and more humble than he let on.  Remember how he reacted when Laforge told him about the statue.  He was afraid of the importance that would come with being the first Warp capable human.  So he gave Riker a line about money.  Riker responded with the quote about being a great man to remind Cochrane that he knows its not true.

Yeah that's true.  Been a while since I've watched it.  I don't remember all the nuances.

[Logan007]

I hated the Klingon's in ID as well.  The Klingons in the ST tv shows all had uniqueness about them.  These Klingons all looked the same and wore that stupid headgear.  It just looked ridiculous.