Pav is starting to lose, back to Hutch ...

[gbill2004]

Pavelec has league average numbers, that's what he is. He's league average really and that's really all the Jets need to get in to the playoffs, you don't need all star goaltending night in night out, and if you think you do, no team gets that except maybe Montreal and even every now and then Price craps the bed too, I don't get this always blaming one guy that some people do. There are 6 guys on the ice including the goalie, Lets in a weak goal every game? What weak goal did he let in vs NYR or Chicago? the screened ones? the breakaways? the deflections? I mean, not the biggest PAV supporter but the guy has played pretty damn good this entire season really, The team in front of him tho, not so much some nights, Our goalies were standing on their heads for a while, both of them, we were winning games 3-2, 2-1, etc. We weren't exactly lighting the lamp so to speak. This teams major problem is not the goaltending, It's the penalties, they lead the league in penalties and it's not even close, Buff actually leads the team in penalty minutes, To blame one guy tho is insane when there are 5 other guys on the ice always, Up until very recently, we had like one maybe 2 good lines, now we have some depth and what we see happening is the depth players (3rd and 4th lines) are actually stepping up but the top 2 lines have gone MIA for chunks of time. The team, they are pretty good 5 on 5, their possession numbers are like tops in the league with LA and other teams, but they take too many penalties and don't know how to win. You can blame the goalie, guess it's the easy thing to do, but reality is, the goalie is just one guy on the ice, there are 5 other guys out there too.. Put it this way really, we lead the league in penalty minutes by lots, if we took even lets say 1 less penalty a game, we'd probably have clinched a playoff spot by now cuz the PK isn't that good and when we get a chance on a powerplay, what happens? Nothing really, It's special teams that are our biggest weakness, it's not just one player that's for sure. The argument could easily be made that without PAV getting on his recent hot streak, this team wouldn't be fighting for a playoff spot even... Cuz the other guy (hutch) has been rather mediocre since the all star break.

Prior to this season Pavelec was well below league average, and you can't argue with that. Just look at his save percentage (league average is .915 and Pavelec's career save % is significantly below that).

In fact that save percentage shows that about every 3 games Pavelec lets in one extra goal, compared to a league average goalie. Think about that for a minute and how damaging that is to a teams success, considering how close games are in the NHL.

In a previous thread on this forum I posted links to websites with stats showing he's been the NHL's worst starting goalie over the last few years.

His recent hot streak has brought his stats up to about league average, but since then he's starting level off to his normal self, below average. If Pavelec had kept up a league average save % the last two games, we would have won both games. Last two games he was .875 and .833.

Prior to Pavelec's recent hot streak he was well below league average. He needed this hot streak just to make himself league average. Think about the anchor he's been this season prior to the hot streak. And now he's leveling off once again to below league average.

Pavelec has a hot streak every season, but always levels off to below league average. We're lucky his hot streak occurred when it did this year, during a playoff push, but he's showing he can't be relied upon now as he's leveling off. Playing fewer games this year will also help make his numbers look a little better.

He's an inconsistent, below average goalie who lets in soft goals at the worst possible times, and usually one softie per game. Pavelec is a good NHL backup, but is not a starter in the NHL. That's who he is.

So what is your opinion on Hutchinson? The numbers have been tanking big time since the break are you suggesting we bench both and put in Budaj?

No. I'm suggesting the Jets have a problem in net, and with goaltending being the most important position on the team, that's what's preventing the Jets from being an upper echelon team. Let's hope Hellebyuck is the real deal. Him as starter with Hutch as backup might be a nice combo, but still a lot of questions in net until we see Helly perform at the NHL level.

If the Jets had unlimited financial resources, I'd say buyout Pavelec, sign an established free agent goaltender for 2 years until Helly is ready. By then you'd know what you have in Hutch, and possibly have seen a bit of Helly at the NHL level. Bottom line is Pavelec is not a starting calibre NHL goalie; every stat shows he's below league average.

[Brandon]

So what should the Jets do for this season? Just give up?

Maurice has to start someone?

[gbill2004]

So what should the Jets do for this season? Just give up?

Maurice has to start someone?

Short term I guess you start the hot hand; and I'm not convinced that's Pavelec anymore. My concern is Pavelec's contract is holding this team back for the next two season, when we are primed in every other area of the team to make some serious noise.

[Brandon]

So what should the Jets do for this season? Just give up?

Maurice has to start someone?

Short term I guess you start the hot hand; and I'm not convinced that's Pavelec anymore. My concern is Pavelec's contract is holding this team back for the next two season, when we are primed in every other area of the team to make some serious noise.

This club is primed? We have lots of young talent but far from any real superstars. This club is far from "peak" and even if we had a rock solid goalie I wouldn't think the club would be a cup contender.

[Ducky]

He kept us in the game in the 1st period.

[gbill2004]

He kept us in the game in the 1st period.

And then he let in 4 goals and ended the game with a .867 save percentage. Yep, Pavs is back to his usual terrible self. Glad we were able to win in spite of Pavelec, but we're not going to score 5 goals every game. Jets simply need better from their goaltending.

[Brandon]

He kept us in the game in the 1st period.

And then he let in 4 goals and ended the game with a .867 save percentage. Yep, Pavs is back to his usual terrible self. Glad we were able to win in spite of Pavelec, but we're not going to score 5 goals every game. Jets simply need better from their goaltending.

So who do they play now then?

Who do they sign in the off season?

[The Unknown Poster]

Pavs contract isn't really an issue when our back up is still on an entry level deal. Pavs deal isn't even that bad

[gbill2004]

He kept us in the game in the 1st period.

And then he let in 4 goals and ended the game with a .867 save percentage. Yep, Pavs is back to his usual terrible self. Glad we were able to win in spite of Pavelec, but we're not going to score 5 goals every game. Jets simply need better from their goaltending.

So who do they play now then?

Who do they sign in the off season?

Like I said in an earlier post, we're stuck playing the hot hand now. And it's too bad but I think we're stuck with Pavs for the final 2 years of his contract since TNSE won't buy him out. If we could get out of Pavelec's contract, I'm sure there's lots of options, either through free agency or trade. Just seems like we're stuck with an anchor in Pavelec for the next 2 seasons. Not sure if Hutch is the answer and sounds like Hellebuyck isn't ready yet.

[Ducky]

 

He kept us in the game in the 1st period.

And then he let in 4 goals and ended the game with a .867 save percentage. Yep, Pavs is back to his usual terrible self. Glad we were able to win in spite of Pavelec, but we're not going to score 5 goals every game. Jets simply need better from their goaltending.

 

How many odd man rushes did the Jets give up today...were we watching the same game? Which goals woudl you blame on Pavs??? Just wondering...

[gbill2004]

Pavs contract isn't really an issue when our back up is still on an entry level deal. Pavs deal isn't even that bad

So you think $4 million per season for a backup goalie is reasonable? If Pavelec were a league average goalie I'd have no problem with his contract. But Pavs is below league average. Over his career he lets in one additional goal every 3rd game, compared to a league average goalie. That's crippling.

[Mr. Perfect]

 

So what should the Jets do for this season? Just give up?

Maurice has to start someone?

Short term I guess you start the hot hand; and I'm not convinced that's Pavelec anymore. My concern is Pavelec's contract is holding this team back for the next two season, when we are primed in every other area of the team to make some serious noise.

 

When you have 30 teams as you do in the NHL, you're not going to have elite, or even good or average goaltending on some teams. All it takes is one team willing to deal, and as was seen when David Clarkson was moved by the Leafs (Yes not a goaltender - but a brutal contract, one MUCH worse than Pavelec's), anything is possible when it comes to trades. To suggest the contract is holding the team back or is unmovable, however you want to put it is just simply not correct.

[Mr. Perfect]

 

He kept us in the game in the 1st period.

And then he let in 4 goals and ended the game with a .867 save percentage. Yep, Pavs is back to his usual terrible self. Glad we were able to win in spite of Pavelec, but we're not going to score 5 goals every game. Jets simply need better from their goaltending.

 

Convenient how you ignored all of the odd man rushes in the game, especially in the second period (recall the Vrbata breakaway late in the second for example?). Pavelec made a number of big saves to bail out his blue liners. The Jets committed TWENTY turnovers - TWENTY and you want to blame the goalie. Hilarious.

[Rich]

 

Pavs contract isn't really an issue when our back up is still on an entry level deal. Pavs deal isn't even that bad

So you think $4 million per season for a backup goalie is reasonable? If Pavelec were a league average goalie I'd have no problem with his contract. But Pavs is below league average. Over his career he lets in one additional goal every 3rd game, compared to a league average goalie. That's crippling.

 

 

 

League average salary (not cap hit) for starting goalies is $5.16M   Pavelecs salary is $3.75M

 

He ranks 21st in terms of salary for starting goalies.  He is pretty much where he belongs.  You can't look at things in a fishbowl and complain how much we pay him, but it was a very reasonable salary they signed him to when he was still a younger goalie with potential.  His salary doesn't handcuff the team.  

 

If we were paying him $6.7M this year and $6.8M next year like Cam Ward makes, you'd have more reason to complain at his salary. 

[gbill2004]

He kept us in the game in the 1st period.

And then he let in 4 goals and ended the game with a .867 save percentage. Yep, Pavs is back to his usual terrible self. Glad we were able to win in spite of Pavelec, but we're not going to score 5 goals every game. Jets simply need better from their goaltending.

Convenient how you ignored all of the odd man rushes in the game, especially in the second period. Pavelec made a number of big saves to bail out his blue liners.

Ya that's called doing your job. Is Pavelec the only goalie who ever has to deal with odd man rushes? Every goalie deals with odd man rushes every game. That's the stupidest point in this thread. Guy has 5 years of NHL stats proving he's below league average. He is who he is.

[gbill2004]

So what should the Jets do for this season? Just give up?

Maurice has to start someone?

Short term I guess you start the hot hand; and I'm not convinced that's Pavelec anymore. My concern is Pavelec's contract is holding this team back for the next two season, when we are primed in every other area of the team to make some serious noise.

When you have 30 teams as you do in the NHL, you're not going to have elite, or even good or average goaltending on some teams. All it takes is one team willing to deal, and as was seen when David Clarkson was moved by the Leafs (Yes not a goaltender - but a brutal contract, one MUCH worse than Pavelec's), anything is possible when it comes to trades. To suggest the contract is holding the team back or is unmovable, however you want to put it is just simply not correct.

I'd love it if you're right and we could trade him. I highly doubt it though.

[gbill2004]

Pavs contract isn't really an issue when our back up is still on an entry level deal. Pavs deal isn't even that bad

So you think $4 million per season for a backup goalie is reasonable? If Pavelec were a league average goalie I'd have no problem with his contract. But Pavs is below league average. Over his career he lets in one additional goal every 3rd game, compared to a league average goalie. That's crippling.

 

 

League average salary (not cap hit) for starting goalies is $5.16M   Pavelecs salary is $3.75M

 

He ranks 21st in terms of salary for starting goalies.  He is pretty much where he belongs.  You can't look at things in a fishbowl and complain how much we pay him, but it was a very reasonable salary they signed him to when he was still a younger goalie with potential.  His salary doesn't handcuff the team.  

 

If we were paying him $6.7M this year and $6.8M next year like Cam Ward makes, you'd have more reason to complain at his salary.

Fine then, forget about his salary. Point is we're paying him as a starter and he plain sucks. He's terrible and his stats prove it. I'm shocked how many Jets fans on here are supportive of having a terrible goaltender.

[Ducky]

 

 

 

He kept us in the game in the 1st period.

And then he let in 4 goals and ended the game with a .867 save percentage. Yep, Pavs is back to his usual terrible self. Glad we were able to win in spite of Pavelec, but we're not going to score 5 goals every game. Jets simply need better from their goaltending.

Convenient how you ignored all of the odd man rushes in the game, especially in the second period. Pavelec made a number of big saves to bail out his blue liners.

Ya that's called doing your job. Is Pavelec the only goalie who ever has to deal with odd man rushes? Every goalie deals with odd man rushes every game. That's the stupidest point in this thread. Guy has 5 years of NHL stats proving he's below league average. He is who he is.

 

And you are who you are...someone that is never satisfied and complains whether he has a legit reason or not. What's the matter, your husband isn't listening to you any more so yo have to come on here and complain?

[Mr. Perfect]

 

 

 

He kept us in the game in the 1st period.

And then he let in 4 goals and ended the game with a .867 save percentage. Yep, Pavs is back to his usual terrible self. Glad we were able to win in spite of Pavelec, but we're not going to score 5 goals every game. Jets simply need better from their goaltending.

Convenient how you ignored all of the odd man rushes in the game, especially in the second period. Pavelec made a number of big saves to bail out his blue liners.

Ya that's called doing your job. Is Pavelec the only goalie who ever has to deal with odd man rushes? Every goalie deals with odd man rushes every game. That's the stupidest point in this thread. Guy has 5 years of NHL stats proving he's below league average. He is who he is.

 

No, the stupidest point in this thread is how you want to blame a goaltender for his goals against in today's game when we are without our top defenceman, arguably our third or fourth defenceman, and our second best d-man down the stretch. Is Pavelec the only one to face odd man rushes? Of course not. Hi Captain Obvious. That being said, those saves is what allows your team to stay out in front as often as they did. You want to give chances like that to Vrbata, Burrows, and the Sedins all game? Good luck with that.

 

There's differences of opinion, and then there's just simply not understanding the game you're pretending to know so much about. Unfortunately for you, you fall into the latter. 

[Mr. Perfect]

 

 

 

Pavs contract isn't really an issue when our back up is still on an entry level deal. Pavs deal isn't even that bad

So you think $4 million per season for a backup goalie is reasonable? If Pavelec were a league average goalie I'd have no problem with his contract. But Pavs is below league average. Over his career he lets in one additional goal every 3rd game, compared to a league average goalie. That's crippling.

 

 

League average salary (not cap hit) for starting goalies is $5.16M   Pavelecs salary is $3.75M

 

He ranks 21st in terms of salary for starting goalies.  He is pretty much where he belongs.  You can't look at things in a fishbowl and complain how much we pay him, but it was a very reasonable salary they signed him to when he was still a younger goalie with potential.  His salary doesn't handcuff the team.  

 

If we were paying him $6.7M this year and $6.8M next year like Cam Ward makes, you'd have more reason to complain at his salary.

Fine then, forget about his salary. Point is we're paying him as a starter and he plain sucks. He's terrible and his stats prove it. I'm shocked how many Jets fans on here are supportive of having a terrible goaltender.

 

Missed the point again. No one is advocating for keeping him the duration of his deal. In fact I'd be willing to bet that most of the people on this board and Jets fans in general would be happy if we moved him in the offseason. That being said RIGHT NOW he is the best we have, and when you consider as Rich said that he's 21st in salary for starting goalies, it's not that hard to move him.

[gbill2004]

He kept us in the game in the 1st period.

And then he let in 4 goals and ended the game with a .867 save percentage. Yep, Pavs is back to his usual terrible self. Glad we were able to win in spite of Pavelec, but we're not going to score 5 goals every game. Jets simply need better from their goaltending.

Convenient how you ignored all of the odd man rushes in the game, especially in the second period. Pavelec made a number of big saves to bail out his blue liners.

Ya that's called doing your job. Is Pavelec the only goalie who ever has to deal with odd man rushes? Every goalie deals with odd man rushes every game. That's the stupidest point in this thread. Guy has 5 years of NHL stats proving he's below league average. He is who he is.

And you are who you are...someone that is never satisfied and complains whether he has a legit reason or not. What's the matter, your husband isn't listening to you any more so yo have to come on here and complain?

So the stats show he's terrible, and I'm the one whose complaining? You're telling me you're satisfied having one of the worst starting goaltenders in the NHL? Well I'm not.

[Rich]

 

 

 

Pavs contract isn't really an issue when our back up is still on an entry level deal. Pavs deal isn't even that bad

So you think $4 million per season for a backup goalie is reasonable? If Pavelec were a league average goalie I'd have no problem with his contract. But Pavs is below league average. Over his career he lets in one additional goal every 3rd game, compared to a league average goalie. That's crippling.

 

 

League average salary (not cap hit) for starting goalies is $5.16M   Pavelecs salary is $3.75M

 

He ranks 21st in terms of salary for starting goalies.  He is pretty much where he belongs.  You can't look at things in a fishbowl and complain how much we pay him, but it was a very reasonable salary they signed him to when he was still a younger goalie with potential.  His salary doesn't handcuff the team.  

 

If we were paying him $6.7M this year and $6.8M next year like Cam Ward makes, you'd have more reason to complain at his salary.

Fine then, forget about his salary. Point is we're paying him as a starter and he plain sucks. He's terrible and his stats prove it. I'm shocked how many Jets fans on here are supportive of having a terrible goaltender.

 

 

Not really a Pavelec supporter.  He is too inconsistent. He has bad instincts on what he does when the puck is behind the net.  Don't think he will be here past the end of this contract.

[gbill2004]

He kept us in the game in the 1st period.

And then he let in 4 goals and ended the game with a .867 save percentage. Yep, Pavs is back to his usual terrible self. Glad we were able to win in spite of Pavelec, but we're not going to score 5 goals every game. Jets simply need better from their goaltending.

Convenient how you ignored all of the odd man rushes in the game, especially in the second period. Pavelec made a number of big saves to bail out his blue liners.

Ya that's called doing your job. Is Pavelec the only goalie who ever has to deal with odd man rushes? Every goalie deals with odd man rushes every game. That's the stupidest point in this thread. Guy has 5 years of NHL stats proving he's below league average. He is who he is.

No, the stupidest point in this thread is how you want to blame a goaltender for his goals against in today's game when we are without our top defenceman, arguably our third or fourth defenceman, and our second best d-man down the stretch. Is Pavelec the only one to face odd man rushes? Of course not. Hi Captain Obvious. That being said, those saves is what allows your team to stay out in front as often as they did. You want to give chances like that to Vrbata, Burrows, and the Sedins all game? Good luck with that.

There's differences of opinion, and then there's just simply not understanding the game you're pretending to know so much about. Unfortunately for you, you fall into the latter.

Sorry man, you just don't get it. There's so many holes in your argument here. Pavelec has 5 years of statistics proving he's not an NHL calibre goalie.

Read these if you don't believe me (there are many more...):

http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2014/2/4/5377382/ondrej-pavelec-and-the-possibility-of-a-buy-out

http://m.thn.com/blog/ondrej-pavelec-the-worst-decision-the-winnipeg-jets-have-made-so-far/

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2205284-cautionary-tale-how-the-winnipeg-jets-ended-up-with-the-nhls-worst-goaltending

http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2013/3/6/4000798/winnipeg-jets-ondrej-pavelec-overpaid

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/ondrej-pavelecs-goalie-play-is-the-winnipeg-jets-main-issue/

[Brandon]

I don't think anyone disagrees with Pavs being underwhelming.

I just don't see the point of complaining about his play when the team is giving away lots of odd man rushes and when Hutch blew his chance at being the #1 guy.

Right now he is the best option. Two years from now he will be gone and Hellebuyck and Comrie will be the tandem... So until then we are stuck with him.

[gbill2004]

I don't think anyone disagrees with Pavs being underwhelming.

I just don't see the point of complaining about his play when the team is giving away lots of odd man rushes and when Hutch blew his chance at being the #1 guy.

Right now he is the best option. Two years from now he will be gone and Hellebuyck and Comrie will be the tandem... So until then we are stuck with him.

I don't disagree that we're likely stuck with him another 2 years.