White Cop Shoots Black Man, Charged With Murder

[Fatty Liver]

 

 

 

So everytime the police attempt to make an arrest, a person should fight and run.  Every single time.  Because the police cant do anything about it.  Dont fight a cop, dont get shot.  That's the simplicity of it.

 

It's tragic, moreso because the victim was the architect of his own demise.  The cop didnt murder anyone.  Whether he acted in accordance with his training and proper procedure is yet to be determined.

 

People that know more then you and i have charged him with murder. Held without bond yet.

 

I havent watched not one cop or anyone for that matter say that.

 

Maybe a jury will say its not murder ,,, but the fact is hes been charged with it and not only that but held with no bond.

 

Police often over-charge.  It's a technique.  That's why you will read about people being charged with multiple counts relating to the same offense and then end up pleading to one of them or only one or two actually remaining when it goes to trial.

 

Keep in mind as well that this was an extremely fast arrest.  Video surfaced and he was immediately charged.  Murder would be the reflex charge.  manslaughter would be a charge you'd consider after investigating.  Again, as I wrote earlier, CNN reported that "Murder" in that location requires pre-meditation (or, if I recall, some other factor which I think they thought of as a race-based killing in this case).  No one is arguing the cop planned it and the longer this goes the more it seems it was not racially motivated.

 

I dont believe the officer has had a court date yet.  We'll see if the charge sticks.  If it does, you watch, the DA will ask the judge to let the jury consider manslaughter as well.

 

But we're talking opinion.  We dont have all the facts, only what has been released.  Was that murder?  No.  Was it murder when the 73 year old volunteer accidently shot a suspect?  No and no one is suggesting it was.

 

I wasn't going to continue to discuss this with you because I really don't see any point, but I will point out one obvious thing.  For a criminal charge, the intent of the suspect is in almost all cases, critical to determining what, if any, charge is to be laid.  In the case of the 73 year old, it would appear, on the face of it, that he had no intent to cause death.  He thought he was going to discharge his taser.  In the case of the SC officer, he knew he had his gun in hand and he fired at a fleeing suspect, not once, not twice, but eight times.  Clearly his intent was entirely different.  

 

 

 

Surprised the charge of murder is all inclusive and that they don't make the distinction between first-degree and second-degree murder.  Is that only in the Canadian justice system?  Man-slaughter is usually reserved for accidental death caused by the perpetrator with no intent, not sure that applies in this case.

 

Second point regarding the eight shots, I believe it comes down to police training.  They don't count their bullets, they shoot until the suspect either "stops or drops" and in this instance it appears to have taken the full clip.

[New_Earth_Mud]

 

 

So everytime the police attempt to make an arrest, a person should fight and run.  Every single time.  Because the police cant do anything about it.  Dont fight a cop, dont get shot.  That's the simplicity of it.

 

It's tragic, moreso because the victim was the architect of his own demise.  The cop didnt murder anyone.  Whether he acted in accordance with his training and proper procedure is yet to be determined.

 

People that know more then you and i have charged him with murder. Held without bond yet.

 

I havent watched not one cop or anyone for that matter say that.

 

Maybe a jury will say its not murder ,,, but the fact is hes been charged with it and not only that but held with no bond.

 

Police often over-charge.  It's a technique.  That's why you will read about people being charged with multiple counts relating to the same offense and then end up pleading to one of them or only one or two actually remaining when it goes to trial.

 

Keep in mind as well that this was an extremely fast arrest.  Video surfaced and he was immediately charged.  Murder would be the reflex charge.  manslaughter would be a charge you'd consider after investigating.  Again, as I wrote earlier, CNN reported that "Murder" in that location requires pre-meditation (or, if I recall, some other factor which I think they thought of as a race-based killing in this case).  No one is arguing the cop planned it and the longer this goes the more it seems it was not racially motivated.

 

I dont believe the officer has had a court date yet.  We'll see if the charge sticks.  If it does, you watch, the DA will ask the judge to let the jury consider manslaughter as well.

 

But we're talking opinion.  We dont have all the facts, only what has been released.  Was that murder?  No.  Was it murder when the 73 year old volunteer accidently shot a suspect?  No and no one is suggesting it was.

 

 

Well i cant agree with any of this.

 

Over charge? Not in this case. And heres why.....

 

Immanent danger. For whatever reason you seem to want to over look this part. The danger to the cop was over and he had no reason to think this guy would run off and kill other people. Its been said on CNN over n over again by all the cops and lawyers. He was unarmed when he ran away. That is simply just fact.

 

Was a guy on CNN who has been training cops for 35 years... He says that cop was absolutely wrong giving chase. He said his job should have been at the point of the guy running was to radio in the description - direction the guy ran and then he should have secured the passenger and car. The reason for this was because he was alone and had no idea whats in the car or what the passenger would or could do. If there were 2 cops then yes 1 gives chase the other secures the car and passenger.

 

Now to be fair the guy did point out that different states have some different training but he made it pretty clear that cop did the wrong thing. He said its not in any cops training to radio in back up and say come secure this car and guy while i go run around after some guy that ran.

 

I just think this cop was a bad cop.....  and i dont mean he was crooked i mean he was horrible at his job. I pointed out before that i didnt think he should have ran after the guy with the car there and passenger still in it. Think about it.... the cops there... cars there.... passengers there he should have secured that first. Let backup get the running dude.

 

I dont think race was involved,,,, I think he was horrible at his job.... lost control over the whole situation and it went to hell quick like.

 

And IMO with cameras all over now and more coming we are going to see alot more cops that are bad at their jobs.

[Jpan85]

A funny aside. In the case of the 73 old guy the reporter they have been interviewing on CNN who works at the Tulsa World newspaper is in my fantasy baseball league

[Brandon]

I always find these stories and threads interesting. The solution is always so simple... Listen and obey to whatever a policeman orders you to do and don't commit crimes!

It is extremely rare of a person who is innocent and doing nothing for them to get killed by a policeman.

Such a simple rule set to live by..

[The Unknown Poster]

I always find these stories and threads interesting. The solution is always so simple... Listen and obey to whatever a policeman orders you to do and don't commit crimes!

It is extremely rare of a person who is innocent and doing nothing for them to get killed by a policeman.

Such a simple rule set to live by..

It seems obvious doesnt it?

 

I dont think anyone is disputing the officer was wrong to shoot under the circumstances as we know them.  But the narrative of an angry racist cop looking to kill a poor innocent guy doesnt really fit either. 

[Fatty Liver]

Anyone know if there was a toxicology test done on the victim?  It might help explain why he made some of the piss poor decisions he made on that fateful day.  (Same goes for the officer for that matter) Having a lengthy criminal record, being black and even semi-streetwise should have given him ample fore-warning that there was a reasonable possibility of being shot when he chose to resist arrest, twice.  Regardless of the interpretation of the law a healthier sense of self-preservation could have avoided this tragedy imo.

[The Unknown Poster]

I had a cop point a gun at me once.  And I remember thinking after the fact, I wonder how close I was to being shot...what could I have done that would have resulted in him pulling the trigger.  He didnt.  Then again, I didnt assault him, try to take his weapon and run away.

[Atomic]

I always find these stories and threads interesting. The solution is always so simple... Listen and obey to whatever a policeman orders you to do and don't commit crimes!

It is extremely rare of a person who is innocent and doing nothing for them to get killed by a policeman.

Such a simple rule set to live by..

Yeah but you're a nerd. You were probably ratting kids out in high school and feeling pretty self righteous about it. Doesn't mean that's the right way to live.

[Brandon]

I always find these stories and threads interesting. The solution is always so simple... Listen and obey to whatever a policeman orders you to do and don't commit crimes!

It is extremely rare of a person who is innocent and doing nothing for them to get killed by a policeman.

Such a simple rule set to live by..

Yeah but you're a nerd. You were probably ratting kids out in high school and feeling pretty self righteous about it. Doesn't mean that's the right way to live.

Not even close. Nice try!

[New_Earth_Mud]

Anyone know if there was a toxicology test done on the victim?  It might help explain why he made some of the piss poor decisions he made on that fateful day.  (Same goes for the officer for that matter) Having a lengthy criminal record, being black and even semi-streetwise should have given him ample fore-warning that there was a reasonable possibility of being shot when he chose to resist arrest, twice.  Regardless of the interpretation of the law a healthier sense of self-preservation could have avoided this tragedy imo.

 

Who?

 

Dude that was shot in the back had no lengthy criminal record. He had a warrent for unpaid child support. He was like 50 and served the country as some sorta reservist.

 

 

Now the 73 is found out he hasent even been trained to use a gun.

 

 

And now this new thing with some guy some how ended up with a 80% severed spinal cord and dead on his way to a hospital.   Cops said he was fine on his way into the van ... yet a video comes out the guys screaming and cant walk. Cops said he was arrested cuz he had a knife and the Mayor is on CNN says its not even illegal to have a knife.

 

Im not saying this has anything to do with race.....  Its just shitty cops. 

[The Unknown Poster]

I believe he did have a lengthy criminal record. He had outstanding warrants. Let's pretend he didn't. Is it okay to run, fight, assault a cop, try to wrest control of a weapon? Is the cop supposed to know about his record through osmosis?

[New_Earth_Mud]

I believe he did have a lengthy criminal record. He had outstanding warrants. Let's pretend he didn't. Is it okay to run, fight, assault a cop, try to wrest control of a weapon? Is the cop supposed to know about his record through osmosis?

 

Again you add things that we dont know and not true.

 

Do you think its right that cops can just go kill anyone that runs? That should become standard practice. Just shoot them dead.

 

I dont agree with running and fighting ...  but i dont think it requires being shot dead.

[New_Earth_Mud]

I had a cop point a gun at me once.  And I remember thinking after the fact, I wonder how close I was to being shot...what could I have done that would have resulted in him pulling the trigger.  He didnt.  Then again, I didnt assault him, try to take his weapon and run away.

 

Again  Its about you.

 

Should be based off fact and not we assume

[Brandon]

 

I believe he did have a lengthy criminal record. He had outstanding warrants. Let's pretend he didn't. Is it okay to run, fight, assault a cop, try to wrest control of a weapon? Is the cop supposed to know about his record through osmosis?

 

Again you add things that we dont know and not true.

 

Do you think its right that cops can just go kill anyone that runs? That should become standard practice. Just shoot them dead.

 

I dont agree with running and fighting ...  but i dont think it requires being shot dead.

 

 

So are you suggesting that police should not carry a gun or are you suggesting that they should shoot and "not kill" someone? 

[The Unknown Poster]

I had a cop point a gun at me once. And I remember thinking after the fact, I wonder how close I was to being shot...what could I have done that would have resulted in him pulling the trigger. He didnt. Then again, I didnt assault him, try to take his weapon and run away.

Again Its about you.

Should be based off fact and not we assume

You've got a real big up your ass today don't you. Is it because you have no life experiences with which to draw wisdom from?

[The Unknown Poster]

I believe he did have a lengthy criminal record. He had outstanding warrants. Let's pretend he didn't. Is it okay to run, fight, assault a cop, try to wrest control of a weapon? Is the cop supposed to know about his record through osmosis?

Again you add things that we dont know and not true.

Do you think its right that cops can just go kill anyone that runs? That should become standard practice. Just shoot them dead.

I dont agree with running and fighting ... but i dont think it requires being shot dead.

What did I add that is not true? Criminal record? If you don't know his criminal record then it was you that added something you didn't know.

[johnzo]

To those people who say "just obey the cops and everything will be fine" -- what if the police are constantly harassing you?

You don't have to run or fight or be impolite to be treated like a criminal. You just have to have the right/wrong skin color. Check out this story from Toronto:

http://www.torontolife.com/informer/features/2015/04/21/skin-im-ive-interrogated-police-50-times-im-black/

This isn't policing. At best, this is hall monitoring. At worst, this is "papers, please."

[Taynted_Fayth]

my 2 cents; being a friend of the taman family, I don't trust or respect police.  Cant say 100% if this was racially motivated but you can definitely say the cop overreacted,  be it on a power trip or just fed up with a punk resisting arrest and on a bad day,  and for that the cop should be tried for murder 2,  probably would at most get manslaughter,  but reality is will get house arrest.

[The Unknown Poster]

my 2 cents; being a friend of the taman family, I don't trust or respect police.  Cant say 100% if this was racially motivated but you can definitely say the cop overreacted,  be it on a power trip or just fed up with a punk resisting arrest and on a bad day,  and for that the cop should be tried for murder 2,  probably would at most get manslaughter,  but reality is will get house arrest.

I think Im missing your point.  Do you mean Crystal Taman?  Who was killed when a drunk off duty cop rammed into the back of her?  That's not remotely the same. 

 

On a side note, Crystal's son became a cop.

[Taynted_Fayth]

Yes was referring to Crystal, I was a friend of her children, Tara, Kristin and Jordan (cop) - he was originally turned down due to the garbage going on within the force and that case fyi.  but anyways,  the insane amount of cover ups from the top down both with the WPS and East St. Paul police and even the prosecutor being the former cop lawyer,  it was movie worthy dirty.  My point was cops are no saints,  MANY wear a badge but a badge doesnt buy you a soul,  just a free pass it seems time and again across the world.  

 

I went on a road trip to Calgary with Tara and Kristin - along the way takin a leak on the welcome to sask. home of the 2007 GC champs sign at the MB/Sask boarder (its my riderfans.com avatar) and that inquiry was going down at that time, on our way back after hitting Llyod Minster I read i guess what would be a sort of affidavit to the case cuz it was a long drive back down the yellowhead, it was amazing how much bs the cops served up,  it eventually got them busted, but how do you have faith in the law with such corruption and filth

[Taynted_Fayth]

I believe this story had ppl trying to cover it up too, no?  that in itself to me is the first point of guilt, and ppl trying to save their brother in blue from doing hard time... 

[The Unknown Poster]

I dont disagree at all that police and law enforcement stick together.  As much as this will bother Earth, Ill refer to my own story briefly where I was wrongfully charged with a 100% made up crime because I got into an argument with a police officer that showed up to OUR call with a bad attitude.  He (and the other officers that showed up after him) allowed guys wearing gang logos who had physically assaulted me and others and uttered death threats to walk away without so much as asking for their names.  He lied in his statement and got his partner to lie.

 

He originally was going to charge me with assaulting him but when I pointed out the video cameras, he convinced several people who were involved in a fight and under threat of them being charged, to swear that they had been assaulted by me (never happened, I wasnt even involved).  The police tried to confiscate our video that very night and when we refused, they showed up two days later with a warrant and swat team.  Fortunately we had made copies because the cops refused, upon numerous requests, to turn the video over to the crown.

 

What they wanted to know from the video was, did it prove the cops were lying.  Did it prove the cops did anything wrong.  The fact it 100% exonerated me didnt matter to them.  I was able to get a copy of the report made by the police video guys who simply said the video showed nothing of interest.

 

I called Internal Affairs (PSU) to make a complaint and they claimed they watched the video but that it was too low quality to "see anything".  Oddly enough, the police had used the same quality video in previous cases and when people had complained about the cops...it wasnt too low quality then.  It wasnt low quality at all.  PSU refused to take my complaint.  They refused to read my complaint (which analyzed the video myself on a second by second basis and went through every line of the inaccurate police statements) and they refused to speak with me in person.

 

I filed a complaint with LERA who had the exact same attitude as PSU but got so frustrated with me refusing to let it go that the investigator snapped "then come down here right now and show me what Im missing".  So I did.  And she was shocked.  The video had several hundred people in it so it needed to be explained.  But she went off the police reports which were lies and assumed them to be true which means she just assumed certain people in the video were me.  When I went through it with her, she said you've got one of the strongest cases I've seen.  These officers flat out lied.  Remember, this wasnt to protect themselves.  This was because one cop had a bad day and was angry and argued with me.  So he set out to frame me for a crime he knew I didnt commit.  Dastardly.

 

The end result?  Even the crown was so frustrated with the police she threatened the Captain to provide the video or else.  Keep in mind we had our own copies which my lawyer argued should be sufficient under the circumstances but the crown took the position ours could be doctored.  So she finally got the video, agreed it exonerated me but would only drop the charges if I dropped my LERA complaint.  Now tell me why the crown was acting as de facto legal representation for the police?  Shouldnt the crown want all incidents of misconduct to be invesitgated?

 

I told my lawyer, screw it, lets call their bluff.  If it goes to trial at least I can show the cops are liars and I can call in favours to have the media cover it.  He said look, I guarantee this crown will go to trial out of spite.  She doesnt care.  It will cost you $10,000 and they will consider it a win.  You will most likely win but you never know...maybe you get a judge who's very sympathetic to the police.  And either way, every cop in town will know your face, name, address, lic number.  He said he's seen it before, do you want cops sitting outside your home?  Following you home from work?  What if you have a couple of beers after work?  You'll always be looking over your shoulder.

 

So yeah man, I KNOW how the cops act.  Biggest gang in the world.

 

But still, if I ran, assaulted, tried to steal a weapon, I'd expect to be shot.

 

Not all cops are bad.  In fact, in my case, the partner was so-so bad.  He let his partner drive the situation to a bad place.  He swore in a statement that backed up the lies.  But when questioned by LERA alone he admitted he couldnt "be sure" and "couldnt remember" which was as close to admitting his partner was a liar as he was willing to get.  The investigator was very excited about the hearing we would have ended up having and believe me, so was I because I would have been allowed to question them.  I had my Perry mason moment all ready to go.  ;-)

[New_Earth_Mud]

It dont bother me to use your experience to somewhat for an opinion dude. We all do that. Thats not a problem at all.

 

What i find to be the problem is you seem to want to ignore the facts and ad in stuff that either is simply not true or we just dont know. 

 

This is something you continue to say....

 

" But still, if I ran, assaulted, tried to steal a weapon, I'd expect to be shot. " .....Thats not any fact to anything in this case.

 

The guy ran..... Thats a fact.... We see him run.

 

Assault? Thats not a fact and hasent been mentioned at all. Even the cop never says it. Not one time has it been said there was any assault.

 

Steal a weapon? Only the cop says this. Both witnesses say thats not true.

 

Both witnesses say there was a tussle.... Im not sure what this means... Did the cop grab him and couldnt hold him and the guy ran again? Dont know but that seem to be what the witnesses are saying.

 

If there was an assault wouldnt you think that maybe the cop should mention that part?  I was assaulted and the guy tryed to get my weapon? But thats not what he says.

 

At some point during all this the cop never mentions an assault. Even when hes arrested he never says it. Youd think he might say... eh i have a bruise or scratch maybe take a pic of it.  But nope. Nadda.

 

Ive said all along that i dont think what the guy did was ok. It was absolutely the wrong thing to do. But its also no reason to be shot 5 times in the back.

 

Its murder.....  

[The Unknown Poster]

I can appreciate that opinion but you ignore facts all the time. It's selectice perception. Like the wrap sheet you wouldn't admit he had. There is common sense. The cop caught up to him and tried to deploy his stun gun. We see the altercation. The witnesses backed up the cops statement. Physically resisting a cop usually gets you an assault peace officer charge. The suspect likely wasn't trying to dance with him.

In a perfect world the cop doesn't Fire his weapon. In a perfect world this suspect doesn't have warrants. Doesn't run. Doesn't resist. Doesn't fight with the cop. Unfortunately it's not a perfect world.

My experience was to demonstrate that if anything I should be anti-cop. But I'm pro-facts.

[New_Earth_Mud]

I can appreciate that opinion but you ignore facts all the time. It's selectice perception. Like the wrap sheet you wouldn't admit he had. There is common sense. The cop caught up to him and tried to deploy his stun gun. We see the altercation. The witnesses backed up the cops statement. Physically resisting a cop usually gets you an assault peace officer charge. The suspect likely wasn't trying to dance with him.

In a perfect world the cop doesn't Fire his weapon. In a perfect world this suspect doesn't have warrants. Doesn't run. Doesn't resist. Doesn't fight with the cop. Unfortunately it's not a perfect world.

My experience was to demonstrate that if anything I should be anti-cop. But I'm pro-facts.

 

I ignore the wrap sheet because the cop didnt know that at the time of the shooting. It cant play a part in it.

 

Usually gets a assault charge? Its still not a fact to this case. Usually doesnt matter. Only facts matter. Cop cant say usually this happens so i shot him, Thats not the way it works.

 

He was either assaulted or he wasent....  He never mentions it.