JuranBoldenRules Posted April 8, 2015 Report Posted April 8, 2015 I'm guessing they don't technically own the land the stadium is on (UofM retained the rights to that?) But the stadium itself and all the equipment in it is an asset that they are getting equity in. Without the land, I'm not sure it will ever be worth similar to what they got when they sold the old stadium off, but they own the structure and all the assets inside. Equity to borrow money against to pay for the stadium. I think the effects of inflation are overstated. The costs to maintain/renovate the stadium when necessary will easily outpace inflation in the long-term. The governments will end up paying for the stadium in the end, and that's fine.
blue85gold Posted April 9, 2015 Report Posted April 9, 2015 $6.8 M in deferred revenue, I'd say they are just fine. Without having read the financial statements, that is likely just the money paid for 2015 season tickets and they grey cup. It is deferred until earned, when the games have actually happened.
kelownabomberfan Posted April 9, 2015 Report Posted April 9, 2015 So is this profit above and beyond the payment made to BBB? ie. They actually made $8.4 million? That seems unlikely. $4.5-$3.9 = $0.6 loss. That's not how accounting works. I know. Debt payments don't hit the income statement, they reduce the debt outstanding on the balance sheet. The only portion of a debt payment that hits the income statement is the interest portion of the payment, if there is any interest. Those here accusing the Bombers of "creative accounting" etc. don't know what they are talking about. They posted a $3.9 million profit. During a losing season. They put another $500K of cash into their emergency fund. All that means is that they had cash come in that covered their operating costs, paid the debt payment, and STILL had $500K left to throw into their emergency fund. All of this is GREAT NEWS and yet, why I am surprised there are people here that are pissing all over it. Just unbelievable. Noeller 1
kelownabomberfan Posted April 9, 2015 Report Posted April 9, 2015 Penton says they lost money... Kirk Penton @PentonKirk When you include the loan payment, the #Bombers actually lost $576,000 in 2014. #CFL and this is why Kirk Penton is a writer for the Sun, and not a CPA.
kelownabomberfan Posted April 9, 2015 Report Posted April 9, 2015 How about Wade release the real numbers that the team lost money this year and with the on-going debt servicing, unless we host a Grey Cup every year, it is not sustainable for long. He did release the real numbers. Just because you don't understand them doesn't make them not real.
Noeller Posted April 9, 2015 Report Posted April 9, 2015 So is this profit above and beyond the payment made to BBB? ie. They actually made $8.4 million? That seems unlikely. $4.5-$3.9 = $0.6 loss. That's not how accounting works. I know. Debt payments don't hit the income statement, they reduce the debt outstanding on the balance sheet. The only portion of a debt payment that hits the income statement is the interest portion of the payment, if there is any interest. Those here accusing the Bombers of "creative accounting" etc. don't know what they are talking about. They posted a $3.9 million profit. During a losing season. They put another $500K of cash into their emergency fund. All that means is that they had cash come in that covered their operating costs, paid the debt payment, and STILL had $500K left to throw into their emergency fund. All of this is GREAT NEWS and yet, why I am surprised there are people here that are pissing all over it. Just unbelievable. ...thanks for posting this. I was fairly certain there was a more logical answer than the ones being provided by armchair CPAs here...
The Unknown Poster Posted April 9, 2015 Report Posted April 9, 2015 Well there is no need to get insulting to those of us who arent accountants. Im sure I know my business better than you as you know yours better than me. Where did the money come from to pay the debt servicing? Their reserve fund?
gbill2004 Posted April 9, 2015 Report Posted April 9, 2015 Well there is no need to get insulting to those of us who arent accountants. Im sure I know my business better than you as you know yours better than me. Where did the money come from to pay the debt servicing? Their reserve fund? Yes they pulled about half a million out of the reserve, which I believe I read was at $1.6 million.
Goalie Posted April 9, 2015 Report Posted April 9, 2015 They made a profit of 3.9 million last season after expenses not including the debt payment, they had a reserve fund of 1.6 million, they took that 3.9 and 500,000 or so from the reserve fund and made the 4.5 million debt payment. They didn't lose money, they made 3.9 million.
pigseye Posted April 9, 2015 Report Posted April 9, 2015 $6.8 M in deferred revenue, I'd say they are just fine. Without having read the financial statements, that is likely just the money paid for 2015 season tickets and they grey cup. It is deferred until earned, when the games have actually happened. Yes, accrual accounting, it's revenue they received last year for this years sponsorship, boxes etc.
Fred C Dobbs Posted April 9, 2015 Report Posted April 9, 2015 Well there is no need to get insulting to those of us who arent accountants. Im sure I know my business better than you as you know yours better than me. Where did the money come from to pay the debt servicing? Their reserve fund? Yes they pulled about half a million out of the reserve, which I believe I read was at $1.6 million. Actually they added 500k to the reserve fund. It's a special 'rainy day fund' that they are committed to building up until it reaches $5M. It can't be touched without the approval of the Board of Governors. The $576k deficit that came about as a result of paying $4.5M to Triple B came out of 'Net Assets', which I assume includes the reserve fund, and came down from $7.95M to $7.37M. With the Grey Cup being here it should go up considerably this year.
gbill2004 Posted April 9, 2015 Report Posted April 9, 2015 So sounds like they have two reserve funds?? One general and the one with a $5 million cap that is specifically for stadium maintenance/upgrades.
Goalie Posted April 9, 2015 Report Posted April 9, 2015 Just out of curiosity how many sell-outs did we have last season? 2? 3? Add a couple more sell-outs and a playoff game and yeah, they probably easily make 4.5 and don't have to dip in to a "rainy day fund".
Fan Boy Posted April 9, 2015 Report Posted April 9, 2015 Just out of curiosity how many sell-outs did we have last season? 2? 3? Add a couple more sell-outs and a playoff game and yeah, they probably easily make 4.5 and don't have to dip in to a "rainy day fund". That is so optimistic I think you are in the wrong forum. Actually I share your optimism both on the on the field performance and the financial end as well. If a half decent team is put together for a few years, the fans will fill the stands for years. I think there is a pretty good shot that the loan payments could be made without dipping into reserves in the future. Given how much taxpayer subsidies professional sports has taken all over North America over the years, I think the Bombers have been pretty responsible in the debt they are taking on. How much did the Lions pay for the new roof in Vancouver for example?
Jpan85 Posted April 9, 2015 Report Posted April 9, 2015 Sell and extra 10,000 tickets over the year and that would do it.
mbrg Posted April 9, 2015 Report Posted April 9, 2015 So is this profit above and beyond the payment made to BBB? ie. They actually made $8.4 million? That seems unlikely. $4.5-$3.9 = $0.6 loss. That's not how accounting works. I know. Debt payments don't hit the income statement, they reduce the debt outstanding on the balance sheet. The only portion of a debt payment that hits the income statement is the interest portion of the payment, if there is any interest. Those here accusing the Bombers of "creative accounting" etc. don't know what they are talking about. They posted a $3.9 million profit. During a losing season. They put another $500K of cash into their emergency fund. All that means is that they had cash come in that covered their operating costs, paid the debt payment, and STILL had $500K left to throw into their emergency fund. All of this is GREAT NEWS and yet, why I am surprised there are people here that are pissing all over it. Just unbelievable. You must be new here. Welcome. SPuDS 1
gbill2004 Posted April 9, 2015 Report Posted April 9, 2015 So is this profit above and beyond the payment made to BBB? ie. They actually made $8.4 million? That seems unlikely. $4.5-$3.9 = $0.6 loss. That's not how accounting works. I know. Debt payments don't hit the income statement, they reduce the debt outstanding on the balance sheet. The only portion of a debt payment that hits the income statement is the interest portion of the payment, if there is any interest. Those here accusing the Bombers of "creative accounting" etc. don't know what they are talking about. They posted a $3.9 million profit. During a losing season. They put another $500K of cash into their emergency fund. All that means is that they had cash come in that covered their operating costs, paid the debt payment, and STILL had $500K left to throw into their emergency fund. All of this is GREAT NEWS and yet, why I am surprised there are people here that are pissing all over it. Just unbelievable. You must be new here. Welcome. Yep, a lot of d-bag comments on these forums lately.
SPuDS Posted April 9, 2015 Report Posted April 9, 2015 So is this profit above and beyond the payment made to BBB? ie. They actually made $8.4 million? That seems unlikely. $4.5-$3.9 = $0.6 loss. That's not how accounting works. I know. Debt payments don't hit the income statement, they reduce the debt outstanding on the balance sheet. The only portion of a debt payment that hits the income statement is the interest portion of the payment, if there is any interest. Those here accusing the Bombers of "creative accounting" etc. don't know what they are talking about. They posted a $3.9 million profit. During a losing season. They put another $500K of cash into their emergency fund. All that means is that they had cash come in that covered their operating costs, paid the debt payment, and STILL had $500K left to throw into their emergency fund. All of this is GREAT NEWS and yet, why I am surprised there are people here that are pissing all over it. Just unbelievable. You must be new here. Welcome. Yea the offseason really brings out the venom in some posters.. See, Winnipeg jets section.
kelownabomberfan Posted April 9, 2015 Report Posted April 9, 2015 Well there is no need to get insulting to those of us who arent accountants. Ok - sorry, but you were making some pretty unfounded accusations about a subject you don't know much about. Accusing the Bombers of using "Creative accounting" is actually a pretty serious accusation that you probably should be prepared to defend if you are going to throw it around. Where did the money come from to pay the debt servicing? Their reserve fund? I would say it came from cash flow.
Atomic Posted April 9, 2015 Report Posted April 9, 2015 So is this profit above and beyond the payment made to BBB? ie. They actually made $8.4 million? That seems unlikely. $4.5-$3.9 = $0.6 loss. That's not how accounting works. I know. Debt payments don't hit the income statement, they reduce the debt outstanding on the balance sheet. The only portion of a debt payment that hits the income statement is the interest portion of the payment, if there is any interest. Those here accusing the Bombers of "creative accounting" etc. don't know what they are talking about. They posted a $3.9 million profit. During a losing season. They put another $500K of cash into their emergency fund. All that means is that they had cash come in that covered their operating costs, paid the debt payment, and STILL had $500K left to throw into their emergency fund. All of this is GREAT NEWS and yet, why I am surprised there are people here that are pissing all over it. Just unbelievable. You must be new here. Welcome. Yea the offseason really brings out the venom in some posters.. See, Winnipeg jets section. That section is busier than this one right now. Lots of great discussion in there.
tacklewasher Posted April 10, 2015 Report Posted April 10, 2015 Well there is no need to get insulting to those of us who arent accountants. Ok - sorry, but you were making some pretty unfounded accusations about a subject you don't know much about. Accusing the Bombers of using "Creative accounting" is actually a pretty serious accusation that you probably should be prepared to defend if you are going to throw it around. Where did the money come from to pay the debt servicing? Their reserve fund? I would say it came from cash flow. Substantial increase in deferred revenue = cash came in we didn't have expenses against.
tacklewasher Posted April 10, 2015 Report Posted April 10, 2015 So sounds like they have two reserve funds?? One general and the one with a $5 million cap that is specifically for stadium maintenance/upgrades. There is the reserve of the WBB and then there is a reserve fund in the BBB. The BBB fund is not part of the F/S in the annual report, but is material and reported on in Note 7. So they made enough cash to pay down the $4M, plus the $500K to the BBB as well as put $500K into their own reserve fund. They also paid down $1.4M of their own debt. The cash came from $1.8M increase in deferred revenue and a ~$4M increase in Deferred contributions, plus results of operations. I'm not really sure what the deferred contributions are, and what the source of that cash was. Note 6. doesn't clarify that for me and I didn't go thorugh the whole MD&A.
blueandgoldguy Posted April 11, 2015 Report Posted April 11, 2015 Good news! Next year obviously won't be a problem with the Grey Cup in town. Should see significant contributions to the reserve fund. Following year might be challenging as the team will not receive $875, 000( my estimate) from the league for the Ottawa expansion team. Then again, if corporate sponsorships from the league continue to increase that may not be an issue. Also, the amount of money from the tv deal increases slightly each year if I'm not mistaken so that would close the gap. If we see a similar increase in the tv deal within 4 years, the annual debt payments should be easily paid off...assuming player salaries are kept under control. I wonder what the Bombers stand to make revenue-wise from the Women's World Cup? Just rent for the stadium? Does anyone know what gameday revenues entails? In the report the pie chart shows a portion for gameday revenues. It can't be concessions because there is a separate portion of the pie chart for that.
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