The future looks bright Jets fans ...

[kelownabomberfan]

They're all part of the Eberle trade.

Great - throw in Ladd, Little, Buff, Hutch, Myers and Morrissey and our first round picks for the next 20 years and you might have a starting point, at least according to some Oiler fans around here.

[Rich]

What about Postma? Pardy? Clitsome?

 

I think Clitsome's career is over due to his back.  Be surprised if he ever played another NHL game.

 

Postma is a 6 / 7 D-Man at best. He hasn't been able to show that he is more then that.  Plus he is RH, so with the depth he is behind, he just isn't going to get a chance.

 

Pardy is a UFA, and while I believe they will try to re-sign him, he is also a 3rd pairing DMan.

 

Enstrom / Chiarot /  Stuart /  Pardy / Harrisson  are your 4 - 5 LH D-men until Morrissey can make the team.  The problem is other then Enstrom, none of those guys really pop out as being able to play on a 1st pairing.  Chiarot had a good rookie season and is a nice physical D-Man but he is at best a stay at home D-Man on the 2nd pairing if he is with someone like Trouba / Byfuglien / Myers.  He can't hold down that 2nd pairing on his own.

 

As far as other D-Men prospects.   Jan Kostalek & Jack Glover are both RH    Kichton would probably be next on the depth chart on the left side after Morrissey

[Atomic]

I hope Chevy and Maurice read this thread so they can figure out how to solve all the Jets' problems.  Just move Trouba to the left side.  Problem solved. 

 

I can only assume it isnt that easy.  Rec league guys say "sure it is".  And yet the Jets didnt do that.

 

It's not ideal but every team does it occasionally.  Even the Jets this year... and last year... and the year before.

 

When you have one top 4 LHD and 3 top 4 RHD, it just makes sense to flip one to the other side.  Again, it's not ideal... but are we better off with Enstrom-Myers, Stuart-Trouba, Chiarot-Postma than we would be with Enstrom-Myers, Trouba-Buff, Stuart-Chiarot?  I don't think so.

[The Unknown Poster]

Clitty might be done.

 

Pardy is a decent 7-8 guy who is under contract.  Postma, I'd like to see work out.  He gives the Jets some options for the bottom paring for sure.  Myers, Trouba, Postma as our three RHD?  Or, as I've long thought, he might be trade bait.  Young puck moving d-man with upside.  The pens once fleeced Dallas with a similar player.

[The Unknown Poster]

Whoops, Rich you are right, Pardy is UFA.  Harrison is the contracted guy I was thinking of.  Probably let Pardy walk if only because they already have Harrison.  pardy is better but why have two guys under contract that rarely play?

[Atomic]

Whoops, Rich you are right, Pardy is UFA.  Harrison is the contracted guy I was thinking of.  Probably let Pardy walk if only because they already have Harrison.  pardy is better but why have two guys under contract that rarely play?

 

I'd look to have 8 defencemen under contract with the big club if possible.  I don't know what's going to happen with Clitsome but I wouldn't include him in any plans right now.  Then you have Enstrom, Byfuglien, Myers, Stuart, Trouba, Chiarot, Pardy, Harrison.  Works for me.  There are injuries every year, you need more than 6 defencemen that can play.  Aside from Morrissey incoming, I'm not sure we have anyone in the AHL even worthy of considering bringing up.  Maybe Ellerby but he is not under contract yet.

[Jacquie]

Personally I think Buff plays better when he's paired with Chiarot. 

 

I know it is a maligned stat at times but it should be noted that Enstrom did have the top +/- for Dmen and 2nd best overall on the team at +13.

[SPuDS]

It's amazing the crap that people say about Toby while people like Stuart and Pardy get praised for physical play.

Enstrom is a great hockey player and literally makes everyone he plays with better. Every other LHD we have save for maybe Chiarot makes everyone they play with worse.

We don't deserve a player like Enstrom with the way we crap on him.

Quiet players never get the love. Remember Teppo Numminen? Took a long time for people to see how valuable he was.

The Jets continue to be in transition mode. The left side could have Enstrom, Stu, Chiarot, Morrissey battling this year. Maybe Morrissey only makes it as far as the AHL. Who knows right now.

so dead on. the people whining and bitching about enstrom would have done the same about Nummenin.. too small, too steady, not flashy and no spark. the thing is you don't need to be to be an excellent defender.. defensemen like these 2 are like guards in football.. Never talked of fondly and only really brought up when mistakes are made..

Toby would land on just about every NHL team in the league and be a ln everyday defensemen.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

 

 

It's amazing the crap that people say about Toby while people like Stuart and Pardy get praised for physical play.

Enstrom is a great hockey player and literally makes everyone he plays with better. Every other LHD we have save for maybe Chiarot makes everyone they play with worse.

We don't deserve a player like Enstrom with the way we crap on him.

Quiet players never get the love. Remember Teppo Numminen? Took a long time for people to see how valuable he was.

The Jets continue to be in transition mode. The left side could have Enstrom, Stu, Chiarot, Morrissey battling this year. Maybe Morrissey only makes it as far as the AHL. Who knows right now.

so dead on. the people whining and bitching about enstrom would have done the same about Nummenin.. too small, too steady, not flashy and no spark. the thing is you don't need to be to be an excellent defender.. defensemen like these 2 are like guards in football.. Never talked of fondly and only really brought up when mistakes are made..

Toby would land on just about every NHL team in the league and be a ln everyday defensemen.

 

What? You're the only person i've ever heard say that Teppo was small. Teppo is 6'2 according to Wiki and that was about right i figure,

[sweep the leg]

so dead on. the people whining and bitching about enstrom would have done the same about Nummenin.. too small, too steady, not flashy and no spark.

When have you ever heard somebody complain that a dman is too steady?

[Floyd]

 

 

 

It's amazing the crap that people say about Toby while people like Stuart and Pardy get praised for physical play.

Enstrom is a great hockey player and literally makes everyone he plays with better. Every other LHD we have save for maybe Chiarot makes everyone they play with worse.

We don't deserve a player like Enstrom with the way we crap on him.

Quiet players never get the love. Remember Teppo Numminen? Took a long time for people to see how valuable he was.

The Jets continue to be in transition mode. The left side could have Enstrom, Stu, Chiarot, Morrissey battling this year. Maybe Morrissey only makes it as far as the AHL. Who knows right now.

so dead on. the people whining and bitching about enstrom would have done the same about Nummenin.. too small, too steady, not flashy and no spark. the thing is you don't need to be to be an excellent defender.. defensemen like these 2 are like guards in football.. Never talked of fondly and only really brought up when mistakes are made..

Toby would land on just about every NHL team in the league and be a ln everyday defensemen.

 

What? You're the only person i've ever heard say that Teppo was small. Teppo is 6'2 according to Wiki and that was about right i figure,

 

 

Teppo Numminen was worshipped in Winnipeg...  comparing him to Enstrom is a joke.

 

Numminen was 'small' because he was 6'2, 200lb.  Enstrom would have been destroyed in 1995.

[The Unknown Poster]

A lot of people under valued Teppo. Revisionist history notwithstanding.

[Floyd]

A lot of people under valued Teppo. Revisionist history notwithstanding.

 

Except none of those people were Jets fans.

[Floyd]

All these coaches and GMs that think Enstrom is awesome... check their lineup - Minn, St Louis, Chicago, Detroit, Nashville, Anaheim...

 

Then tell me that they would trade a top 4 defenceman for Enstrom.  Not a chance.

 

5'10, 180 is at best a 6th D and power play specialist... 

[Goalie]

Kimmo timmonen and Dan Boyle are both under 6 feet. Those guys are pretty good. That's just 2 players tho. Some forwards under 6 feet include Marty st louis, sid the kid, Patrick kane, Claude Giroux, Pavel Datsyuk.

Really the size thing means nothing. Toby is a very good defensive d man. He's a legit number 1 D at worst 2nd pair. Nonsense that's he's a bottom pair guy. Ridiculous to even suggest such a thing even.

Has a rough couple of playoff games playing with a bad shoulder and he sucks?

Funny cuz buff looked like crap and played much worse and he's a big guy. Size in nhl is irrelevant really. Minny ain't a huge team and they beat the bigger st louis. Size = irrelevant. If it mattered teams like Boston San Jose and LA all would have made the playoffs. They didn't tho. Smaller teams like minny Nyr tbay Montreal even all did.

Chicago? Minny? They have a couple big guys like the jets but as a team they aren't that big on average really.

The days of the broadstreet bullies are gone. Players are now smaller and more skilled. Guess cuz Toby plays well defensively and is "small" and doesn't do flashy things on the ice he sucks?

[Floyd]

I don't really want Martin St Louis playing defence for us either...

 

Sign Boyle and Timmonen if you want...  In the 'new' NHL, where you can't play dirty and can't hack, size is everything.  Find one playoff team (or even close) and tell me there is space for Enstrom in their top 4.

[Brandon]

A lot of people under valued Teppo. Revisionist history notwithstanding.

 

I'm not going to lie...  I preferred the Housley + Olausson line up when I used to play NHL 94... teppo had no respect...

[The Unknown Poster]

6th D??!! Oh man. Ridiculous.

[Ducky]

I don't really want Martin St Louis playing defence for us either...

 

Sign Boyle and Timmonen if you want...  In the 'new' NHL, where you can't play dirty and can't hack, size is everything.  Find one playoff team (or even close) and tell me there is space for Enstrom in their top 4.

Isles?

[AKAChip]

I don't really want Martin St Louis playing defence for us either...

 

Sign Boyle and Timmonen if you want...  In the 'new' NHL, where you can't play dirty and can't hack, size is everything.  Find one playoff team (or even close) and tell me there is space for Enstrom in their top 4.

 

Just to make it interesting, here is some info.

 

The LHD depth on the Habs is Markov-Emelin-Gilbert as it stands now. I love Markov as a player so as it stands now I would rank him pretty handily above Toby but I'd certainly have Toby in that top for over Emelin, who is a physical specimen but not without his glaring flaws. And for those complaining about Toby's point totals, Emelin had 14 points in 68 games. Enstrom is easily a superior player than Tom Gilbert, so I won't even start with that.

 

Chicago's LHD depth is better than the Habs as they have a Norris winner (albeit an undeserving one) in Keith on the first pair. Then you have Nik Hjalmarsson who is a very solid stay at home defenceman who again posted paltry offensive numbers (19 points in 82 games.) He's a player I would love on the Jets but not at the expense of Enstrom who is a much better offensive player at driving the play and likely negligible defensively. Timonen, on their third pair, is done as a hockey player.

 

Then you have St. Louis, who before their playoff exit was a premier team in the league. Their LHD depth is Gunnarsson, Bouwmeester and Jackman. Believe it or not, Jackman was the leading scorer of the three with all of 15 points. Bouwmeester is carrying on in name only as Blues fans are ready to see the end of him. He's still a serviceable player but Enstrom could easily play on the first pair on the Blues. Even if you argue that Bouwmeester is better (at this point, he's not), Gunnarsson and Stuart clone Jackman are nowhere in Enstrom's league.

 

To save time, I'll end with the Ducks, who have the "enviable" LHD depth of Lindholm, Despres and Stoner. Lindholm is a young player that any team would want, maybe at this point he's a superior player to Enstrom, maybe he's not. Even still, Despres is a young, physical player with upside but nowhere near the caliber of Enstrom and Stoner is frankly a joke. 

 

The bottom line is, good LHD are very hard to find. Enstrom would be a top 4 D at least on all of these teams. Enstrom had 23 points in 60 games. No, he did not tear it up but that's a pace of over 30 points, which combined with his defensive play is absolutely top 4 worthy. On essentially any team in the league. You can say all you want that good teams wouldn't want him, but it's frankly a grossly uninformed opinion. 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Imagine how Toby would do in the 80's

[HardCoreBlue]

Imagine how Toby would do in the 80's

That's actually a great point.

The one thing I've come to appreciate about Toby Enstrom is his stick work, especially in the corners, and his ability to change directions on a dime. Was never a fan but now I'm sold on him.

[Noeller]

Toby mighta been to fastest skater in th league...

[Floyd]

 

I don't really want Martin St Louis playing defence for us either...

 

Sign Boyle and Timmonen if you want...  In the 'new' NHL, where you can't play dirty and can't hack, size is everything.  Find one playoff team (or even close) and tell me there is space for Enstrom in their top 4.

 

Just to make it interesting, here is some info.

 

The LHD depth on the Habs is Markov-Emelin-Gilbert as it stands now. I love Markov as a player so as it stands now I would rank him pretty handily above Toby but I'd certainly have Toby in that top for over Emelin, who is a physical specimen but not without his glaring flaws. And for those complaining about Toby's point totals, Emelin had 14 points in 68 games. Enstrom is easily a superior player than Tom Gilbert, so I won't even start with that.

 

Chicago's LHD depth is better than the Habs as they have a Norris winner (albeit an undeserving one) in Keith on the first pair. Then you have Nik Hjalmarsson who is a very solid stay at home defenceman who again posted paltry offensive numbers (19 points in 82 games.) He's a player I would love on the Jets but not at the expense of Enstrom who is a much better offensive player at driving the play and likely negligible defensively. Timonen, on their third pair, is done as a hockey player.

 

Then you have St. Louis, who before their playoff exit was a premier team in the league. Their LHD depth is Gunnarsson, Bouwmeester and Jackman. Believe it or not, Jackman was the leading scorer of the three with all of 15 points. Bouwmeester is carrying on in name only as Blues fans are ready to see the end of him. He's still a serviceable player but Enstrom could easily play on the first pair on the Blues. Even if you argue that Bouwmeester is better (at this point, he's not), Gunnarsson and Stuart clone Jackman are nowhere in Enstrom's league.

 

To save time, I'll end with the Ducks, who have the "enviable" LHD depth of Lindholm, Despres and Stoner. Lindholm is a young player that any team would want, maybe at this point he's a superior player to Enstrom, maybe he's not. Even still, Despres is a young, physical player with upside but nowhere near the caliber of Enstrom and Stoner is frankly a joke. 

 

The bottom line is, good LHD are very hard to find. Enstrom would be a top 4 D at least on all of these teams. Enstrom had 23 points in 60 games. No, he did not tear it up but that's a pace of over 30 points, which combined with his defensive play is absolutely top 4 worthy. On essentially any team in the league. You can say all you want that good teams wouldn't want him, but it's frankly a grossly uninformed opinion. 

 

 

Nice analysis.  But the bottom line is that the top LHD on those teams are all better than Enstrom... and we'll agree to disagree on some of your assessments of second pairing D. 

 

Again, in the new NHL, stick work is really limited making it harder for smaller D to handle the front of the net.  Jet can keep relying on Enstrom but as soon as the playoffs come around, his size will be exposed again... just sayin'.

 

Interesting how you kind of argue that Bouwmeester is 'slipping' yet he's only one year older than Enstrom.

 

Pretty sure Cam Fowler is Anaheim's second LHD.  Could be wrong.

 

Enstrom will be here next year anyway... we'll find out.

[The Unknown Poster]

If Enstrom was a UFA tomorrow, he'd have half the teams in the league if not more offering him deals.  Opinions vary but facts are facts.  He is very talented.

 

I think the issue in the playoffs was that he was injured and after Game One or two, you could see him shying away from hits (which makes sense if he had a seriously injured shoulder) plus, we didnt have a lot of depth after him.  We must improve our LHD depth and will do so by Chiarot getting better and Morrissey hopefully panning out.  If Morrissey makes the team next season, it's not inconcievable that our top six d (n no specific order) end up being Enstrom, Myers, Trouba, Buff, Chiarot, Morrissey in a couple of years and that would stack up well against any D in the league.

 

ofcourse I advocate trading Buff but besides that point.