Goalie Posted July 23, 2015 Report Posted July 23, 2015 This whole thing was kind of a mess from start to finish by all parties involved, from Sheegl (god really, again this guy??) to Stuart Olson to Wan, they were all part of the problem. I can't say I'm surprised that this Sheegl guy was one of the guys in charge of BBB inc tho, that right there basically just tells me everything i need to know.
Jpan85 Posted July 23, 2015 Report Posted July 23, 2015 How can as a architect you not know that things like kegs will be moved around on the concourse
Goalie Posted July 23, 2015 Report Posted July 23, 2015 Honestly, I'm not sure i'd blame the architect for cracks in the concrete, i think that's more poor rushed workmanship than anything else. I guess the way i see this... Architect is responsible for the design of the building... Contractor is responsible for building it BBB is responsible for well, pretty much rubber stamping it. The architect doesn't build the stadium or house for that matter, the contractor does.. This would be like if your basement floor had cracks, you'd blame the architect but in reality, it's the person who poured the floors fault aka the contractor. They are all to blame here, every last one of them... more so i think the architect for a poor design (possibly david asper gets some blame here too) and the contractor aka stuart olson. BBB? hard to blame them, if anything they can be blamed for being inept really, with sheegl a part of BBB at the time, yeah i'm not surprised that they didn't notice or probably more likely didn't care about certain things at the time. FrostyWinnipeg 1
17to85 Posted July 23, 2015 Report Posted July 23, 2015 Architects are just people who wanted to be engineers but flunked the math.
Fan Boy Posted July 23, 2015 Report Posted July 23, 2015 Honestly, I'm not sure i'd blame the architect for cracks in the concrete, i think that's more poor rushed workmanship than anything else. I guess the way i see this... Architect is responsible for the design of the building... Contractor is responsible for building it BBB is responsible for well, pretty much rubber stamping it. The architect doesn't build the stadium or house for that matter, the contractor does.. This would be like if your basement floor had cracks, you'd blame the architect but in reality, it's the person who poured the floors fault aka the contractor. They are all to blame here, every last one of them... more so i think the architect for a poor design (possibly david asper gets some blame here too) and the contractor aka stuart olson. BBB? hard to blame them, if anything they can be blamed for being inept really, with sheegl a part of BBB at the time, yeah i'm not surprised that they didn't notice or probably more likely didn't care about certain things at the time. I think you missed the part where the architect said he didn't expect the use of electric forklifts only hand lifts on the concourse. That is just silly. There are a lot of beer kegs to move. My daughter worked in kitchen and they had to move carts of food though concourse dodging customers and always taking way longer than they wanted. What no thought about serving the boxes where the big bucks come from. The stadium is not just a place for playing a game it is primarily an entertainment center and the customers have to be made as comfortable as possible. Some serious screw ups in overall design.
Goalie Posted July 23, 2015 Report Posted July 23, 2015 Concrete is concrete in my opinion. That concrete ain't cracking cuz of whatever the architect says. The concrete is cracking cuz the ppl who poured it did a crappy job. It's like roads really. Eventually cracks will form but if the cracks start to show up right away it's just poor workmanship. If they happen over time, it's expected but right away pretty much means the ppl who poured it went and effed up. Poured some concrete steps at the lake recently. I did 2 of them. Brother in law did too. Mine are good. Great shape. Brother in laws are cracked and falling apart. We used the same concrete. Difference was I took my time and he rushed it. SPuDS 1
comedygeek Posted July 23, 2015 Report Posted July 23, 2015 I find it *extremely* hard to believe that the architect was asked to design a stadium that would hold no concerts, nor would be able to survive a winter. Concerts happen in stadiums. Any stadium designed without concerts in mind has a clueless architect. Winnipeg has winters. Any stadium designed to not withstand winter has a clueless architect. Even if he is being completely honest that he wasn't asked to factor these things in when designing the building, any non-clueless architect would've recognized these things and double checked. But again, I highly doubt Creswin -- who was planning to run the stadium privately (concert revenue is a big help with that) and have a winter bubble on the stadium for year-round community use -- would suggest it not be build for concerts or the winter. Basically, it really seems like everyone in this situation is an idiot. It's really a miracle we've gotten such a beautiful stadium out of this whole mess. SPuDS, sweep the leg and voodoochylde 3
WBBFanWest Posted July 23, 2015 Report Posted July 23, 2015 Even if the architect is telling the absolute truth, correct me if I'm wrong but the Grey Cup happens in November and in Manitoba, November is winter. So I guess he's assuming that there would never be a Grey Cup held in this stadium? Must be a Rider fan...
bustamente Posted July 23, 2015 Report Posted July 23, 2015 How can as a architect you not know that things like kegs will be moved around on the concourse How about one who has never designed a stadium. DR. CFL 1
Goalie Posted July 23, 2015 Report Posted July 23, 2015 Guess this is what happens when you start building or at least preparing to build a stadium b4 it's approved. Let's not forget Asper and Creswin (Wan is their guy) built a huge hole in the ground at u of m b4 he even had the money to do it. Turns out he didn't have the money. The design changed. This architect seems clueless for sure but he's only 1 of 3 maybe 4 groups who screwed the pooch really. Whats dome is done bit when the govt and Etc took over they probably should have changed architects instead of sticking with this guy holoman 1
The Unknown Poster Posted July 24, 2015 Report Posted July 24, 2015 Even if wan was asked to design a crappy buikding why would he? Sure, the money. But if he had any sense bed either have written indemnity against all this or decline. He likely made a pile of money for this but how much will he lose due to his rep being damaged. If I hire someone to rebuild my kitchen I think there is an expectation they don't just agree with everything I want - they tell me if my ideas won't work because they are the experts. Hiring wan was a mistake to begin with. I'll let Asper (who I am not against) wear that one. But the second the government inherited this they should have hired a professional stadium designer regardless of cost comedygeek, voodoochylde and DR. CFL 3
LeBird Posted July 24, 2015 Report Posted July 24, 2015 Sounds like this will use up a bunch of court time and in the end only the lawyers will have come on top. Governments are not known for being able to defend their positions that well but saying a stadium was not built for concerts might be a problem too. We like things cheap and it looks like they all obliged.
JuranBoldenRules Posted July 24, 2015 Report Posted July 24, 2015 Concrete is concrete in my opinion. That concrete ain't cracking cuz of whatever the architect says. The concrete is cracking cuz the ppl who poured it did a crappy job. It's like roads really. Eventually cracks will form but if the cracks start to show up right away it's just poor workmanship. If they happen over time, it's expected but right away pretty much means the ppl who poured it went and effed up. Poured some concrete steps at the lake recently. I did 2 of them. Brother in law did too. Mine are good. Great shape. Brother in laws are cracked and falling apart. We used the same concrete. Difference was I took my time and he rushed it. There are many factors. The worst one at IGF is drainage and where moisture collects. Concrete is poured to handle a certain capacity as well, it's not all the same. They actually had to do a bunch of cutting and re-pouring work on the concrete to get their occupancy permit before the first events at IGF because of the faulty design, not enough egress or capacity to handle eqiupment that had to be moved across it. So there was a rush to pour concrete in many areas of the building.
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