Coyotes In Trouble Again?

[Y2C]

Thanks for the link, but I've watched more than enough Glendale council meetings to last me this lifetime...

[The Unknown Poster]

This might even have been the NHL's end game. They desperately needed the Coyotes to stay in Arizona at the time. Thats why they were 15 minutes away from coming here and probably why Quebec has been buttered up. Winnipeg was a soft landing spot, if not ideal, for the Yotes or Thrashers. If the Yotes moved here, it meant Quebec probably gets the Thrashers because that team was gone one way or another.

Bettman is smart. No way he figured Glendale would eat this forever. And no way was anyone going to buy the team and eat losses forever. It was all about delaying the inevitable until a soft landing could be found, making it appear they did everything they could to save the team, and throwing up a hail mary for a TV deal that might make the team viable.

Havent heard any talk of the NHL attending tonight's council session like they did in the past. I suspect this is simple: keep the deal = keep the team, break the deal = team is gone. Black & white.

if Bettman was smart, then the team wouldn't be in Arizona in the first place

There's lots of politics but the southern expansion was going to happen and Bettman probably made it happen a lot more successfully then some might have. Bettman only serves at the pleasure of the owners. The owners wanted to expand.

[iHeart]

even if the honeymoon was short lived?. How did the Coyotes even end up in the situation in the first place? yeah we know they were bankrupt in 09 but didn't the problems happen before the bankruptcy? 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Glendale Council voted to kill Coyotes deal. Team has suggested they'll sue the city.

[The Unknown Poster]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/glendale-city-council-votes-to-terminate-arizona-coyotes-arena-deal/

[iHeart]

but now there's another waiting game, wait for the lawsuit to go through, and who knows how long it'll take, the team will probably stay in Arizona for one more year. And hopefully they get a legit buyer, It kind of makes me wonder, would Winnipeg have been in this mess if we got the yotes?

[The Unknown Poster]

Why would we be in trouble if we got the yotes? They'd be the Jets owned by true north. The only difference would be the players.

[Jacquie]

but now there's another waiting game, wait for the lawsuit to go through, and who knows how long it'll take, the team will probably stay in Arizona for one more year. And hopefully they get a legit buyer, It kind of makes me wonder, would Winnipeg have been in this mess if we got the yotes?

 

Why would the current owners sell? The team isn't going to stay in Glendale without the agreement the City continuing. They don't have to sell the team to move it.

[johnzo]

This is great news.* If the Coyotes move, that's one less expansion team the NHL can sell and one less slice out of the talent pie.

Put 'em in Quebec. I loved the QC / MTL rivalry in the old days, and Brandon is right: those old blue Nordiques unis are crazysexycool.

* Except for Coyotes fans. Sorry you guys, I know it sucks to lose a team.

[iHeart]

Why would we be in trouble if we got the yotes? They'd be the Jets owned by true north. The only difference would be the players.

 

well of course they wouldn't be in that big of a mess, considering how well that True North has handled the Jets. I'm just saying that what if the legal trouble would end up following the team wherever they end up

[The Unknown Poster]

 

Why would we be in trouble if we got the yotes? They'd be the Jets owned by true north. The only difference would be the players.

 

well of course they wouldn't be in that big of a mess, considering how well that True North has handled the Jets. I'm just saying that what if the legal trouble would end up following the team wherever they end up

 

The legal trouble is directly related to the fact the Coyotes cannot survive without major concessions from Glendale.  If the team moved to Winnipeg, none of those issues would exist as the team is profitable here.  At the time the Coyotes almost moved to Winnipeg, there was no legal agreement keeping the franchise in Arizona.  In a way it was extortion.  Glendale kept trying to push back any drop date to provide funding and it came down to a threat by the NHL to transfer X amount of dollars (I think it was $25 million) into their account by 11PM or the team was gone.  Glendale capitulated as they always did.

 

What will be interesting is, if the ownership sues Glendale over this.  One would presume the agreement is legally binding and Glendale cant simply decide they no longer wish to honour it.  But Glendale will argue the Coyotes breached by not providing financial information they were obligated to provide.  Then you've got the potential mess of the city worker who negotiated the deal immediately went to work for the ownership.  That might not be a conflict, but it certainly looks like one.

 

Or as Gary Lawless hilariously compared it to, its like the General Manager of CJOB negotiating a great, long term radio rights deal with the Blue Bombers and then immediately going to work for the Bombers.

 

I think this is exactly what the Coyotes want - a reason to leave.  Ownership will have to threaten to leave and it will be interesting to see if Glendale then backs down again (the vote was only 4-3) or if they let them go.

[iHeart]

I mean I watched the citizens pleading to keep the team here, most of it was just sad (one person didn't even talk about the coyotes at all, she was just in a huff about all those smoking places)

 

I didn't exactly hear any players screaming that they wanted out though.

 

This kind of makes me wonder if the team had been kept here all these years due to illegal funding

[The Unknown Poster]

I mean I watched the citizens pleading to keep the team here, most of it was just sad (one person didn't even talk about the coyotes at all, she was just in a huff about all those smoking places)

 

I didn't exactly hear any players screaming that they wanted out though.

 

This kind of makes me wonder if the team had been kept here all these years due to illegal funding

Not really illegal funding.  Just stupid funding.  And people willing to lose a ton of money.  Even now, Glendale pays $15 million a year which isnt even half what the Coyotes lose per season.  The "owners" werent in this to lose money.  They have an end plan.  And that will be the Coyotes somewhere else.

 

Probably the biggest mistake was leaving Phoenix.  I understand the NHL looking at the TV market and feeling it has value within a national rights deal.  But if no one is watching, what does it matter?

 

I'd suspect they play one more season in Arizona before moving to Las Vegas.  Bettman is such a lawyer.  "We have no plans to move or expand teams".  Meanwhile, an arena is being built in Las Vegas and they are selling season tickets.  lol

[iHeart]

uh huh and what are the usual ratings for Coyotes games? not counting the ones where they play the jets

 

why vegas anyways? the season ticket drive isn't really doing anything, they have sold less the amount of season tickets that the jets have and those season tickets were sold out in less than a week

[Jaxon]

I feel for the fans there, been there, done that.

 

That being said, I'm not a big fan of government money being used to subsidize highly paid professional athletes on an on-going basis.   Some help with zoning, initial capital loans etc within reason are one thing.  On-going direct subsidy to multi-million dollar contracts are another.

 

This is going to be a continuing drama, as there's lots of $$$ involved, and the time frames for this coming season are tight, very tight.   People talk of other cities, which may very well happen over the longer term, but in the shorter term, the downtown Phoenix arena where the SUNS play may be the option of choice.

[The Unknown Poster]

uh huh and what are the usual ratings for Coyotes games? not counting the ones where they play the jets

 

why vegas anyways? the season ticket drive isn't really doing anything, they have sold less the amount of season tickets that the jets have and those season tickets were sold out in less than a week

There were ratings information making the rounds back when everything that happened in Glendale was detailed here.  I cant remember the details but ratings not good.

 

Vegas is actually a city I think will be successful for the NHL.  Its a big city with tons of tourism,  And it has no pro sports.  Now one could say the other sports leagues have avoided Vegas due to the gambling connection.  But I think the NHL is smart to go in there.

 

My initial concern was that tourism was its highest in the months when there was no NHL but actually I was wrong.  Vegas tourism is steady year round (even though it is not hot in the winter). 

 

The uphill battle will be in getting a strong local following and not relying on tourists.  But from a financial stand point, they are probably on solid footing for an extended period of time in which to build that local following whereas the Coyotes werent financially strong from Day One.

 

A new arena is being built just off the strip.  The hotel/resorts will eat up many of the tickets and NHL hockey will become another event for them to market to their customers.

 

Vegas is also pretty soft landing spot for Coyotes as it requires no re-alignment.  Simply pack up the trucks and move down the highway a bit.  if there are any loyal Coyotes fans in Arizona, they can continue to go see games in Vegas.

[Brandon]

I just don't think when people go to Vegas for a weekend that they will want to waste a night at a hockey game when there is so many different options for entertainment.

[The Unknown Poster]

I just don't think when people go to Vegas for a weekend that they will want to waste a night at a hockey game when there is so many different options for entertainment.

True.  But 3 million people a month visit Vegas so they dont need too many to decide to see a hockey game.  A lot of Canadians visit Vegas.  As it is, if you book a package you often have the opportunity to throw in show tickets or get discounts.  I could see many packages marketed to Canadians including that option for hockey tickets.  You dont need to entice many of the 3 million tourists to fill an arena.

 

I also think there will be a lot of last minute ticket buyers, the people who go to Vegas without a plan and go to Tickets 4 Tonight to see what's available. 

 

But ultimately, it will be MGM etc buying a lot of tickets to give away.  Like I said, the hard sell is the local and loyal season ticket holders.  So much of Vegas are shift workers working the Thurs-Sat shifts.  The NHL will have to be creative in getting as many Vegas home games in the Sunday-Wednesday period.

 

If we compare Vegas to Phx and assume all things are equal, Vegas has the massive tourism, the huge resorts/business community to help stabilize them, at least in the short term.

[iHeart]

 

uh huh and what are the usual ratings for Coyotes games? not counting the ones where they play the jets

 

why vegas anyways? the season ticket drive isn't really doing anything, they have sold less the amount of season tickets that the jets have and those season tickets were sold out in less than a week

 

 

Vegas is actually a city I think will be successful for the NHL.  Its a big city with tons of tourism,  And it has no pro sports.  Now one could say the other sports leagues have avoided Vegas due to the gambling connection.  But I think the NHL is smart to go in there.

 

 

So the occasional boxing match doesn't count?

[The Unknown Poster]

 

 

uh huh and what are the usual ratings for Coyotes games? not counting the ones where they play the jets

 

why vegas anyways? the season ticket drive isn't really doing anything, they have sold less the amount of season tickets that the jets have and those season tickets were sold out in less than a week

 

 

Vegas is actually a city I think will be successful for the NHL.  Its a big city with tons of tourism,  And it has no pro sports.  Now one could say the other sports leagues have avoided Vegas due to the gambling connection.  But I think the NHL is smart to go in there.

 

 

So the occasional boxing match doesn't count?

 

Boxing is not a professional league sport which is what I was obviously referring too.  Neither is UFC which is home-based in Vegas.

[iHeart]

ah I see. But still even if the yotes did move to LV, they could still have legal trouble, and they could end up in the same situation all over again

[The Unknown Poster]

ah I see. But still even if the yotes did move to LV, they could still have legal trouble, and they could end up in the same situation all over again

No one can predict the future but the legal issue is related to the contract between the owners and the city of Glendale.  If the team moves to Las Vegas it would have no obligations to Glendale and thus, likely no legal issues.  I'd suspect also that a move to Vegas would involve additional ownership (the current Coyotes owners are made up of a very rich guy who is mostly a figurehead and the guys who operate the team who have no money)

[iHeart]

Hopefully someone who is willing to commit to owning this team will buy it.

[Jaxon]

Put me in the skeptical camp as far as Vegas goes.

 

IMHO, people go to Vegas to party, gamble, and go to shows that that they don't have access to at home.    If I'm going to Vegas for a 3 day weekend, if the Jets are playing, I'm looking for tickets for sure, but if its LV vs Florida, I'm just not interested.   Just because there may be a number of Canadians there doesn't mean they are willing to shell out big bucks if their team isn't playing.      I've been to Phoenix a few times, and have never been to a hockey game there.   Games have been played, but "my" team wasn't playing.

 

For it to work, you need a strong season ticket base, and you need the local support.   Personally I think the NBA would be a better fit for Vegas than hockey.

[tacklewasher]

I'm thinking Seattle would be a good choice. Sports seem to do well there and they have a decent WHL following. Not hard for that to translate to NHL. Plus they have the population and economy to support it.