Coyotes In Trouble Again?

[Atomic]

Apples and oranges competing yotes to Jets. Coyotes have a palace with all modern money makers. They simply don't have the fan support. They never have. They never will.

 

Impossible to say they will never have the fan support.  It takes time to build up a fanbase.  Look at Tampa Bay, LA, San Jose, Nashville.  Put a good team on the ice and the fans will come.  In Canada you have three or more generations of hockey fans to draw from.  It takes time to build up that kind of support.  Frankly I think all the bitching that Canadian hockey fans do about southern expansion is a little embarrassing.

[Rich]

 

Apples and oranges competing yotes to Jets. Coyotes have a palace with all modern money makers. They simply don't have the fan support. They never have. They never will.

 

Impossible to say they will never have the fan support.  It takes time to build up a fanbase.  Look at Tampa Bay, LA, San Jose, Nashville.  Put a good team on the ice and the fans will come.  In Canada you have three or more generations of hockey fans to draw from.  It takes time to build up that kind of support.  Frankly I think all the bitching that Canadian hockey fans do about southern expansion is a little embarrassing.

 

 

I don't know, when you take a hockey team out of Winnipeg to move it to a market that barely supports it, I think the fans that lost their hockey team have a right to *****.  Sure there are a lot of reasons why that happened, but it doesn't sting any less to the locals here who lost their team only to see this kind of support in its new town:

 

 

I wonder if Nordique fans ***** as much seeing as how the Colorado franchise is actually supported by their fans.  According to Forbes, the Avalanche are at least supported enough to turn an operating profit.    There are many US teams that don't.  Including the Coyotes and with Florida being the worst.

 

There is no guarantee that these markets will get support over time.  All of those cities have competition from other well established professional sports.  I don't think hockey will ever be "the thing" in those sun belt towns and really only garner attention in their communities when the team does really really well. 

 

Tampa Bay has had lots of success on the ice in the short time they've been there, including winning a Stanley Cup and having perennial all starts like Lecavlier and Stamkos in their time there yet their team had to institute a rule in the playoffs to only accept ticket sales from in state purchasers. They have also banned visiting team jerseys from certain sections of their arenas.  And reportedly, on operating income, they are the third worst, losing $11.9M per year.   So a team that is losing money decides to limit their ticket sales and discourage paying customers that support other teams to come into their building.

 

That certainly screams that they are secure in their fan base and support.

[The Unknown Poster]

They've had twenty years to build up support. They've had good teams during that time. They had the greatest player of all time as coach and owner. Theyve had well known veterans and young prospects. Nothing ever drew a crowd.

Even when they brag about selling a few tickets it's at deep deep discounts.

If the coyotes won the cup, they next season theyd sell a lot of tickets at deep discounts for about a month and be right back to nothing.

They have the benefit of a large segment of Canadian snow birds and still can't draw.

It's a failed market. And the only reason the team is there is because the city agreed to pay. And now the five year out clause is gone and the deal has two years on it. The team is gone in two years.

Vegas and Quebec get expansion and coyotes will move to an eastern city. League will have to realign again.

[Goalie]

Name an Eastern City really cuz they aren't moving a team to the GTA, not a chance in Hell, NOpe to Hamilton, nope to any of those places, there are no places in the east outside of quebec and Ontario really that want a team or another team.

 

Pretty obvious that Seattle or whoever, whenever they get that arena deal done, guaranteed you will see the Coyotes move there... The current owners could even own them there... 

 

Sure 2 teams might have just applied for expansion but bet on it that Seattle has been told that if they get an arena built, they will have an NHL team. 

[johnzo]

Glendale giving them 2 years to find a home it reads like

Doesnt that take them nicely to their out clause?

It means that the issue is settled until expansion is completed. Wonder what kind of deal the NHL cut with Glendale to protect its expansion revenues from the Coyotes?

[The Unknown Poster]

Whoops. I meant coyotes move to a western city.

[The Unknown Poster]

Realistically a move back to downtown PHX in a shared facility with the Suns might be the thing that finally saves the coyotes.

http://arizonasports.com/story/436156/coyotes-in-discussions-with-at-least-three-separate-groups-for-new-valley-arena/

GLENDALE, Ariz. — The Coyotes will keep a close eye on the upcoming Glendale elections, starting with Tuesday’s recall election for councilmember Gary Sherwood, who faces a major challenge from Ray Malnar in the Sahuaro District.

Unless there is a significant change in that city’s leadership at next year’s Mayoral and city council elections, however, the Coyotes are finished dealing with Glendale. In all probability, they are finished anyway after the city voided their 15-year arena lease and management agreement in June, and then informed the Coyotes they would be seeking their own arena manager by beginning an RFP process.

“At some point you have to make a decision that you can’t continue to talk to a wall,” Coyotes co-owner, president and CEO Anthony LeBlanc said. “You have to accept reality and look at what your alternatives are. That’s where we are right now.”

LeBlanc declined to discuss many specifics of those alternatives, but he did say discussions (not negotiations) have been ongoing for about a month with several groups on a new arena in the Valley, and he did name one well-known possibility.

“I don’t think anything has progressed to a point where it would be prudent to state what options look like but things are moving pretty quickly; in particular with a couple of these options,” he said. “The city of Phoenix has been the most vocal. They have an NBA franchise (Suns) that they are very tied to and they want to ensure there’s no hiccup in regards to that.

“We’re working as closely as we can to understand what all the options look like and there are other communities and stakeholders we are talking to.”

As the team eyes its future, Arizona Sports has learned that there are at least three significant possibilities for the Coyotes to remain in the Valley when their agreement with Glendale expires after the 2016-17 season.

Phoenix Mayor Greg Stanton and councilmember Michael Nowakowski have been pushing to bring the Coyotes downtown in a shared facility with the Suns, who are seeking a new arena.

It’s no secret the Coyotes have had discussions with Arizona State University and the City of Tempe for an East Valley location.

The Coyotes have also had some level of discussion on a Scottsdale location along the 101 corridor near Indian Bend Road with the Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian Community, but it would be premature to speculate on that location because those discussions are believed to be in their infancy, relative to the other two locations.

The Coyotes are finalizing the hiring of an arena consultant this week to help them navigate the various municipalities and possibilities they are considering. If one of those locations pans out, multiple sources have told Arizona Sports that several potential investors have expressed interest in the Coyotes, assuming they leave Glendale for another Valley location.

With key members of the IceArizona ownership group buying back some shares from majority owner Andrew Barroway, the Coyotes would likely listen to other potentially interested investors. Although one source said the team is not currently seeking additional investors.

When the Coyotes and Glendale reached agreement on a two-year deal to keep the team at Gila River Arena through 2016-17, LeBlanc said his immediate goal was to work out a longer-term deal with the city. That desire waned after Glendale opted to seek an outside arena manager, igniting the latest strife between the ill-matched partners.

LeBlanc believes that while Glendale says it wants to keep the Coyotes publicly, its actions belie that statement. He also noted that Broward County recently conducted research that found the county and BB&T Center would be worse off if the Florida Panthers left that arena in Sunrise, Florida, the Sun-Sentinel reported.

“They’ve done exhaustive research,” LeBlanc said. “They’ve come to the conclusion that it’s a significant hit to the county’s finances so they’ve gone the other way. They’re working with the team and a collection of financial experts to put together a financial package that ensures the team can stay.

“What we’re hearing from the City of Glendale and their representative at Beacon (Sports Capital Management) is not only are they not looking at something like that but they think that we as a hockey team should be subsidizing the city. It’s mind-boggling.

“Our hope is that somebody will take a look at what Broward County has done and ask a simple question: ‘Has there been an economic analysis of what happens if the Coyotes leave?’ Unfortunately, if you’re going to ignore the revenue impact of the team being here and you’re only going to look at what your expectation is on the expense side, you’re not going to make the right decisions.”

If the Coyotes move forward with one of the new arena proposals, they would need to play in a temporary home after their agreement with Glendale expires in 2017 until construction of the new arena is complete. Talking Stick Resort Arena is the most logical option.

[rebusrankin]

Why do people take Leblanc seriously? Those ice edge guys are a joke.

[Ducky]

Almost as big a joke as keeping the team in AZ.

[bustamente]

These guys are a complete joke and the city of Glendale are a fools for having this charade go on for so long. They have a .500 team at the moment with some young and exciting players and still can't  fill the building with some of the cheapest tickets in the NHL. 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

I had heard about this couple weeks ago I think the Freep had an article. Things were good it said, they just needed new place to play and I was like are you kidding me?!?! They are walking a thin line as it is and they want to move?

 

Oh well, best of luck. Phoenix strange city if u never been there, no tall buildings.

[The Unknown Poster]

Not much of a choice in moving. Glendale broke the lease. They had to agree on a lease deal for this season or the coyotes were homeless.

Playing in downtown PHX would be a lot better for them. It would hve to be a great deal if it's a shared situation with the Suns because the coyotes don't generate enough revenue on their own to make it work without non-hockey revenue. But it's a life line.

[Ducky]

Not much of a choice in moving. Glendale broke the lease. They had to agree on a lease deal for this season or the coyotes were homeless.

Playing in downtown Seattle or Quebec would be a lot better for them. It would hve to be a great deal if it's a shared situation with the Suns because the coyotes don't generate enough revenue on their own to make it work without non-hockey revenue. But it's a life line.

fyp

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Do the Suns need a new place though?

[Goalie]

No arena in Seattle and Quebec is willing to pay a billion dollars for an expansion team.

[Ducky]

not yet.

[Goalie]

Seattle probably s likely place for relocation but not sure it's Arizona moving there. Maybe an eastern based team instead

[bustamente]

Before they do anything in terms of expansion they have a trouble spots that they have to look at. Arizona is playing the if you build us an new arena game for the second time, people can't possibly be that stupid in the Phoenix area. Carolina has major problems, Islanders have moved into a basketball arena because they played chicken and lost, Florida only draws oppositions fans and not that many to boot, the Devils also have serious problems, and now Columbus with there losing are having big sections of there arena bare. Expansion might have to wait. 

[The Unknown Poster]

Sportsnet:

With the City of Glendale backing out of the long-term agreement with the team to run the arena, the ownership group has been forced to look elsewhere in the Greater Phoenix area to build an arena.

Stories are certainly circulating about potential opportunities in downtown Phoenix (across from the baseball stadium), in Scottsdale and near the Arizona State University campus in Tempe.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Sportsnet:

With the City of Glendale backing out of the long-term agreement with the team to run the arena, the ownership group has been forced to look elsewhere in the Greater Phoenix area to build an arena.

Stories are certainly circulating about potential opportunities in downtown Phoenix (across from the baseball stadium), in Scottsdale and near the Arizona State University campus in Tempe.

Good luck getting the Suns involved.

[Ducky]

Move them already and put it to bed...

 

The Quebec (Las Vegas?) Coyotes?

[Goalie]

Lol. Quebec City and Las Vegas are willing to pay like 500 million each for expansion teams. Owners don't have to share that with the players. Arizona will stay in Arizona. The sooner people accept that the better. If not... maybe you relocate them to Seattle. However there are a few eastern teams struggling to draw fans too... NYI Carolina and Florida being obvious ones. In my opinion it's more likely one of those 3 move to a Seattle or Portland OR some western American city. Then you actually have equal teams in both conferences

[Ducky]

You're probably right about Quebec/Las Vegas but not sure the Dogs will stay where they are. Definitely right about needing to even out the West/East numbers.

[The Unknown Poster]

Sad thing is Yotes will probably be fine if they move to a better part of the state. Not great but passable. And I'm ok with tjat. In a perfect world you have 30(or 32) super successful franchises but that will never happen so you just hope for as few disasters as possible.